Andy Reid - QB Whisperer

[nyjunc]

18 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The greatest coach of his generation and possibly all time has lost 3 superbowls with an all-time great quarterback. ?‍♂️

Yeah and won 5.

I think Andy Reid is an all time great HC but he can will never get the respect he deserves until he wins a SB.  He's sort of like John elway, remember what his reputation was like pre 2 SB wins?  It was unfair but that's the way it was.  Reid is the coaching version if elway.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Andy Reid is the greatest coach ever not to win a ring, IMO.

I see young coaching proteges around football circles, aspiring for the same moniker. 

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Andy Reid is the greatest coach ever not to win a ring, IMO.

He will win at least one if Mahomes stays healthy.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

He will win at least one if Mahomes stays healthy.

As long as he does not have to coach the game, or manage that game, yes.

You know ho we often say that that jets fans notice the warts of their own, and are not as harsh on others that we don't see as often? This is one of those examples.

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Andy Reid is 0-1 in a SB. There are many other coaches that have that same record, that would not be called great.

My indictment of Reid is that he has taken 13 teams to the playoffs, yet only has 1 appearance in the SB, and 0 wins in that game.

Nice record, but not an all time great performance in games that matter. Some may call that choking in big games. Ala Marty Schottenheimer

The Jets have made the playoffs 13 times in their entire history.

[slimjasi]

4 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Andy Reid is a poor, poor game manager. 

Remember how Rex was called a Great D coordinator? Andy Reid is a great O coordinator.

Eh, he's more that that. He's definitely a head coach, lol. 

He's coached his teams to 8 division championships, 5 conference championship games and 1 Super Bowl appearance. He's had some brutal, heartbreaking losses in the playoffs and made some awful decisions in some of those games. But, Rex Ryan is amateur hour compared to Andy Reid. 

[UntouchableCrew]

40 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

As long as he does not have to coach the game, or manage that game, yes.

You know ho we often say that that jets fans notice the warts of their own, and are not as harsh on others that we don't see as often? This is one of those examples.

That's just dumb. There's a huge difference between "he hasn't won a ring" and "he can't win a ring."

The reality is he's consistently won with guys who didn't have a ton of success elsewhere -- and Mahomes looks like the best QB he's ever had.

Does he have some issues managing the clock and certain situations? Yeah, that's a fair criticism. But he's a great coach.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

How good has Andy Reid been working with QB's? He has gotten the best out of every QB he's been around.

• Brett Favre
• Donovan McNabb
• Kevin Kolb
• Jeff Garcia
• Mike Vick
• Alex Smith
• Patrick Mahomes

I think he's a lock for the hall of fame one day. He has a ring as an assistant but could very well have a ring as HC before it's all said and done.  

Anyway - if I'm the Jets I'm starting my coaching search by learning everything I can about Andy Reid and trying to understand why he has been so successful. The Chiefs may even allow an interview - not a job interview, obviously - just an interview to learn about the man and what makes him tick. I'm interviewing all the retired QB's who have worked for him and any other unemployed coaches that have worked for him to try and understand what drives that success. If nothing else maybe they can learn a few things about what it takes to be successful in the NFL. 

 

I’m sorry — Kevin Kolb?

I think that one alone demonstrates Andy Reid (who drafted Kolb) has to have a minimum of something to work with or he isn’t able to do his magic whispering. You can’t just throw any meh-talent QB out there and suddenly the player’s great (or even halfway decent) because of his royal whisperness.

I noticed young Nick Foles was conveniently skipped-over. With Reid he looked like Kevin Kolb. The first year without Reid he had one of the all-time great NFL seasons. Strange. After that he was fine so long as he had an OL (Anyone should be absolved for time spent playing for Jeff Fisher), whether it was a couple games against teams who couldn’t pick off a pass to save their skins with KC, or in his return to the Eagles a year later.

I’m not saying Reid’s not a serious coaching asset, but the only QBs truly worth mentioning on the list were top 10 (and mostly top 2) draft pick QBs. It’s not like he’s made a career of developing mid- and late-rounders (or even 2nd rounders and mid/late 1st rounders) into studs. Far from it. 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the country; a top prospect in his own right. 

Vick was a veteran former #1 pick who was still just 29, not some broken down old man, when he joined the Eagles. He could still play at that time, whether that came with Reid’s team or someone else. 

Alex Smith was another former #1 overall pick, and his career had already been turned around by Harbaugh. If the sentiment is Reid didn’t suddenly undo Harbaugh’s work, that’s tepid praise at best.

Jeff Garcia was a 36 year-old former pro bowler in his one season with Reid, and not coincidentally was again a pro bowler a year later at age 37 with Tampa.

I’d of course rather have him than Bowles, but without much effort I could easily change the narrative around to: “Reid couldn’t get squat out of any QB who wasn’t a top 10 (if not top 2) non-bust, and/or picking up a QB someone else had already developed,” and it’d be a factually-accurate statement.

He’s also squarely to blame for getting LeSean McCoy badly concussed in the first season of his $60m Eagles extension, sitting at 3-7 (about to be 3-8) yet still running McCoy into Washington’s DL despite trailing 31-6 with under 2 minutes left. 

Good coach. Certainly better than we have, for sure, but he’s also certainly flawed and doesn’t remotely make QB stars out of meh and garbage talent prospects.

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m sorry — Kevin Kolb?

I think that one alone demonstrates Andy Reid (who drafted Kolb) has to have a minimum of something to work with or he isn’t able to do his magic whispering. You can’t just throw any meh-talent QB out there and suddenly the player’s great (or even halfway decent) because of his royal whisperness.

I noticed young Nick Foles was conveniently skipped-over. With Reid he looked like Kevin Kolb. The first year without Reid he had one of the all-time great NFL seasons. Strange. After that he was fine so long as he had an OL (Anyone should be absolved for time spent playing for Jeff Fisher), whether it was a couple games against teams who couldn’t pick off a pass to save their skins with KC, or in his return to the Eagles a year later.

I’m not saying Reid’s not a serious coaching asset, but the only QBs truly worth mentioning on the list were top 10 (and mostly top 2) draft pick QBs. It’s not like he’s made a career of developing mid- and late-rounders (or even 2nd rounders and mid/late 1st rounders) into studs. Far from it. 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the country; a top prospect in his own right. 

Vick was a veteran former #1 pick who was still just 29, not some broken down old man, when he joined the Eagles. He could still play at that time, whether that came with Reid’s team or someone else. 

Alex Smith was another former #1 overall pick, and his career had already been turned around by Harbaugh. If the sentiment is Reid didn’t suddenly undo Harbaugh’s work, that’s tepid praise at best.

Jeff Garcia was a 36 year-old former pro bowler in his one season with Reid, and not coincidentally was again a pro bowler a year later at age 37 with Tampa.

I’d of course rather have him than Bowles, but without much effort I could easily change the narrative around to: “Reid couldn’t get squat out of any QB who wasn’t a top 10 (if not top 2) non-bust, and/or picking up a QB someone else had already developed,” and it’d be a factually-accurate statement.

He’s also squarely to blame for getting LeSean McCoy badly concussed in the first season of his $60m Eagles extension, sitting at 3-7 (about to be 3-8) yet still running McCoy into Washington’s DL despite trailing 31-6 with under 2 minutes left. 

Good coach. Certainly better than we have, for sure, but he’s also certainly flawed and doesn’t remotely make QB stars out of meh and garbage talent prospects.

I included Kolb & Garcia because he had winning seasons that resulted in playoffs with them as his starter. I honestly forgot about Foles.

Of course these guys are all very talented, many highly drafted. Reid seems to always get the most out of them. How many very talented, highly drafted QB's never amount to anything in the NFL? Reid has a very strong record of success with them.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m sorry — Kevin Kolb?

I think that one alone demonstrates Andy Reid (who drafted Kolb) has to have a minimum of something to work with or he isn’t able to do his magic whispering. You can’t just throw any meh-talent QB out there and suddenly the player’s great (or even halfway decent) because of his royal whisperness.

 

To the contrary Kolb proves how great Reid is. Guy totally sucked and yet played well enough under Reid that the Eagles traded him for a 2nd round pick and DRC. Cardinals gave him 63 million (20 guaranteed) over 5 years.

Reid was good enough to make that stiff look decent, that's a feather in his cap IMO.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The Jets have made the playoffs 13 times in their entire history.

And they have one more SB than Andy Reid.

[Scott Dierking]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Andy Reid is the greatest coach ever not to win a ring, IMO.

Which is akin to saying that salisbury steak is a great meal that is not served at a steakhouse.

[Barry McCockinner]

17 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

And they have one more SB than Andy Reid.

Yes, we've established that Andy Reid did not defeat the Patriots in the Superbowl.

[jetscrazey]

Reid is the classic example of the "Peter principle."  He's great, great coordinator who got promoted to a position where he's not as good (head coach.)

But this is what always happens, the truly great coordinators inevitably get promoted to the next level, where they either will still be great, or they will be just ok, like Reid.

Having said that, there's no question, Reid is a great coach to work with a young, talented QB, and I wish we had him instead of Toilet Bowles.

[jack48]

6 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Yep Andy Reid is the best IMHO  . It's not just about his QB's it's about the fact KC has WR's running wide open all over the field. He knows how to develop mismatches  and he's been doing it his entire career. It's much easier to play QB when you have weapons at every position with blazing speed and a coach who knows how to coach and get players open.

He's like the Anti Jets coach. When you watch the Jets they can't even disguise a damn screen pass. How often do you see Jets WR's running wide open ? Do we ever see Jets WR's running wide open ? 

Mahomes has a pretty impressive cast of characters around him.  How did they do that?  Ha ha ha

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, jetscrazey said:

Reid is the classic example of the "Peter principle."  He's great, great coordinator who got promoted to a position where he's not as good (head coach.)

But this is what always happens, the truly great coordinators inevitably get promoted to the next level, where they either will still be great, or they will be just ok, like Reid.

Having said that, there's no question, Reid is a great coach to work with a young, talented QB, and I wish we had him instead of Toilet Bowles.

Peter Principle? 

Jesus Christ guys. He has 187 career wins with a .609 winning percentage. In 20 seasons he has had a losing record 3 times, and 13 playoff appearances (soon to be 14). He has 5 conference title game appearances and a Super Bowl appearance. He is unquestionably one of the best coaches in the NFL. If you think he's "only okay" then you're basically saying there are only three guys in the world qualified to do 32 jobs.

When he inevitably wins a Super Bowl (he will) he's going to become a slam dunk Hall of Famer.

I can't even imagine how lucky we'd be to have a coach of Reid's caliber here.

[jetscrazey]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Peter Principle? 

Jesus Christ guys. He has 187 career wins with a .609 winning percentage. In 20 seasons he has had a losing record 3 times, and 13 playoff appearances (soon to be 14). He has 5 conference title game appearances and a Super Bowl appearance. He is unquestionably one of the best coaches in the NFL. If you think he's "only okay" then you're basically saying there are only three guys in the world qualified to do 32 jobs.

When he inevitably wins a Super Bowl (he will) he's going to become a slam dunk Hall of Famer.

I can't even imagine how lucky we'd be to have a coach of Reid's caliber here.

I view Reid like Marty Schottenheimer.  Great regular season coach, but his teams have never had the killer instinct to scare an opponent in the playoffs.  And guess what, the playoffs are where championships are won.

[Scott Dierking]

33 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Yes, we've established that Andy Reid did not defeat the Patriots in the Superbowl.

Nor anyone else. You know what? Tom Coughlin beat the Pats twice in the SB. Doug Pederson once (in his second year.) 

It just goes to show you that just getting there is not only half the battle. You actually have to coach in order to win it all. And Andy Reid has not done that.

Very good coach, yes. But not in the upper echelon of coaches that have actually won the title. 

And based on what I have seen as a measuring stick of temperament on this site, he would be eviscerated on this site with that track record. And I get it.

[Scott Dierking]

Here is Andy Reid in a nutshell. 2002 NFC championship game. Against Tampa Bay. Who, in their history were 1-21 in games played under 40 degrees. ONE and TWENTY-ONE! The Eagles had manhandled them in the regular season as well

It is a frigid day in Philadephia. Everything is set up for them. They promptly lose 27-10.

Only Andy Reid.

[Scott Dierking]

Here, feel this pain:

http://phillyinfluencer.com/2016/01/here-are-some-of-andy-reids-all-time-top-clock-management-screw-ups/

 

Sound familiar?

[Barry McCockinner]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Nor anyone else. You know what? Tom Coughlin beat the Pats twice in the SB. Doug Pederson once (in his second year.) 

It just goes to show you that just getting there is not only half the battle. You actually have to coach in order to win it all. And Andy Reid has not done that.

Very good coach, yes. But not in the upper echelon of coaches that have actually won the title. 

And based on what I have seen as a measuring stick of temperament on this site, he would be eviscerated on this site with that track record. And I get it.

So your position is that Andy Reid did not coach in the superbowl when he got there? I'm a little confused by that line. The difference between winning and losing one game is much less than you're making it out to be IMO. They lost a close game to a dynasty with all-time greats on both sides of the ball.

[Barry McCockinner]

25 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here is Andy Reid in a nutshell. 2002 NFC championship game. Against Tampa Bay. Who, in their history were 1-21 in games played under 40 degrees. ONE and TWENTY-ONE! The Eagles had manhandled them in the regular season as well

It is a frigid day in Philadephia. Everything is set up for them. They promptly lose 27-10.

Only Andy Reid.

What was Tampas record during a crescent moon in January when facing a HC over 280 pounds though? HMMMM

The Bucs were pretty good that year too.

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Again, Reid is 12th all time on the NFL playoff win list. Most of the people ahead of him are HOF coaches. The narrative that he doesn't win in the playoffs is simply false.

Yet 1-6 in the playoffs since 2009.  Those wins were racked up in the postseasons back when the Eagles were the annual NFC Championship losers a decade and a half ago.

Don't get me wrong, he's far better than most of what the Jets have had at HC, but the postseason struggles are a very legitimate criticism.

[joewilly12]

The NY Jets need a guy like Andy Reid. 

[Scott Dierking]

45 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What was Tampas record during a crescent moon in January when facing a HC over 280 pounds though? HMMMM

The Bucs were pretty good that year too.

You have a low tolerance for what you consider "great". That is fine and you are welcome to that opinion.

Certainly, on a Jetsian scale, he would be great. But that is not the greatness that I am shooting for. If it is what you want, more power to you.

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

The NY Jets need a guy like Andy Reid. 

I would have taken Doug Marrone. But YOU though that was a horrible idea,

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I would have taken Doug Marrone. But YOU though that was a horrible idea,

I did NOT 

Show me PROOF 

Please don't put words in my mouth or wrongfully accuse me of nonsense like this I'm quite sure this isn't the first  you've done this lets make it the last. 

Thanks 

[Scott Dierking]

11 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I did NOT 

Show me PROOF 

Please don't put words in my mouth or wrongfully accuse me of nonsense like this I'm quite sure this isn't the first  you've done this lets make it the last. 

Thanks 

Think again......

Lets start a movement against Doug Marrone he's a LOSER

By joewilly12, January 3, 2015 in New York Jets Message Board 

 

[joewilly12]

9 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Think again......

Lets start a movement against Doug Marrone he's a LOSER

By joewilly12, January 3, 2015 in New York Jets Message Board 

 

Ok I did post that MAYBE??????  .........  I cant remember what I had for lunch yesterday let alone a post I made 3 years ago.   

Why would I put in my poll question that I should stop starting threads????????  

Whatever though you are not worth arguing with funny you should remember that specific thread 3 years ago?? Hmmmmmmmm

I posted in that thread I wanted Kubiak or Quinn. 

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Ok I did post that.........  I cant remember what I had for lunch yesterday let alone a post I made 3 years ago.   

You are CORRECT. 

You know how you can control that? Do not fly off the handle and post the first opinion that comes to your mind, without real basis.

Yes, this is a message board where ideas are valued and opinions expressed. Just don't feel the need to knee jerk an opinion on everything. Especially things you may not recall for good reason later.

We had a friend like this in college that we called Flib. Short for flibbertigibbet. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

Here, feel this pain:

http://phillyinfluencer.com/2016/01/here-are-some-of-andy-reids-all-time-top-clock-management-screw-ups/

 

Sound familiar?

Andy Reid is a great coach for 3 and a half quarters. In baseball, most starting pitchers do their job really well for most of the game, then need a little help to finish it out. I think you see where I’m going with this. The Eagles need a closer. A coach that they can bring in at the end of close games when they’re trailing, or winning by a touchdown or less (save situations). As asinine as this sounds, tell me Eagles fans wouldn’t strongly consider it.”

Lol. 

 

Event though they weren't at all long ago, I remember these games only after re-reading. I never really thought of him as being this historically bad in this area, probably because I'm not an Eagles or Chiefs fan. But it's nuts:

January 2017: Andy Reid still doesn't know how to manage a clock, and it cost the Chiefs another playoff game

The year before that:

January 2016: Andy Reid reintroduced us to the Andy Reid who has no idea how the clock works

Some of the comments below the this one were pretty good. I think the last one is my favorite. Sound like some of our own posters (except we complain about missing the playoffs, of course, so I'll give Reid at least that):

Maddening to watch this clock management. Can't imagine how it is for Chiefs fans.

— Dan Wetzel (@DanWetzel) January 17, 2016

Baylor could have scored six touchdowns by now.

— Michael Weinreb (@MichaelWeinreb) January 17, 2016

Nice, methodical scoring drive by the Chiefs. Well done. I really like their chances in the 5th quart–… Wait…

— Michael Silver (@MikeSilver) January 17, 2016

@KevinMKruse Does Andy Reid think there are five quarters?

— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) January 17, 2016

This is the most Andy Reid ending

— Drew Magary (@drewmagary) January 17, 2016

It's Kansas City. They're barbecue people not hurry up and move fast people

— Brian Floyd (@BrianMFloyd) January 17, 2016

This drive started in Jacksonville at the Super Bowl in 2005 and is juuust about done.

— Kevin Clark (@KevinClarkWSJ) January 17, 2016

The Pats knew the Chiefs would run the clock out for them. That's why they didn't run last drive. Belichick always a step ahead.

— Steven Ruiz (@theStevenRuiz) January 17, 2016

Maybe the Chiefs are just huddling together for warmth

— Bruce Arthur (@bruce_arthur) January 17, 2016.

This is just with the Chiefs not the Eagles before that, or however many regular season games this cost. I said in another thread, even Herm eventually realized he needed to hire Dick Curl. Reid is apparently too arrogant to admit he needs help in this area, and it has cost his team a number of seasons when the squad was good enough to be a champ.  

He also had to get stripped of his "final say in all decisions" authority he held with the Eagles and for his first 5 minutes with the Chiefs. The GM and HC should both be on the same page, but I'd be concerned with any one person having this dual-control because people are rarely this good at these two very different responsibilities.

Better than Bowles? No question. Do I stay awake at night wishing if only we had him? Not as HC. Maybe as OC or QBC. 

[Barry McCockinner]

Champ

[Biggs]

In fairness to Reid, he hasn't been great in the playoffs but he hasn't had the best teams in the playoffs either.  Yesterday he won the SB with a team that's not as good as the 49ers.  Shanahan played not to lose and Reid played to win the game.  The coaching decisions and play calling in yesterdays game was a big difference maker. 

 

[chirorob]

On 10/2/2018 at 7:13 AM, Barry McCockinner said:

How good has Andy Reid been working with QB's? He has gotten the best out of every QB he's been around.

• Brett Favre
• Donovan McNabb
• Kevin Kolb
• Jeff Garcia
• Mike Vick
• Alex Smith
• Patrick Mahomes

I think he's a lock for the hall of fame one day. He has a ring as an assistant but could very well have a ring as HC before it's all said and done.  

Anyway - if I'm the Jets I'm starting my coaching search by learning everything I can about Andy Reid and trying to understand why he has been so successful. The Chiefs may even allow an interview - not a job interview, obviously - just an interview to learn about the man and what makes him tick. I'm interviewing all the retired QB's who have worked for him and any other unemployed coaches that have worked for him to try and understand what drives that success. If nothing else maybe they can learn a few things about what it takes to be successful in the NFL. 

 

Yesterday put him in.

He took 2 teams to a SB, and now, finally won one.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

In fairness to Reid, he hasn't been great in the playoffs but he hasn't had the best teams in the playoffs either.  Yesterday he won the SB with a team that's not as good as the 49ers.  Shanahan played not to lose and Reid played to win the game.  The coaching decisions and play calling in yesterdays game was a big difference maker. 

 

Converting two 4th-and-1 plays was ballsy and making them both work, with a team that isn't really built to grind out a yard, was incredible.  But I don't think it's fair to say KC wasn't as good as SF.  You pretty much had best defense in league vs. best offense in league.  And on the other side, KC's defense and SF's offense are both good but not great.  I saw it as pretty even.  But I'll admit Deebo Samuel surprised me and between him and Kittle, they have enough weapons.  I just think Jimmy G is a Ryan Tannehill / Dak Prescott type.  Pretty good at everything when the situation is perfect, but falls apart under pressure.  On the other hand, Mahomes is more like Favre.  Kind of needs to get pissed off to get going.  But then it's "Hold My Beer" time. :).