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Waste your time on my self-indulgent, overly-long, thoughts on the state of the Jets (plus bonus content)

ZachEY

By ZachEY
in NY Jets Forum

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flgreen

flgreen

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32 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

And they have 1 win just like the Jets do.  Not sure what you're trying to say.  Furthermore, Darnold actually prepped, played, and got knocked around for 3 games.  Mayfield held a clipboard for all but 2 quarters.  I'm not trying to make excuses for Darnold, but there is a difference.  

LOL

The point was you said it "was almost unprecedented in NFL history"  C'mon the Browns had one more day to prepare for 3 games.  

Yes your right, there is a difference when a back up comes in a game.  Mayfield  didn't get to get reps with the starters, he more then likely mimicked the Jets O all week on the scout team.  

The point was the 3 games in 11 days, compared to 3 games in 12 days is making excuses.  I'm not even blaming Darnold for the loss.  The OL sucks, the team is unprepared, and undisciplined.  The HC doesn't think his game plan should change at the half...………...Ever.  

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ChuckkieB

ChuckkieB

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LOL
The point was you said it "was almost unprecedented in NFL history"  C'mon the Browns had one more day to prepare for 3 games.  
Yes your right, there is a difference when a back up comes in a game.  Mayfield  didn't get to get reps with the starters, he more then likely mimicked the Jets O all week on the scout team.  
The point was the 3 games in 11 days, compared to 3 games in 12 days is making excuses.  I'm not even blaming Darnold for the loss.  The OL sucks, the team is unprepared, and undisciplined.  The HC doesn't think his game plan should change at the half...………...Ever.  


If I’m not mistaken, this has happened only once since 1950, and nowhere Idid i ever exclude the Browns from the equation. They had the same tough schedule. The point I was trying to make was that Darnold had a lot on his plate for the first 11 days o his playing career. This is not an excuse. It’s a fact. It’s also a fact that he played lousy yesterday and only ok last week. I just think the larger share of the blame shouts fall at the feet of the two people who have built and coach the team, not the rookie QB.


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ZachEY

ZachEY

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1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

I agreed with a lot of what you said, but in regards to this part ... Sorry, but yeah, the fact that he's a 21-year-old rookie with two college seasons under his belt really is a big deal. And yes, you can ignore a lot of the turbulence he's going to go through because of that fact, especially three games into the season. 

So, literally anything he does is free of critique because of this?

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14 in Green

14 in Green

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I'm going to get killed here for writing this, and I probably should because I thought it was a phenomenal move come draft night. I'm even going to preface it by saying 3 weeks is way to early to say it, but.... If we had kept those 3 second round picks, and taken Rosen or Allen, wouldn't we be in a much better position going forward?

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Larz

Larz

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It's been a frustrating 2 weeks but maybe a little early for an autopsy

Since the new CBA it takes 3 to 4 weeks for teams to settle in and we have the youngest staring QB in nfl history 

The cheaters were 2-2 last year and either the Texans or giants will be 0-3 tomorrow 

You ladies Crack me up 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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On 9/22/2018 at 3:07 PM, Larz said:

It's been a frustrating 2 weeks but maybe a little early for an autopsy

Since the new CBA it takes 3 to 4 weeks for teams to settle in and we have the youngest staring QB in nfl history 

The cheaters were 2-2 last year and either the Texans or giants will be 0-3 tomorrow 

 You ladies Crack me up 

Be sure to let us know the moment we're allowed to form opinions.

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Warfish

Warfish

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On 9/21/2018 at 9:50 AM, TeddEY said:

JetNation - The game thread last night became a disaster.  Guys, it's a game and it's a discussion forum.  Getting angry at each other is one thing, but telling people to go **** themselves and to kill themselves and the other meltdowns - get some priorities.  This is a hobby.  It doesn't matter.  I imagine most of us went to work today, and would have done the same had the Jets won.  Perspective... Seriously.

I want to focus on this part:

I know JN is a low-moderation site, but even a low-moderation site should have some explicit, unbreakable, instant-ban rules.

Telling other posters to go kill themselves is absolutely one of those should-be-unbreakable rules.

As a victim of suicide, I find it absolutely unacceptable to have other posters tell me, or anyone here at JN, to go kill themselves and I'm frankly a bit disapointed that nothing but a mild warning was issued when a poster here in that thread did it multiple times to multiple posters during the game.  My deepest thanks to Max for at least saying something tho, prior to that it was just let go, and the poster in question (clearly drunk and disorderly) was headed in a much worse direction.

The game thread was indeed a sh*tshow, frankly, and it needs addressed.  People shouldn't have to avoid the site on gameday for fear the more unhinged posters might decide to go full metal psycho on other posters.

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bitonti

bitonti

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Yes, Sam Darnold would be a much better QB with new WR, a new OL, a new TE and trading for Le'Veon Bell. 

and guess what Todd Bowles would be a better coach and Mac would be a better GM. The team would be better with better players. Wow. That's some next level analysis.

Why aren't there better players?

it comes from ownership. The team is 21 mil under and doesn't have a real tight end on the roster. That's the Johnson's profit taking 

you make a 1000 word diatribe about the Jets and don't mention the weak-ass ownership, that's an oversight

last week for example they played 3 games in 10 calendar days, 2 of them away, all set up to give the Browns their first win in 2 years like a homecoming event. That scenario has literally never happened before in NFL history. 

Jerry Jones wouldn't have let that happen. Bob Kraft wouldn't have let it happen. Chris Johnson seems nice but isn't savvy. Woody isn't engaged and he's the "real" owner as far as the league is concerned. They get taken advantage of at every opportunity, including free agency and hiring and firing coaches. 

The OP says "that being said Bowles and Mac are gone" or something like that. Oh yeah? You think Chris is going to buy out Bowles? And who's he going to hire? Does he know the ATM code? Cause Woody doesn't like people spending money on the team. That's why the team hired Bowles in the first place. 

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

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25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Yes, Sam Darnold would be a much better QB with new WR, a new OL, a new TE and trading for Le'Veon Bell. 

and guess what Todd Bowles would be a better coach and Mac would be a better GM. The team would be better with better players. Wow. That's some next level analysis.

Why aren't there better players?

it comes from ownership. The team is 21 mil under and doesn't have a real tight end on the roster. That's the Johnson's profit taking 

you make a 1000 word diatribe about the Jets and don't mention the weak-ass ownership, that's an oversight

last week for example they played 3 games in 10 calendar days, 2 of them away, all set up to give the Browns their first win in 2 years like a homecoming event. That scenario has literally never happened before in NFL history. 

Jerry Jones wouldn't have let that happen. Bob Kraft wouldn't have let it happen. Chris Johnson seems nice but isn't savvy. Woody isn't engaged and he's the "real" owner as far as the league is concerned. They get taken advantage of at every opportunity, including free agency and hiring and firing coaches. 

The OP says "that being said Bowles and Mac are gone" or something like that. Oh yeah? You think Chris is going to buy out Bowles? And who's he going to hire? Does he know the ATM code? Cause Woody doesn't like people spending money on the team. That's why the team hired Bowles in the first place. 

I know this is the bell you like to ring - that the team is saving cap money to line Johnson's pocket - but this is just not true.

They offered top-dollar contracts to several top-dollar players who just refused to come here: Cousins, Norwell, Robinson, Watkins, Suh off the top of my head. One and all, they chose to go elsewhere. Also Trumaine Johnson may only count $10m on this year's cap, but in dollars he makes $26m this year. The only reason a team would structure him in this way is to leave the flexibility to sign more players. 

Of all the criticisms I have under Johnson ownership, the unwillingness to spend money on players is not one of them. It's more this fool's eager willingness to hire and extend bad people, most notably the separate hiring both the GM and HC himself (and then extending them even despite poor results).

In almost 20 years never once been so much as a hint of a leak that Johnson ever directed a GM to steer clear of the cap limit. With the amount he makes on this team, plus the $3 billion or so by which this asset has appreciated, I'm not even sure $21m this year even qualifies as a rounding error. 

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bitonti

bitonti

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19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I know this is the bell you like to ring - that the team is saving cap money to line Johnson's pocket - but this is just not true.

They offered top-dollar contracts to several top-dollar players who just refused to come here: Cousins, Norwell, Robinson, Watkins, Suh off the top of my head. One and all, they chose to go elsewhere. Also Trumaine Johnson may only count $10m on this year's cap, but in dollars he makes $26m this year. The only reason a team would structure him in this way is to leave the flexibility to sign more players. 

Of all the criticisms I have under Johnson ownership, the unwillingness to spend money on players is not one of them. It's more this fool's eager willingness to hire and extend bad people, most notably the separate hiring both the GM and HC himself (and then extending them even despite poor results).

In almost 20 years never once been so much as a hint of a leak that Johnson ever directed a GM to steer clear of the cap limit. With the amount he makes on this team, plus the $3 billion or so by which this asset has appreciated, I'm not even sure $21m this year even qualifies as a rounding error. 

They couldn't find a TE? they couldn't sign ASJ? Cmon. They couldn't find a pass rusher? 

your logic is because they couldn't spend it on SUH they shouldn't spend it at all? I don't buy it. They should not be starting Tomlinson and Tuvu. There's a middle ground between amazing and nothing. 

since you asked the problem with the Johnson's is too much of their wealth derives from the team. Other guys like Paul Allen or Shahid Khan, this is a diversion. Look at the ownership wealth list, the Krafts and Johnsons are near the bottom. They are worth 3.5 Bil and the team is worth 3. The Krafts find ways around it like giving TB12 a lease and a contract to have his witch doctor on staff. It's cheating but they at least try. The smartest thing Woody ever did was buy the team. Johnson and Johnson was a long time ago. They do cut corners on payroll and they certainly cut corners hiring coaches. This is their golden goose and these tv contract checks actually matter to the Johnsons. Paul Allen doesn't care.  

don't believe me? Why has ever coach they've ever hired since Tuna been a first timer? Why are they luring Jeremy Bates out of the woods with Omaha Steaks? Because these are cheap things to do. There's no salary cap on coaches. Even small market teams like the Steelers have Mike Munshak at OL coach. He's a HOF OLman, former HC, former OC, working at line coach. They don't pay Bell but they pay for something. The Jets are the worst of both worlds, cheap with no commitment to winning.  

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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On 9/21/2018 at 2:26 PM, SR24 said:

Here's an insane stat about Mac-   In his 2015-2017 drafts out of the 9 players he selected from rounds 2-4 only 2 are still on the roster. How can you rebuild with a GM who can't draft?!?!?!?!?!!?! 

Not that it matters, but isn't it 3?  Jenkins, Maye and Burris? .333 is pretty good in baseball. 

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Yes, Sam Darnold would be a much better QB with new WR, a new OL, a new TE and trading for Le'Veon Bell. 

and guess what Todd Bowles would be a better coach and Mac would be a better GM. The team would be better with better players. Wow. That's some next level analysis.

Why aren't there better players?

it comes from ownership. The team is 21 mil under and doesn't have a real tight end on the roster. That's the Johnson's profit taking 

you make a 1000 word diatribe about the Jets and don't mention the weak-ass ownership, that's an oversight

last week for example they played 3 games in 10 calendar days, 2 of them away, all set up to give the Browns their first win in 2 years like a homecoming event. That scenario has literally never happened before in NFL history. 

Jerry Jones wouldn't have let that happen. Bob Kraft wouldn't have let it happen. Chris Johnson seems nice but isn't savvy. Woody isn't engaged and he's the "real" owner as far as the league is concerned. They get taken advantage of at every opportunity, including free agency and hiring and firing coaches. 

The OP says "that being said Bowles and Mac are gone" or something like that. Oh yeah? You think Chris is going to buy out Bowles? And who's he going to hire? Does he know the ATM code? Cause Woody doesn't like people spending money on the team. That's why the team hired Bowles in the first place. 

There's a difference between spending money, and throwing it away.  I applaud the team for not throwing money away, and signing bad contracts.  These free agent signings barely ever work out, and there's simply no sense in giving out money because the money exists.  So, it's not an oversight, it's me simply not wanting to make additional bad decisions.

Hell, we paid Trumain Johnson, who a good football team, decided didn't want him anymore.  There's no way that move pays off for the Jets.  No chance.

Also:

38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I know this is the bell you like to ring - that the team is saving cap money to line Johnson's pocket - but this is just not true.

They offered top-dollar contracts to several top-dollar players who just refused to come here: Cousins, Norwell, Robinson, Watkins, Suh off the top of my head. One and all, they chose to go elsewhere. Also Trumaine Johnson may only count $10m on this year's cap, but in dollars he makes $26m this year. The only reason a team would structure him in this way is to leave the flexibility to sign more players. 

Of all the criticisms I have under Johnson ownership, the unwillingness to spend money on players is not one of them. It's more this fool's eager willingness to hire and extend bad people, most notably the separate hiring both the GM and HC himself (and then extending them even despite poor results).

 In almost 20 years never once been so much as a hint of a leak that Johnson ever directed a GM to steer clear of the cap limit. With the amount he makes on this team, plus the $3 billion or so by which this asset has appreciated, I'm not even sure $21m this year even qualifies as a rounding error. 

This is all true.  When the Jets have players worth paying, they pay them.  When the Jets have players that kind of aren't worth paying, they still, often times pay them.  What they're not doing, is paying players that aren't worth paying at all.  This is an actual good thing.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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27 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They couldn't find a TE? they couldn't sign ASJ? Cmon. They couldn't find a pass rusher? 

your logic is because they couldn't spend it on SUH they shouldn't spend it at all? I don't buy it. They should not be starting Tomlinson and Tuvu. There's a middle ground between amazing and nothing. 

 since you asked the problem with the Johnson's is too much of their wealth derives from the team. Other guys like Paul Allen or Shahid Khan, this is a diversion. Look at the ownership wealth list, the Krafts and Johnsons are near the bottom. They are worth 3.5 Bil and the team is worth 3. The Krafts find ways around it like giving TB12 a lease and a contract to have his witch doctor on staff. It's cheating but they at least try. The smartest thing Woody ever did was buy the team. Johnson and Johnson was a long time ago. They do cut corners on payroll and they certainly cut corners hiring coaches. This is their golden goose and these tv contract checks actually matter to the Johnsons. Paul Allen doesn't care.  

 don't believe me? Why has ever coach they've ever hired since Tuna been a first timer? Why are they luring Jeremy Bates out of the woods with Omaha Steaks? Because these are cheap things to do. There's no salary cap on coaches. Even small market teams like the Steelers have Mike Munshak at OL coach. He's a HOF OLman, former HC, former OC, working at line coach. They don't pay Bell but they pay for something. The Jets are the worst of both worlds, cheap with no commitment to winning.  

ASJ was one of the bottom ranked TEs in the league last year.  Johnson and Johnson is #45 on America's most profitable companies in 2018 and outperformed the S&P500 during the last two bear markets.

Your data has flaws.

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bitonti

bitonti

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

 These free agent signings barely ever work out

2

These NFL regular seasons barely ever work out. it's a 1/32 chance which is like 3%. If a franchise makes good decisions and spends etc maybe they can be 10% to win it all. 

A team like the Jets trotting out street free agents as starters at real positions it goes down to less than 1%. If we are having a conversation in January why no one good wants this job, Jeremiah Attatchu and Eric Tomlinson are reasons why.  

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bitonti

bitonti

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

ASJ was one of the bottom ranked TEs in the league last year.  Johnson and Johnson is #45 on America's most profitable companies in 2018 and outperformed the S&P500 during the last two bear markets.

Your data has flaws.

ASJ would have scored the TD Herndon was too puss to reach for

and the Johnsons cashed out of J&J generations ago. they are philanthropists. Paul Allen helped invent MS Windows. 

there's a forbes owner wealth list and the Johnsons are near the bottom. 

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dbatesman

dbatesman

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Posted
35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They couldn't find a TE? they couldn't sign ASJ? Cmon. They couldn't find a pass rusher? 

ASJ was literally the worst tight end in the league last year. We can’t find a pass rusher because the GM is a blundering idiot who’s beyond clueless when it comes to the draft.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

These NFL regular seasons barely ever work out. it's a 1/32 chance which is like 3%. If a franchise makes good decisions and spends etc maybe they can be 10% to win it all. 

 A team like the Jets trotting out street free agents as starters at real positions it goes down to less than 1%. If we are having a conversation in January why no one good wants this job, Jeremiah Attatchu and Eric Tomlinson are reasons why.  

When the job is available, the Jets will have Sam Darnold (I expect to remain a positive), a top 10 pick, and maybe the league most cap space.  Lets discuss then who the "good" people are, if we want them, and if they turn that opportunity down.

The Raiders gave Jon Gruden 100M.  He has a Super Bowl under his belt.  They are 0-3.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

ASJ would have scored the TD Herndon was too puss to reach for

and the Johnsons cashed out of J&J generations ago. they are philanthropists. Paul Allen helped invent MS Windows. 

there's a forbes owner wealth list and the Johnsons are near the bottom. 

Would he have?

I seem to remember a handful of TDs that ASJ did not score last year, that we probably could have said, "a random TE off the street would have caught that pass."

Woody Johnson is listed as one of the 500 wealthiest people on the planet, as per Forbes.  I'm struggling to buy this argument.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

ASJ was literally the worst tight end in the league last year. We can’t find a pass rusher because the GM is a blundering idiot who’s beyond clueless when it comes to the draft.

Indeed, what pass rusher were we too cheap to pick up?

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Warfish

Warfish

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

it comes from ownership. The team is 21 mil under and doesn't have a real tight end on the roster. That's the Johnson's profit taking 

2018 - Chris Herndon - Miami, 4th Round Draft
2017 - Jordan Leggett - Clemson, 5th Round Draft
2017 - Neil Sterling - Jacksonville Jaguars 7th Round Pick, FA Signing
2017 - Will Tye - NY Giants, UDFA, FA Signing
2016 - Eric Tomlinson - Phili. Eagles UDFA, PS Signing
2016 - Austin Seferian-Jenkins - Tampa Bay 2nd Round Pick, FA Signing
2016 - Brandon Bostick - Green Bay UDFA, FA Signing
2015 - Kellen Davis, Chi. Bears 5th Round Pick, FA Signing

And I am sure I'm forgetting some too, lol.

Sure seems like Macc has been trying (and failing so far) to fill that spot, with typical "Macc thinks he is smarter than everyone else" type picks.

Was there some huge $$$ FA TE we like, totally should have signed, that you have direct knowledge of Woody veto'ing Macc?

Because if not, this ongoing dog whistle against our owner (for rather blatantly obvious motivations/reasons, tbqh Bit) seems like wild, unsupported, speculation.

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