Bowles should go before Macc....

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Macc has to take into consideration that Bowles runs a certain scheme. A true GM has say over player selection and game plans. This power structure is an abomination. 

I agree but he could have focused on offense and let Bowles use what he had. They and this horrible structure both need to go. 

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I didn't say that he failed because of a scheme. I'm saying that his draft selections are based on what his HC needs. He could have done better with the selections no doubt. I am not absolving him of all of the blame. What I am saying is that his draft would have been very different if he had an offensive minded coach or a coach with a different defensive philosophy. 

 Bowles was hired first. Maccagnan had a list of coaches he would work with but a guy looking for a job is going to have a long list. Bowles was ONE of the coaches he would accept working with.

His head coach "needs" bad players who don't make NFL rosters after just 2-3 years?

[smaxor5]

This fanbase loves to act like this GM didn't land the top QB in the last draft without giving up this years 1st round pick. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

His head coach "needs" bad players who don't make NFL rosters after just 2-3 years?

Bowles says to Macc, we need a linebacker. Darron Lee is available, so he picks Darron Lee. If Bowles needed a WR, we may have taken Will Fuller. 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I agree but he could have focused on offense and let Bowles use what he had. They and this horrible structure both need to go. 

I wouldn't have an issue if they let Macc go along with Bowles for as long as this gawd awful power structure disappears. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, Vader said:

We know Maccs underlings almost rioted because they were jonesing for Kamara and Macc refused to pull the trigger on a trade up. So instead, NOLA traded up. Kamara is looking like a HOFer.

What were the Jets scouts saying about Mahomes and Watson? And why didn’t we pull the trigger on either one of them? Was there consensus on “nope” or were there dissenting opinions?

bud we could have kamara, barkley, and L. Bell and we would still give the ball to Crowell to wipe his ass on TV against the browns..

 

Coaching is the problem. Get rid of the coach. Bowles has shown 0 of what was promised at least rex gave us great defense...

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Bowles says to Macc, we need a linebacker. Darron Lee is available, so he picks Darron Lee. If Bowles needed a WR, we may have taken Will Fuller. 

So the pro-Macc argument is that his job is to write a name down on a card?

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

48 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

So the pro-Macc argument is that his job is to write a name down on a card?

No. Is that what you think?

[HessStation]

7 hours ago, Vader said:

We know Maccs underlings almost rioted because they were jonesing for Kamara and Macc refused to pull the trigger on a trade up. So instead, NOLA traded up. Kamara is looking like a HOFer.

What were the Jets scouts saying about Mahomes and Watson? And why didn’t we pull the trigger on either one of them? Was there consensus on “nope” or were there dissenting opinions?

Boomer Esiason deserves major props on Mahomes...but to be fair he wouldn’t have looked so good w this surrounding talent and coach. 

[ZachEY]

34 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

No. Is that what you think?

It’s kind of the argument you’re making.  Macc just drafts whomever Bowles wants.

[TNJet]

8 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Both should go. If Chris Johnson keeps Mac and fires Bowles...then Mac is in charge of finding a new coach.

You thought his drafts were bad? I can’t imagine the HC he’d pick. John Fox, Lovie Smith, Jeff Fisher, Jim Fassel. 

I'm sure whoever he would pick would be better than Turd Blowes.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It’s kind of the argument you’re making.  Macc just drafts whomever Bowles wants.

No. That is not the argument I'm making. Macc's job is to draft players that fit on a Bowles' coached team. He is going to draft players that fit into his scheme and coaching style. If John Defilippo became our coach, Macc would likely draft players to beef up the offense. 

 

[Mark78]

BOTH...please!!!!!

[VinnyT16]

I’m fine with keeping McCagnan as GM, but do think the Johnson should hire an executive above him. 

Darnold is a wildcard right now and it’s important to have an unbiased set of eyes monitoring his development. 

[rangerous]

imo bowles should go first.  not that mac has been stellar but too much upheaval is not good.  i'm not up on how the heirarchy works but if bowles is responsible for getting the players developed then he should go.  you can say mac hasn't drafted good players but just how many players from college can step right into the nfl game?  not many so it has to be on the coaching staff to make sure the players know how to play the game.  and who knows if ik busts geno's jaw if there was a different coach in charge?  or how about wilky becoming a load or even all the bs that swirled around the 2015 team?  i think bowles let all thiose things get out of hand.  now we see crowell getting unsportsmanlike penalties or other players spouting off on this or that.  never their fault. and much as players like beham and williams say great things about bowles do they really mean they go through a brick wall for him?  how about blocking better or busting through the offense?

[CTM]

Keeping either 1 of them alone is stupid.

I'm sure that is what they will do. 

[bealeb319]

If we replace them both we just start the circle all over again Mac has not been bad Bowles has been horrendous

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[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

No. That is not the argument I'm making. Macc's job is to draft players that fit on a Bowles' coached team. He is going to draft players that fit into his scheme and coaching style. If John Defilippo became our coach, Macc would likely draft players to beef up the offense. 

 

The problem isn’t that defense was drafted. The problem is that bad to average players were drafted.

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, CTM said:

Keeping either 1 of them alone is stupid.

I'm sure that is what they will do. 

Bowles will be the fall guy and Mac will hire Bill O’Brien after the Texans fire him

 

This is the Cliffs Notes version of the next 6 months

[SayNoToDMC]

I thought This 2 years ago. I figured fine keep Todd for a year to get a high pick then dump him. I'm on the record. It's too late now, everyone needs to go. We wasted an entire year of Darnold's development already

[Spoot-Face]

Sure, Macc can hold the door open for Bowles and let him walk through first, but they should definitely be carpooling out of New York together.

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

He is drafting for a HC that was selected for him. He is limited to players that fit a scheme. Again, the power structure sets up the "GM" for failure. A GM doesn't report along side the HC. A draft strategy for a team that runs a 4-3 is different than a team that runs a 3-4. A draft strategy for a west coast offense and a spread offense is not going to be the same. 

Not all bad GM's are fired, and not all good GM's are given a chance to succeed. 

So what are you saying, that he can only identify and draft players who fit a narrow scheme that's ill-suited for the HC he agreed to work alongside almost 5 years ago? Also which is the totally different, non-Bowles scheme is it where Christian Hackenberg would have thrived? Or Lorenzo Mauldin? Or a pair of 3rd & 4th round WRs he drafted just last year and are barely PS-worthy? Or all the veteran/FA mistakes he's made?

No argument the power structure stinks, but it's also the only power structure under which anyone would hire him in the first place. If he's this bad at drafting players, which had purportedly been his one thing for 20+ years, what would ever give anyone the idea that he'd be good at "drafting" a HC on top of that, which he's never done or contributed to before (let alone the ridiculous notion that he's somehow earned such an opportunity)?

He's a bad GM. Really, really bad. One of the very worst.

I can see the pros and cons to keeping both of them through the end of the season or for firing both before that. But enough is enough. He's put forth no evidence to suggest the team is better off sticking with him for the next 3 seasons than trying out someone else who doesn't carry his track record of failure.

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Who cares who gets the axe first. They both need to go ASAP!!

The Only good players Mac has drafted are Williams, Adams, Maye, and Darnold. And they are all overrated. (Except darnold) Adams and Maye are not Ed reed or troy polamalu. Not even close.  Whens the last time you saw Williams/ Adams/ Maye/ make a game changing play. Spoiler alert: It's never happened. 

And the only thing worse than Maccagnans drafts are his free agent signings.  I think Darnold has the tools to be great. But I don't trust Maccagnan to put a team around him, and I don't trust bowles to teach and develop him. Both need to be shown the door immediately.

We have a franchise qb and 100 million in cash to spend. There will be coaches and GMs lining up out the door for this gig.

 

 

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So what are you saying, that he can only identify and draft players who fit a narrow scheme that's ill-suited for the HC he agreed to work alongside almost 5 years ago? Also which is the totally different, non-Bowles scheme is it where Christian Hackenberg would have thrived? Or Lorenzo Mauldin? Or a pair of 3rd & 4th round WRs he drafted just last year and are barely PS-worthy? Or all the veteran/FA mistakes he's made?

No argument the power structure stinks, but it's also the only power structure under which anyone would hire him in the first place. If he's this bad at drafting players, which had purportedly been his one thing for 20+ years, what would ever give anyone the idea that he'd be good at "drafting" a HC on top of that, which he's never done or contributed to before (let alone the ridiculous notion that he's somehow earned such an opportunity)?

He's a bad GM. Really, really bad. One of the very worst.

I can see the pros and cons to keeping both of them through the end of the season or for firing both before that. But enough is enough. He's put forth no evidence to suggest the team is better off sticking with him for the next 3 seasons than trying out someone else who doesn't carry his track record of failure.

No, I'm not saying that. 

He's not a bad GM. Not really, really bad. Not one of the very worst.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

5 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Whens the last time you saw Williams/ Adams/ Maye/ make a game changing play. Spoiler alert: It's never happened. 

 

 

It's hard to have rational conversations when people say things like this. 

This is just one series from Adams. You can argue that it's not game changing because the Jets lost, but this is what you can look forward to with Adams. 

 

[dbatesman]

14 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Bowles says to Macc, we need a linebacker. Darron Lee is available, so he picks Darron Lee. If Bowles needed a WR, we may have taken Will Fuller. 

It’s anazing how many good players Maccagnan wanted to take but couldn’t because Bowles told him not to, or because Woody made him spend money, or because we weren’t rebuilding yet, or because the cruel winds of fate dashed him against the rocks of circumstance

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

This fair/equal organizational "structure" was created because Woody interfered in the traditional hierarchy- shotty forced on new HC,  rex forced on new GM - bad decision based on bad decisions

The Jets made the GM and HC peers, a "team" with responsibility to improve talent and win football games - they found some success the first year and have not met expectations since. Both deserve to be fired and the experimental organizational "structure" ended. 

Hire a true GM and let that person assemble a team but life is not fair so flip a coin and fire one or get help now, Ariens, Newsome (VP of Football Operations)? something has to change since this organizational "structure" is  not working 

 

[CTM]

7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It’s anazing how many good players Maccagnan wanted to take but couldn’t because Bowles told him not to, or because Woody made him spend money, or because we weren’t rebuilding yet, or because the cruel winds of fate dashed him against the rocks of circumstance

Lol!  I do believe Macs performance has been quantifiably worse than Bowles but this counter narrative Ive seen that Bowles isnt playing a huge role in how this team is constructed is baloney. 

They both need to go together otherwise you are simultaneously limiting your replacement options and starting new on shakey ground.

The allure should be Darnold, top 5-10 pick and a ton of cap space to remake roster. 

[Jetster]

The GM picks players that fit the scheme & system put forth by the head coach. That's a fact & Bowles has been trying to duplicate what he had in Arizona.

Unfortunately he's forgotten that the Cards also had a QB (Carson Palmer) and a pretty decent offense. 

4 years into his tenure, the Jets defense still have wide open WRs running free in his sh*tty designed secondary. "We need to clean things up", has been this guys mantra for 3 years & the 1st quarter of this season. 

Bowles can't go fast enough for me. Get an offensive coach, fix this Oline & fill this team with some skill position speed. 

Macc knew Kamara was good, but we don't know the background of the decision to not trade up. But if a new coach tells Macc, get me some offense, he might be more aggressive. 

There is only one question you need to ask about Todd Bowles, after he's fired, how long or where will he resurface as a head coach in this league based on his record here in NY? This isn't like Andy Reid when his time ran out in Philly. Everyone knew damn well that Reid would find a job in no time based on his success. Bowles resume has NOTHING good on it as a head coach. The loss to Buffalo to miss the playoffs, and it gets worse from there, now 3 bad games in a row for his defense in his 4th year. Unacceptable, this organization is wasting its time with Bowles. 

[EM31]

I am with others.  They should go at the same time.  There is ZERO sense in hamstringing the new GM with a lame duck coach or vice versa.

Been there done that.

[varjet]

4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

I am with others.  They should go at the same time.  There is ZERO sense in hamstringing the new GM with a lame duck coach or vice versa.

Been there done that.

Maybe the answer is you make Heimerdinger GM but give him a real President of Football Operations to report to.  

[Dunnie]

BPA is not a bad strategy ... Just stop.

He did nothing special re the franchise Qb he utterly failed with hackenburg and the team was sucking so he was or any other gm was going to get one of the top 4 guys in this years draft.
The teams with long time Gms?  most of them have enough success early  on to become long time gms.  Four drafts is plenty of time to see if a guy is good or not. 
The thing about mac is he strikes out in two ways, #1 just drafting bad players and #2 having a terrible draft philosophy.

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[Dunnie]

GMs never have say over game planning.

Macc has to take into consideration that Bowles runs a certain scheme. A true GM has say over player selection and game plans. This power structure is an abomination. 

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[Dunnie]

Week 5 no ?

I thought This 2 years ago. I figured fine keep Todd for a year to get a high pick then dump him. I'm on the record. It's too late now, everyone needs to go. We wasted an entire year of Darnold's development already

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[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

2 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

It's hard to have rational conversations when people say things like this. 

This is just one series from Adams. You can argue that it's not game changing because the Jets lost, but this is what you can look forward to with Adams. 

 

No offense, but I dont see how that is a game changing play / plays.

I never said Adams was awful, just that he is overrated.