Man... Sam really let it rip week 2

[nico002]

That 1920s gameplay from last week was bizarre.

Rewatch the throws Sam made week 2. The arm strength questions are frankly RIDICULOUS. Kid was spinning it all over he field. His velocity on some of those 10-15 yards throws is awesome.

Could have easily been a 400 yard multi TD game if not for a couple of drops.

Hope we see more of this going forward from Bates.

 

[14 in Green]

Stop beating a dead horse His INTs cost us the game. Period. 

[nico002]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Stop. His INTs cost us the game. Period. 

Dude I don’t give a **** about the outcome of the game. I’m enjoying this season watching the development of our 21 year old franchise qb. If you can’t appreciate the stuff he showed in this game... I don’t know what to tell ya....

[14 in Green]

How much did you enjoy him developing Thursday? C'mon. We all want him to develop. We're Jets fans. But he's been stuck in neutral since the Detroit game. Hopefully he gets it going again in Jacksonville. 

[ryu79]

46 minutes ago, nico002 said:

That 1920s gameplay from last week was bizarre.

Rewatch the throws Sam made week 2. The arm strength questions are frankly RIDICULOUS. Kid was spinning it all over he field. His velocity on some of those 10-15 yards throws is awesome.

Could have easily been a 400 yard multi TD game if not for a couple of drops.

Hope we see more of this going forward from Bates.

 

Thank you. Vid doesn't work for me but agree that Sam goes over 400 or damn close if it weren't for some awful drops in the Miami game.

[kdels62]

By my count Darnold went:

9/15 for 1 Int with 2 dropped passes in passes that traveled at least 10 yards in the air with 3 of those passes coming in the end of the half 2 minute drill.

7-13 on passes that went 15 yards or more in the air with 2 drops (Technically the Pryor int went more than 10 yards from the LOS but it’s in the end zone). However, of these passes 2 completions were on designed roll outs and 2 were on scrambles.  

3 completions came during 2 minute drill.

1 pass from the pocket went outside the numbers. (Bad sign for arm strength and it’s consistent with his MO from college) 

0 completions were corner routes, 1 completion was a post route, 0 completions were go routes.

Once with a clean pocket Darnold abandoned the pocket and his progressions and missed a wide open receiver for a would be touchdown.

He didn’t really light up anything downfield and for now the game plan against him is to force him to go downfield because he hasn’t shown the ability to do it.

[Smashmouth]

5 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Stop beating a dead horse His INTs cost us the game. Period. 

what cost us the game was the momentum changing Robbie Anderson fumble and our defensive minded head coach have no damn answer for a rookie QB.

[jetsons]

6 hours ago, nico002 said:

That 1920s gameplay from last week was bizarre.

Rewatch the throws Sam made week 2. The arm strength questions are frankly RIDICULOUS. Kid was spinning it all over he field. His velocity on some of those 10-15 yards throws is awesome.

Could have easily been a 400 yard multi TD game if not for a couple of drops.

Hope we see more of this going forward from Bates.

 

really??? 10-15yd throws???... I hope you’re joking ?

[Scoop24]

  damn this board is toxic as hell . Darnold having his ups and downs like any other rookie QB. And the way some of you act is like the kid is already a bust..

omg he threw a interception. Sky is falling ??

[nico002]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

really??? 10-15yd throws???... I hope you’re joking ?

Yea... a 15 yard throw on a line. Meaning it probably traveled 20-25 in the air. Do you know anything about football?

[HawkeyeJet]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

really??? 10-15yd throws???... I hope you’re joking ?

I am not exactly sure what you are trying say here, but it's worth noting the average NFL pass travels around 9-10 yards in the air.

So to disregard arm strength for those throws would seem quite foolish.

[nico002]

7 hours ago, kdels62 said:

By my count Darnold went:

9/15 for 1 Int with 2 dropped passes in passes that traveled at least 10 yards in the air with 3 of those passes coming in the end of the half 2 minute drill.

7-13 on passes that went 15 yards or more in the air with 2 drops (Technically the Pryor int went more than 10 yards from the LOS but it’s in the end zone). However, of these passes 2 completions were on designed roll outs and 2 were on scrambles.  

3 completions came during 2 minute drill.

1 pass from the pocket went outside the numbers. (Bad sign for arm strength and it’s consistent with his MO from college) 

0 completions were corner routes, 1 completion was a post route, 0 completions were go routes.

Once with a clean pocket Darnold abandoned the pocket and his progressions and missed a wide open receiver for a would be touchdown.

He didn’t really light up anything downfield and for now the game plan against him is to force him to go downfield because he hasn’t shown the ability to do it.

... darnolds best attribute is getting out of the pocket and making plays... you’re gonna critize that? Not many guys can do what he does on the run, it’s special.

What throw outside the numbers do you want to see? Typically those are more lob style throws that don’t require arm strength. He threw one week 1 to Robby that was pretty good. What about the 15 yard outs he’s thrown in most games? They say that’s the hardest throw to make right?

noodle Fitzpatrick is lighting it up down field... you’re associating two things that aren’t necessarily related (arm strength and downfield passing). 

A howizter arm is most useful for 10-25 yard throws, to rip it in there before a closing defender 

[14 in Green]

Nobody is saying Darnold should be perfect at this point in his career. There isn't one Jets fan who doesn't want to see him develop into a franchise QB. Nobody is questioning his character, or his work ethic. But you guys have to stop pretending he's been the star of this team so far. He was great in game 1, Game 3 vs Cleveland he was terrible. Game 2, we lost by 8 points, Darnold's two INT's cost us 14 points. The defense was the only reason the game was close. Accept the fact he's going to be bad sometimes, even cost us a game or two. Just don't expect everyone to buy into the "Sam's been great, everyone else keeps letting him down" narrative. It hasn't been the case so far. And please, don't try and convince people his bad performances were actually good. You can always find a positive somewhere if you want in any game, and that's fine. We'll take some positives each game, and just hope he learns from his mistakes going forward. Just have to be patient, and realistic.

[nico002]

51 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Nobody is saying Darnold should be perfect at this point in his career. There isn't one Jets fan who doesn't want to see him develop into a franchise QB. Nobody is questioning his character, or his work ethic. But you guys have to stop pretending he's been the star of this team so far. He was great in game 1, Game 3 vs Cleveland he was terrible. Game 2, we lost by 8 points, Darnold's two INT's cost us 14 points. The defense was the only reason the game was close. Accept the fact he's going to be bad sometimes, even cost us a game or two. Just don't expect everyone to buy into the "Sam's been great, everyone else keeps letting him down" narrative. It hasn't been the case so far. And please, don't try and convince people his bad performances were actually good. You can always find a positive somewhere if you want in any game, and that's fine. We'll take some positives each game, and just hope he learns from his mistakes going forward. Just have to be patient, and realistic.

You’re being irrational

You know well that the end zone pick week 2 was not his fault l- yet you keep saying his two picks cost us the game... what’s your agenda?

The narrative that he was bad week 2 is just overly simplistic and reactionary to the result of the game. Sam was without a doubt the best player on the field against Miami... he showed special traits. Yea he made a mistake, the defender made a great play- all quarterbacks throw picks...

its the society we live in though... everything is extreme. I thought Sam was much better week 2 than week 1.. yet people were putting him in canton week 1 and saying he has a bad game week 2. Just reactions to the outcomes of games.

Take Baker for example... if we recover his fumble, or if Middleton holds on the ball... the browns lose and Baker is labeled as reckless. We need to read between the lines here instead of just reacting to the most basic outcomes...

Sam has thrown three bad picks this year... Detroit, Miami #1, and Cle 1. No one is saying he’s perfect.. but he’s 21 and showing great things... if you can’t get excited about that then I feel sorry for you.

[14 in Green]

You think I'm being irrational, I think you're being delusional, LOL. At the end of the day though, we BOTH think Sam will be fine, and we are BOTH willing to be patient and enjoy watching him progress. As far as his performance the last 2 weeks, lets just agree to disagree. What he's done so far is already done. It's all about what he does going forward.

[CTM]

31 minutes ago, nico002 said:

You’re being irrational

You know well that the end zone pick week 2 was not his fault l- yet you keep saying his two picks cost us the game... what’s your agenda?

The narrative that he was bad week 2 is just overly simplistic and reactionary to the result of the game. Sam was without a doubt the best player on the field against Miami... he showed special traits. Yea he made a mistake, the defender made a great play- all quarterbacks throw picks...

its the society we live in though... everything is extreme. I thought Sam was much better week 2 than week 1.. yet people were putting him in canton week 1 and saying he has a bad game week 2. Just reactions to the outcomes of games.

Take Baker for example... if we recover his fumble, or if Middleton holds on the ball... the browns lose and Baker is labeled as reckless. We need to read between the lines here instead of just reacting to the most basic outcomes...

Sam has thrown three bad picks this year... Detroit, Miami #1, and Cle 1. No one is saying he’s perfect.. but he’s 21 and showing great things... if you can’t get excited about that then I feel sorry for you.

Why are you so invested in a making sure fans don't lose faith in Darnold? I don't get it.

It's a small minority with expressing some questions about him that have always been there and a few trolls. Ultimately it's meaningless. Sam has a lot of work to do if he ever wants to be a top flight QB. That was true last year, last month and last week. This wasn't a flawless prospect by any stretch with some ugly game tape and some advanced stats suggesting it's more likely he busts than excels.

[nico002]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

Why are you so invested in a making sure fans don't lose faith in Darnold? I don't get it.

It's a small minority with expressing some questions about him that have always been there and a few trolls. Ultimately it's meaningless. Sam has a lot of work to do if he ever wants to be a top flight QB. That was true last year, last month and last week. This wasn't a flawless prospect by any stretch with some ugly game tape and some advanced stats suggesting it's more likely he busts than excels.

I’m not... I’m just excited that this kid is on the Jets. I’ve never been excited about our QB in 20+ years.

this season from day 1 has been about seeing and evaluating Darnold... that’s what I’m interested in talking about.

hard for me not to respond to trolls trying to ruin my mood 

hes not flawless but he’s the best college qb I’ve seen since luck.. you may disagree but have been praying to the football gods for 2 years

 

[ASH1962]

10 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

How much did you enjoy him developing Thursday? C'mon. We all want him to develop. We're Jets fans. But he's been stuck in neutral since the Detroit game. Hopefully he gets it going again in Jacksonville. 

I would wager a bunch that his being stuck in conservative is not altogether his fault considering the CS. I expressed concerns way before we ever drafted a QB that this CS may not have the ability to properly coach up a rookie QB the right way. If my fears are realized, we are in for a real tumultuous next few years, actually, same as the last few years unfortunately. Just have to hope Sam's talent leads him to elite status despite his HC's always being scared and afraid of everything. Have to admit, I have seen some real good things that make me hope he will develop basically on his own and with Josh's help, despite Bowles.

[Barry McCockinner]

I think Sam is going to be fine but if you don't think the Jags are going to load up the box and challenge him to beat them you're fooling yourself.  It worked for the Browns and it's a copycat league. Until he shows a reason why teams shouldn't attack us that way it will be on repeat mode.

[Freemanm]

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Stop beating a dead horse His INTs cost us the game. Period. 

We knew his INTs were going to be an issue when we drafted him. He's a gunslinger who isn't afraid to go downfield. Now all he needs is a few guys who catch the ball as opposed to dropping it

[CTM]

14 minutes ago, nico002 said:

I’m not... I’m just excited that this kid is on the Jets. I’ve never been excited about our QB in 20+ years.

this season from day 1 has been about seeing and evaluating Darnold... that’s what I’m interested in talking about.

hard for me not to respond to trolls trying to ruin my mood 

hes not flawless but he’s the best college qb I’ve seen since luck.. you may disagree but have been praying to the football gods for 2 years

 

Our QB situation has been terrible since Namath. I agree that Sam is the best prospect we've had since then as well. 

But there's going to be a lot of ups and down, he needs a lot of work

[nico002]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think Sam is going to be fine but if you don't think the Jags are going to load up the box and challenge him to beat them you're fooling yourself.  It worked for the Browns and it's a copycat league. Until he shows a reason why teams shouldn't attack us that way it will be on repeat mode.

I hope they do that... we’ve faced 8 man boxes just 13 times all season.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, nico002 said:

I hope they do that... we’ve faced 8 man boxes just 13 times all season.

Where are you getting that stat? I didn't keep track but it seemed like we saw 8+ man boxes at least 13 times vs the browns.

[Greensleeves]

11 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Stop beating a dead horse His INTs cost us the game. Period. 

Sorry, but that is plain wrong. If Pryor didn't give up on his route in the end zone we could win that game. Sam had one pick and if receivers hold onto the ball he has over 400 yards. 

[nico002]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Where are you getting that stat? I didn't keep track but it seemed like we saw 8+ man boxes at least 13 times vs the browns.

Cimini broke it down in a new article. Jets have faces 13 8+ man boxes and ran it every time... 

against the browns everyone was dropping into zone and they were getting pressure with 4 guys. It’s why we ran the ball so well 

[Sperm Edwards]

I’m not worried about his arm strength. Unless you actually believe his velocity would be put to shame by the likes of Fitz, Brees, Pennington, etc. he has more than enough arm. There are reasons that a throw might have an arc to it that don’t automatically mean there’s some innate lack of arm strength.

[UntouchableCrew]

In fairness Darnold put up some numbers because we were down big and the Dolphins played off a little bit. But he definitely made some nice throws and wasn't really helped out by the rest of the offense.

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, CTM said:

Our QB situation has been terrible since Namath. I agree that Sam is the best prospect we've had since then as well. 

But there's going to be a lot of ups and down, he needs a lot of work

Totally, this.

He’s 3 games into his career and these things are fixable with time, but here are the big 3 for me:

1.  The situational awareness. Most obviously, 1st and 10 with 3 TOs and ~2 min left is more time than they need to march downfield. No reason to force it into triple coverage there. He’s still just a baby yet in QB terms, so it wouldn’t hurt if his QBC/OC would keep reminding him of the situation like that. Throw it if it’s there, but he doesn’t need to win the game only on this next throw. If they don’t trust him to call audibles at the line, why do they trust him to look at the forest not the trees in terms of the whole game situation every down? This makes little sense, unless Bates is reminding him enough and Darnold just has rocks in his head, but I really doubt it. The 2nd pick who cares; barring a miracle the game was over anyhow. The 2-handed basketball pass was admittedly weird looking. Anyway, the game slows down for them all.

2. The accuracy. It isn’t there a lot, and placement wasn’t so aweseome even when he completed 80% in week 1 after the pick-6. I don’t know what the cause is, but I doubt it’s an actual inability to throw a football accurately from usually 10 yds away. Too many throws are 2-3 feet off target outright, or just not leading his man, even if the pass is still catchable. That may very well be from not working enough with these receivers yet, or if he’s thinking too much, or I don’t know what (and any tripping up is going to make it look to some like it’s all on the QB anyhow). I didn’t watch Darnold at all in college, so unless this was always a problem he had, it’s fixable as he gets more familiar and more comfortable with his targets. I really doubt it’s an innate problem, since he oddly seems just as accurate at times when he’s on the run and not setting his feet at all.  

3. The staring down. He does lock in on someone a bit much when he isn’t in rollout/improvise mode mentally. This again is something that improves with time as he is more comfortable with the plays, gets a better rapport with his targets’ tendencies, and they get more familiar with him as well. Every QB does this a little, though, except it’s never criticized as staring down when the pass is completed, lol. Fitz was notorious for this (progressions were always downfield target, then checkdown, then run; if not skipping right from downfield target to run), and look at the start he’s had.

He’s just a rookie, and a super-young one at that. I’d need to see a whole lot more of him before I worry that any of these are incurable problems or even that they won’t be adequately corrected over the upcoming 3-12 months. The nice thing about taking his lumps like this, and learning/growing on the field now, is this team isn’t good enough to be a serious contender anyhow. 

[14 in Green]

What a bunch of clowns some of you are. The same guys who go on and on about the same crap day after day about the CS, the GM, Adams, Lee, Robbie, etc. are like a bunch of sheep. They are the guys who pile on with "butt fumbles" and "down votes" when anyone is the least bit critical of Sam. Every post I've made in this thread except for the first has included that I think Sam will be fine, we need to be patient, and let's enjoy watching him develop. But that's not enough for "the see no evil sheep" here, because I had the nerve to point out Sam wasn't very good the last two weeks. Most of you don't even join the conversation, you just follow the crowd with "sheep reactions." The funny part is, you're the same a**holes who'll be crying in December that we should've kept Bridgewater, or Macc should've taken Rosen or Allen, while myself and a few others will be patiently and REALISTICALLY watching and evaluating Sam. As a new member here, it seems the only thing worse then reading the moronic crap you guys post in Game threads (the Cleveland one was a joke) is to post that not everything is the coaches fault, or Sam wasn't the best player on the field. I'm done with the Sam threads from now on, I'll just follow and watch as the idiots eventually turn on each other. 

[section314]

Sperm....my biggest gripe about last game. Plenty of time to have run the ball, especially with the defense that the Browns were in. Did not have to pass it every play. I think if that is week 8 or 9, Sam will have the guts/freedom/experience to check out of some plays and into others. Like you said, growing pains.

[kdels62]

48 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

We knew his INTs were going to be an issue when we drafted him. He's a gunslinger who isn't afraid to go downfield. Now all he needs is a few guys who catch the ball as opposed to dropping it

He's thrown a bunch of interceptions without throwing the ball downfield. He's far from a complete prospect but he does have a bunch of tools. Nothing wrong with noticing that he's essentially an inaccurate Alex Smith at this point because he's also 21 years old.

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

... darnolds best attribute is getting out of the pocket and making plays... you’re gonna critize that? Not many guys can do what he does on the run, it’s special.

What throw outside the numbers do you want to see? Typically those are more lob style throws that don’t require arm strength. He threw one week 1 to Robby that was pretty good. What about the 15 yard outs he’s thrown in most games? They say that’s the hardest throw to make right?

noodle Fitzpatrick is lighting it up down field... you’re associating two things that aren’t necessarily related (arm strength and downfield passing). 

A howizter arm is most useful for 10-25 yard throws, to rip it in there before a closing defender 

This isn't getting much press, but you know what my favorite Darnold pass from the Browns game was?

After the Browns tied it up, Darnold facing a 3rd and 10. The last 5 possessions had come up empty with only 1 first down combined. He's in shotgun at the line with time to survey the field, sees that Kearse's guy is playing off, takes the snap, takes three steps to set his feet, and rips a perfect strike to Kearse running an out route for a 14 yard gain. Ball traveled ~23 yards horizontally from the right hash mark to the boundary, and ~22 yards vertically in the air, and was a perfect NFL throw. Any concern about arm strength should be alleviated after watching that throw.

The drive ended in a FG instead of a TD, but that was the best combination of play call and execution from the entire game. The call gave Sam good protection and an easy read while still pushing the ball downfield to pick up the first, and the execution was great because Sam actually set his feet and let it rip like a 10 year old polished vet. Kind of pathetic that a simple, standard 10-15 yard out was the best combination of play call and execution of the day, but we need more of it.

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Totally, this.

He’s 3 games into his career and these things are fixable with time, but here are the big 3 for me:

1.  The situational awareness. Most obviously, 1st and 10 with 3 TOs and ~2 min left is more time than they need to march downfield. No reason to force it into triple coverage there. He’s still just a baby yet in QB terms, so it wouldn’t hurt if his QBC/OC would keep reminding him of the situation like that. Throw it if it’s there, but he doesn’t need to win the game only on this next throw. If they don’t trust him to call audibles at the line, why do they trust him to look at the forest not the trees in terms of the whole game situation every down? This makes little sense, unless Bates is reminding him enough and Darnold just has rocks in his head, but I really doubt it. The 2nd pick who cares; barring a miracle the game was over anyhow. The 2-handed basketball pass was admittedly weird looking. Anyway, the game slows down for them all.

2. The accuracy. It isn’t there a lot, and placement wasn’t so aweseome even when he completed 80% in week 1 after the pick-6. I don’t know what the cause is, but I doubt it’s an actual inability to throw a football accurately from usually 10 yds away. Too many throws are 2-3 feet off target outright, or just not leading his man, even if the pass is still catchable. That may very well be from not working enough with these receivers yet, or if he’s thinking too much, or I don’t know what (and any tripping up is going to make it look to some like it’s all on the QB anyhow). I didn’t watch Darnold at all in college, so unless this was always a problem he had, it’s fixable as he gets more familiar and more comfortable with his targets. I really doubt it’s an innate problem, since he oddly seems just as accurate at times when he’s on the run and not setting his feet at all.  

3. The staring down. He does lock in on someone a bit much when he isn’t in rollout/improvise mode mentally. This again is something that improves with time as he is more comfortable with the plays, gets a better rapport with his targets’ tendencies, and they get more familiar with him as well. Every QB does this a little, though, except it’s never criticized as staring down when the pass is completed, lol. Fitz was notorious for this (progressions were always downfield target, then checkdown, then run; if not skipping right from downfield target to run), and look at the start he’s had.

He’s just a rookie, and a super-young one at that. I’d need to see a whole lot more of him before I worry that any of these are incurable problems or even that they won’t be adequately corrected over the upcoming 3-12 months. The nice thing about taking his lumps like this, and learning/growing on the field now, is this team isn’t good enough to be a serious contender anyhow. 

Ok I’m getting tired of defending Sam but it just seems like some people are trying to find negatives when they just aren’t there...

1. He made a boneheaded decision to throw that ball. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t have situational awareness. Do you understand the concept of sample size? He’s shown pretty excellent game management ability in many other examples... 

2. Accuracy is Darnold strength...  yea he’s missed a few but on more throws I’ve been impressed with his accuracy. It’s why the screen game works so well... I’m not sure how to come to the conclusion that accuracy is an issue by watching these games. He always lead his recievers even is it’s a foot high it’s in the right spot to let the wr make a play.

3. He goes through his progressions amazingly well for such a young QB. Simms was salivating over his ability to do that after the other 

i honestly don’t know what you guys are watching... 

here are the things I think he needs to improve:

- getting the play in sooner, this is killing us 

- play a little looser, not as loose as college but a little more free wheeling - this is his DNA. 

- throw to first read more-  related to above just let it loose and don’t over think it 

[nico002]

12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He's thrown a bunch of interceptions without throwing the ball downfield. He's far from a complete prospect but he does have a bunch of tools. Nothing wrong with noticing that he's essentially an inaccurate Alex Smith at this point because he's also 21 years old.

He’s thrown 3 picks... 1 really bad 

the pryor and 2nd vs browns aren’t even worth discussing 

[Scoop24]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think Sam is going to be fine but if you don't think the Jags are going to load up the box and challenge him to beat them you're fooling yourself.  It worked for the Browns and it's a copycat league. Until he shows a reason why teams shouldn't attack us that way it will be on repeat mode.

The Browns didn’t have to load the box . They destroyed Oline on passing down with 3 and 4 man fronts .  Spencer long got his ass handed to him all game .