I've defended Macc

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

He’s got next offseason to soldify this team.

If not, we let him proceed with Rebuild # 4?

[NoBowles]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

This is just absolutely brutal to read. Super pumped for the velcro shoe crew to stagger in here and explain that none of this counts because the Jags started rebuilding like four years before us or because Woody ordered Maccagnan to draft bad players or because the fans are too negative or whatever bullsh*t they’re on today

Why you hating on Velcro shoes?? They are much easier to tie then shoelaces, and they hold better than no lace shoes.

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Year 3. I was done with him. It was immediately evident that he was a boob that was helped by veterans. As soon as they were gone, he was exposed.

i knee he was narcissistic personality disorder from  day 1

Do you have any idea how many boobs with narcissistic personality disorders have won the super bowl? 

[HessStation]

24 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Why are you including 2014 in the comparison? Maccagnan became Jets GM in 2015.

Meh, my point of the post was in response to show Caldwell as the gold standard the last 5 years. The comparison to Mac's performance was more of a side note. The '14 was a gaffe on my part. One can still see the benchmark and the gap Maccagnan has to work his way towards imo. 

I've thrown out these comparisons in multiple other threads and usually will disclaim, Mac is two years behind via timeline. I usually end it stating he's out of mulligans and has to start hitting home runs asap. To be fair to that point, this past year might be the one, with Darnold, Shepard, Herndon and maybe even Nickerson, you hope....Seeing Lee, Adams and Williams development helps too. 

 

But the point is that's the gold standard. Caldwell's '14-17 is a ridiculously good 4 year run (7 AP/10 PB) That's the benchmark imo. Mac's '15-18 (1 PB)...but obviously it's not fair to look at '18 yet. We'll see. I'm actually optimistic about the team. But Caldwell is the Gold Standard has been my point. That's where my expectations are for this GM in the near future...if this team is ever gonna sniff a SB again, that or if Darnold is the next Peyton Manning. 

[Adoni Beast]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If not, we let him proceed with Rebuild # 4?

Then new GM time.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Then new GM time.

VP of Football Operations time. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right, because he'd have been guaranteed to tear his ACL here. 

No Jamal Adams?  Whatever would we do????

It's a causality question do we believe in different timelines? Alternate realities? Multiverse theory?

I will grant the point. We don't know 100% certainty if Cam Robinson would have torn his ACL in Week 2 of 2018 had he been drafted by the Jets.  

Perhaps he would have torn it in preseason if it's the Jets.   

[jetgreen13]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

VP of Football Operations time. 

if only.....

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

This thread was started because we cut Stewart, the 2nd of two guys cut from last years draft 3/4 picks. Not because we lost Sunday.

Then it makes even less sense to start a thread.  Whether he made the team or not we already knew he wasn't a good pick

[Embrace the Suck]

6 hours ago, BallinPB said:

I think people underestimate the amount this happens with every other team around the league.

Very true. The problem the jets have is that roster has been garbage so any mistake in amplified and not blown off like how B*B* wastes pretty much every draft.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Dcat said:

yes.  After some ugly wins too!  You have the freedom of choice not to open them.  

Yeah that makes the thread make more sense.  But really we don't have to open them?  Thanks

[Scoop24]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It lacked talent because of f***ing Mike Maccagnan and his awful drafting for the previous 3 f***ing years.  Holy sh*t.  You're talking like this was Macc's first season on the job!

We should have been building for the time when we'd draft a franchise QB, instead we have a bottom 5 roster because Macc is f***ing terrible.

Lmaoooo you seem really hurt post full of curses for what your gonna have to talk to me like a adult to get real response from me .  .. anyway continue whining . 

[Jetster]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Then it makes even less sense to start a thread.  Whether he made the team or not we already knew he wasn't a good pick

Go away numb nut

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Scoop24 said:

Lmaoooo you seem really hurt post full of curses for what  .. anyway continue whining . 

Because that level of incredible stupidity in one post requires triple the cursing. 

Continue complaining about the legitimate whining. 

[Scoop24]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because that level of incredible stupidity in one post requires triple the cursing. 

Continue complaining about the legitimate whining. 

Lol because I told u wait till offseason to bitch and moan ? What Oline is Macc gonna bring in today ? What Pass Rusher ? 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

Lol because I told u wait till offseason to bitch and moan ? What Oline is Macc gonna bring in today ? What Pass Rusher ? 

Why wait until the offseason when he's had 4 offseasons to make the roster competent?  Suggesting that this is a "rebuild" is utterly laughable.  It's a rebuild because he CREATED a rebuild.  Twice. 

You're operating as if the jury is still out on this Macc guy.  Nope, they returned their verdict a couple years ago.  He's terrible at his job.  And it's OK to admit that. 

Maybe if we b*tch and moan enough he'll get fired, like he should have been already by now.  THAT is the fix we need, not whatever he's planning to do with that $90M+ in cap space and draft choices. 

[flgreen]

4 hours ago, Sarge4Tide said:

He's about the only 1 they don't complain about ?

LOL

You guys are spoiled.  Ross (can't spell his name) Piersbacher? isn't to shabby either.  If Jets got him in the 3rd I'd be thrilled

[bla bla bla]

I'm frustrated with Macc, however I understand not throwing a 3rd rounder at an OL who likely won't be very good this year. Save the selection until you can get a stud LT in the 1st were you are more likely to hit. Last year the Center position likely made our OL look worse than is actually was, Macc addressed that with Long so I can't say he ignored it. People were up in arms over not taking Elflein last year but he graded out as the 32nd Center, sure having him instead of not having Stewart would be a positive but I'm not sure it would have made our OL better.

[Rangers9]

I didn't like some of Macc's moves his first few years although some of the dumber ones were probably via the owner. But I think he's improved and he's made good judgments like with the Sheldon trade last year, drafting Darnold etc. There is no team who has not passed on great players in the draft and instead selected guys with short term NFL careers.  And that includes the Patriots.  

[varjet]

As I have expressed before, I think this is what happened with Mac (and Idzik):

• When Idzik arrived, there was already a built in Scouting Function in place.  Terry Bradway and assorted other cronies under contract.  Idzik was not  a scout.  I get the impression that Woody was very involved and reluctant to terminate his existing contracts.  So the combination of the old scouts, Idzik reading reports, Rex and Woody hovering made the draft picks.  They were not good.
• I vaguely recall Idzik saying he wanted to install his own scouts eventually.  He never got that time.
• Mac takes over, and there are still old Jet scouts wandering around.  Mac got the Jets job through the Good Old Boy Network recommendations and was the Director of Scouting of the Texans.  The Texans have been competitive over the years but have been oddly constructed.  
• In any event, initially Mac was using the same scouts to draft.  He has a bigger job now than just Director of Scouting, so he needs to rely on scouts.   So it would appear that the combination of Mac reading scouting reports, Bowles and Woody continue to make draft picks.  Williams looks easy-he feel to us!  The rest of the picks?  Not great.  Devin Smith? Passed on Preston Smith and Eric Kendricks, among others.  Mauldin?  Passed on David Johnson.  Jarvis Harrison?  Was not even a real football player.   Hack?  Personally scouted by Mac.  
• Mac did hire some other young rising front office professionals.  Brian Heimerdinger for Pro Personnel, and Rex Hogan for something else.  Hogan eventually moved to the Colts, in a sideways move, mysteriously.  Despite some bad draft picks, the Jets did work out some good opportunistic trades, and Mac was in fact Executive of the Year in 2015.    
• Mac/Heimerdinger have found some good scrap heap players.  They tend to be signed for 1 year contracts.  They have also traded well.  The drafts through 2017 keep looking worse and worse.   They sign guys like Pryor for millions and have to cut bad draft picks like Stewart and Hansen who make a fraction of that.   The 2018 draft picks look better, and I understand that scouting has been revamped.  
• The Jets trade up with the Colts for the 3rd pick in the draft, giving up their 1 and 3 second round picks.  Those second round picks were and will be very high.  The theory here was that the Jets would get one of Darnold, Rosen or Mayfield, but likely not Darnold.  It was viewed as an ok trade, given some of the potential issues with Mayfield and Rosen and the cost.   By incredible luck, both the Browns and Giants passed on Darnold, and the Jets took him.  At the current moment, which could change, the view is that Darnold is going to be a great QB and the Browns and Giants messed up passing on him.
• The NFL is a what can you do for me today business.  Who is going to build the team around Darnold TODAY.   If Heimerdinger gets signed away, the Jets are sunk.  I think the next few games are really going to show the fans and NFL community how crappy of a job Mac has done in building this team, which will be evident by showing the beating inflicted on the Accidental Crown Jewel.  If the Jets are smart, they would run the ball alot and keep Darnold out of trouble.  Dropping him back will not save their jobs-it will have the opposite effect.  

[JetFaninMI]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

If only there was a way to evaluate and judge draft picks before you choose them. I would call it” scouting.” Never again would you whip a dart at your big board and take what sticks. 

Sadly this look as though it has been Macc's draft strategy since he's been here. Except for the one's that fell into his lap.

[RutgersJetFan]

3 hours ago, Jetster said:

If you have to ask than you most certainly are not a TRUE JET FAN.

That's not true. Look at my screenname, the words Jet and Fan are right in it. If I wasn't a true fan I wouldn't be able to do that.

[Jetsplayer21]

7 hours ago, BallinPB said:

I think people underestimate the amount this happens with every other team around the league.

No actually every other single team has drafted an OL before the 6th round atleast once in past 4 years. I don’t even have to look that up..

[rangerous]

7 hours ago, Jetster said:

People on these boards know that I have defended Macc quite a few times but with the recent release of 2 more players (Stewart & Hansen), my patience is now wearing a bit thin. 

Its only 2 games & nothing can be concluded yet but the indifference these guys have put on our Oline is boardering on criminal. If you notice, each & every game has the same tone when reviewed by people who get paid to examine these matchups. It's unanimous that the left side of the Jets Oline is a dumpster fire. 

I mean going forward, this team will be underdogs in probably every single game they play vs teams that have pass rushers. This is the direct result of ignoring the offensive trenches & continually giving Bowles/Rogers defense at the top of the draft, BUT, the 3/4 picks at WR last year were ridiculous! Both guys complete stiffs! I had hope as I don't watch college football but these mid picks are really getting bad & there are a lot of teams with guys starting that were picked slightly after these guys. Disappointed. 

yep.  i think that 3rd and 4th pick could have easily gotten one or two good olinemen.  i'm kind of disappointed the way stewart and hansen turned out.  one guy?  okay.  that's the luck of the draw but both?  it used to be the 4th round is where the jets would find some decent players.

[Jetster]

3 minutes ago, rangerous said:

yep.  i think that 3rd and 4th pick could have easily gotten one or two good olinemen.  i'm kind of disappointed the way stewart and hansen turned out.  one guy?  okay.  that's the luck of the draw but both?  it used to be the 4th round is where the jets would find some decent players.

Leon Washington

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah that makes the thread make more sense.  But really we don't have to open them?  Thanks

You're very welcome. But even though you now understand that you are not required to read those threads, you know you will anyway. So the question should be will you whine about it again?

[Paradis]

8 hours ago, BallinPB said:

I think people underestimate the amount this happens with every other team around the league.

 

7 hours ago, C Mart said:

Agree. People say they only care about the Jets and that's fine but if you look around the other 31 teams these type of moves/duds happen all the time. I always thought the media definition of a successful draft is if you get two quality players out of each draft. 

Just look at the Jets PS. They have two recent 3rd round picks (Webb '17, Kaufusi '16 (a Ozzie Newsome pick). RB Henderson was a '17 6th rounder

 

4 hours ago, redlichtie said:

As always CMart you make a good point. My issue is how do we know really anything about how Stewart, and to a lesser extent Hansen, will ultimately develop as pro players? 1 season just isn’t enough but as you point out it’s not just a Jets issue. 

 

Sorry guys, but I have to chime in - cause Macc deserves 100% of the criticism he's received for drafting poorly. He's earned it. 

• We are batting MUCH worse than the NFL average for wasted picks. The only other team that's done worse -- CLE (no comment) and NE, who average like 10 picks a year, with maybe 1/4 of them sticking after 2 years. You can afford to be sh*tty when Tom Brady is your QB I guess.
• You can expect 30-35% of your picks to go nowhere, but not w/ top 4 rounds. We're at like 20% success rate. That's HORRIBLE. 
• Just go back over the drafts of 2015-2017 *across the NFL*  in rounds 2-4... most of those guys have played meaningful snaps for their respective teams.... Most of ours haven't. After 3 drafts, the most production we're seeing out of rounds 2-4 is Marcus Maye.... and Jenkins?? Are you kidding me? 

Read that again. Mac's drafts from 2015-2017... Rounds 2-4 AKA CRITICAL THINKING PICKS.... (your developmental bread and butter)....Marcus Maye and Jordan Jenkins... THAT'S IT PEOPLE.

• Bryce Petty
• Laurenzo Mauldin
• Devin Smith
• Christian Hackenberg
• Justin Burris
• Ardarius Steward
• Chad Hansen

Those are supposed to be our meat and potatoes of the future. Picks where critical thinking is needed. I assure you @BallinPB this is not the league average. Not by a long shot. 

[Smashmouth]

7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Are these threads going to appear after each loss?  

they always do you should be used to it by now

[DMan77]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He certainly seemed to finally understand the importance of bringing in athletes this past offseason, I'll give him that.  But suggesting he's maybe gone from a terrible GM to a competent one is still not an assertion I'd agree with.  And showing a "desire to turn this team into a winner" is not a point in his favor.  I don't think any GM's want to build losers. 

I just meant he seems to care. There were points with Idzik where I wasn't so sure he even wanted to be in the building. But, ya, I get what you're saying.

If he is improving, I think you keep him around and see what he can do. If a player started to show some improvements after a bad couple of years, you would hope that would continue and not instead kick him to the curb for his first couple tries. A lot of people say "It's different!" when I mention that, but I don't think it is. It's all a learning curve and a lesson year to year, with the hopes that sooner than later the player hits their stride and becomes a star.

Yes, you definitely risk him maxing out at some low level of aptitude as a GM... For sure! But I think as long as a guy is showing that he's learning and doesn't seem to be remaking the same mistakes, then you roll with him.

The stability at the GM position plus that GM trending in the right direction feels like a recipe for keeping him around... For now. 

[varjet]

I think Mac could sit down with the Johnson’s, admit his mistakes and convince them that he has figured out what he needs to do and change.

I don’t see Bowles doing that.  Where is his Dick Curl? 

[C Mart]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

As I have expressed before, I think this is what happened with Mac (and Idzik):

 

• In any event, initially Mac was using the same scouts to draft.  He has a bigger job now than just Director of Scouting, so he needs to rely on scouts.   So it would appear that the combination of Mac reading scouting reports, Bowles and Woody continue to make draft picks.  Williams looks easy-he feel to us!  The rest of the picks?  Not great.  Devin Smith? Passed on Preston Smith and Eric Kendricks, among others.  Mauldin?  Passed on David Johnson.  Jarvis Harrison?  Was not even a real football player.   Hack?  Personally scouted by Mac.  
• Mac did hire some other young rising front office professionals.  Brian Heimerdinger for Pro Personnel, and Rex Hogan for something else.  Hogan eventually moved to the Colts, in a sideways move, mysteriously.  Despite some bad draft picks, the Jets did work out some good opportunistic trades, and Mac was in fact Executive of the Year in 2015.    

I don’t get the Bowles/Woody continue to make draft picks. Maybe I read that wrong. 

Nothing mysterious in Hogan leaving. He’s buds w/Ballard back to their Chicago Bears days. 

Harrison was a boom or bust. He busted. Gil Brandt liked him. 

I love the he fell to us it’s an easy pick. Well then why didn’t the teams in front take him and Mcc still didn’t have to...

Devin Smith got injured. IIRC he was never injured in college. It’s football so injuries do happen but we never got the chance to really see Smith. To some degree the same w/Mauldin.  

Pryors getting $2m guaranteed and some other bonuses to max of $4.5m.  Pretty good value if he can get back to ‘16 form  

As others have pointed out jets have done a good job with trades and were trashed here when they were made ie LS Hennessy  (who trades for a LS) DB Brooks for the McDougall (the great one). Henry Anderson. 

[Integrity28]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Do you have any idea how many boobs with narcissistic personality disorders have won the super bowl? 

I know 1 boob who didn’t. That’s all that matters.

[rangerous]

14 hours ago, Jetster said:

Leon Washington

wasn't kerry rhodes also in the fourth?  or brad smith?

[Jet Nut]

19 hours ago, Jetster said:

Go away numb nut

That should be your next riveting thread title.