Baker Mayfield is Awesome

[Charlie Brown]

20 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

This is redic. Arron Roger's couldn't  win a game behind this OL ans with these WR's. 

 

Thank you......Jets fans are dolts...

Except for the E man no one other than Sam Darnold  really has any business on a starting NFL roster........

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Just because Baker looks like he'll be very good doesn't mean Darnold won't be as well.  I have to admit I'm interested in watching Browns games going forward.  Baker is a fun player to watch (not to mention I might have a bet on the Browns).

The one negative I've seen on Baker is that it looks like he fumbles quite a bit when he gets hit.  Other than that, though, I think he looks like he could be a heck of a QB. 

I'm already eating crow on this topic btw because I wasn't very high on the guy before the draft.  I remember hearing a scout say he had a great OL in college and his receivers were often shockingly wide open (far more than the other 3 QBs), which I thought explained his completion percentage.  

Yeah, he's fumbled three times in like six quarters of football. 

[slimjasi]

11 hours ago, rillo said:

Baker is in a similar situation as Sanchez was when we drafted him. Don't turnover the ball and they'll be in games. 

And usually lose them in excruciating fashion. 

[Integrity28]

oh, this thread... it's like the lovechild of a Pennington and Fitzmagic thread. Good gravy!

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Right after the Jets epic TNF loss, there were many saying; if Baker had started the season the Browns would have been 3-0 - well he started and they lost, so much for that theory, I think he looks better at this point because he has not been punched in the mouth yet...

I think Sam would look better if he watched Teddy or Uncle Josh start the first 3-4 games. Also still think Sam was the safest pick of the QB's even if someone else ends up with a better career, Jets did him no favors starting him with that schedule and his inexperience 

[Philc1]

Yay I triggered Villain. The guy thinks 4 turnovers against a bad defense is progress

[Villain The Foe]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Yay I triggered Villain. The guy thinks 4 turnovers against a bad defense is progress

? I just need someone around to argue with, is all. 

You're a filthy troll like my myself. 

I do have a serious question though. How does if feel to see a Air Raid, big 12 QB running the league out in Kansas City? And arguably the 2nd best QB being an Air Raid product from Cal? 

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Right after the Jets epic TNF loss, there were many saying; if Baker had started the season the Browns would have been 3-0 - well he started and they lost, so much for that theory, I think he looks better at this point because he has not been punched in the mouth yet...

I think Sam would look better if he watched Teddy or Uncle Josh start the first 3-4 games. Also still think Sam was the safest pick of the QB's even if someone else ends up with a better career, Jets did him no favors starting him with that schedule and his inexperience 

When you put up 42 points in your first ever start that you lose, it doesnt suddenly reflect bad on that 3-0 statement when 42 points would have been enough to win any of those games given that the most points scored in any of the first games were just 21. Furthermore, where was this when he came off the bench and provided 21 points to come back down 14 points in just a half of football? 

Baker has 12 scoring drives in 1.5 games, Tyrod Taylor has 7 in 3.5 games. Thats almost double. This Mayfield-led offense scored more points against the Raiders, a game they lost, than Tryod's offense scored against the Steelers, Saints and Jets combined. 

Am I saying that the Browns would be 3-1 right now with Mayfield. No, but comparing the offensive production of Mayfield relative to how close those first 3 games were kinda makes your blanket comment seem like something Id hear from one of those talking heads like Colin Cowherd. 

It is clear as day that this Browns offense has responded to Mayfields presence.

If you average out Mayfield's 6 quarters of offense, the Browns....I say again, THE BROWNS are averaging 42 points per game with Mayfield as qb. Will that come down? Yes, but it would have to be cut down significantly in order to meet the 15.6 points per game that Tyrod was averaging in the games he played in. 

Or could it just be that he planted that flag..."Ohio State" NY Jets fan?

[Philc1]

You do not tire of writing essays about how Baker will be better than Brady

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

It is clear as day that this Browns offense has responded to Mayfields presence.

If you average out Mayfield's 6 quarters of offense, the Browns....I say again, THE BROWNS are averaging 42 points per game with Mayfield as qb. Will that come down? Yes, but it would have to be cut down significantly in order to meet the 15.6 points per game that Tyrod was averaging in the games he played in. 

Or could it just be that he planted that flag..."Ohio State" NY Jets fan?

Agree the Browns have responded to Mayfields presence, but I am not convinced he would have the same support if he started the season vs the Steelers, Taylor was signed to start, got his chance and failed, that united the team, Baker lit up two bad defenses, great situation for him to succeed and they are rolling, good for them... 

My point was more about Sam and how he was not given the same chance for success, (for example, maybe he hangs 42 on the Colts if that was his first start)  that's on the Jets and it may turn into the worst decision in franchise history (and while I would have been fine with Mayfield or Rosen in the draft, Sam is our guy, he is the Jets for better or worse)

and LOL there is no hate, even if Baker was solely responsible for beating my two favorite football teams in the last two years, the flag planting was not a big deal IMHO, the Buckeyes beat them the year before in their house and that was payback for similar less public stuff 

[Jetster]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe this is why the Jets shouldnt have traded Bridgewater and instead let him start while sitting Darnold for the year. You can put a guy out on the field who is young, however, you cant put a guy who you feel is young and inexperienced out on the field. 

If that's the case then that only confirms that he was handed the position and didnt earn it. That's detrimental to the team which wouldnt be a surprise at all given this coaching staff/front office and them probably listening to the fanbase to play a guy who is too young and inexperience to play now, but has a ton of talent to work with and develop. 

As for the comparison, sure, Sam has the tools and once he gains the experience he'll be able to better utilize those tools, but that doesnt mean that Baker suddenly stops developing as well. I'd Take Todd Haley over anything that is around Sam Darnold right now in regards to QB development. Not only is Baker older, but he has more experienced. Sam played less than 2 full seasons in college. Mayfield's played 4 years over a 5 years span. That's experience acquired. Baker is older than Sam and began playing organized ball much earlier in his life than Sam. Not during anytime of the years that they were in College together were they similar in offensive output or accomplishment. What tells you or anyone that this will suddenly change in the pros...because he's a kid at the ripe old age of 21? 

Both can be good/great pros. It doesnt take one to be bad for the other to be great. The Jets need to worry about putting the right people around Sam before they squander this kids potential...because he IS young. Im talking real coaches, not a journeyman 40 year old QB you pay 10 million to in order to pat your rookie on the shoulderpads, say "good job", showing him how to handle the media along with what hair product to use.

 

Are you forgetting that the Jaguars beat the hell out of Tom Brady & the Pats 2 weeks ago? I think the score was about the same. Brady played at bit better but you'd expect that based on 17 years of experience. 

Baker Mayfield had 4 turnovers against arguably the worst defense in football Sunday. Like apples & oranges. Even Dak Prescott has Zeke & a great pass rush. Watson has Hopkins & Fuller! Carr has Cooper, Nelson, Lynch, & Cook.

Based on the supporting cast, not only is Darnold the youngest QB but he's also got the 2nd worst supporting cast after Josh Allen & the Bills. 

[Philc1]

51 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Are you forgetting that the Jaguars beat the hell out of Tom Brady & the Pats 2 weeks ago? I think the score was about the same. Brady played at bit better but you'd expect that based on 17 years of experience. 

Baker Mayfield had 4 turnovers against arguably the worst defense in football Sunday. Like apples & oranges. Even Dak Prescott has Zeke & a great pass rush. Watson has Hopkins & Fuller! Carr has Cooper, Nelson, Lynch, & Cook.

Based on the supporting cast, not only is Darnold the youngest QB but he's also got the 2nd worst supporting cast after Josh Allen & the Bills. 

Our receivers absolutely suck outside of Enunwa

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

When you put up 42 points in your first ever start that you lose, it doesnt suddenly reflect bad on that 3-0 statement when 42 points would have been enough to win any of those games given that the most points scored in any of the first games were just 21. Furthermore, where was this when he came off the bench and provided 21 points to come back down 14 points in just a half of football? 

Baker has 12 scoring drives in 1.5 games, Tyrod Taylor has 7 in 3.5 games. Thats almost double. This Mayfield-led offense scored more points against the Raiders, a game they lost, than Tryod's offense scored against the Steelers, Saints and Jets combined. 

Am I saying that the Browns would be 3-1 right now with Mayfield. No, but comparing the offensive production of Mayfield relative to how close those first 3 games were kinda makes your blanket comment seem like something Id hear from one of those talking heads like Colin Cowherd. 

It is clear as day that this Browns offense has responded to Mayfields presence.

If you average out Mayfield's 6 quarters of offense, the Browns....I say again, THE BROWNS are averaging 42 points per game with Mayfield as qb. Will that come down? Yes, but it would have to be cut down significantly in order to meet the 15.6 points per game that Tyrod was averaging in the games he played in. 

Or could it just be that he planted that flag..."Ohio State" NY Jets fan?

lmfao - Tyrod player the Steelers and Saints.  Mayfield has played the Jets and Raiders.  The Browns are legitimately 10x more talented than both teams, possibly put together. 

Mayfield just lost to the 2nd worst team in Football (behind the Jets) turning the ball over 4 times and barely completely 50% of his passes. but they'd be 3-1 if he started since week 1?  The Browns lost the game because of Baker Mayfield and more than likely win if Tyrod is in the game.  

lt will be interesting to see him vs. the Ravens.  He hasnt played a real defense yet and should have 6 turnovers in the same amount of quarters played.  The Ravens are playing good ball.  I suspect Mayfield will be good for at least 3 turnovers, if not more next week.  Probably something along the lines of 27-13 or something like that and getting smoked by the Ravens.  Another game I would suspect Tyrod could win because he takes care of the ball whereas Baker will probably spot the Ravens at least 14 pts. 

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Our receivers absolutely suck outside of Enunwa

When you look around the league, our skill players are garbage. Even Crowell & Powell are sub par. Just look at Chicago with a young Howard & Cohen. Then they added Burton the TE in free agency. It is freaking SAD what this group has done to the offensive side of the ball the last 3 years. Just look at the Rams. They started with Gurley, but then drafted Kupp, than traded for Cook. Just imagine that the Jets could have drafted both Gurley & Cooks. 

We gave up 31 points & 500 yards of offense Sunday to Blake Bortles, no Fournette. I hate Bowles with a passion! We need to finally STOP bringing in 1st time DCs as head coaches! 

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You do not tire of writing essays about how Baker will be better than Brady

You do not tire putting words in people's mouths. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

24 minutes ago, JiF said:

lmfao - Tyrod player the Steelers and Saints.  Mayfield has played the Jets and Raiders.  The Browns are legitimately 10x more talented than both teams, possibly put together. 

Mayfield just lost to the 2nd worst team in Football (behind the Jets) turning the ball over 4 times and barely completely 50% of his passes. but they'd be 3-1 if he started since week 1?  The Browns lost the game because of Baker Mayfield and more than likely win if Tyrod is in the game.  

lt will be interesting to see him vs. the Ravens.  He hasnt played a real defense yet and should have 6 turnovers in the same amount of quarters played.  The Ravens are playing good ball.  I suspect Mayfield will be good for at least 3 turnovers, if not more next week.  Probably something along the lines of 27-13 or something like that and getting smoked by the Ravens.  Another game I would suspect Tyrod could win because he takes care of the ball whereas Baker will probably spot the Ravens at least 14 pts. 

"LMFAO" ??? Being incorrect really isnt that funny. Ty played in the first three games. He put up 21 against the Steelers, 18 against the Saints and 0 against the Jets in 2 quarters. You brake those numbers down by quarters and the average is the number I provided. 

Mayfield lost to the 2nd worst team in football, while putting up 42 points in the loss. It's not like the Browns scored "12". Futhermore, he lost to a team who's season was on the line in that game....literally. And with a little help from the referees, they were able to achieve their win. 

You talk about the browns being 10x better yet the 2nd worst team (your words) put up almost 600 yards on that Browns defense. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Are you forgetting that the Jaguars beat the hell out of Tom Brady & the Pats 2 weeks ago? I think the score was about the same. Brady played at bit better but you'd expect that based on 17 years of experience. 

Baker Mayfield had 4 turnovers against arguably the worst defense in football Sunday. Like apples & oranges. Even Dak Prescott has Zeke & a great pass rush. Watson has Hopkins & Fuller! Carr has Cooper, Nelson, Lynch, & Cook.

Based on the supporting cast, not only is Darnold the youngest QB but he's also got the 2nd worst supporting cast after Josh Allen & the Bills. 

What does that have to do with anything? I watched the Dolphins smoke the Jets then get smoked by the Pats. 

Baker Mayfield had 4 turnovers against arguably the worst defense in football. Okay, I guess you want me to provide excuses for those turnovers or something? I dont need to go that route and explain each one becaue the facts dont matter. What matters is that the turnovers are on Mayfield's stats. Explaning those turnovers will definitely fall on deaf ears when it comes to folks with agendas with their narratives. 

Given the fact that I dont have to provide excuses, I can simply provide the facts, and the facts are The Browns offense put up 42 points with Mayfield at QB, more than what Ty has put together in all his play combined, and 7 less points than the Jets offense over their last 3 games. 

Hanging on to 4 turnovers is expected. He has an entire season ahead of him. That's like trying to kill Sam Darnold for his 2 turnovers and completion percentage under 50% against the browns a couple weeks back...only to hear how "The browns defense is great"....yet that same defense gave up 600 yards to the Raiders. 

 

Please. 

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

"LMFAO" ??? Being incorrect really isnt that funny. Ty played in the first three games. He put up 21 against the Steelers, 18 against the Saints and 0 against the Jets in 2 quarters. You brake those numbers down by quarters and the average is the number I provided. 

Mayfield lost to the 2nd worst team in football, while putting up 42 points in the loss. It's not like the Browns scored "12". Futhermore, he lost to a team who's season was on the line in that game....literally. And with a little help from the referees, they were able to achieve their win. 

You talk about the browns being 10x better yet the 2nd worst team (your words) put up almost 600 yards on that Browns defense. 

When your QB is turning the ball over 4 times a game, the others teams offense gets that more attempts to score and post more yards.  Then there is thing called playing Overtime which is equivalent to playing an extra quarter which also allows for...wait for it, wait for it....more yards and points!!!!  But you know that because you understand the game at a very high level. 

And unless Mayfield's angels were blocking for Chubb and Hyde, Mayfield contributed to about 17 points. 

Bottom line is, Baker Mayfield is the reason the Browns lost.  And nobody in the world is saying different, Mayfield included, other than you.

Again, it will be fun to see Baker play a real defense.  Unfortunately for him and you, the Browns dont get to dial up the Jets and Raiders each week. 

And just for tracking purposes, Mayfield is still searching for his first NFL victory...

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Agree the Browns have responded to Mayfields presence, but I am not convinced he would have the same support if he started the season vs the Steelers, Taylor was signed to start, got his chance and failed, that united the team, Baker lit up two bad defenses, great situation for him to succeed and they are rolling, good for them... 

Agreed. The team may not have responded to him they way they have. Luckily for Mayfield he was put in a position to earn that ability. That's not at all a demerit. 

Quote

My point was more about Sam and how he was not given the same chance for success, (for example, maybe he hangs 42 on the Colts if that was his first start)  that's on the Jets and it may turn into the worst decision in franchise history (and while I would have been fine with Mayfield or Rosen in the draft, Sam is our guy, he is the Jets for better or worse)

and LOL there is no hate, even if Baker was solely responsible for beating my two favorite football teams in the last two years, the flag planting was not a big deal IMHO, the Buckeyes beat them the year before in their house and that was payback for similar less public stuff 

I absolutely agree. I was definitely in the minority here when I supported sitting Sam, keeping Bridgewater and letting him start and let the 21 year old with just 4 years of organised football experience sit. Sam is in a terrible situation, but so would Mayfield if he was a Jet. I cant criticize Mayfield because we "sucked for Sam", yet provided no guidance or an offensive line for him. 

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

When you're QB is turning the ball over 4 times a game, the others teams offense gets that more attempts to score and post more yards.  Then there is thing called playing Overtime which is equivalent to playing an extra quarter which also allows for...wait for it, wait for it....more yards and points!!!!  But you know that because you understand the game at a very high level. 

And unless Mayfield's angels were blocking for Chubb and Hyde, Mayfield contributed to about 17 points. 

Bottom line is, Baker Mayfield is the reason the Browns lost.  And nobody in the world is saying different, Mayfield included, other than you.

Again, it will be fun to see Baker play a real defense.  Unfortunately for him and you, the Browns dont get to dial up the Jets and Raiders each week. 

And just for tracking purposes, Mayfield is still searching for his first NFL victory...

This is true, and those 4 turnovers contributed to the loss. No one is denying that at all. What's being denied or ignored is what he also provided outside of those 4 turnovers by folks only concentrating on 4 turnovers and how the Browns are "so much better than the Jets". 

 

Im not engaging in irrational conversations. Dude is being penalised because our team f'ing sucks lol. Get a grip. 

[More Cowbell]

19 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

@Philc1 made a statement so I figured I'd address that, and more. 

No, I dont think Mayfield having more turnovers than all of the other 3 rookie QB's who played yesterday "combined" is a good look for Mayfield. 

I do think that being the head of an offense that put up 42 points is great though, especially when the other 3 rookie QB's who played yesterday (Darnold, Allen, Rosen) accounted for 29 points combined. Those same 3 QB's offenses together were all outscored by Baker Mayfield's by a total of 13 points. I doubt Kellen Clemens has ever done that. 

I dont like the fact that Mayfield barely completed just 50% of his passes yesterday. I dont think that's a good look for Mayfield. 

I do think that being the starting QB for just 1.5 games of football, yet has led the offense on 12 drives that led to points scored is pretty good, especially when the QB who's started the longest, Sam Darnold has accounted for 15 drives that led to points scored, but has played in 4 games in comparison to just 6 quarters of football for Baker. 

No, I dont like the comparison of Sam Darnold to Mark Sanchez. I dont think i've ever even compared the two players Phil. I do like the Mayfield comparison, though not to Steve young, but another former 49er QB, Jeff Garcia. I think Mayfield can be a better version of Jeff Garcia in this league. 

I dont like that Mayfield turned the ball over 4 times. But I do like the fact that the 42 points that the Cleveland offense scored is the highest a QB making his 1st start has been part of since the NFL Merger, which was about 50 years ago. 

I dont think that Baker Mayfield is the "2nd coming" even though I do compare him to guys like Jeff Garcia and Drew Brees. However, I literally see posters of this forum with avatars that has Sam Darnold's face on the body of the Catholic version of Jesus Christ. I doubt that it's Villain acting like someone is the "2nd coming" of anything here when you put that into perspective...lets be serious. 

I dont like unsubstantiated hate that Mayfield receives, and as a byproduct of being a huge fan of him I receive....though I take it in stride given that it's unsubstantiated.

However, I also hate that folks wanted to suck for a quarterback as if the QB was the answer to all our problems...only to now have that QB and we still suck and all I hear now is "how many weapons" a team that has gone 1-31 over the past 2 seasons have and because of that how they're so much better than us. Na, I dont like that. Sounds like a bunch of bullsh*t actually. 

I just want to respond to this last paragraph and to the points about Baker scoring 42 points. 

Baker played a statistically bad game

 50% comp. 4 Turnovers, a pick 6 being one yet he scored 42 points. What does that tell you. Perhaps he played against a horrible D?

And yes, I totally agree, we have a franchise QB and we still suck but to the point of how many weapons Cleveland has? They are really talented on O. They have a great pass catching TE, Landry is a top WR who gets open and makes contested catches. That alone puts Cleveland's talent on O lightyears ahead of the Jets. 

Cleveland last season was building up the team, the Jets last season were dismantling one. I don't  know why this is never mentioned here. We literally started from scratch and we have added nothing on the O side. Our big FA pickup was a corner. Please, give the Jets Landry, and Any reasonable TE, even Clay from Buffalo and that would be a huge improvement. We have Darnold throwing exclusively  to Q who is a #3 or low end #2 at best as our #1.

[Jet Nut]

Did people watch him play or did they look at the point totals and come up with this nonsense?  He didnt look like the QB a few fanboys are describing.  He turned the ball over, didnt look accurate and was playing an 0-3 team with a lousy defense.  

Yup, thats the guy.  

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This is true, and those 4 turnovers contributed to the loss. No one is denying that at all. What's being denied or ignored is what he also provided outside of those 4 turnovers by folks only concentrating on 4 turnovers and how the Browns are "so much better than the Jets". 

 

Im not engaging in irrational conversations. Dude is being penalised because our team f'ing sucks lol. Get a grip. 

Who's being irrational here, brother?  I'm stating facts while you're giving hypotheticals, assumption type projections and what if scenarios. 

You seem to be taking this a bit personal.  Not sure why but all good in the hood, I ❤️ yer guts out.  You're passionate and clearly very invested in Baker Mayfield.  I could give two sh*ts about him or the Browns.  I'm just calling it like I see it. 

Baker sees his first real D this weekend.  Should be interesting. He's been unimpressive thus far.

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Who's being irrational here, brother?  I'm stating facts while you're giving hypotheticals, assumption type projections and what if scenarios. 

You seem to be taking this a bit personal.  Not sure why but all good in the hood, I ❤️ yer guts out.  You're passionate and clearly very invested in Baker Mayfield.  I could give two sh*ts about him or the Browns.  I'm just calling it like I see it. 

Baker sees his first real D this weekend.  Should be interesting. He's been unimpressive thus far.

 

 

It's not personal when im dismissing myself from irrational comments being regurgitated. He had 4 turnovers, I've not run away from the fact. However, everything else being provided is being dismissed. What's the point in conversating with you then? 

 

He's been unimpressive thus far, which is cool. We didn't try to suck for him. Maybe the guy we did suck for plays better with less given that he's the golden child. 

[Villain The Foe]

32 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I just want to respond to this last paragraph and to the points about Baker scoring 42 points. 

Baker played a statistically bad game

 50% comp. 4 Turnovers, a pick 6 being one yet he scored 42 points. What does that tell you. Perhaps he played against a horrible D?

And yes, I totally agree, we have a franchise QB and we still suck but to the point of how many weapons Cleveland has? They are really talented on O. They have a great pass catching TE, Landry is a top WR who gets open and makes contested catches. That alone puts Cleveland's talent on O lightyears ahead of the Jets. 

Cleveland last season was building up the team, the Jets last season were dismantling one. I don't  know why this is never mentioned here. We literally started from scratch and we have added nothing on the O side. Our big FA pickup was a corner. Please, give the Jets Landry, and Any reasonable TE, even Clay from Buffalo and that would be a huge improvement. We have Darnold throwing exclusively  to Q who is a #3 or low end #2 at best as our #1.

He absolutely did. However, when those 4 turnovers were a dropped pass by Callaway into the hands of a defender, a bad snap by a center while Mayfield was audibling, a RT getting pushed into the QB on a 3 step drop, and a clear INT thrown by baker it puts context to those turnovers. 

When we look at the 50% comp rate and then we see about 5 or 6 dropped passes, three by Callaway alone which includes the pick 6 and a dropped 2pt conversion, then the context of that completion percentage also tells a much clearer story. 

Now adding context to the fact that he still put up 42 points as the head of the offense then I can somewhat excuse a rookie QB making his first start in the black hole with a team fighting to keep their season alive....with refs helping. 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It's not personal when im dismissing myself from irrational comments being regurgitated. He had 4 turnovers, I've not run away from the fact. However, everything else being provided is being dismissed. What's the point in conversating with you then? 

 

He's been unimpressive thus far, which is cool. We didn't try to suck for him. Maybe the guy we did suck for plays better with less given that he's the golden child. 

Nobody is dismissing anything, honey bunny and all I'm doing is stating rational facts by just giving your takes some context: 

You're beating the table about the yards and points the Browns gave up, I simply stated, having 3 extra possessions, a pick six and an extra quarter, helps skew the scoreboard on both points and yards.  That's a very rational fact.  

You're talking about how much better the offense is under Mayfield.  He's played the Jets and Raiders.  They both suck something awful.  That's a very rational fact. 

Their running game went nuts, unless Baker Mayfield is blocking down field for them, those points coming off of the run game is a very rational fact.

Tyrod takes care of the ball, Mayfield doesnt.  That's very rational fact.

Again, you're taking this personal for some reason, and that's fine.  You get emotional and I love you for it but I'm having a rational conversation with you, homey.  

You know what's not rational?  The thought that the Jets sucked for someone.  They didnt.  They tried to win every game they could and ended up with sh*tty draft position and had to trade for what my guess is what they thought was Baker Mayfield.  They're on record stating they didnt think Darnold would be there...so who do you think they had next on their list?  Hopefully the Browns did us a favor.  Only time will tell.  I think both guys will have a very long career in the NFL.  The early returns havent been great for either, no matter how much you want to try and make it seem different. 

[HelenOfTroy]

We're arguing about rookie QBs here.....I'm impressed with the guy no one is arguing about......Josh Rosen.  

 

[More Cowbell]

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

He absolutely did. However, when those 4 turnovers were a dropped pass by Callaway into the hands of a defender, a bad snap by a center while Mayfield was audibling, a RT getting pushed into the QB on a 3 step drop, and a clear INT thrown by baker it puts context to those turnovers. 

I didn't see the game, just the highlights but what you are describing are excuses. 

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

When we look at the 50% comp rate and then we see about 5 or 6 dropped passes, then the context of that completion percentage also tells a much clearer story. 

Yeah, it means he didn't  complete the pass. This is another excuse. Every QB in every game contends with dropped passes and a lot of them do better than 50%. 

9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Now adding context to the fact that he still put up 42 points as the head of the offense then I can somewhat excuse a rookie QB making his first start in the black hole with a team fighting to keep their season alive....with refs helping. 

Oh please. Baker couldn't  have asked for a more friendly place to play. Oakland is horrible. They averaged 17 points there first 3 games. The whole loss is far from the QB's fault but the guy made plenty of contributions 

[Villain The Foe]

43 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nobody is dismissing anything, honey bunny and all I'm doing is stating rational facts by just giving your takes some context: 

We've had this conversation years ago regarding this type of rhetoric and measuring sticks. Please dont have a relapse. 

Let me give you an idea of "rational". Rational is acknowledging that he had 4 turnovers statistically, but evaluating those turnovers in order to know if all of those were his fault. I doubt Callaway dropping a pass that hit both hands (albeit, he tripped on the grass) and it falling into a defenders hands for a pick should constitute some egregious turnover by Baker Mayfield. 

Continuously harping on 4 turnovers when it's not being denied that he has them while not putting context to them while drawing conclusions based on those turnovers while refusing to acknowledge the context of those turnovers defines your irrational state. 

Quote

You're beating the table about the yards and points the Browns gave up, I simply stated, having 3 extra possessions, a pick six and an extra quarter, helps skew the scoreboard on both points and yards.  That's a very rational fact.  

You are now "simply" stating that this does skew the scoreboard. This is correct. But again, were you rational about that pick 6 being a drop by Calloway? I haven't heard you state that once. 

And speaking of skewing the scoreboard, wasn't Callaway also the guy who dropped a 2pt conversion? Points left off the board? 

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You're talking about how much better the offense is under Mayfield.  He's played the Jets and Raiders.  They both suck something awful.  That's a very rational fact. 

Yet it's a fact. Ty and Mayfield both played a half each against the Jets. the Ty-led offense put up 0 points, Mayfield led offense put up 21 while being down by 14. The Next game, The Browns offense put up 42, more than all of the points that the Browns scored with Ty leading them....combined. That's a very rational fact, because it takes much more into account. 

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Their running game went nuts, unless Baker Mayfield is blocking down field for them, those points coming off of the run game is a very rational fact.

That running game did go nuts, something that couldnt happen with Ty because Ty is not a threat to go deep at all. Go look at that Jets game and look at the rushing game in the 1st half with Ty, and the 2nd half with Mayfield. The difference? Ty couldnt go deep, Mayfield could. It opened up the defense, Hyde and Chubb took advantage. Rational facts right? 

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Tyrod takes care of the ball, Mayfield doesnt.  That's very rational fact.

It's hard for me to confirm Mayfield's tendencies when it comes to his ability to take care of the football given that yesterday was his 1st ever start. I would be comparing that to a guy who's played about a decade in this league. That wouldn't be rational. 

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Again, you're taking this personal for some reason, and that's fine.  You get emotional and I love you for it but I'm having a rational conversation with you, homey.  

Nothing I wrote in this is emotion. I just dont have time for folks who regurgitates the same facts with zero context while refusing to take everything else into account. 

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You know what's not rational?  The thought that the Jets sucked for someone.  They didnt. 

You're correct. The Jets organization didn't suck for Sam, they just flat out sucked. My comment was directed more towards fans who would actually want to see their team tank a year for a QB. That's pretty damn irrational. That should clarify my position. 

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Hopefully the Browns did us a favor.  Only time will tell.  I think both guys will have a very long career in the NFL.  The early returns havent been great for either, no matter how much you want to try and make it seem different. 

Providing proper coaching and developing the talent you draft is much more rational than hoping that the Browns did us a favor. And truth be told, the way I keep hearing how the Browns are so much better than us....maybe they did themselves a favor. 

How about the Jets develop their players and put some competent offensive play on the field? If we did that we wouldn't have to worry about other teams doing us favors....we'd instead know that we have the right coaching staff and GM building a successful franchise no matter where they draft or who falls to them. 

That's rational. 

[Villain The Foe]

24 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

We're arguing about rookie QBs here.....I'm impressed with the guy no one is arguing about......Josh Rosen.  

 

Solid game. I hope his injury history isnt a injury problem on this level. If he can stay upright he has a chance. 

[Villain The Foe]

28 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I didn't see the game, just the highlights but what you are describing are excuses. 

This thread is 7 pages long, and that was my first time describing those plays. But maybe they should be expressed given that you didn't see the game...just highlights. I have no problem stating that Baker Mayfield has 4 turnovers on Sunday. I also have no problem stating how those turnovers happened. You telling me that they're "excuses" is good for you. 

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Yeah, it means he didn't  complete the pass. This is another excuse. Every QB in every game contends with dropped passes and a lot of them do better than 50%. 

Again, absolutely correct. However, many of those....no, ALL OF THOSE QB's you're generally thinking of didn't start their first game yesterday. Based on a players 1st game going against a team on the ropes....it wasn't bad. 

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Oh please. Baker couldn't  have asked for a more friendly place to play. Oakland is horrible. They averaged 17 points there first 3 games. The whole loss is far from the QB's fault but the guy made plenty of contributions 

Actually he could have, he could have asked to play at MetLife. Either team...makes no difference. 

[HelenOfTroy]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Solid game. I hope his injury history isnt a injury problem on this level. If he can stay upright he has a chance. 

Although not the same position, we had a player who was often injured at USC who went on to have an injury free, long NFL career.  Pro Football Hall of Famer, Anthony Munoz.

Hope he fares as well (after Sam, of course) I don't wish injury on any player, even a Bruin or a Domer.

[slimjasi]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

When you put up 42 points in your first ever start that you lose, it doesnt suddenly reflect bad on that 3-0 statement when 42 points would have been enough to win any of those games given that the most points scored in any of the first games were just 21. Furthermore, where was this when he came off the bench and provided 21 points to come back down 14 points in just a half of football? 

Baker has 12 scoring drives in 1.5 games, Tyrod Taylor has 7 in 3.5 games. Thats almost double. This Mayfield-led offense scored more points against the Raiders, a game they lost, than Tryod's offense scored against the Steelers, Saints and Jets combined. 

Am I saying that the Browns would be 3-1 right now with Mayfield. No, but comparing the offensive production of Mayfield relative to how close those first 3 games were kinda makes your blanket comment seem like something Id hear from one of those talking heads like Colin Cowherd. 

It is clear as day that this Browns offense has responded to Mayfields presence.

If you average out Mayfield's 6 quarters of offense, the Browns....I say again, THE BROWNS are averaging 42 points per game with Mayfield as qb. Will that come down? Yes, but it would have to be cut down significantly in order to meet the 15.6 points per game that Tyrod was averaging in the games he played in. 

Or could it just be that he planted that flag..."Ohio State" NY Jets fan?

The averaging 42 points thing sounds awesome, until you realize that:  A) Chubb had two long touchdown runs (49 yards and 60+ yards), and B) They were playing against one of the worst defenses in the NFL. 

It's early. Let's see how things unfold. Mayfield also had more turnovers in that awesome game of his than Darnold has had in any of his four starts. Also, the interception at the end of regulation was particularly bad, since he was at midfield with a legitimate chance to win the game in regulation (A good veteran QB hits two 10-15 yard in cuts there and gives his team a game-winning FG opportunity). 

I like Mayfield, but calm your t*ts. 

[Villain The Foe]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The averaging 42 points thing sounds awesome, until you realize that:  A) Chubb had two long touchdown runs (49 yards and 60+ yards), and They were playing against one of the worst defenses in the NFL. 

It's early. Let's see how things unfold. Mayfield also had more turnovers in that awesome game of his than Darnold has had in any of his four starts. Also, the interception at the end of regulation was particularly bad, since he was at midfield with a legitimate chance to win the game in regulation (A good veteran QB hits two 10-15 yard in cuts there and gives his team a game-winning FG opportunity). 

I like Mayfield, but calm your t!ts. 

I never once said that Baker Mayfield threw 42 points worth of TD's. However, what I can say is this...because Mayfield can threaten down the field (something that TY couldnt do) it opened up that running game (something that was nonexistent with Tyrod). 

Mayfield's ability lends itself well to the offense as a whole. Go look at the Jets game and see how that Jets defense didn't respect a deep ball whatsoever and because of that all they did was stack the box against Ty. Then go look at the 2nd half of that game and watch how they changed their back scheme to compensate for the pass...then look at the rushing stats in the 2nd half with Mayfield in the game. 

 

Nothing im saying here is outrageous. Im calm and cool as a fan. 

[slimjasi]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I never once said that Baker Mayfield threw 42 points worth of TD's. However, what I can say is this...because Mayfield can threaten down the field (something that TY couldnt do) it opened up that running game (something that was nonexistent with Tyrod). 

Yeah, I'm not attributing long touchdown runs to the mere presence of Baker Mayfield just quite yet. You could just as easily say that Oakland's defense is trash and that Chubb is pretty damn good and was due for a breakout. 

Let's see how Baker handles the Ravens defense this week. Long way to go for this stuff.