A moderate defense of Bates, Darnold and the Offense

[jetstream23]

 

In the face of all the criticism I'll throw in my 2 cents and a moderate defense of Bates, Darnold and the Offense....

The Jets never trailed in this game until there were about 4 minutes left.  The game plan was obviously to run the ball and have Darnold make quick, safe throws.  The screens to Enunwa worked more often than not and pushing the offense to take risks with deep balls just for the sake of it didn't really make a lot of sense to me.  Especially through 3 quarters as the Jets were leading and our defense was limiting the Browns to a large degree, there was no real need to raise the risk/reward profile of the gameplan.

The Browns have a good D.  Pushing our rookie QB and very average offense to take chances against a team that held the Saints to 275 TOTAL yards (not passing yards) makes little sense when you're winning.  Suggesting that Darnold try to stretch the field and make big plays (as much as I'd love to see it) makes little sense against a D that intercepted Ben Roethlisberger 3 times.  This was a game being managed by Bates and it was working until the Jets shot themselves in the foot with penalties and the defense had no answer for Baker Mayfield. By that time (4 minutes left in the game) it was too late.

I'm frustrated.  I'm pissed off at the outcome.  But regarding the offense, I'm not ready to pour a ton of heat on Bates and Darnold, despite both having less than stellar games.  Bates protected his QB, got the team to a lead, started to reduce risk, and when it was needed late in the game they engineered what SHOULD have been a game-winning drive for 3 points.

IF the defense could have made ONE stop in the 4th quarter when the Browns had to go 75 yards.  IF the Jets would not have shot themselves in the foot with penalties, backing themselves up with false starts, giving Darnold horrible starting field position on every drive except the one after the Browns early turnover.  Then I think the outcome is different.   The blame goes mostly on the Coach (discipline, penalties, no adjustments to Baker Mayfield's style) and a defense that couldn't stop a nosebleed when it mattered most.

For about 56 minutes of game time Darnold had led the Jets to 17 points and he had no turnovers.  He was following the script and he made some good, important completions to get the lead back midway through the 4th Quarter.  The Jets squandered the lead, trailed by more than a FG putting the Jets in TD or bust mode with 4 minutes left, and had Darnold in obvious passing situations which resulted in 2 INTs.  He wasn't good, but up until he was put in a no-win situation he really wasn't bad either.

I needed to step back and think about this game after decompressing for 12 hours.....

The Steelers with Ben Roethisberger and Antonio Brown scored 21 points in 5 Quarters vs. the Browns.

The Saints with Drew Brees, Alvin Kamara and Michael Thomas scored 18 points vs. the Browns.

The Jets, Sam Darnold, Quincy Enunwa and Isaiah Crowell scored 17 points vs. the Browns.

 

I'm not hitting the panic button yet.  I'm not throwing in the towel on either Darnold or Bates.  My attention is really starting to shift to the HC who isn't holding players accountable enough to make them change their behavior.  But, that's a topic being covered in many, many other threads.

 

Just my 2 cents.  Thanks for reading.  Now....let me have it!  (ready to dodge the tomatoes being thrown)

[Thai Jet]

You know you might be killed for this ? You're dealing with an angry mob.

[nico002]

Great post 

Darnold had one horrible throw in the game, the 1st int- just brutal 

before that, the game plan was to be safe with the ball- reason why I think he was holding it for so long 

[SR24]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'm frustrated.  I'm pissed off at the outcome.  But regarding the offense, I'm not ready to pour a ton of heat on Bates and Darnold, despite both having less than stellar games.  Bates protected his QB, got the team to a lead, started to reduce risk,

takes foot off gas and they blow right by us. If this isn't the motto of this coaching staff idk what is 

[SR24]

OP very insightful post though, just the conservative playing it safe gameplans never seem to pay off

[Paradis]

 
Just my 2 cents.  Thanks for reading.  Now....let me have it!  (ready to dodge the tomatoes being thrown)

Love you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nyjunc]

Bates had a rough night scared to death (probably because of his HC) of a really good Cleveland D.  Overall I like what he has done so far.

[jetstream23]

13 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

You know you might be killed for this ? You're dealing with an angry mob.

The loss is made worse and amplified by the fact that this was such a winnable game.  And, by the opponent not having won in 2+ years (despite the fact that the Browns are going to win many more games this year).  Being on national TV doesn't make anyone feel good about this either.  I just want the conversations to be more nuanced and realistic.  We have problems but I honestly do not think the offense is the biggest issue.  I've defended Bowles a little bit over the years, but I now recognize that he's probably our biggest issue.  His tenure here is starting to resemble Rex Ryan....He's getting worse, not better in year 4.  His defenses can't make the important stops despite playing very well for large stretches and having much more talent than the O.  He didn't adjust to the new QB last night despite Mayfield coming in before half-time and the Jets knowing they'd see him all 2nd Half.

The discipline is what kills me though.  Especially the personal fouls.  Those aren't only disruptive because of their punitive nature (15 yards) but they're embarrassing and they send a message to other players that these kinds of things are acceptable under the head coach because there are no consequences.

[Augustiniak]

the problem is, bowles has coached the same with with fitz and mccown as well.  as soon as he gets a lead, the entire 2nd half is spent trying to eat clock while not attacking to try to finish off the other team.  what usually happens is, the jets keep punting (except when they turn it over with stupid fumbles) and lose the lead late in the game when the defense invariably falters.  then the offense is in desperation mode.  this has less to do with darnold and more to do with the HC who lacks 1) a killer instinct, 2) a feel for how the game is unfolding and how many points will be needed to win, 3) an understanding of in-game adjustments and 4) true accountability for all the sloppy penalties and mental lapses.  

the jets/browns game highlighted most of the problems with the bowles/mccagnan era.  the jets weren't just outcoached but out gm-ed, since the browns had a BETTER ROSTER.  all the jets cap room is irrelevant since they will still have to overpay for mediocre vets and it's just another way of spinning that their own drafts have sucked so they haven't had to invest $$ in their own draft picks.

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, SR24 said:

OP very insightful post though, just the conservative playing it safe gameplans never seem to pay off

I agree.  But when we did press the accelerator we threw two INTs in less than 4 minutes.  I, personally, was satisfied with how the game was being managed most of the way against a defense that's better than people think.  I would have been irate if we threw a risky pass for a Pick-6 while we had a lead.  And, when the game was tied Bates and Darnold did put together a good drive down to the 10 yard line and kicked the FG.

I could make an argument that Sam Darnold DID have a game-winning drive in the 4th Quarter after the Browns tied the game.....until the defense took it away from him and put him in an impossible situation with 4 minutes left.

[jetstream23]

5 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Love you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I love you man! lol

Keep the faith.

[Happy Clouds]

No tomato throwing from me. Very sound analyses. 

 I’ll save my tomatoes to throw at our defensive minded head coach and defensive coordinator, who couldn’t figure out a scheme to confuse, or at least slow down a rookie qb making his first NFL appearance. 

[Legend Killa7]

5 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I agree.  But when we did press the accelerator we threw two INTs in less than 4 minutes.  I, personally, was satisfied with how the game was being managed most of the way against a defense that's better than people think.  I would have been irate if we threw a risky pass for a Pick-6 while we had a lead.  And, when the game was tied Bates and Darnold did put together a good drive down to the 10 yard line and kicked the FG.

I could make an argument that Sam Darnold DID have a game-winning drive in the 4th Quarter after the Browns tied the game.....until the defense took it away from him and put him in an impossible situation with 4 minutes left.

you're right, but we needed a TD there, not a FG.  You just knew the Browns were going to score on the next drive.  you could feel it as they were rolling on offense.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Legend Killa7 said:

you're right, but we needed a TD there, not a FG.  You just knew the Browns were going to score on the next drive.  you could feel it as they were rolling on offense.

which enraged me even more when the jets had 1st and 10 inside the browns 20 and ran 2x and then did a short pass.  that drive told you everything you needed to know about bowles.  he would rather lose 21-17 than risk an interception and have the browns win 17-14.  you're starting a rookie qb so he can experience all different types of situations and pressure so that when the team improves he's more ready.  bowles is still trying to lose games by close scores to keep his job.  

the entire game the jets didn't throw the ball into the endzone.  THE ENTIRE GAME.  how can you not take shots, especially when the defense is stacking the box?  

[TJ]

Prevent Defense prevented us from winning the game.  Bowles is terrible. 

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

you're right, but we needed a TD there, not a FG.  You just knew the Browns were going to score on the next drive.  you could feel it as they were rolling on offense.

Agreed.  I have no problem with not going for it on 4th down.  You HAVE to take the 3 and the lead there, but the plays before that were chicken-sh!t.  We needed the TD there and you could just feel this being setup for a Browns comeback.

[JustInFudge]

Great take but I think the bigger point here that everyone needs to get a grip of....the Jets are a bad Football team.  3-5 wins bad. Perspective is key here.  It’s all about building Darnold and nothing about winning. 

[Obrien2Toon]

Cleveland’s D made Big Ben and Brees look bad

he’ll be fine

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, JiF said:

Great take but I think the bigger point here that everyone needs to get a grip of....the Jets are a bad Football team.  3-5 wins bad. Perspective is key here.  It’s all about building Darnold and nothing about winning. 

To that point, how many truly bad plays have we seen from him that were his fault.  Play 1 in Detroit....The first INT vs. the Dolphins when he didn't recognize a very savvy and veteran move by a Safety to break off his route and jump that quick seam route?  Are there really too many others?  Maybe the first INT last night, throwing the ball to Kearse while being hit.....But the Jets were in desperation mode.  I knew the outcome would either be an INT by Cleveland or a Jets TD.  I really only put half of the INTs this year on Darnold.  The others aren't so much on him (Pryor under-running a route in the end zone, and two desperation plays last night).

Beyond that, I've continued to see great composure and some good decision-making.  He made some very good throws last night and did press down the middle of the field a few times, especially driving late for the go-ahead FG.

I still think this rookie season is going the way it largely should and the experience is invaluable.  But I really wonder what @jetsons thinks about all this.

[Scott Dierking]

He has to, HAS TO get the plays in faster. They are constantly up against they clock as the break the huddle. Darnold does not even have time to properly survey the field and defense.

[sec101row23]

Awesome post!!

[UntouchableCrew]

It seems I'm in the minority but I had no problem with what Bates has done so far. Most of the offensive issues are due to personnel and lack of execution.

[Legend Killa7]

13 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

To that point, how many truly bad plays have we seen from him that were his fault.  Play 1 in Detroit....The first INT vs. the Dolphins when he didn't recognize a very savvy and veteran move by a Safety to break off his route and jump that quick seam route?  Are there really too many others?  Maybe the first INT last night, throwing the ball to Kearse while being hit.....But the Jets were in desperation mode.  I knew the outcome would either be an INT by Cleveland or a Jets TD.  I really only put half of the INTs this year on Darnold.  The others aren't so much on him (Pryor under-running a route in the end zone, and two desperation plays last night).

Beyond that, I've continued to see great composure and some good decision-making.  He made some very good throws last night and did press down the middle of the field a few times, especially driving late for the go-ahead FG.

I still think this rookie season is going the way it largely should and the experience is invaluable.

yup.  and what gets lost in the result last night is that he converted a 4th and 10!!!!  in crunchtime.  when was the last time you saw that with the Jets?  

[jetstream23]

Just now, Legend Killa7 said:

yup.  and what gets lost in the result last night is that he converted a 4th and 10!!!!  in crunchtime.  when was the last time you saw that with the Jets?  

Bingo.

If you evaluate 56 minutes of the game before we put Darnold in a no-win, pass only situation where he needed a TD and not a FG.....he was playing pretty well in a conservative gameplan.  He was certainly looking better than Roethlisberger did vs. the Browns.

[Embrace the Suck]

1 hour ago, Thai Jet said:

You know you might be killed for this ? You're dealing with an angry mob.

 

[RevisIsland610]

I respect the ops take on the game. Well thought out and coherent observations. I just feel that Bates has been a little too conservative with the play calling. There was one point in the game where he ran the ball to one side either 4 or 5 times in a row and a lot of the pass plays were conservative as well. There is nothing wrong with putting a few wrinkles in the game plan. What about play action instead of running to the same side multiple times in a row. I dont think there is any one part of this team that didn't play a role in the loss to some degree and that includes some of the play calling. 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Great take but I think the bigger point here that everyone needs to get a grip of....the Jets are a bad Football team.  3-5 wins bad. Perspective is key here.  It’s all about building Darnold and nothing about winning. 

The Jets are not a bad football team ...They are however a poorly coached football team.

Cleveland has a dominant Defense that is very good at every level. When we had the chance to really put them Down Idiots like Robbie Anderson totally took the life out of our team and impowered the Brown's crowd and football team. Just like the Dumb mistakes and undisiplined play hurt us vs the Dolphins.

This is a coaching matter and our coach does not know how to stick the dagger in when you have a team on the ropes. He has no clue.

Andersons ass should have been on the bench after 2 fumbles in consecutive weeks cost us momentum. Hes not needed in a ball control scheme any how he has one move and its to run the fly route other than that hes totally and I mean totally useless

[Smashmouth]

30 minutes ago, RevisIsland610 said:

I respect the ops take on the game. Well thought out and coherent observations. I just feel that Bates has been a little too conservative with the play calling. There was one point in the game where he ran the ball to one side either 4 or 5 times in a row and a lot of the pass plays were conservative as well. There is nothing wrong with putting a few wrinkles in the game plan. What about play action instead of running to the same side multiple times in a row. I dont think there is any one part of this team that didn't play a role in the loss to some degree and that includes some of the play calling. 

Bates is doing what he needs to do. When you can't give your QB time you have to get rid of the ball quick . When you have to get rid of the ball quick that means short routes. The Patriots have made a decade of that philosophy and they do it with guys who are not exactly amazing physical football players. They do it with smarts and exceptional coaching which is completely run by Bill Belichick . We need a coach like that and we have not had one since Parcells

[ryu79]

Fully agree with OP.

Even on the first pic, not sure if Sam was obscured from seeing the additional defenders come into area by linemen that were falling into him.

[weirdbeard]

K. Roger and Bowles need to go,  those 2 seem to sink this team over and over again..

 

[Adoni Beast]

The first 2 games the playbook seemed opened up for Darnold to use fully. He looked great for the youngest rookie to ever start. 

In CLE, they limited him cause of the short week/ Cle pass rush and look at what happened. It worked in the first half but they neesed to open it up a little in the second half. 

I think Bowles conservative methods will only hold back Darnold long term. Honestly, if he had his D making stops like the OP mentions, then he can earn the right to play it safe. But his defense ALWAYS crumbles. He has no sense of the feel of the game. Whatever the gameplan is, he sticks to it. Zero adjustments since day 1. No good...