OL

[C Mart]

Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline)

9/17/18, 6:59 PM

Also- looking for a super sleeper at left tackle? SDSU has their best prospect since Kyle Turley draftanalyst.com/riser-sliders-… twitter.com/DraftAnalyst1/…

Risers

Tyler Roemer/T/San Diego State:  If there’s a super sleeper at the tackle position it’s Roemer, the redshirt sophomore who’s held down the Aztecs starting job the past two seasons.  Roemer is technically sound, athletic and effective at the line of scrimmage or blocking in motion.  He’s terrific in pass protection and does a great job run blocking, especially on the second level.  The Aztecs rushed for 311 yards during the victory over Arizona State, much of it off left tackle and behind Roemer.  Though he needs to improve his finishing strength I presently grade Roemer as a third round prospect and feel confident in saying he’ll be the best offensive tackle prospect to come out of SDSU since Kyle Turley.

[RobR]

2 hours ago, C Mart said:

Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline)

9/17/18, 6:59 PM

Also- looking for a super sleeper at left tackle? SDSU has their best prospect since Kyle Turley draftanalyst.com/riser-sliders-… twitter.com/DraftAnalyst1/…

Risers

Tyler Roemer/T/San Diego State:  If there’s a super sleeper at the tackle position it’s Roemer, the redshirt sophomore who’s held down the Aztecs starting job the past two seasons.  Roemer is technically sound, athletic and effective at the line of scrimmage or blocking in motion.  He’s terrific in pass protection and does a great job run blocking, especially on the second level.  The Aztecs rushed for 311 yards during the victory over Arizona State, much of it off left tackle and behind Roemer.  Though he needs to improve his finishing strength I presently grade Roemer as a third round prospect and feel confident in saying he’ll be the best offensive tackle prospect to come out of SDSU since Kyle Turley.

Nice find, what do you personally think of the player?

[C Mart]

6 minutes ago, RobR said:

Nice find, what do you personally think of the player?

Haven’t seen him. Just throwing out what others are saying. Revisit it around draft time to see where these guys are projected. 

[sec101row23]

18 hours ago, RobR said:

Nice find, what do you personally think of the player?

I just saw some highlights of that game and Roemer is absolutely mauling people in the run game.  Looks like he could fit a zone blocking scheme.  

[RobR]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I just saw some highlights of that game and Roemer is absolutely mauling people in the run game.  Looks like he could fit a zone blocking scheme.  

As usual I'll be looking hard at the Olineman once the season is over, specifically the Tackles.

[Lith]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

As usual I'll be looking hard at the Olineman once the season is over, specifically the Tackles.

No doubt in my mind that you would.  The question is will Macc?

[RobR]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

No doubt in my mind that you would.  The question is will Macc?

At this point he has no choice if he wants to keep his job. Beachum is falling off the face of the planet with his play and Carp is not meant for this system. I think we're Ok from Center to RT but the biggest concern is we have nothing in the pipeline. Nothing!!!

As many of you know I loved Garcia coming out so hopefully he can get healthy and turn into something, but it's not something I'm counting on with his injury/illness. 

We're also coming to the point of starting rookies at some of the most important positions on the Oline which is a recipe for disaster and that is solely on the GM for neglecting the position forever. Our entire draft next year should be based on providing Sam with protection and weapons......edge rusher is secondary IMO. 

[Thai Jet]

On 9/17/2018 at 9:53 PM, C Mart said:

Haven’t seen him. Just throwing out what others are saying. Revisit it around draft time to see where these guys are projected. 

Thanks ! I'll have to make a point to catch a SDS game some Saturday nite. Did a lot of that with Josh Allen last year. Local FIOS actually had 15 games on at 10:30 pm last Sat. nite.

[#27TheDominator]

If Roemer is a red-shirt sophomore, why would he come out?  I would assume a 3rd round grade that needs to "improve his finishing strength" is more likely to stay in school. 

[RobR]

7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

If Roemer is a red-shirt sophomore, why would he come out?  I would assume a 3rd round grade that needs to "improve his finishing strength" is more likely to stay in school. 

It's early and nobody knows if he will declare, all depends on how the season plays out and where he is projected at the end of the process.

[Larz]

There was an article last draft about the poor overall quality of recent oline draft classes and the time it takes to develop them causing a huge uptick in oline free agent costs as teams shy away from investing 1st round resources in oline 

I hope Darnold develops to the point that the Jets look like they have a future and can attract good free agents 

This draft is supposed to be deep in pass rushers and that could be the 1st round pick. 

I also would be ok with TE as the pick Sam desperately needs someone to work the middle for him 

[RobR]

8 hours ago, Larz said:

There was an article last draft about the poor overall quality of recent oline draft classes and the time it takes to develop them causing a huge uptick in oline free agent costs as teams shy away from investing 1st round resources in oline 

I hope Darnold develops to the point that the Jets look like they have a future and can attract good free agents 

This draft is supposed to be deep in pass rushers and that could be the 1st round pick. 

I also would be ok with TE as the pick Sam desperately needs someone to work the middle for him 

The problem with Oline prospects recently is because of the invent, or should I say merge with these read option offenses in college. Most of the lineman are in a two point stance the majority of the time, couple that with the new CBA agreement that strictly controls full contact practices and it's no wonder why it's harder too find them and develop them. Our biggest problem is we don't even try to draft them.

 

[maury77]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:31 PM, RobR said:

The problem with Oline prospects recently is because of the invent, or should I say merge with these read option offenses in college. Most of the lineman are in a two point stance the majority of the time, couple that with the new CBA agreement that strictly controls full contact practices and it's no wonder why it's harder too find them and develop them. Our biggest problem is we don't even try to draft them.

 

Rob, I always defer to you on your OL analysis. Moving forward, do you think the Jets can get by with Long, Winters and Shell on the right side or do you think the entire OL needs to be remade (I know you aren't high on Beachum and Carpenter  in this system). 

[RobR]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Rob, I always defer to you on your OL analysis. Moving forward, do you think the Jets can get by with Long, Winters and Shell on the right side or do you think the entire OL needs to be remade (I know you aren't high on Beachum and Carpenter  in this system). 

I'm more than fine with Long and Winters. Shell has been improving and is doing some things I didn't think he was capable of....which is good. We need a LT in the worst way. 

[sec101row23]

 

In a very early top 10 mock, Tony has the Jets taking OT Greg Little, but also has Wisconsin’s OT David Edwards going in the top 10.  

[Paradis]

The problem with Oline prospects recently is because of the invent, or should I say merge with these read option offenses in college. Most of the lineman are in a two point stance the majority of the time, couple that with the new CBA agreement that strictly controls full contact practices and it's no wonder why it's harder too find them and develop them. Our biggest problem is we don't even try to draft them.

 

 

I know you’re not a fan of this mentality, but we’re gonna have to “buy” an Oline next year. There’s no way with a 1st and 3rd round picks, were going to suddenly fix that situation. And we risk everything hoping the rookies can keep Sam in one piece. Maniacal approach to be honest. That window closed when we failed to draft any Olinemen of worth in 2017/2018.. I mean Jesus, could we have at least brought in guys like Harrison?? He’s the staring LT now for CLE! Rrrggghh

 

*ahem*

 

Anyway, yea. As difficult as LT as are to come by, I’d still say pure pass rushers are harder. If we’re picking top 10, guys like Bosa or Allen trump any LT I’ve watched yet.

 

Buy what you can’t draft. Draft what you can’t buy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Untouchable]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

 

In a very early top 10 mock, Tony has the Jets taking OT Greg Little, but also has Wisconsin’s OT David Edwards going in the top 10.  

Little and Jonah Williams are my Top 2 guys in the early going.

With the glut of cash the Jets will have and only 2-3 of our own guys worth re-signing, there’s no reason the Jets shouldn’t be able to fortify the passrush in FA. Guys like Barr, Fowler, Barrett and Ray will probably all end up hitting the market. And I’d look into signing two of them. A combo of Barr and Fowler coupled with guys like Jenkins and Copeland rotating in should go a long way towards pressuring the QB.

The early rounds of the draft HAVE to be dedicated to the OL and receiving corps IMO.

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Little and Jonah Williams are my Top 2 guys in the early going.

With the glut of cash the Jets will have and only 2-3 of our own guys worth re-signing, there’s no reason the Jets shouldn’t be able to fortify the passrush in FA. Guys like Barr, Fowler, Barrett and Ray will probably all end up hitting the market. And I’d look into signing two of them. A combo of Barr and Fowler coupled with guys like Jenkins and Copeland rotating in should go a long way towards pressuring the QB.

The early rounds of the draft HAVE to be dedicated to the OL and receiving corps IMO.

I agree.  100%.  I get that pass rush is a huge need, but nothing should be a higher priority right now than protecting Sam and surrounding him with weapons.  If my choices are between another year of an anemic pass rush or a below average OL, I will live with the pass rush issues.  Ideal world, we solve for pass rush through FA and then top 3 picks are all pieces to make Sam better.  OL, WR, RB should be the focus with those 3 picks, which still should not preclude is from upgrading these positions through FA also.

[Patriot Killa]

I want Nick Bosa or Ed Oliver...if those two aren’t there then we can go LT all day.

I’m taking BPA for OLB or LT strictly.

[maury77]

17 hours ago, Lith said:

I agree.  100%.  I get that pass rush is a huge need, but nothing should be a higher priority right now than protecting Sam and surrounding him with weapons.  If my choices are between another year of an anemic pass rush or a below average OL, I will live with the pass rush issues.  Ideal world, we solve for pass rush through FA and then top 3 picks are all pieces to make Sam better.  OL, WR, RB should be the focus with those 3 picks, which still should not preclude is from upgrading these positions through FA also.

Next year only? The next couple of seasons need to be dedicated to spending premium picks on the offense. The last offensive player the Jets picked in the first round that was not a USC QB is Santana f*cking Moss. 

The Jets really stepped in sh!t by drafting Darnold and nothing I have seen so far has changed my mind.

[maury77]

8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I want Nick Bosa or Ed Oliver...if those two aren’t there then we can go LT all day.

I’m taking BPA for OLB or LT strictly.

Ed Oliver is a great player, but I'm not using another top 10 pick on a guy that is going to play 5 technique in our defense. Bosa, yes, but Oliver should be on a 4-3 team. 

[derp]

I think it's going to be hard to buy an OL this offseason. Left tackles rarely just hit the market. Possible that the Jets are able to draft one, but I don't see that need getting filled in FA. Would be all over signing an elite guard to replace Carpenter though. Unless they thought he wasn't a scheme fit they really should have gone after Norwell.

[Lith]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Next year only? The next couple of seasons need to be dedicated to spending premium picks on the offense. The last offensive player the Jets picked in the first round that was not a USC QB is Santana f*cking Moss. 

The Jets really stepped in sh!t by drafting Darnold and nothing I have seen so far has changed my mind.

Absolutely, I agree.  It is just pathetic and borderline criminal to send a rookie out there behind this OL and with these offensive weapons.  Can anyone other than Q get separation on a regular basis.  I just hope the guy making the picks and signing the free agents next offseason is a different guy than the one that has largely ignored the O for the last 4 seasons.

[Patriot Killa]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Ed Oliver is a great player, but I'm not using another top 10 pick on a guy that is going to play 5 technique in our defense. Bosa, yes, but Oliver should be on a 4-3 team. 

Had no clue he’d even play 5 Tech in the 3-4.

If so, you are definitely right. Nick Bosa all day.

[#27TheDominator]

21 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Little and Jonah Williams are my Top 2 guys in the early going.

With the glut of cash the Jets will have and only 2-3 of our own guys worth re-signing, there’s no reason the Jets shouldn’t be able to fortify the passrush in FA. Guys like Barr, Fowler, Barrett and Ray will probably all end up hitting the market. And I’d look into signing two of them. A combo of Barr and Fowler coupled with guys like Jenkins and Copeland rotating in should go a long way towards pressuring the QB.

The early rounds of the draft HAVE to be dedicated to the OL and receiving corps IMO.

Ray average annual sacks 4.333, Barr 2.625, Fowler 6, Problem solved. 

[Untouchable]

30 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Ray average annual sacks 4.333, Barr 2.625, Fowler 6, Problem solved. 

Barr has been playing out of position as a strong side LB in Minnesota’s 4-3 scheme his entire pro career. And he’s still managed to be a pro-bowl player. He absolutely has the measurables and skill set to be a productive 3-4 OLB who can get after the QB.

Ray is more of a rotational guy and out of the 4 players I listed, he’d be the one I’d want the least.

So what if Fowler averages around 6 sacks a year? He’s extremely talented and still young. I don’t think he’ll ever live up to his draft position but he’s a solid cog if he can stay healthy and keep his nose clean.

Bottom line, you sure as hell have a better chance of improving the passrush through FA than you do the OL.

[#27TheDominator]

41 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Barr has been playing out of position as a strong side LB in Minnesota’s 4-3 scheme his entire pro career. And he’s still managed to be a pro-bowl player. He absolutely has the measurables and skill set to be a productive 3-4 OLB who can get after the QB.

Ray is more of a rotational guy and out of the 4 players I listed, he’d be the one I’d want the least.

So what if Fowler averages around 6 sacks a year? He’s extremely talented and still young. I don’t think he’ll ever live up to his draft position but he’s a solid cog if he can stay healthy and keep his nose clean.

Bottom line, you sure as hell have a better chance of improving the passrush through FA than you do the OL.

All the talk about McVay and Goff's improvement, I would argue that overpaying for a 36 year old LT has had more to do with the Rams success.  I agree that it will come down to the individual players available.  OTOH, Fowler is not exactly a complete player and if I had a penny for every player with the measurables and skill-set to be a productive 3-4 OLB who can get after the QB that actually can't I'd be rich. 

 

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Barrett

Barrett is another guy averaging Jordan Jenkins level sacks over the course of his career.  Upgrades are nice, but we would still be whining about pressure. 

[RobR]

On 10/3/2018 at 10:37 AM, Paradis said:

 

I know you’re not a fan of this mentality, but we’re gonna have to “buy” an Oline next year. There’s no way with a 1st and 3rd round picks, were going to suddenly fix that situation. And we risk everything hoping the rookies can keep Sam in one piece. Maniacal approach to be honest. That window closed when we failed to draft any Olinemen of worth in 2017/2018.. I mean Jesus, could we have at least brought in guys like Harrison?? He’s the staring LT now for CLE! Rrrggghh

 

*ahem*

 

Anyway, yea. As difficult as LT as are to come by, I’d still say pure pass rushers are harder. If we’re picking top 10, guys like Bosa or Allen trump any LT I’ve watched yet.

 

Buy what you can’t draft. Draft what you can’t buy.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't agree with any of that. The only way a team can get a franchise type LT is to draft them because they NEVER hit free agency. I'm sick of signing the mediocre guys that hit free agency as a stopgap for a couple of seasons.

As bad as we need a rusher, we need to fortify the Oline to protect Sam. Everything we do going forward in the draft should be for helping the offense and hopefully our new GM will understand that.

[RobR]

8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Had no clue he’d even play 5 Tech in the 3-4.

If so, you are definitely right. Nick Bosa all day.

Oliver plays nose right now but there is no way in hell he projects as a nose in a 3-4 for the NFL because he's just too light. Definitely not a 5 tech either, again because of his size. He's a three tech at the next level and call me crazy but I think he could play OLB in a 3-4 because he is so crazy athletic. I love Oliver and have been touting him since he was a true freshman but I don't see how he fits our defense. Hopefully when Bowles is sh*tcanned we go to a 4-3 because our personnel fits that scheme better. It just goes to show how bad Mac and Bowles have been at building this team.  

[RobR]

7 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Barr has been playing out of position as a strong side LB in Minnesota’s 4-3 scheme his entire pro career. And he’s still managed to be a pro-bowl player. He absolutely has the measurables and skill set to be a productive 3-4 OLB who can get after the QB.

Ray is more of a rotational guy and out of the 4 players I listed, he’d be the one I’d want the least.

So what if Fowler averages around 6 sacks a year? He’s extremely talented and still young. I don’t think he’ll ever live up to his draft position but he’s a solid cog if he can stay healthy and keep his nose clean.

Bottom line, you sure as hell have a better chance of improving the passrush through FA than you do the OL.

Bingo

[maury77]

51 minutes ago, RobR said:

Oliver plays nose right now but there is no way in hell he projects as a nose in a 3-4 for the NFL because he's just too light. Definitely not a 5 tech either, again because of his size. He's a three tech at the next level and call me crazy but I think he could play OLB in a 3-4 because he is so crazy athletic. I love Oliver and have been touting him since he was a true freshman but I don't see how he fits our defense. Hopefully when Bowles is sh*tcanned we go to a 4-3 because our personnel fits that scheme better. It just goes to show how bad Mac and Bowles have been at building this team.  

You really don't think he can play 5 tech? He's 6'3" 292 according to Houston's website. He may be a tad short for the position, but I think his weight is fine. 

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

Oliver plays nose right now but there is no way in hell he projects as a nose in a 3-4 for the NFL because he's just too light. Definitely not a 5 tech either, again because of his size. He's a three tech at the next level and call me crazy but I think he could play OLB in a 3-4 because he is so crazy athletic. I love Oliver and have been touting him since he was a true freshman but I don't see how he fits our defense. Hopefully when Bowles is sh*tcanned we go to a 4-3 because our personnel fits that scheme better. It just goes to show how bad Mac and Bowles have been at building this team.  

I absolutely agree. 4-3 might make Darron Lee useful and I think Leo would greatly benefit from it too. 

Jim Schwartz is a 4-3 guy. Wouldn’t mind him as a DC.

[RobR]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

You really don't think he can play 5 tech? He's 6'3" 292 according to Houston's website. He may be a tad short for the position, but I think his weight is fine. 

He is not 6'3" and 292lbs. I'd guess about 6'1" give or take half an inch and he's probably playing at about 280 right now. He could never play 5 tech but he would be deadly in a 4-3. I always rant and rave about offense but I wouldn't be pissed if he was the pick....he's that good. 

[Paradis]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:42 AM, Lith said:

II get that pass rush is a huge need, but nothing should be a higher priority right now than protecting Sam and surrounding him with weapons. 

Yes, but if you look at the last 10 LT taken early in the draft... I dunno if i'm comfortable relying on whom we draft to be the auto-LT... I don't think we can be that 1-dimension going into the draft.

 

On 10/3/2018 at 10:15 AM, Untouchable said:

there’s no reason the Jets shouldn’t be able to fortify the passrush in FA. Guys like Barr, Fowler, Barrett and Ray will probably all end up hitting the market. And I’d look into signing two of them. 

 

12 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Bottom line, you sure as hell have a better chance of improving the passrush through FA than you do the OL.

I feel the opposite of Rob, bingo? Couldn't be further from the truth. I actually agree with more than a couple things you said, but "easier to address PR then it is the Oline?? Is that a joke. We've seen LTs like Whitworth (just try and poke a whole in that one), guards like Norwell, and centers like Richburg, and recently A. Mack... all top players at their positions... but it's easier to land a pass rusher? Mack took a kings ransom to get out of OAK... 

Don't agree at all. 

That said, I'll admit that at first blush, this upcoming FA doesn't have any OL heavy hitters and some unique opportunities at OLB/PR... won't deny it. If we can land Barr and Fowler/Ray - i'm with you. 

 

4 hours ago, RobR said:

I don't agree with any of that. The only way a team can get a franchise type LT is to draft them because they NEVER hit free agency. I'm sick of signing the mediocre guys that hit free agency as a stopgap for a couple of seasons.

I think me and you agree on a lot of things. My god, do we need to start investing on offense... but this is just not true IMO. You look at FA over the las 10 years, and there far, far more instances of quality lineman hitting FA compared to quality pass rushers. 

[sec101row23]

7 hours ago, Paradis said:

Yes, but if you look at the last 10 LT taken early in the draft... I dunno if i'm comfortable relying on whom we draft to be the auto-LT... I don't think we can be that 1-dimension going into the draft.

 

 

I feel the opposite of Rob, bingo? Couldn't be further from the truth. I actually agree with more than a couple things you said, but "easier to address PR then it is the Oline?? Is that a joke. We've seen LTs like Whitworth (just try and poke a whole in that one), guards like Norwell, and centers like Richburg, and recently A. Mack... all top players at their positions... but it's easier to land a pass rusher? Mack took a kings ransom to get out of OAK... 

Don't agree at all. 

That said, I'll admit that at first blush, this upcoming FA doesn't have any OL heavy hitters and some unique opportunities at OLB/PR... won't deny it. If we can land Barr and Fowler/Ray - i'm with you. 

 

I think me and you agree on a lot of things. My god, do we need to start investing on offense... but this is just not true IMO. You look at FA over the las 10 years, and there far, far more instances of quality lineman hitting FA compared to quality pass rushers. 

If you’re talking O linemen in general, guards, centers tackles, then yes there are usually a handful of decent ones that hit FA in a given year.  BUT, if you’re talking legit starting caliber LTs, then those are rarer breed.  Whitworth hit the street because of his age, but for the most part you usually just get a random Beachum type guy here and there that are available.  They are usually either coming off an injury or are injury prone