Brian Baldinger's breakdown of Sam Darnold and Jamal Adams.

[Villain The Foe]

 

[slats]

5 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

Ill ask again-If he isnt an elite athlete why was he so highly touted?  He was a consensus top 5 pick and everybody was surprised he fell to the Jets.  Adams self promotion cant be the answer.  I get that QBs get over drafted for their value but not safeties

I guess we can re visit this at the end of the season and see if the first game was a fluke or the beginning of his stardom

I don't know -I've never pretended to be some draft expert- but that's what happened. 

We can revisit this all you like. I don't dislike the kid, I just dislike a safety who's slightly below average athletically being drafted #6 overall. But he's a Jet now and I root for him on Sundays. Or Mondays. Or Thursdays. 

 

[Doggin94it]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

The point most of us are making is just average CB > just average safety.

And that Very Good CB > Very Good Safety and Elite CB > Elite Safety

And also, that the difference between an Elite (or Very Good) CB and an Average CB is greater than the difference between an Elite (or Very Good) S and an Average S.  Value above replacement is critical.

[Defense Wins Championships]

Some of you are so unaware that you've became absolutely clueless. 

Jamal Adams was so pissed off after his NFL combine results that not even one month later, during his LSU Pro-Day; he ran a 4.33 40 and solidified himself while heading into the NFL draft. 

4.33!!

Still want to criticize him for his speed? lol. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

 

[#27TheDominator]

14 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Some of you are so unaware that you've became absolutely clueless. 

Jamal Adams was so pissed off after his NFL combine results that not even one month later, during his LSU Pro-Day; he ran a 4.33 40 and solidified himself while heading into the NFL draft. 

4.33!!

Still want to criticize him for his speed? lol. 

 

I don't give a **** what Ferris Bueller timed him at, or some friend in the stands that tweeted it 25 seconds after it happened. 

Adams was timed officially at 4.45 at LSU's pro day, per NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt.

Yes.  I still want to criticize his athleticism.  Still happy enough with him as a player, but please don't act like he is a fast safety. 

[Scoop24]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

I don't give a **** what Ferris Bueller timed him at, or some friend in the stands that tweeted it 25 seconds after it happened. 

Adams was timed officially at 4.45 at LSU's pro day, per NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt.

Bro it’s pretty much teams timing him .. that’s why it’s all over place. At the very least they where all faster than that 4.5 he ran at the combine .  they way your selling it is interesting tho . 

[sec101row23]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The point most of us are making is just average CB > just average safety.

Well that doesn’t mean that Adams has to be a Hall of famer to justify his draft position.  Kind of an irrelevant argument.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't give a **** what Ferris Bueller timed him at, or some friend in the stands that tweeted it 25 seconds after it happened. 

Adams was timed officially at 4.45 at LSU's pro day, per NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt.

Yes.  I still want to criticize his athleticism.  Still happy enough with him as a player, but please don't act like he is a fast safety. 

The best safety in the NFL is Harrison Smith and he ran a 4.57/40 at the combine. Waiting for you to to criticize his athleticism and tell me that Vernon Gholston will be great because he was an elite athlete. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't give a **** what Ferris Bueller timed him at, or some friend in the stands that tweeted it 25 seconds after it happened. 

Adams was timed officially at 4.45 at LSU's pro day, per NFL.com senior analyst Gil Brandt.

Yes.  I still want to criticize his athleticism.  Still happy enough with him as a player, but please don't act like he is a fast safety. 

If people were to ever go to an SEC/LSU Football forum and mock Jamal Adams as a "box Safety" or criticize his athleticism (as you just did) you all would be LAUGHED OFF THEIR FORUMS. 

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

I'm saying that:

a) you're wrong to say that, empirically, no S could ever justify being a top 10 pick; but

b) right to say that the odds against it are long, which is sufficient reason not to make that pick

I never said that no safety could ever justify being drafted top ten. I said that evidence shows that position is not worthy of being drafted top ten. You're basically arguing a point I never made, straw man. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

4 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The best safety in the NFL is Harrison Smith and he ran a 4.57/40 at the combine. Waiting for you to to criticize his athleticism and tell me that Vernon Gholston will be great because he was an elite athlete. 

Exactly.

And Jerry Rice ran a super slow 40 but was FAST on Sunday's. 

Pundits.

[BCJet]

I love it - the Anti-Adams brigade cant spout out non-sense fast enough

"Adams is a box safety, doenst have any interceptions, cant cover TEs, terrible pick."

Adams has a pick, makes tackles behind the line, shows great coverage and excellent change of direction at the goal line followed with a jarring hit to stop a TD

Anti Adams crew - well hes not a good enough athlete to be taken so high

What do you all want from him, to be a great cover safety and a great box safety?  Well guess what, that's his actual ceiling and why he was picked at 6, because he can cover and play at the LOS, the guys listed like John Johnson are good, but simply do not do both of the things that Adams does.  Let the kid grow in his second season before you say hes a bad pick.

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I just want to clarify that my issue is with Mac’s draft philosophy and maximizing resources and value, not the players themselves. We can’t turn back time and can only root like hell for who we did in fact draft. If they develop to be above average starters at this point, then that’s great and its less holes to fill. I can live with that after our horrible recent draft history.

I still have valid concerns about Mac’s drafting though and how he values positions. Maybe his philosophy shifts now that he filled a lot of holes with “safe” picks and FA and now he can focus on the O-line/Pass rush? Idk but time will tell. 

When you talk about his draft philosophy what exactly are you referring to?

The way I understand it is that Mac has made 2 philosophical statements regarding the draft.

1.  That a 3-4 team should continually draft OLBs (he referenced pittsburgh) to keep the pipeline stocked. He has done this with Donahue, Jenkins, and Mauldin 

2.  That he favors developing middle round linemen 

Now with respect to 1, its a good philosophy, Mac just hasnt hit on those positions.  With respect to 2, he did this with Shell, but for the most part appears to favor FA for Oline but at the same time was active in attempting to trade up for Tunsil.

My point is, you can have a philosophy, which he does, but there will always be outliers.  The board consensus that he ignores edge and OT, doesnt take into account that he has not passed on an elite edge rusher.  Has he missed on guys like Danielle Hunter, of course, so did the whole league, otherwise he wouldnt have fallen to the 40s.  Mac can prefer developing mid round lineman but at the same time, take an LT with our first rounder next year if thats the BPA and/or is close to the BPA and fills a need.  Or he can routinely try to find an OLB gem in the 3/4th area and at the same time trade up for Bosa if he falls in 2019.  A philosophy and the actual draft are not mutually exclusive.

 

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Bro it’s pretty much teams timing him .. that’s why it’s all over place. At the very least they where all faster than that 4.5 he ran at the combine .  they way your selling it is interesting tho . 

What am I selling?  Pro day 40's are notoriously inaccurate.  It is a bunch of dudes with stopwatches.  The combine is electronically timed which is traditionally considered .05 slower.  The pro=day video was posted by LSU Tiger TV.  Which do you trust more for an accurate time, LSU Tiger TV or Gil Brandt's "official" time?  It is possible that it was 4.40 and Brandt added .05 for hand timing. He didn't run 4.5 at the combine.  He ran 4.56.

8 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The best safety in the NFL is Harrison Smith and he ran a 4.57/40 at the combine. Waiting for you to to criticize his athleticism and tell me that Vernon Gholston will be great because he was an elite athlete. 

What the **** is wrong with you people?  Did I say he couldnt' be good?  That anybody that times better sis a better player?  Smith may be the best safety, but he is not an "elite athlete."  I am responding to a guy who said he was an elite athlete.  When shown he wasn't the argument morphed to "then why'd he get drafted at 6? "

4 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

If people were to ever go to an SEC/LSU Football forum and mock Jamal Adams as a "box Safety" or criticize his athleticism (as you just did) you all would be LAUGHED OFF THEIR FORUMS. 

You mean they would laugh if I said that Josh Jones is a better athlete?  I mean, it's a fact, but they can laugh if they like. It doesn't mean JOnes is a better safety, but it does relate to ceiling.  IMO the biggest advantage that Adams (like Williams) has is a very high floor. 

2 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Exactly.

And Jerry Rice ran a super slow 40 but was FAST on Sunday's. 

Pundits.

Jerry Rice's 40 was hand-timed.  It also wasn't 4.71.  Some idiot said that and it stuck. Brandt said 4.55.  When he got drafted in the USFL they said he ran 4.45.  I read this bullshjt all the time.  Rice came out of a small school in the dark ages.  People didn't know how to run the 40. Adams and these guys at the combine have been prepping for that 40 for ages.  Oh, Larry Fitzgerald didn'r run slow either.  You will see it reported everywhere that he ran 4.63 at the combine.  People won't laugh at you, they will say "YEAH! The 40 means sh*t!" Only issue is, he didn't run at the combine.  He actually ran a 4.47 at his pro day.

[Defense Wins Championships]

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheFBVine/status/859519865304088576/video/1

Goes sideline to sideline and Hawks down Lamar Jackson during the bowl game. 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Watch the play again .. look at the fake Darnold makes with his body that draws the safety in . Which was just enough to free up Robby . He wasn’t late on the throw . 

The fake happened almost a full second before the throw 

[Creepy Lurker]

2 hours ago, DMan77 said:

I think what I hate the most about the Adam's and/or Maye hate is that some people here NEED to be right so badly about them being bad picks that they almost hope they preform poorly.

You can just feel the excitement in some people's posts when they get to jump on after a bad play and attack Adams or Maye or some other pick they didn't agree with. They're giddy with excitement and happy to be cynical.

It's so clear to me that people want to be able to say "I told you so" one way or another. Sometimes it feels more so than actually seeing the team succeed. 

I really think rooting against you own players is poor fandom. If I’m ever skeptical about something on this team, I’d love to be wrong and have someone tell me “I told ya so” if it meant that player was doing well for us or if our coach got better etc. I’d eat crow all day long under those circumstances. 

[CTM]

29 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I love it - the Anti-Adams brigade cant spout out non-sense fast enough

"Adams is a box safety, doenst have any interceptions, cant cover TEs, terrible pick."

Adams has a pick, makes tackles behind the line, shows great coverage and excellent change of direction at the goal line followed with a jarring hit to stop a TD

Anti Adams crew - well hes not a good enough athlete to be taken so high

What do you all want from him, to be a great cover safety and a great box safety?  Well guess what, that's his actual ceiling and why he was picked at 6, because he can cover and play at the LOS, the guys listed like John Johnson are good, but simply do not do both of the things that Adams does.  Let the kid grow in his second season before you say hes a bad pick.

1 game doesnt change that hes a mediocre athlete at a low value position. 

Everyone here hopes games like this become the norm rather than the exception, however we need more than a single games evidence to disprove the idea that mediocre athletes at low value positions shouldn't be drafted at 1.6 

[Villain The Foe]

I just feels different!

[Barry McCockinner]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

I'm starting to really like Adams. He seems like a true leader. Could this defense be the real deal? Easy to get excited after the way they played week 1. 

[Creepy Lurker]

31 minutes ago, BCJet said:

When you talk about his draft philosophy what exactly are you referring to?

The way I understand it is that Mac has made 2 philosophical statements regarding the draft.

1.  That a 3-4 team should continually draft OLBs (he referenced pittsburgh) to keep the pipeline stocked. He has done this with Donahue, Jenkins, and Mauldin 

2.  That he favors developing middle round linemen 

Now with respect to 1, its a good philosophy, Mac just hasnt hit on those positions.  With respect to 2, he did this with Shell, but for the most part appears to favor FA for Oline but at the same time was active in attempting to trade up for Tunsil.

My point is, you can have a philosophy, which he does, but there will always be outliers.  The board consensus that he ignores edge and OT, doesnt take into account that he has not passed on an elite edge rusher.  Has he missed on guys like Danielle Hunter, of course, so did the whole league, otherwise he wouldnt have fallen to the 40s.  Mac can prefer developing mid round lineman but at the same time, take an LT with our first rounder next year if thats the BPA and/or is close to the BPA and fills a need.  Or he can routinely try to find an OLB gem in the 3/4th area and at the same time trade up for Bosa if he falls in 2019.  A philosophy and the actual draft are not mutually exclusive.

 

I like your points that Mac said about drafting OLBs like Pittsburgh and developmental mid-round O-line prospects. That’s great and all but....

My issue with his philosophy, and I hate to sound like a broken record, is that he uses premium draft picks to fill positions that can be filled via FA and affordable too. I completely disagree with that use of resources.

Also, 1st round picks are pretty much thought to be starters so if you are drafting someone knowing that they will be a starter, it makes sense to take advantage of an affordable rookie deal and a chance at hitting gold at a premium position and type of player that would never hit FA. Non-impact players like safety, MLB, D-line in a 3-4, can always be found or signed without using a valuable draft pick.

I do not care how well Adams/Lee/Williams turn out(I’m hard rooting for all 3) because that’s not the point. My issue is with the philosophy of drafting non impact positions with premium picks. It just doesn’t make sense to me at all. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm starting to really like Adams. He seems like a true leader. 

He is. He's a natural born leader at that. 

Jamal Adams was one of the only Jet player's to have his head coaches back while Todd Bowles was on an NFL hot seat last year and stuck up for and stood up against the N.Y media while protecting his head coach @ the same time. He's also one of our only players to call out our losing locker room mentality once he arrived a Jet. 

Sheep will follow the popular trend however leaders will lead a group of men. And Jamal Adams is our Defense leader and one who's embraced his rookie QB since the very moment Sam Darnold was drafted. 

[nico002]

Jamal Adams is a STUD

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Stephan A Smith is unwatchable. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

23 minutes ago, CTM said:

1 game doesnt change that hes a mediocre athlete at a low value position. 

Everyone here hopes games like this become the norm rather than the exception, however we need more than a single games evidence to disprove the idea that mediocre athletes at low value positions shouldn't be drafted at 1.6 

What are you talking about in regards to "one game"?

The kid as only a rookie started all 16 games and recorded 82 tackles, 6 passes defended, 2.0 sacks, 2 fumble recoveries and 1 forced fumble. 

While also being selected to the NFL's All-Rookie team. 

Finished top 5 in votes for Defensive Rookie of the Year and also finished top 10 in votes for overall Rookie of the Year award honors. 

P.S: There were 256 played drafted and Jamal Adams ranked 9th in overall Rookie of the Year votes and received more votes than that of 99.6% of player's drafted.

Anyone who feels that Jamal Adams wasn't worthy of a top 1-3 draft selection and especially as a 6th overall steal does not know Football. 

[Jethead]

2 hours ago, slats said:

I wasn't talking about Ed Reed. 

Adams is a smart player with a lot of production and no slouch at self-promotion, but not an elite athlete for his position. He's a good football player -maybe even very good- but not a #6 overall football player. He's a slightly below average athlete who plays a lower valued position. 

It's not his fault that the Jets drafted him so high, and I don't take it out on the kid. In fact, I was very happy to see him get off the interception schneid and quiet his critics - including me. But a player of his athletic ability at his position should be found in the middle or later rounds of the draft. 

I disagree. Adams is the leader of what will soon be the best defense in the AFC. We are lucky to have him. The ultimate differentiator of greatness is between the ears. He and Sam are the goods but wait and see who the informal kingpin is. My money's on Adams. His drive is in the 100th percentile.

[Villain The Foe]

 

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Jamal Adams was so pissed off after his NFL combine results that not even one month later, during his LSU Pro-Day; he ran a 4.33 40 and solidified himself while heading into the NFL draft. 

I am really enjoying the idea that Adams is some kind of Flash/Hulk hybrid who can make himself faster when he's angry.

[Villain The Foe]

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

I've witnessed so much criticism from a few Jet fans surrounding Jamal Adams both the Football player and team leader; so I thought it would be an awesome idea to take 5 minutes out of my day and create an LSU account in order to judge Jamal Adams (An All-Rookie team selection) coming from knowledgeable LSU & SEC fans alike.

Contrary to popular belief but their overall assessment(s) of Jamal Adams are much different than in comparison to what a few of these Jamal Adams' pundits have had to say since dating back to day one. 

I also thought it would be an awesome idea for all of us Jet fans (who truly know just how great this kid really is) to become validated by longtine LSU Football fans who not only know first hand but also understand the makings of Jamal Adams way more than a bunch of Jet critic's ever could. 

See for yourselves. 

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/lsu-sports/from-an-ny-jets-fan-as-lsu-alumni-your-overall-thoughts-on-jamal-adams/78699133/

PS: You Jamal Adams skeptic(s) should feel ashamed of yourselves while reading those LSU Tiger fans gush over the thought of our very own #33. 

[dbatesman]

29 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

P.S: There were 256 played drafted and Jamal Adams ranked 9th in overall Rookie of the Year votes and received more votes than that of 99.6% of player's drafted.

holy ******* hell

[slimjasi]

I like Adams and have been defending him since he was drafted, but . . . 

Isn't your post about as relevant as Gator fans gushing over Tim Tebow? 

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I like Adams and have been defending him since he was drafted, but . . . 

Isn't your post about as relevant as Gator fans gushing over Tim Tebow? 

Nope. LSU faithful understand great defensive play more than FL Gator fans could ever grasp QB play.

Apples to Oranges.

Those guys over there really know what they're talking about when it comes to defense within the SEC. 

[peebag]

Please stop, Mr. Bluntz.