Man... Sam really let it rip week 2

[Philc1]

6 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

The Browns didn’t have to load the box . They destroyed Oline on passing down with 3 and 4 man fronts .  Spencer long got his ass handed to him all game .

Spencer caused the second to last pick thrown by Darnold 

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

  damn this board is toxic as hell . Darnold having his ups and downs like any other rookie QB. And the way some of you act is like the kid is already a bust..

omg he threw a interception. Sky is falling ??

He’s just a rookie.  Peyton Manning threw more INTs than Tds as a rookie

[Philc1]

44 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He's thrown a bunch of interceptions without throwing the ball downfield. He's far from a complete prospect but he does have a bunch of tools. Nothing wrong with noticing that he's essentially an inaccurate Alex Smith at this point because he's also 21 years old.

And Smith was considered a bust the first 4-5 years of his career

[Scoop24]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He’s just a rookie.  Peyton Manning threw more INTs than Tds as a rookie

Hell forget rookie year Steve Young threw more picks than touchdowns in his 2nd year . 

Some Jets fans gotta learn how to let these young players develop .  It’s the bad days that’s gonna make Darnold great long term cause he will learn from them . 

[UntouchableCrew]

I love Sam as much as the next guy, but these "Hall of Fame QB X threw more INTs that TDs his rookie year" refernces are meaningless. They played in an entirely different era.

Who is the last QB in the NFL to have more INTs than TDs his rookie year and turn out to be good?

[nico002]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I love Sam as much as the next guy, but these "Hall of Fame QB X threw more INTs that TDs his rookie year" refernces are meaningless. They played in an entirely different era.

Who is the last QB in the NFL to have more INTs than TDs his rookie year and turn out to be good?

Goff threw more and Wentz was 16-14... and that was after a hot start.

wentz threw 8 TDs and 13 picks in his last 12 games of his rookie year.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

What a bunch of clowns some of you are. The same guys who go on and on about the same crap day after day about the CS, the GM, Adams, Lee, Robbie, etc. are like a bunch of sheep. They are the guys who pile on with "butt fumbles" and "down votes" when anyone is the least bit critical of Sam. Every post I've made in this thread except for the first has included that I think Sam will be fine, we need to be patient, and let's enjoy watching him develop. But that's not enough for "the see no evil sheep" here, because I had the nerve to point out Sam wasn't very good the last two weeks. Most of you don't even join the conversation, you just follow the crowd with "sheep reactions." The funny part is, you're the same a**holes who'll be crying in December that we should've kept Bridgewater, or Macc should've taken Rosen or Allen, while myself and a few others will be patiently and REALISTICALLY watching and evaluating Sam. As a new member here, it seems the only thing worse then reading the moronic crap you guys post in Game threads (the Cleveland one was a joke) is to post that not everything is the coaches fault, or Sam wasn't the best player on the field. I'm done with the Sam threads from now on, I'll just follow and watch as the idiots eventually turn on each other. 

You need to relax a bit. Attack the points not the posters. Thanks 

[UntouchableCrew]

14 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Goff threw more and Wentz was 16-14... and that was after a hot start.

wentz threw 8 TDs and 13 picks in his last 12 games of his rookie year.

Well, I think Jared Goff sucks, is a product of that system/team and if Darnold was playing for the Rams he'd be an MVP candidate, but that's a personal opinion.

So I looked back at every 1st round rookie since 2009.

Goff, Tannehill, Weeden, Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman are the only guys who played significant minutes who had negative TD:INT ratios. Weeden, Sanchez, and Freeman are busts outright. Goff looked hopeless and was saved by Sean McVay (more on this later.) Tannehill is at best competent. Gase seems to be getting the most out of him in terms of efficiency but he's never won a big game or beaten a good defense. Stafford puts up numbers. That's the best I can say about him.

My point here is not that we should panic or that Sam isn't good, but more that it has never been easier to be productive in the passing game than it is today and putting on "Peyton Manning had a negative TD/INT ratio" blinders is ridiculous. There is no way if Peyton Manning entered the league in 2018 he'd have a negative TD/INT ratio. It's meaningless. The majority of QBs who end up being good are productive early on.

We need to see more production from Sanchez and if we don't we need to give him the Goff treatment -- dump our stick in the mud out of touch defensive coach who fired the OC because his vertical passing game was too successful last year and bring in the young guru. The Rams from Fisher to McVay weren't that different in personnel, Whitworth and Woods aside. They just went from a dinosaur to a innovator. That's what we need to do if we don't see a turnaround in Darnold's production.

[nico002]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, I think Jared Goff sucks, is a product of that system/team and if Darnold was playing for the Rams he'd be an MVP candidate, but that's a personal opinion.

So I looked back at every 1st round rookie since 2009.

Goff, Tannehill, Weeden, Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman are the only guys who played significant minutes who had negative TD:INT ratios. Weeden, Sanchez, and Freeman are busts outright. Goff looked hopeless and was saved by Sean McVay (more on this later.) Tannehill is at best competent. Gase seems to be getting the most out of him in terms of efficiency but he's never won a big game or beaten a good defense. Stafford puts up numbers. That's the best I can say about him.

My point here is not that we should panic or that Sam isn't good, but more that it has never been easier to be productive in the passing game than it is today and putting on "Peyton Manning had a negative TD/INT ratio" blinders is ridiculous. There is no way if Peyton Manning entered the league in 2018 he'd have a negative TD/INT ratio. It's meaningless. The majority of QBs who end up being good are productive early on.

We need to see more production from Sanchez and if we don't we need to give him the Goff treatment -- dump our stick in the mud out of touch defensive coach who fired the OC because his vertical passing game was too successful last year and bring in the young guru. The Rams from Fisher to McVay weren't that different in personnel, Whitworth and Woods aside. They just went from a dinosaur to a innovator. That's what we need to do if we don't see a turnaround in Darnold's production.

What about wentz? Didn’t exactly light it up with an offensive coach and these new rules after a hit start.

i disagree on Goff- have you seen him this year?

[Scoop24]

16 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, I think Jared Goff sucks, is a product of that system/team and if Darnold was playing for the Rams he'd be an MVP candidate, but that's a personal opinion.

So I looked back at every 1st round rookie since 2009.

Goff, Tannehill, Weeden, Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman are the only guys who played significant minutes who had negative TD:INT ratios. Weeden, Sanchez, and Freeman are busts outright. Goff looked hopeless and was saved by Sean McVay (more on this later.) Tannehill is at best competent. Gase seems to be getting the most out of him in terms of efficiency but he's never won a big game or beaten a good defense. Stafford puts up numbers. That's the best I can say about him.

My point here is not that we should panic or that Sam isn't good, but more that it has never been easier to be productive in the passing game than it is today and putting on "Peyton Manning had a negative TD/INT ratio" blinders is ridiculous. There is no way if Peyton Manning entered the league in 2018 he'd have a negative TD/INT ratio. It's meaningless. The majority of QBs who end up being good are productive early on.

We need to see more production from Sanchez and if we don't we need to give him the Goff treatment -- dump our stick in the mud out of touch defensive coach who fired the OC because his vertical passing game was too successful last year and bring in the young guru. The Rams from Fisher to McVay weren't that different in personnel, Whitworth and Woods aside. They just went from a dinosaur to a innovator. That's what we need to do if we don't see a turnaround in Darnold's production.

Lmaoo you haven’t watched Goff this year then 

[14 in Green]

37 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

You need to relax a bit. Attack the points not the posters. Thanks 

Will do. Sorry, I let it get to me. It's not the posters though. It's the "reactions".

[Legend Killa7]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

I’m not... I’m just excited that this kid is on the Jets. I’ve never been excited about our QB in 20+ years.

this season from day 1 has been about seeing and evaluating Darnold... that’s what I’m interested in talking about.

hard for me not to respond to trolls trying to ruin my mood 

hes not flawless but he’s the best college qb I’ve seen since luck.. you may disagree but have been praying to the football gods for 2 years

 

agreed.  and when you compare his numbers against guys like Manning, E. Manning and Aikman in their first year; specifically their first three games, he is WAY ahead of the curve!

I'm sure it's the same with others, but those three are the only ones I have seen statistics directly compared to Sam's.

[The Crusher]

14 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Will do. Sorry, I let it get to me. It's not the posters though. It's the "reactions".

No problem. Thank you.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

You’re being irrational

You know well that the end zone pick week 2 was not his fault l- yet you keep saying his two picks cost us the game... what’s your agenda?

The narrative that he was bad week 2 is just overly simplistic and reactionary to the result of the game. Sam was without a doubt the best player on the field against Miami... he showed special traits. Yea he made a mistake, the defender made a great play- all quarterbacks throw picks...

its the society we live in though... everything is extreme. I thought Sam was much better week 2 than week 1.. yet people were putting him in canton week 1 and saying he has a bad game week 2. Just reactions to the outcomes of games.

Take Baker for example... if we recover his fumble, or if Middleton holds on the ball... the browns lose and Baker is labeled as reckless. We need to read between the lines here instead of just reacting to the most basic outcomes...

Sam has thrown three bad picks this year... Detroit, Miami #1, and Cle 1. No one is saying he’s perfect.. but he’s 21 and showing great things... if you can’t get excited about that then I feel sorry for you.

imo the picks can be a concern.  he's a rookie and so will throw his share of ints as he gets acclimated to the program.  happens to the best of them.  it's no slight.  what we need to see is him learning from the past mistakes.  right now it looks like he taking a lot of it on himself when in reality there are the other 10 guys who are also part of it.  what make football such a nice game, as opposed to the nba or baseball, is that it is a team game and all of the players need to do their share.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, nico002 said:

Ok I’m getting tired of defending Sam but it just seems like some people are trying to find negatives when they just aren’t there...

1. He made a boneheaded decision to throw that ball. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t have situational awareness. Do you understand the concept of sample size? He’s shown pretty excellent game management ability in many other examples... 

2. Accuracy is Darnold strength...  yea he’s missed a few but on more throws I’ve been impressed with his accuracy. It’s why the screen game works so well... I’m not sure how to come to the conclusion that accuracy is an issue by watching these games. He always lead his recievers even is it’s a foot high it’s in the right spot to let the wr make a play.

3. He goes through his progressions amazingly well for such a young QB. Simms was salivating over his ability to do that after the other 

i honestly don’t know what you guys are watching... 

here are the things I think he needs to improve:

- getting the play in sooner, this is killing us 

- play a little looser, not as loose as college but a little more free wheeling - this is his DNA. 

- throw to first read more-  related to above just let it loose and don’t over think it 

Likewise I can think someone is trying to overstate his positives, and see any nonflattery as unfair unless they’re the ones dispensing it.

Regardless of what is his perceived strength his supposed to be, no most of his passes are not right on the money - even if they’re still catchable - including his only really good game.

I still think he’ll be a good QB, perhaps a great one, with pinpoint accuracy, and there are reasons why this can be the case beyond inability issue I don’t think he has.

I don’t care what Simms says. He knows way more than I do about NFL QBing, but he’s also the first one to make up nonsense excuses for a QB and say there was noplace for a QB to throw even when as replay is showing an open receiver right there on the screen while he’s talking. He’s been like this for years.

[Jetty]

Sam has the arm strength of the Colts Peyton Manning. Good not great but gets the job done.  What he needs are better weapons.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

What about wentz? Didn’t exactly light it up with an offensive coach and these new rules after a hit start.

i disagree on Goff- have you seen him this year?

 

1 hour ago, Scoop24 said:

Lmaoo you haven’t watched Goff this year then 

He's a system QB. There are probably 18 QBs in the NFL that could do what he's doing (or better) on that Rams team with Sean McVay in his headset.

You put Jared Goff on the Jets he's awful.

[nico002]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

He's a system QB. There are probably 18 QBs in the NFL that could do what he's doing (or better) on that Rams team with Sean McVay in his headset.

You put Jared Goff on the Jets he's awful.

This isn’t a system QB throw:

I do agree that most QB would be awful on the Jets 

[kdels62]

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Spencer caused the second to last pick thrown by Darnold 

If Sam releases the ball in the first window he gets a completion and possibly a first down. He hesitated - like rookies do and the pocket collapsed.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, I think Jared Goff sucks, is a product of that system/team and if Darnold was playing for the Rams he'd be an MVP candidate, but that's a personal opinion.

So I looked back at every 1st round rookie since 2009.

Goff, Tannehill, Weeden, Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman are the only guys who played significant minutes who had negative TD:INT ratios. Weeden, Sanchez, and Freeman are busts outright. Goff looked hopeless and was saved by Sean McVay (more on this later.) Tannehill is at best competent. Gase seems to be getting the most out of him in terms of efficiency but he's never won a big game or beaten a good defense. Stafford puts up numbers. That's the best I can say about him.

My point here is not that we should panic or that Sam isn't good, but more that it has never been easier to be productive in the passing game than it is today and putting on "Peyton Manning had a negative TD/INT ratio" blinders is ridiculous. There is no way if Peyton Manning entered the league in 2018 he'd have a negative TD/INT ratio. It's meaningless. The majority of QBs who end up being good are productive early on.

We need to see more production from Sanchez and if we don't we need to give him the Goff treatment -- dump our stick in the mud out of touch defensive coach who fired the OC because his vertical passing game was too successful last year and bring in the young guru. The Rams from Fisher to McVay weren't that different in personnel, Whitworth and Woods aside. They just went from a dinosaur to a innovator. That's what we need to do if we don't see a turnaround in Darnold's production.

One of the worst Freudian slips I've ever seen. Please god don't let Sam turn into Sanchez.

[HelenOfTroy]

Most QBs coming out of college have worked with private coaches, played the circuits on 7 on 7 or 11 on 11 (whatever the hell you call them) teams from middle school on till college.  

Sam did not, didn’t consider it “real football” so he chose to play every sport he could with encouragement from his folks.  Jordan Palmer came into the picture before the draft, and half way thru his final year.

you drafted a QB with raw skills and enormous potential.  Good coaching is crucial.  Is the Jets the place to get that?  Will he progress, in spite of coaching?  Too soon to tell, I think.  Let’s all chill.

[Creepy Lurker]

25 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Most QBs coming out of college have worked with private coaches, played the circuits on 7 on 7 or 11 on 11 (whatever the hell you call them) teams from middle school on till college.  

Sam did not, didn’t consider it “real football” so he chose to play every sport he could with encouragement from his folks.  Jordan Palmer came into the picture before the draft, and half way thru his final year.

you drafted a QB with raw skills and enormous potential.  Good coaching is crucial.  Is the Jets the place to get that?  Will he progress, in spite of coaching?  Too soon to tell, I think.  Let’s all chill.

The Jets are 100% NOT the place for coaching young quarterbacks until we get the right coaching staff in place. It’s been a destroyer of QBs since 2009 (our first 1st rd QB pick since Pennington.) 

As awesome and great as Sam already is(my opinion), this is the type of place that can destroy you. We NEED a new coaching staff that can put him and the offense first and properly groom him so he can reach his potential. I can’t think of a more incompetent head coach than Todd Bowles and he’s not even on the right side of the ball(thank god) to help Sam.

Time is ticking on Sam’s Rookie deal and our window so assuming Bowles continues to be Bowles (very safe assumption), we need to cut bait after this season and Mac can go as well if his draft picks don’t step up. 

[UntouchableCrew]

One of the worst Freudian slips I've ever seen. Please god don't let Sam turn into Sanchez.

My apologies... I have to admit I’ve called Darnold Sanchez several times in the last month. It’s a really bad habit.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[freestater]

I don't think getting too worked up one way or another after 3 games, is very useful.

[Grandy]

It's good that he recognizes his mistakes and will use his instincts more

One of his best traits is his improvisation. You cant be a good improviser if you dont use your instincts.

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, nico002 said:

He’s thrown 3 picks... 1 really bad 

the pryor and 2nd vs browns aren’t even worth discussing 

3, 5, what's the difference? 

[#27TheDominator]

3 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

Hell forget rookie year Steve Young threw more picks than touchdowns in his 2nd year . 

Some Jets fans gotta learn how to let these young players develop .  It’s the bad days that’s gonna make Darnold great long term cause he will learn from them . 

It was 100 years ago, but Steve Young's rookie year wasn't even his rookie year.  He had aleady played a year in the USFL.  It was his 3rd year out of BYU when he posted those numbers.

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, I think Jared Goff sucks, is a product of that system/team and if Darnold was playing for the Rams he'd be an MVP candidate, but that's a personal opinion.

So I looked back at every 1st round rookie since 2009.

Goff, Tannehill, Weeden, Stafford, Sanchez, and Freeman are the only guys who played significant minutes who had negative TD:INT ratios. Weeden, Sanchez, and Freeman are busts outright.

More meaningless history.  Weeden was a 30 year old rookie that was supposed to come in as a finished product ready to start.  He was a Yankee draft pick as a pitcher out of high school and played baseball for 4-5 years before he gave up and went to Oklahoma State. Even then he redshirted a year. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

It was 100 years ago, but Steve Young's rookie year wasn't even his rookie year.  He had aleady played a year in the USFL.  It was his 3rd year out of BYU when he posted those numbers.

More meaningless history.  Weeden was a 30 year old rookie that was supposed to come in as a finished product ready to start.  He was a Yankee draft pick as a pitcher out of high school and played baseball for 4-5 years before he gave up and went to Oklahoma State. Even then he redshirted a year. 

Given that my underlying point was that in today's game most of these guys produce right away I'm not really sure how this is relevant (other than to point out that Weeden is an even bigger bust than the Sanchez's of the world.)

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Given that my underlying point was that in today's game most of these guys produce right away I'm not really sure how this is relevant (other than to point out that Weeden is an even bigger bust than the Sanchez's of the world.)

Meaningless history is usually...   meaningless

[kdels62]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

Goff threw more and Wentz was 16-14... and that was after a hot start.

wentz threw 8 TDs and 13 picks in his last 12 games of his rookie year.

Which is exactly why it’s okay that Darnold is mostly not good now because he might be pretty good in the future. I’m someone that was less than convinced by Darnold coming out of college and don’t see that Darnold is a Luck-esque prospect but I do see a raw QB with good tools. He’s 21, he can be below average at times and that’s perfectly fine.

[HelenOfTroy]

No matter how Sam’s development plays out, and there are valid reasons to be critical.....it irks me no end to read/hear Sam compared in any way to Mark Sanchez.  

I love Mark to pieces because he’s a Trojan for Life, but you can’t have two QBs more different, that played in college with a greater gap in NFL talent on both sides of the ball.  Mark had All Americans on defense, offense and special teams....all he had to do was be a game manager, but the one game he was asked to deliver - a game Sam could have easily taken over - he tanked, and cost his team a chance to play for a NC in 2009.

We watched the NFL Draft in the big screen in the Coliseum in the middle of our Spring Game, and when Mark was announced as the Jets selection #6 overall, we were all stunned.  You could hear it in the stadium before we broke off in applause.  Four first round picks in that draft, as well as several in the second round, that is how much talent played with Mark.

Sam had no such thing, he saved our season, and the coaches jobs.

[UntouchableCrew]

31 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Meaningless history is usually...   meaningless

I mean obviously the performance of first round QBs in the last ten years is more relevant than the performance of guys from the 80s or 90s.

[UntouchableCrew]

8 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

No matter how Sam’s development plays out, and there are valid reasons to be critical.....it irks me no end to read/hear Sam compared in any way to Mark Sanchez.  

I love Mark to pieces because he’s a Trojan for Life, but you can’t have two QBs more different, that played in college with a greater gap in NFL talent on both sides of the ball.  Mark had All Americans on defense, offense and special teams....all he had to do was be a game manager, but the one game he was asked to deliver - a game Sam could have easily taken over - he tanked, and cost his team a chance to play for a NC in 2009.

We watched the NFL Draft in the big screen in the Coliseum in the middle of our Spring Game, and when Mark was announced as the Jets selection #6 overall, we were all stunned.  You could hear it in the stadium before we broke off in applause.  Four first round picks in that draft, as well as several in the second round, that is how much talent played with Mark.

Sam had no such thing, he saved our season, and the coaches jobs.

I think everyone recognizes that Darnold was the much better prospect than Sanchez and that the Pete Carroll Trojans were very different than the Clay Helton Trojans from an overall talent perspective... But I don't think you can begrudge Jets fans a slip of the tongue. They're our last two first round QBs, both from the same school.

[Dunnie]

Baker made our defense look like it was playing a different game all together. There was noticable zip and velocity on his throws.

You’re being irrational
You know well that the end zone pick week 2 was not his fault l- yet you keep saying his two picks cost us the game... what’s your agenda?
The narrative that he was bad week 2 is just overly simplistic and reactionary to the result of the game. Sam was without a doubt the best player on the field against Miami... he showed special traits. Yea he made a mistake, the defender made a great play- all quarterbacks throw picks...
its the society we live in though... everything is extreme. I thought Sam was much better week 2 than week 1.. yet people were putting him in canton week 1 and saying he has a bad game week 2. Just reactions to the outcomes of games.
Take Baker for example... if we recover his fumble, or if Middleton holds on the ball... the browns lose and Baker is labeled as reckless. We need to read between the lines here instead of just reacting to the most basic outcomes...
Sam has thrown three bad picks this year... Detroit, Miami #1, and Cle 1. No one is saying he’s perfect.. but he’s 21 and showing great things... if you can’t get excited about that then I feel sorry for you.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[HelenOfTroy]

18 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I think everyone recognizes that Darnold was the much better prospect than Sanchez and that the Pete Carroll Trojans were very different than the Clay Helton Trojans from an overall talent perspective... But I don't think you can begrudge Jets fans a slip of the tongue. They're our last two first round QBs, both from the same school.

I suppose I expect intelligent arguments, ability to make persuasive points without the hyperbole, high school menopausal girl BS.  Not too smart to compare a QB with another that are not in the same skill level at all, it negates the posters analysis....or lack thereof.

I have no idea why men lose all sense and reason when discussing the QB position, either you love one as if he's the savior with no faults, and in the same breath,  unreasonably critical of whichever QB is in competition with your beloved.  Some of you guys have the fanboy act down cold.  It's unbecoming.