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OK, want to dump Bowles? Here are some of the top candidates


Jet_Engine1

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10 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

I don't see what the problem is.

Jets are 5th in defensive yards allowed.

Jets are 8th in defensive passing yards.

Jets are 11th in defensive rushing yards.

The collective critical psyche of this board prior to the season seemed to be that with Bowles being a supposed defensive specialist that he needed to finish in the top 1/2 of the league in order to return. We were told that was impossible, that they would be near last in those categories.

Seems like mission accomplished so far.

STATS are for losers...  - Bill Parcells.    

From nycunc's post....

  6 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not even close. Hyperbole there.

What does he do well?

We haven't had back to back losing seasons since kotite until the last 2 years.

We blow leads like crazy under Todd including a 14 pt 4th qtr lead for the first time since kotite.

Was Buffalo more talented than us last yr?  They had McCoy and we didn't, other than that we were as good or better just about everywhere else yet they made the playoffs and we won 5 games.

In the biggest game since 2010 after we got a Pitt upset to set up a win and in game in 2015 Bowles had his team totally unprepared (a recurring theme throughout his time here) and they lost to an inferior team that was also banged up as Bowles was badly outcoached by the guy we fired.

 

So please tell me what he does well? Why we should keep him post 2018?  He has 14 games to change my mind but based on the first 50 games how can anyone have confidence in him

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Im not asking for it, but a bunch here are. I challenge them to find who they  want over Bowles. Its a thought experiment.  Nothing more obviously. 

A thought experiment better suited for sometime around March 2019 tbqh.

Can't say who I'd prefer till I have an idea of who might really be available, or if Bowles last chance (for me) in 2018 is a pass or fail.

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

I don't know that he's a HC though.  Coaching up a young QB and coordinating an offense for him is what Bates is good at.  Bates doesn't even coordinate the whole offense, he has Dennison as a run game coordinator.  I really like Bates but I just don't know that's a HC.  Quite honestly, it's like Rex and Bowles.....are they good HC's or were they just really good coordinators who should have stayed in that box?

Yeah I agree. Bates doesn’t seem built right for the HC spotlight.  The catch is that I think Bowles will hold us back with his poor game management but I don’t want to lose Bates’ influence on Darnold. I remember how controversial it was when the new GM Idzik was told he had to keep the coaching staff in place.  Could we get a good new HC telling them they’d have to keep Bates as OC?

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10 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Every HC has strengths and weaknesses. I think Bowles does well in the area that a lot of guys who fail at HC don't. He's great at organization and culture. This may seem silly and mundane, and I know it's not sexy, but it is what makes a team a perennial winner once you've added talented players, especially a franchise QB. The guys that coordinate the O and D come and go, as do many of the players. But, put a franchise QB into a stable environment and the sky is the limit. Very few great QBs have their HC swapped out constantly. And firing Bowles to replace him with either an unknown commodity or a carpetbagger will inevitably lead to instability, multiple HC's, changes in routine and culture, and result in the kind of volatility that ruins a franchise QB's career. 

Good post. IMO the Jets missed their opportunity to fire Bowles. This off season would have been the prefect time to do so. Now its harder to waste a year of development with Darnold unless of course Bates was promoted or retained the OC position.  Now if someone like Sean Payton were to shake loose from NO , I would fire Bowles in a heartbeat.

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Good post.  I think those are the easy things to look at though.  It becomes a little more nuanced and that's why I'd LOVE to see something like PFF grades for coaches.  As an example, did Bowles mismanage the timeouts in Week 1 or was there a problem with Darnold's headset communication?  Did Bowles mismanage the clock at the end of the 1st Half vs Miami or did Herndon make a stupid rookie mistake and not get out of bounds on the sideline, or should Darnold not have thrown the ball in the middle of the field with no timeouts and only 5 seconds left?  Are the penalties Bowles' fault?  Shouldn't he be coaching defensive coverage technique better so that we're not getting all these holding and PI calls?  Is Bowles using the right personnel?  If he trusts a rookie like Darnold over McCown why doesn't he trust a rookie like Nickerson to play Slot CB over Buster Skrine?

To me, it's all those kinds of things that factor into whether or not we have a good HC.  A great HC could go 6-10 and a bad HC might have enough talent to get to 9-7.  I don't know.  But, what I do know is that we have to look at more than numbers.  Just like Darnold's 1 TD, 2 INT game this past Sunday...I'd put one of those INTs on WR Pryor for under-running a route and not looking for the ball quickly enough.  We also point out that Darnold had at least 2 excellent passes that were dropped and one pass to the 1-yard line that could have given him 2 TDs on the day.

All this is to say that I think the evaluation of a HC has to be multi-faceted and done within the context of the environment around him.

I agree with everything you’ve said. But at some point, the flat starts, the let down games after big wins, and viscous cycle comes back to one man. The HC. I like Bowles. I’m not a hater of him, but I am starting to have serious doubts, especially if we get smoked in CLE. 

I don’t need to see the playoffs this year. But I want some big wins, hungry play, smart execution, and hope for next year. This is his 4th year. He’s got to have something to show by season’s end.

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9 minutes ago, TNJet said:

The constant passing on every down out of the shotgun? No thanks.

You don’t like Bates offense so far? I do. Lots of teams utilize the shotgun often in the pass happy league. It sets up RPO’s which Sam is good at and let’s him see the field. Bates is shanahan west coast disciple scheming for in rhythm shirt to intermediate passes that require great accuracy and work better wh n the QB can pass on rollouts. It’s tailor made for Darnolds skill set - what’s not to like about the match of Bates and Darnold.

i also love that Bates isn’t holding back with a rookie QB and Sam is raising his play to the expectations.  From the early returns I don’t want to see these two guys separated.

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@David Harris....Sunday no I didnt like Bates offense. We had 42 yds rushing. We have 2 above average runningbacks also. I cant help but think if we rush for 85 or more yds we win this game. It was all on Bates to mix it up and take the pressure off Sam. Instead he kept adding more onto his shoulders. Passed on almost every down. You cant win in this league without a running game. 

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

One of the things great coaches do is recognize what certain players CAN DO, and put them in the best position to succeed. Todd Bowles & Kacey Rogers had Sheldon Richardson playing LB? 

he had leo dropping back too. i don't know enough to say it's a good thing but shelly was a pretty decent athlete and the lb's weren't so why not.  i want to see this team win the games they should and especially play hard against division opponents.

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's impossible to properly evaluate Todd Bowles based on the rosters he's been given.  I'd like to say Bowles is about an average HC, but frankly I have no idea.

If we're firing Bowles, it can't be Mike Maccagnan making the call on the next HC.  Fire Bowles and you need to fire Maccagnan as well for giving him sh*t rosters. 

Start over with a VP of Football Operations.  Someone LIKE a Tom Coughlin or John Elway (of course we won't get someone of that caliber, but someone like that).  Let him run the ship.  We can't keep going back to the well on this stuff, because the best GM and HC candidates won't come here.  They don't care about the bright lights of NYC.  They might care a little about having Darnold.  But its still difficult to get quality people to run the show here.  That's why we need a VP.  

Nail, meet hammer. Agree on all points. 

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They both report 2 Chris still I think and Chris loves him some Maccagnan for landing Darnold so it's possible Bowles gets fired and Macc stays 

I think if you look at the contracts and take into consideration this is Darnolds rookie season and I think it's likely they both come back next year and then it's win or go probably 

The more interesting development to track in my mind is baby heimerdinger. 

He may become a hot commodity 

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5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

I agree with everything you’ve said. But at some point, the flat starts, the let down games after big wins, and viscous cycle comes back to one man. The HC. I like Bowles. I’m not a hater of him, but I am starting to have serious doubts, especially if we get smoked in CLE. 

I don’t need to see the playoffs this year. But I want some big wins, hungry play, smart execution, and hope for next year. This is his 4th year. He’s got to have something to show by season’s end.

I do think they'll give him the 2019 season if they show improvement, win something like 7+ games and maybe only because he has a rookie QB this year.  If the decision to elevate Bates to the role of Darnold custodian looks to be working AND the defense is significantly improved (which looks possible) he'll get at least another year.

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23 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Dont take this as a sales pitch to keep Bowles but program continuity has to be a factor.   Look what happened to Anderson when the Colts switched defenses.   If I was a player, I’d want to be in systems that had been proven successful and was likely to be stable for most of my contract

Kind of the implied part of my point: continuity is a plus if you're continuing success, not if you're continuing failure.

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On 9/18/2018 at 7:10 AM, JetsFanatic said:

Fire Bowles? It’s not about this year, it’s about developing Darnold which seems to be going well under Bates. This is a 7 to 8 win team. If we get lucky maybe 9 or if we miss a game winning FG maybe a 7 win team. Every time we lose a game are we going to get one of these stupid threads? 

 

No, only when we lose because of bad coaching.

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On 9/18/2018 at 8:30 AM, MaxAF said:

Maybe you should put your application in you head coach. It seems like a pretty easy job I’m sure you would be a good candidate.

Ridiculous argument.   You’d do better countering my points.    Do you have to be a carpenter to know when something wasn’t built right?    I’m sure you have opinions on cars, golf clubs, guns, or fishing rods.   Do you build or engineer everything you have an opinion on?

ive been watching football for almost 50 yrs.   I’ve seen plenty of good and bad.   That was bad.

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2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Ridiculous argument.   You’d do better countering my points.    Do you have to be a carpenter to know when something wasn’t built right?    I’m sure you have opinions on cars, golf clubs, guns, or fishing rods.   Do you build or engineer everything you have an opinion on?

ive been watching football for almost 50 yrs.   I’ve seen plenty of good and bad.   That was bad.

Well we’ve been watching football for about the same amount of time. It’s easy to find fault from the lounge chair. I haven’t dismissed Bowles yet as it see you have. You can’t turn the coaching staff over every 3 or 4 years and expect success or consistency. He’s made his mistakes but every mistake a player makes is not on him. He brings a game plan sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. He hasn’t had much to work with the last 2 years and there should be some improvements this year but I wouldn’t expect much til next year. He’ll be in year 5 and if the Jets are less than .500 at the end of the 2019 season, then I’m in the boat.

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42 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

Well we’ve been watching football for about the same amount of time. It’s easy to find fault from the lounge chair. I haven’t dismissed Bowles yet as it see you have. You can’t turn the coaching staff over every 3 or 4 years and expect success or consistency. He’s made his mistakes but every mistake a player makes is not on him. He brings a game plan sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. He hasn’t had much to work with the last 2 years and there should be some improvements this year but I wouldn’t expect much til next year. He’ll be in year 5 and if the Jets are less than .500 at the end of the 2019 season, then I’m in the boat.

If the coach makes the same mistakes in year 4 as he did in year 1, that’s okay? If a player keeps making the same mistakes and the coach doesn’t take them out, that’s on the player? It’s one thing for the team to be bad, it’s a whole other for the team to be bad, undisciplined, and uncompetitive as we’ve seen in the past. It’s not about wins or losses with this coach. It’s about showing improvement week in and week out and consistency as well. It’s year four and they just vomited on themselves at home to a team they should be better than. It’s high passed the time of when we should be considering keeping this coach around. He’s run out of OCs to scape goat. 

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The biggest red flag I’ve ever seen with Bowles was the Denver game last year. After the game Morton said, and I’m paraphrasing here...

”We just needed to get out of there.” Admitted that he quit. So either the head coach was in on quitting, or too stupid to realize what was happening, or too weak to interject. 

Would any great head coach ever have allowed that? Seriously. It wasn’t like we were down 49-0. Then okay. It was absurd. 

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1 hour ago, MaxAF said:

Well we’ve been watching football for about the same amount of time. It’s easy to find fault from the lounge chair. I haven’t dismissed Bowles yet as it see you have. You can’t turn the coaching staff over every 3 or 4 years and expect success or consistency. He’s made his mistakes but every mistake a player makes is not on him. He brings a game plan sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. He hasn’t had much to work with the last 2 years and there should be some improvements this year but I wouldn’t expect much til next year. He’ll be in year 5 and if the Jets are less than .500 at the end of the 2019 season, then I’m in the boat.

Giving him 4 consecutive years just to reach .500 is a hell of a leash. If it makes you feel any better, Chris & Woody share your sentiment. 

For me, I kinda half agree with you, in that it doesn’t happen in a vacuum: he’s only coaching the rosters he’s handed, which haven’t exactly been league-best. 

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9 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

If the coach makes the same mistakes in year 4 as he did in year 1, that’s okay? If a player keeps making the same mistakes and the coach doesn’t take them out, that’s on the player? It’s one thing for the team to be bad, it’s a whole other for the team to be bad, undisciplined, and uncompetitive as we’ve seen in the past. It’s not about wins or losses with this coach. It’s about showing improvement week in and week out and consistency as well. It’s year four and they just vomited on themselves at home to a team they should be better than. It’s high passed the time of when we should be considering keeping this coach around. He’s run out of OCs to scape goat. 

What coaching mistakes are you talking about?

If a player makes a mistake and the coach takes him out for a lesser player (a non starter) that’s better. So an O-lineman jumps offsides twice in a game and we put his backup in and we’re a better team? That doesn’t make sense to me. Jets are currently ranked 18th in most penalties in 2018. Not horrible. There are 17 teams “less disciplined” in the NFL right now. 

Consistency? It’s only the 2nd week. The Defense didn’t play horrible. Darnold passed for almost 350 yards. That’s improvement. The run game needs to step up and the O-line needs to open some holes. It’s hard to be competitive with a one dimensional offense and a rookie QB. But the O-line roster is Bowles fault, right. The Miami game was 2 or 3 plays away from Jets winning. Herndon failed to get into the end zone at the end of the half. He dropped a crucial catch ( and I think they took him out by the way) and Pryor seemed to stopped running his route which should have been a TD. But that was Bowles fault. I get it.

 

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8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

For me, I kinda half agree with you, in that it doesn’t happen in a vacuum: he’s only coaching the rosters he’s handed, which haven’t exactly been league-best

Yup! ??

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The only way to attract a top tier candidate is if Darnold progresses nicely and is considered a future franchise QB 

Which of course assures Bowles gets another year 

I really don't see a scenario where Bowles gets fired and it's a quality opening for a top candidate 

It's pretty much 2019 at this point 

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44 minutes ago, MaxAF said:

What coaching mistakes are you talking about?

If a player makes a mistake and the coach takes him out for a lesser player (a non starter) that’s better. So an O-lineman jumps offsides twice in a game and we put his backup in and we’re a better team? That doesn’t make sense to me. Jets are currently ranked 18th in most penalties in 2018. Not horrible. There are 17 teams “less disciplined” in the NFL right now. 

Consistency? It’s only the 2nd week. The Defense didn’t play horrible. Darnold passed for almost 350 yards. That’s improvement. The run game needs to step up and the O-line needs to open some holes. It’s hard to be competitive with a one dimensional offense and a rookie QB. But the O-line roster is Bowles fault, right. The Miami game was 2 or 3 plays away from Jets winning. Herndon failed to get into the end zone at the end of the half. He dropped a crucial catch ( and I think they took him out by the way) and Pryor seemed to stopped running his route which should have been a TD. But that was Bowles fault. I get it.

 

The coaching mistakes I am talking about are timeouts and challenges taken when unnecessary. Clock management as a whole has been abysmal. And I’m not talking about two weeks, I’m talking about three seasons plus. 

I’m not now nor ever will I advocate for replacing a starter with a backup for a couple of false start penalties. But if you’re someone as bad as Buster Skrine who year in and year our has been terrible, penalties aside, can’t catch a seat for a game or be relegated to special teams is infuriating because Macc has traded for and drafted a slew of corners. Literally I would be better playing the slot than Buster Skrine. 

And again, consistency isn’t for just these two weeks. Bowles hasn’t been coach for two weeks. This is a grander view of things. But these two weeks are a microcosm of exactly what consistency doesn’t look like. An amazing first week with a few things to clean up but looks like on the road to being a contender; then a massive failure on all three fronts in week two and looking like another 5-6 win team. I know there are highs and lows with any season, but eventually the good teams find a middle ground. Bowles hasn’t found that and I’m afraid he likely never will.  

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7 hours ago, MaxAF said:

What coaching mistakes are you talking about?

If a player makes a mistake and the coach takes him out for a lesser player (a non starter) that’s better. So an O-lineman jumps offsides twice in a game and we put his backup in and we’re a better team? That doesn’t make sense to me. Jets are currently ranked 18th in most penalties in 2018. Not horrible. There are 17 teams “less disciplined” in the NFL right now. 

Consistency? It’s only the 2nd week. The Defense didn’t play horrible. Darnold passed for almost 350 yards. That’s improvement. The run game needs to step up and the O-line needs to open some holes. It’s hard to be competitive with a one dimensional offense and a rookie QB. But the O-line roster is Bowles fault, right. The Miami game was 2 or 3 plays away from Jets winning. Herndon failed to get into the end zone at the end of the half. He dropped a crucial catch ( and I think they took him out by the way) and Pryor seemed to stopped running his route which should have been a TD. But that was Bowles fault. I get it.

 

What day you now, Bowles defender. 

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