Mehta/Scott

[phill1c]

6 minutes ago, jack48 said:

Maybe you should just read box scores and not watch the actual plays, then?

Is that supposed to make it better or worse than the reality of what I watched?

[JetsYanks13]

Bart Scott's entitled to his opinion. Calling Bart Scott out in a personal attack because you don't agree with his football views... seems idiotic.

Sounds like what some people do on this site.


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[JetsYanks13]

Ok, please don't apologize for INTs because of bad routes, OL in the way, it's the end of the game, blah blah. Fair or not, INTs go on the record of the QB, can't apologize for it. because there are often INTs that didn't happen that should have.
Moreover, the notion that a mitigating reason for an INT is that it's the end of the game is absurdly pro-Darnold.
To my mind, winners throw TDs at the end of games and win them. Losers throw INTs and their teams lose, and their apologists talk about expecting INTs because it's the end of the game.
The guy is playing like a rookie, which he is. Nothing unexpected, at least by me. And, to my eye, he has more talent around him than any Jets QB since...2009 or earlier. I think it's a matter of familiarity and confidence before the unit improves. Hell, could be the next game. So, I guess excusing a few mistakes is ok but let's recognize it for what it is excuse-making.

The only playmaker he has is enunwa and Powell to an extent. Kearse has been injured, Pryor stinks and Robbie Anderson is a one trick pony who fumbles every game.
Off the top of my head, the 98 jets had much better playmakers. The list probably goes on if we look into it.


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[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

i sense some sarcasm.  it's hard to tell what side of this issue these guys are falling on.  maneesh usually starts zinging the jets at some point during unsuccessful seasons.  he's probably keeping his powder dry.  meanwhile the other guys like costello are ramping it up.  but i do agree that scott knows a thing or two about playing the game and he knows enough about the jets team to provide some good insight.

truth at start, sarcasm at end

[phill1c]

49 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

The only playmaker he has is enunwa and Powell to an extent. Kearse has been injured, Pryor stinks and Robbie Anderson is a one trick pony who fumbles every game.
Off the top of my head, the 98 jets had much better playmakers. The list probably goes on if we look into it.


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Pryor has already made some plays that somewhat invalidate your opinion as myopic. Sterling, Anderson (who has actually caught balls without fumbling, just not recently). It's not a lack of talent and it's not as if they haven't caught the majority of balls thrown to them. IMO, it's been the over cautious pass offense that values getting the ball out quickly instead of giving WRs time to make plays downfield.

The 1998 Jets had more playmakers. Well, of course they did. Is that a recent team?! Geez, I was talking about recent teams, not 20 years ago.

[phill1c]

It's not as if this team, as constituted, has been together for a long time. I think it's somewhat absurd to say this guy stinks or that guy should be cut when the entire offense has been together since 4 weeks ago.

[JetsYanks13]

Pryor has already made some plays that somewhat invalidate your opinion as myopic. Sterling, Anderson (who has actually caught balls without fumbling, just not recently). It's not a lack of talent and it's not as if they haven't caught the majority of balls thrown to them. IMO, it's been the over cautious pass offense that values getting the ball out quickly instead of giving WRs time to make plays downfield.

The 1998 Jets had more playmakers. Well, of course they did. Is that a recent team?! Geez, I was talking about recent teams, not 20 years ago.

The receivers can’t get separation off the line of scrimmage. Pryor can’t run routes, Anderson has fumbled twice in 3 games, Kearse has been injured, enunwa is a beast, sterling is descent at best. As of right now, his only legitimate target is enunwa. Things can change as season goes on, but they are hardly the most talented group of receivers out there. Also, 2010 jets had j co, Holmes and Edwards. Holmes was a Super Bowl mvp. That’s recent and better receivers.


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[JetsYanks13]

Pryor has already made some plays that somewhat invalidate your opinion as myopic. Sterling, Anderson (who has actually caught balls without fumbling, just not recently). It's not a lack of talent and it's not as if they haven't caught the majority of balls thrown to them. IMO, it's been the over cautious pass offense that values getting the ball out quickly instead of giving WRs time to make plays downfield.

The 1998 Jets had more playmakers. Well, of course they did. Is that a recent team?! Geez, I was talking about recent teams, not 20 years ago.

How about 2015, jets had Brandon Marshall, Eric decker, Kerley, Thompkins, enunwa. Much better group than 2018.


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[JetsYanks13]

It's not as if this team, as constituted, has been together for a long time. I think it's somewhat absurd to say this guy stinks or that guy should be cut when the entire offense has been together since 4 weeks ago.

How do you explain the chiefs? They are in the same position as us. The difference is Andy Reid understands how to run an offense and they have difference makers across their offense. We have shown thus far, as it can change, solid coaching (especially the head coach) or any game breakers with the exception of enunwa.


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[JetsYanks13]

How do you explain the chiefs? They are in the same position as us. The difference is Andy Reid understands how to run an offense and they have difference makers across their offense. We have shown thus far, as it can change, solid coaching (especially the head coach) or any game breakers with the exception of enunwa.


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I meant to say lack of solid coaching


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[jack48]

3 hours ago, phill1c said:

Is that supposed to make it better or worse than the reality of what I watched?

I know what you watched.  Not sure what you saw, if you just accept stats as your guideline

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, JetsYanks13 said:

The receivers can’t get separation off the line of scrimmage. Pryor can’t run routes, Anderson has fumbled twice in 3 games, Kearse has been injured, enunwa is a beast, sterling is descent at best. As of right now, his only legitimate target is enunwa. Things can change as season goes on, but they are hardly the most talented group of receivers out there. Also, 2010 jets had j co, Holmes and Edwards. Holmes was a Super Bowl mvp. That’s recent and better receivers.


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in my opinion when all of the receivers have trouble getting open then it's on the coaching.  i can't count how many times guys like gronkowski or edelman or welker would get open.  i can't remember when a jets receiver was wide open except for maybe when the back goes out on a little curl.  i think the jets do have some good receivers and anderson has to be counted here but they are being held back in an effort to protect darnold from turnovers and an oline which has been underwhelming.  as for the 2010 team, that was a good set of receivers but even they couldn't bring sanchez above the 60% mark for completions.

[phill1c]

3 hours ago, JetsYanks13 said:

The receivers can’t get separation off the line of scrimmage. Pryor can’t run routes, Anderson has fumbled twice in 3 games, Kearse has been injured, enunwa is a beast, sterling is descent at best. As of right now, his only legitimate target is enunwa

Says you. I saw ONE mistaken route run. I've seen plenty of separation. I don't have an answer for fumbles except to say that every WR who ever played for any length of time has fumbled.

Typical: negative on everything but the great hope. The WRs have played about as well as the QB, who's made rookie mistakes and looked liked yesterday's hoe when Baker Mayfield came in and showed him how to not be a bitch back there.

Again, I'm not putting all of the less-than-stellar numbers on Darnold. He's a rookie and is learning. Part of the offensive issues have to do with legitimate fear of the sack. but the QB numbers aren't all that hot and it's not all the surrounding cast at fault. Even Darnold acknowledges his play is unacceptable. Let's not stoop to finding scapegoats for his rookie learning curve.

[phill1c]

3 hours ago, JetsYanks13 said:

How do you explain the chiefs? They are in the same position as us. The difference is Andy Reid understands how to run an offense and they have difference makers across their offense. We have shown thus far, as it can change, solid coaching (especially the head coach) or any game breakers with the exception of enunwa.


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Pat Mahomes sat for a year. So, not the same.

Anderson's first catch was a 41 yard TD reception. So, I would call that a difference making play.

IMO it's myopic to say that the only difference between two football teams is their head coach. Beyond that, I'm not going to go into every facet of the myopic opinion. But I've debunked two aspects already.

Andy Reid may be a better coach than Todd Bowles. But it's been the offense and, specifically, the QB who has underwhelmed me so far. The defense is ranked in the top 10, the special teams have been effective and even dynamic with a TD and a block so far.

Protecting the QB has held the team back more than any other factor, ass-wipe TD celebration included.

[JetsYanks13]

Pat Mahomes sat for a year. So, not the same.
Anderson's first catch was a 41 yard TD reception. So, I would call that a difference making play.
IMO it's myopic to say that the only difference between two football teams is their head coach. Beyond that, I'm not going to go into every facet of the myopic opinion. But I've debunked two aspects already.
Andy Reid may be a better coach than Todd Bowles. But it's been the offense and, specifically, the QB who has underwhelmed me so far. The defense is ranked in the top 10, the special teams have been effective and even dynamic with a TD and a block so far.
Protecting the QB has held the team back more than any other factor, ass-wipe TD celebration included.

1. Pat Mahomes did sit last year, but took little if any 1st team reps. You said we had 4 weeks of offense to prepare and that’s why I pointed out the chiefs. Mahomes at the helm with their offense had the same amount of time as the jets.

2. Anderson made 1 difference making play and I stated difference making players

3 Chiefs playmakers are: Kelce, hunt, hill , Watkins. Our guys collectively are not even in the same universe as those guys.

4. Andy is better than Bowles as a head coach and it’s not even close. Reid is a top 5 HC and Bowles is bottom 5. There is a chance Bowles grows as a coach and one day be a top 5 coach, but it doesn’t look that way.

5. The offense has in fact underwhelmed and yes the quarterback takes some blame for it. But, he has little support (Anderson 2 fumbles, Pryor doesn’t know how to run routes, Kearse hurt, Herndon dropped passes) the o-line has been shaky at best and does not compete at an nfl level. He is not playing like Nathan Peterson from the bills throwing for 24 yards and 5 picks in one game. In my opinion, darnold has 3 legitamate picks. I understand they all count, but bad routes and garbage time is not on him. The kid will learn and grow and will be here longer than any of the other players on offense.

6. Top 10 defense means nothing as wins and losses. That’s straight out of Rex Ryan’s priorities. He always spoke about that and was laughed at by fans and media alike. We just want wins and a championship. Also, it’s early in the season and after 3 games lots of things can and will change.

7. It’s a long season, and there is lots of room to grow for all. I hope Bowles can step up and become a great coach. Along with darnold and the offense. Maby we don’t lose another game. But, at this moment right now, our team lacks playmakers, o-line effectiveness, head coach in game management and adjustments, disciplined defensive players and accountability.



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[phill1c]

3 hours ago, JetsYanks13 said:

How about 2015, jets had Brandon Marshall, Eric decker, Kerley, Thompkins, enunwa. Much better group than 2018.

Comparable, but hardly all that better. Brandon Marshall about equal to Pryor, Sterling and Herndon comparable to Decker, who gives a **** about Kerley or Thompkins, who made a handful of plays at the end of the year.

IMO this team's receivers have at least the same potential as the group you mention. Whether the rookie can get that production out of them remains to be seen. I'm all for joining the Darnold Apologist Club, please let me know how to sign up. What are the dues? do you have to believe that every QB mistake is someone else's fault?

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

1. Pat Mahomes did sit last year, but took little if any 1st team reps. You said we had 4 weeks of offense to prepare and that’s why I pointed out the chiefs. Mahomes at the helm with their offense had the same amount of time as the jets.

2. Anderson made 1 difference making play and I stated difference making players

3 Chiefs playmakers are: Kelce, hunt, hill , Watkins. Our guys collectively are not even in the same universe as those guys.

4. Andy is better than Bowles as a head coach and it’s not even close. Reid is a top 5 HC and Bowles is bottom 5. There is a chance Bowles grows as a coach and one day be a top 5 coach, but it doesn’t look that way.

5. The offense has in fact underwhelmed and yes the quarterback takes some blame for it. But, he has little support (Anderson 2 fumbles, Pryor doesn’t know how to run routes, Kearse hurt, Herndon dropped passes) the o-line has been shaky at best and does not compete at an nfl level. He is not playing like Nathan Peterson from the bills throwing for 24 yards and 5 picks in one game. In my opinion, darnold has 3 legitamate picks. I understand they all count, but bad routes and garbage time is not on him. The kid will learn and grow and will be here longer than any of the other players on offense.

6. Top 10 defense means nothing as wins and losses. That’s straight out of Rex Ryan’s priorities. He always spoke about that and was laughed at by fans and media alike. We just want wins and a championship. Also, it’s early in the season and after 3 games lots of things can and will change.

7. It’s a long season, and there is lots of room to grow for all. I hope Bowles can step up and become a great coach. Along with darnold and the offense. Maby we don’t lose another game. But, at this moment right now, our team lacks playmakers, o-line effectiveness, head coach in game management and adjustments, disciplined defensive players and accountability.



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a seven point post tests my ability to rebut all in one. I'll go with the points I'd like to dispute vehemently first:

1. Pat Mahomes Did sit. So, any other point is bullsh*t. You said they were "the same" and they aren't.

6. Top ten defenses don't mean anything. The single stupidest part of your post. Of coure it does. It means that they are playing at a high level and that the Jets would probably have at least one more win than they do if the offense had held up its own. Please don't say you actually believe that playing good defense doesn't mean anything.

4. Andy Reid is a better coach. Ok, maybe. Let Andy Reid come and coach the Jets and see what his record would be. Andy Reid paid his dues and lost his share of games early on in his career. Now, he can coach any team he wants and he wants to coach teams with elite talent, which the Jets since Todd Bowles has been coach (and even several years before) have not enjoyed. Comparing Apples to Oranges here.

3. Chiefs playmakers are: Kelce, hunt, hill , Watkins: Who? I know Watkins and I know he's hardly been all that in Buffalo, who got rid of him because he really didn't produce there. The Chiefs have playmakers because Mahomes is getting them the ball in position to make plays. Do you see how your criticism of the playmaking can easily be extended to the QB, the guy expected to put them in playmaking position?

[JetsYanks13]

Says you. I saw ONE mistaken route run. I've seen plenty of separation. I don't have an answer for fumbles except to say that every WR who ever played for any length of time has fumbled.
Typical: negative on everything but the great hope. The WRs have played about as well as the QB, who's made rookie mistakes and looked liked yesterday's hoe when Baker Mayfield came in and showed him how to not be a bitch back there.

Again, I'm not putting all of the less-than-stellar numbers on Darnold. He's a rookie and is learning. Part of the offensive issues have to do with legitimate fear of the sack. but the QB numbers aren't all that hot and it's not all the surrounding cast at fault. Even Darnold acknowledges his play is unacceptable. Let's not stoop to finding scapegoats for his rookie learning curve.

Sam is wise beyond his years thus far as has accepted responsibility for mistakes that are not even his.

Scapegoat- Pryor said in the postgame, the pick was on him. The sny postgame crew said the same exact thing. He also ran a poor route on another play that was almost picked. He also let a ball go through his hands in the dolphins game. Robbie’s 2 fumbles can not be ignored. They were both back breakers in each game. Herndon doesnt understand situational football to get out of bounds and let a guy 60 pounds lighter than him stop him from scoring. The last 2 games, the offensive line has been bullied and beaten down into submission. They survived the lions game because ansah got injured. Darnold gets blame as well, but to say we’re using the other guys as scapegoats is a NO.

Mayfield played a little more than a half of football. He throws a laser, but to crown him now is a bit premature. His o-line gave him plenty of time and our defense (according to some) tired out. He also has a short field for first td and second one our defense tired/folded like a cheap suit. That’s on Bowles/Rodgers not darnold or offense. Also, the jets stopped blitzing and let him sit back there and pick us apart. Their careers will forever be linked, but I think it’s a bit early to say one will have a better career than the other.

The quarterback who plays like a b:tch back there in Tom Brady (goat) I hate him as much As the next jets fan, but he goes down in face of pressure. Darnold steps up to make a throw or scrambles to extend plays and find a receiver.


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[phill1c]

8 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

Sam is wise beyond his years thus far as has accepted responsibility for mistakes that are not even his.

Scapegoat- Pryor said in the postgame, the pick was on him. The sny postgame crew said the same exact thing. He also ran a poor route on another play that was almost picked. He also let a ball go through his hands in the dolphins game. Robbie’s 2 fumbles can not be ignored. They were both back breakers in each game. Herndon doesnt understand situational football to get out of bounds and let a guy 60 pounds lighter than him stop him from scoring. The last 2 games, the offensive line has been bullied and beaten down into submission. They survived the lions game because ansah got injured. Darnold gets blame as well, but to say we’re using the other guys as scapegoats is a NO.

Mayfield played a little more than a half of football. He throws a laser, but to crown him now is a bit premature. His o-line gave him plenty of time and our defense (according to some) tired out. He also has a short field for first td and second one our defense tired/folded like a cheap suit. That’s on Bowles/Rodgers not darnold or offense. Also, the jets stopped blitzing and let him sit back there and pick us apart. Their careers will forever be linked, but I think it’s a bit early to say one will have a better career than the other.

The quarterback who plays like a b:tch back there in Tom Brady (goat) I hate him as much As the next jets fan, but he goes down in face of pressure. Darnold steps up to make a throw or scrambles to extend plays and find a receiver.


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Darnold is my QB, but I'm not going to pretend like he hasn't played way below the hype, here and elsewhere, the last two games.

I'm putting most of the 'blame' on conservatism. It's a persistent issue with the Jets offense that I thought was going to be absent when Darnold was the starter. But it's not. It's the same conservatism that values running over scoring. As long as that is the mindset, the jets offense will resemble what it's looked like this season so far and last season and the season before that.

Also, it's a little disingenuous to say Jets receivers aren't getting separation when the QB is locking onto Enunwa pretty much exclusively and they run the WR screen pretty much every offensive series. I feel like the Jets have the most talented corps of receivers in recent memory, the absence of pro-bowler Kenbrell Thompkins notwithstanding.

[14 in Green]

21 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

1. Pat Mahomes did sit last year, but took little if any 1st team reps. You said we had 4 weeks of offense to prepare and that’s why I pointed out the chiefs. Mahomes at the helm with their offense had the same amount of time as the jets.

2. Anderson made 1 difference making play and I stated difference making players

3 Chiefs playmakers are: Kelce, hunt, hill , Watkins. Our guys collectively are not even in the same universe as those guys.

4. Andy is better than Bowles as a head coach and it’s not even close. Reid is a top 5 HC and Bowles is bottom 5. There is a chance Bowles grows as a coach and one day be a top 5 coach, but it doesn’t look that way.

5. The offense has in fact underwhelmed and yes the quarterback takes some blame for it. But, he has little support (Anderson 2 fumbles, Pryor doesn’t know how to run routes, Kearse hurt, Herndon dropped passes) the o-line has been shaky at best and does not compete at an nfl level. He is not playing like Nathan Peterson from the bills throwing for 24 yards and 5 picks in one game. In my opinion, darnold has 3 legitamate picks. I understand they all count, but bad routes and garbage time is not on him. The kid will learn and grow and will be here longer than any of the other players on offense.

6. Top 10 defense means nothing as wins and losses. That’s straight out of Rex Ryan’s priorities. He always spoke about that and was laughed at by fans and media alike. We just want wins and a championship. Also, it’s early in the season and after 3 games lots of things can and will change.

7. It’s a long season, and there is lots of room to grow for all. I hope Bowles can step up and become a great coach. Along with darnold and the offense. Maby we don’t lose another game. But, at this moment right now, our team lacks playmakers, o-line effectiveness, head coach in game management and adjustments, disciplined defensive players and accountability.



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I'm getting sick and tired of guys complaining about the OL, and the WR's and everything else we supposedly don't have.  We have more then enough talent on this team to be playing better then we are. Look at the Bills today. The WORST OL in the league, a rookie QB, no supposed talent anywhere on the field. They go into Minnesota and blow out the Vikings. The problem with the Jets is the coaches and the players have to man up and get the effing job done. Oh, and BTW, Darnold can, and should be better then he's been so far. It's not all on the OC. We're willing to be patient, because we have no choice, but stop with the excuses for him. 

[phill1c]

btw, the myth that Darnold is wise beyond his years has pretty much been debunked. He's as wise as his experience is. Note these stats:

3rd in passing yards

32nd in QB rating.

3 TDs and 5 INTs.

IMO, not the worst but definitely needs improvement. 

[14 in Green]

22 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

Sam is wise beyond his years thus far as has accepted responsibility for mistakes that are not even his.

Scapegoat- Pryor said in the postgame, the pick was on him. The sny postgame crew said the same exact thing. He also ran a poor route on another play that was almost picked. He also let a ball go through his hands in the dolphins game. Robbie’s 2 fumbles can not be ignored. They were both back breakers in each game. Herndon doesnt understand situational football to get out of bounds and let a guy 60 pounds lighter than him stop him from scoring. The last 2 games, the offensive line has been bullied and beaten down into submission. They survived the lions game because ansah got injured. Darnold gets blame as well, but to say we’re using the other guys as scapegoats is a NO.

Mayfield played a little more than a half of football. He throws a laser, but to crown him now is a bit premature. His o-line gave him plenty of time and our defense (according to some) tired out. He also has a short field for first td and second one our defense tired/folded like a cheap suit. That’s on Bowles/Rodgers not darnold or offense. Also, the jets stopped blitzing and let him sit back there and pick us apart. Their careers will forever be linked, but I think it’s a bit early to say one will have a better career than the other.

The quarterback who plays like a b:tch back there in Tom Brady (goat) I hate him as much As the next jets fan, but he goes down in face of pressure. Darnold steps up to make a throw or scrambles to extend plays and find a receiver.


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OMG that last paragraph just blew any credibility you had. To even hint Darnold does ANYTHING better then Brady, even in his forties, is beyond ridiculous. (and that's as politely as I can put it).

[JetsYanks13]

Comparable, but hardly all that better. Brandon Marshall about equal to Pryor, Sterling and Herndon comparable to Decker, who gives a **** about Kerley or Thompkins, who made a handful of plays at the end of the year.

IMO this team's receivers have at least the same potential as the group you mention. Whether the rookie can get that production out of them remains to be seen. I'm all for joining the Darnold Apologist Club, please let me know how to sign up. What are the dues? do you have to believe that every QB mistake is someone else's fault?

1. Brandon Marshall-1,500 yards, 109 receptions, 14 TD’s- you want to compare that to Pryor, then end the discussion now. Marshall is a borderline hall of gamer. Decker was about 1,000 yards each season- don’t think Herndon and sterling are collectively getting there. although 2 guys doing what 1 guy did is not impressive to say the least.

2. I’m not an apologist, but I believe in Darnolds ability. Of course, he takes some blame, but so do his supporting staff or lack there of. Right now, his receivers except enunwa, are mistake prown and ineffective. I am rooting for Robbie to break out, Pryor to catch and figure out route running and Kearse to get healthy.



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[14 in Green]

12 minutes ago, phill1c said:

btw, the myth that Darnold is wise beyond his years has pretty much been debunked. He's as wise as his experience is. Note these stats:

3rd in passing yards

32nd in QB rating.

3 TDs and 5 INTs.

IMO, not the worst but definitely needs improvement. 

All you had to do was stop at the Darnold Apologist Club remark. You won. This "wise beyond his years" "best player on the field" stuff is unreal here. I want Sam to be great as much as anyone. But if you listen to some guys here, he's single handedly fighting a heroic battle against each team we play.

[phill1c]

1 minute ago, JetsYanks13 said:

2. I’m not an apologist, but I believe in Darnolds ability. Of course, he takes some blame, but so do his supporting staff or lack there of. Right now, his receivers except enunwa, are mistake prown and ineffective. I am rooting for Robbie to break out, Pryor to catch and figure out route running and Kearse to get healthy.
 

Nonsense. His receivers are fine. I would say Darnold is mistake-prone and ineffective. When the receivers get the ball they make yards. It's getting them the ball that is the issue, and that is Darnold's responsibility.

You absolutely ARE a Darnold Apologist. He's the 32nd ranked passer. Even McCown with a lesser cast was better than that.

[JetsYanks13]

Darnold is my QB, but I'm not going to pretend like he hasn't played way below the hype, here and elsewhere, the last two games.

I'm putting most of the 'blame' on conservatism. It's a persistent issue with the Jets offense that I thought was going to be absent when Darnold was the starter. But it's not. It's the same conservatism that values running over scoring. As long as that is the mindset, the jets offense will resemble what it's looked like this season so far and last season and the season before that.

Also, it's a little disingenuous to say Jets receivers aren't getting separation when the QB is locking onto Enunwa pretty much exclusively and they run the WR screen pretty much every offensive series. I feel like the Jets have the most talented corps of receivers in recent memory, the absence of pro-bowler Kenbrell Thompkins notwithstanding.

Yes, the offense looks scaled back for whatever reason, rookie quarterback/tough defenses whatever. He throws to enunwa cause he is a matchup nightmare for opposing defenses. Emunwa is a tight end in a wide receivers body. He also catches all his passes and gets open. I was defending the receiving corps before the season started, but they have been disappointing as of right now. The next game, maby the scenario changes and that’s what I’m rooting for. The running game is a quarterbacks best friend, especially a rookie so they must pound the rock. This is when you mix in play action, but the o-line is unable to give him time to find a target.


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[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

All you had to do was stop at the Darnold Apologist Club remark. You won. This "wise beyond his years" "best player on the field" stuff is unreal here. I want Sam to be great as much as anyone. But if you listen to some guys here, he's heroically fighting a battle single handedly against each team we play.

the Jets have an improved team, IMO. The special teams deserve great praise. So, it's not at all Sam Darnold fighting single-handedly. And I believe Darnold will be everything we need him to be. But in the game the Jets won it was the special teams and defense that led the way.

[14 in Green]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

the Jets have an improved team, IMO. The special teams deserve great praise. So, it's not at all Sam Darnold fighting single-handedly. And I believe Darnold will be everything we need him to be. But in the game the Jets won it was the special teams and defense that led the way.

That's what I'm saying too. But jeez, people have to stop blaming every mistake Darnold makes on someone else. It's ok if he screws up sometimes, he's learning on the fly. We don't expect him to be perfect.

[phill1c]

2 minutes ago, JetsYanks13 said:

He also catches all his passes and gets open.

It's pretty easy to be open on a WR screen, with another receiver blocking for you. I feel like the talent to be open is there. All these guys have size and/or speed. The TE position seems talented too.

I believe the issue is the same as it perennially is: an OL that does not inspire confidence, hence the scaled back passing offense. WRs aren't given time to be open because the plays called all are about getting the ball out early. And then there's the always running at least once during a set of downs.

What I don't believe the Jets brain trust understands is that you need to be aggressive to get a defense on its heels. You can't just be predictable and expect to win the battles, especially when the OL talent is not elite.

[JetsYanks13]

a seven point post tests my ability to rebut all in one. I'll go with the points I'd like to dispute vehemently first:
1. Pat Mahomes Did sit. So, any other point is bullsh*t. You said they were "the same" and they aren't.
6. Top ten defenses don't mean anything. The single stupidest part of your post. Of coure it does. It means that they are playing at a high level and that the Jets would probably have at least one more win than they do if the offense had held up its own. Please don't say you actually believe that playing good defense doesn't mean anything.

4. Andy Reid is a better coach. Ok, maybe. Let Andy Reid come and coach the Jets and see what his record would be. Andy Reid paid his dues and lost his share of games early on in his career. Now, he can coach any team he wants and he wants to coach teams with elite talent, which the Jets since Todd Bowles has been coach (and even several years before) have not enjoyed. Comparing Apples to Oranges here.
3. Chiefs playmakers are: Kelce, hunt, hill , Watkins: Who? I know Watkins and I know he's hardly been all that in Buffalo, who got rid of him because he really didn't produce there. The Chiefs have playmakers because Mahomes is getting them the ball in position to make plays. Do you see how your criticism of the playmaking can easily be extended to the QB, the guy expected to put them in playmaking position?

1. Yes, but he did not play at all last year with the 1st team offense. Mahomes had OTA’s and some work last year with the chiefs main playmakers, but he was handed the job this season and had to build chemistry with all his receivers.

6. Top 10 defenses is a statistic. Winning the Super Bowl is the goal. It’s so early in the season, we can go up and down with the rankings. The jags lost 9-6 today and they are 2–1. The pats had the 28th ranked defense in 2017 and won the Super Bowl. I think a few of there teams were not too 10 defenses. Rex Ryan cared about that stuff and that’s why he’s not here or has a job.

4. Andy Reid is a BETTER COACH. This is not even debatable. He has been to a super bowl and has led 2 franchises to several winning seasons and multiple playoff appearances. His playoff coaching is another story, but Bowles has no playoffs. Also, he got the world out of TO on a broken leg in that super bowl and almost won it. He went to KC because he wanted a stable organization which were not at the time. When he got there, there was no Mahomes, not sure about the other guys. He clearly puts his stamp on that team and has an eye for talent and understands how to run an offense. Every nfl coach is compatible, just the nature of the job. There are no excuses for any coach.

3. If you don’t know Hill and Kelce, then you don’t watch football. The chiefs right now have the most explosive offense in the nfl because of those guys. Those guys are lightning quick and explosive. Andy Reid was smart enough to draft strong armed mahomes who can sling the ball all over the field and deep to his playmakers. This is where management and coaching comes into play. Our guys collectively shouldn’t even be on the same field as those guys.


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[JetsYanks13]

It's pretty easy to be open on a WR screen, with another receiver blocking for you. I feel like the talent to be open is there. All these guys have size and/or speed. The TE position seems talented too.
I believe the issue is the same as it perennially is: an OL that does not inspire confidence, hence the scaled back passing offense. WRs aren't given time to be open because the plays called all are about getting the ball out early. And then there's the always running at least once during a set of downs.
What I don't believe the Jets brain trust understands is that you need to be aggressive to get a defense on its heels. You can't just be predictable and expect to win the battles, especially when the OL talent is not elite.

It’s actually difficult to throw a wide receiver screen. The pass can easily picked off for a pick 6. This is why you have to trust your quarterback and receiver, hence enunwa. The ball also has to be placed perfectly, with zip and the quarterback has to throw it immediately.

Next, another receiver is not allowed to block for you before the reception. You can run a pick play, but have to be careful because that’s a flag as well.

The receivers are being jammed at the line of scrimmage and can’t create separation.

The west coast offense consists of mostly short and intermediate passes. Without throwing deep here and there, defenses sit short and thus offense gets stagnant.


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[JetsYanks13]

OMG that last paragraph just blew any credibility you had. To even hint Darnold does ANYTHING better then Brady, even in his forties, is beyond ridiculous. (and that's as politely as I can put it).

I was not comparing darnold to Brady. The other poster stated darnold goes down like a bitch in the pocket. That’s when I responded, Brady who is GOAT does down like a bitch instead of taking a sack. Read the post.


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[JetsYanks13]

Nonsense. His receivers are fine. I would say Darnold is mistake-prone and ineffective. When the receivers get the ball they make yards. It's getting them the ball that is the issue, and that is Darnold's responsibility.
You absolutely ARE a Darnold Apologist. He's the 32nd ranked passer. Even McCown with a lesser cast was better than that.

Do you watch the games? What are you talking about? The jets are ranked 22nd as a team in YAC. That’s right, I love darnold and am thrilled he’s a Jet. I have no problem blaming him when warranted, but I’m not throwing him under or bus or blaming him for other guys failures. I call it like I see it.


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[phill1c]

1 hour ago, JetsYanks13 said:

It’s actually difficult to throw a wide receiver screen. The pass can easily picked off for a pick 6. This is why you have to trust your quarterback and receiver, hence enunwa. The ball also has to be placed perfectly, with zip and the quarterback has to throw it immediately.

Next, another receiver is not allowed to block for you before the reception. You can run a pick play, but have to be careful because that’s a flag as well.

The receivers are being jammed at the line of scrimmage and can’t create separation.

The west coast offense consists of mostly short and intermediate passes. Without throwing deep here and there, defenses sit short and thus offense gets stagnant.


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Thanks for the pedantic explanation of a WR screen and how 'difficult' it is followed up with a the notion that a WC offense can't be imaginative and not prone to the quarters-long stagnation plaguing the Jets in the last two games.

Newsflash: most offenses are mostly short and intermediate passes.

Anyway I'm not sure what we're arguing here. The offense has been the weak link. I think the other units have played better than last year. The offense, about the same as last year, which, given Darnold's potential is probably ok...for now.

It's a shame, really, that the defensive and special teams improvements are being lost because people have to defend Darnold.

[phill1c]

1 hour ago, JetsYanks13 said:

Do you watch the games? What are you talking about? The jets are ranked 22nd as a team in YAC. That’s right, I love darnold and am thrilled he’s a Jet. I have no problem blaming him when warranted, but I’m not throwing him under or bus or blaming him for other guys failures. I call it like I see it.


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Yeah, dude, I watch the games. Do you even know what you're watching? I think there's a calculus you haven't considered. For instance, if the ball is late, you're not going to have much YAC. And even Darnold himself has said he's not processing as fast as he needs to. But, to be sure, if the playbook is mostly short, risk-averse passing, the ceiling for the offense is going to be low, no matter who is QB. So, IMO, the playcalling and philosophy is a hinderance not really a help to developing a QB. 

Geez, nobody is throwing anyone under a bus. At 1-2, there's no bus to be thrown under. But he's not playing at an elite level and the assertions that all these other players are the problem when they aren't ranked 32nd in a 32-team league is kinda homerific isn't it?