Pats-Chiefs

[chirorob]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Takeaway: the Chiefs proved they can really matriculate the ball down the field.

One of the all time great football quotes.

[JustInFudge]

11 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Mahomes is good, but I’d like to see him without Tyreek Hill.

4 times in the first half, he struggled when the field shrunk and he couldn’t simply chuck it downfield to a wide open Tyreek - resulting in 3 FGs and an endzone INT. He also missed a handful of routine throws including 2 or 3 would-be TDs. He struggled in the pocket all night long.

None of this is to say he isn’t good or won’t be good. It’s just that it’s probably real nice to play with the surrounding talent and coaching that Mahomes has been getting since he got drafted.

I didn’t think the chiefs even had a chance in this one. Everything was set up perfectly for the Pats to get a win in primetime and nationally proclaim that they’re still around. To my surprise, the chiefs gave them a good game, but I realllly wish they would have pulled through. Would have been nice to sit in 2nd place with the cheats this far into the season for once.

I posted this in the stupid troll thread about Mahomes.  Go look at what this offense had Alex Smith producing last year.  

Very similar numbers, except Smith was averaging at like 72% completion percentage and zero turnovers compared to 63% and 7? (4 INT's, 3 fumbles).  Alex was responsible for 15 TD's compared to Pat's 19.  Smith with Washington this season?  64%, 6/2 and about 500 yards less passing.

Mahomes is a baller and I'm comparing him to a veteran but that system is pretty user friendly for the QB.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I posted this in the stupid troll thread about Mahomes.  Go look at what this offense had Alex Smith producing last year.  

Very similar numbers, except Smith was averaging at like 72% completion percentage and zero turnovers compared to 63% and 7? (4 INT's, 3 fumbles).  Alex was responsible for 15 TD's compared to Pat's 19.  Smith with Washington this season?  64%, 6/2 and about 500 yards less passing.

Mahomes is a baller and I'm comparing him to a veteran but that system is pretty user friendly for the QB.

Fully agree. A guy who was nearly considered a bust in SF and then finally had a good season or two before being jettisoned in favor of Kaep, and Andy transformed him into a solid if not borderline strong QB statistically in KC.

Can you imagine Sam in that system with those playmakers?

[Thai Jet]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

How in the world, given the nature of officiating today, did the Patriots not have a single penalty last night?  No punts, no penalties.  

They are the Patriots that's why silly.

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I posted this in the stupid troll thread about Mahomes.  Go look at what this offense had Alex Smith producing last year.  

Very similar numbers, except Smith was averaging at like 72% completion percentage and zero turnovers compared to 63% and 7? (4 INT's, 3 fumbles).  Alex was responsible for 15 TD's compared to Pat's 19.  Smith with Washington this season?  64%, 6/2 and about 500 yards less passing.

Mahomes is a baller and I'm comparing him to a veteran but that system is pretty user friendly for the QB.

Kinda like Denver used to be with their RB. Who ever you plugged in there was getting 1,000 yds. Still surprised they traded Smith.

[section314]

10 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Takeaway: the Chiefs proved they can really matriculate the ball down the field.

The great Hank Stram.  That is an awesome video from Super Bowl IV. What was the play he called that worked for a TD that he screamed like 5 times? Wasn't it something like "42 power zone trap." Good stuff.

[flgreen]

14 hours ago, RoadFan said:

New England is going 12-4 and playing in another AFCCG.   Like I said 2 weeks ago when they were 2-2. 

The Jets have a QB.  But 2020 is still the best case scenario.

Probably.  Pity the NFL will be on strike

[CTM]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

I posted this in the stupid troll thread about Mahomes.  Go look at what this offense had Alex Smith producing last year.  

Very similar numbers, except Smith was averaging at like 72% completion percentage and zero turnovers compared to 63% and 7? (4 INT's, 3 fumbles).  Alex was responsible for 15 TD's compared to Pat's 19.  Smith with Washington this season?  64%, 6/2 and about 500 yards less passing.

Mahomes is a baller and I'm comparing him to a veteran but that system is pretty user friendly for the QB.

The system is QB friendly, however in the important stats that actually translate to winning and points Mahommes is significantly better:

Y/A 8.8 vs 8.0

QBR 85 vs 67

DVOA 41.1 vs 18.3

DYAR/Attempt 2.96 vs 2.03 

DYAR/Game 125 vs 68.4

+ he can make plays no other QB in the league can make right now. I don't know how you can watch both and come away thinking they are in the same world in terms of ability and performance.

The kid is a phenom.

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, CTM said:

The system is QB friendly, however in the important stats that actually translate to winning and points Mahommes is significantly better:

Y/A 8.8 vs 8.0

QBR 85 vs 67

DVOA 41.1 vs 18.3

DYAR/Attempt 2.96 vs 2.03 

DYAR/Game 125 vs 68.4

+ he can make plays no other QB in the league can make right now. I don't know how you can watch both and come away thinking they are in the same world in terms of ability and performance.

The kid is a phenom.

Is this on the year or the first 6 games? Because that's what I was comparing.

And these are all cool fancy stats but nobody argued that Smith was better than Mahomes.  All this does is further prove my point; that system took an average game manager and turned him into an MVP candidate.  

As far as these being the stats that matter in the W column, both QB's went 5-1 after 6 games. 

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Is this on the year or the first 6 games? Because that's what I was comparing.

And these are all cool fancy stats but nobody argued that Smith was better than Mahomes.  All this does is further prove my point; that system took an average game manager and turned him into an MVP candidate.  

As far as these being the stats the matter in the W column, both QB's went 5-1 after 6 games. 

To be fair Alex Smith was playing like a top 10 QB prior to injury his last year in SF and lead them to 13-3 the year prior.  He's also not been an MVP candidate in KC, but I suspect you know that. 

Reid is a great QB coach for sure, not denying that but to point at Smith's statistics as an attempt to throw cold water on Mahommes is outrageous, he's been way more effective statistically and way more impressive visually. Maybe someone cracks the code in defending him or he gets banged up but as of now he looks special in an Aaron Rodgers way. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

To be fair Alex Smith was playing like a top 10 QB prior to injury his last year in SF and lead them to 13-3 the year prior.  He's also not been an MVP candidate in KC, but I suspect you know that. 

Reid is a great QB coach for sure, not denying that but to point at Smith's statistics as an attempt to throw cold water on Mahommes is outrageous, he's been way more effective statistically and way more impressive visually. Maybe someone cracks the code in defending him or he gets banged up but as of now he looks special in an Aaron Rodgers way. 

Smith was never anywhere near as good as he was last year while he was in SF.  He was a check down charlie in SF and never sniffed 4k in yards like he did last year (though he put up Pennington like #'s so you probably loved him). Anywho, I'm taking about the first 6 games and he 100% was being talked about as an NFL MVP candidate after the way KC and Smith starter last year.  

And you're again making an argument nobody is making.  I"m not trying to poor cold water on anything.  Mahomes is electric, I'd take him over Smith 10000000x on Sunday.  I just dont think he'd be torching the league on fire the way he is on another team.  Put him on the Bills for example, I dont think we're talking about the next generational talent despite what we're seeing right now.

And all I was trying to do was provide perspective.  Mahomes is great.  Doing great things.  The simple stats (yards, comp %, TD's, turnovers), dont say he was that much better than Smith and the record is identical. 

 

[greenwichjetfan]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

And you're again making an argument nobody is making.  I"m not trying to poor cold water on anything.  Mahomes is electric, I'd take him over Smith 10000000x on Sunday.  I just dont think he'd be torching the league on fire the way he is on another team.  Put him on the Bills for example, I dont think we're talking about the next generational talent despite what we're seeing right now.

And all I was trying to do was provide perspective.  Mahomes is great.  Doing great things.  The simple stats (yards, comp %, TD's, turnovers), dont say he was that much better than Smith and the record is identical. 

 

Internet Message Boarding is tough with someone who creates arguments in their own minds. Chad'sTheMan has a habit of that. It's cool. The point was and still is: Mahomes is playing great, but it'd be interesting to see him without the coaching and surrounding talent he's enjoying in KC.

BTW: You see Sam's completion % this week? Pretty pretty! Although he did have another of those pesky unsustainable 20+ yard TD throws yesterday.

[CTM]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Smith was never anywhere near as good as he was last year while he was in SF.  He was a check down charlie in SF and never sniffed 4k in yards like he did last year (though he put up Pennington like #'s so you probably loved him). Anywho, I'm taking about the first 6 games and he 100% was being talked about as an NFL MVP candidate after the way KC and Smith starter last year.  

 

 

You are the clown that brought up completion %, not me.  Smith last year in SF his YPA was 6.61 which is 5% higher that what he put up in KC, he was 8th in DVOA I think too. Had he not been hurt and kept it up he likely puts up a similiar type PB season as he's done in KC 3 times. He was also a former #1 pick who always had ability.

re:MVP, more games is better if we had more for Mahommes we'd use them, we do have more games for Smith and as far as I know he's never had a single MVP vote. Who cares if he was an MVP candidate in early October, it's meaningless for a vet if he doesn't end up as an MVP candidate at the end of the year

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

And you're again making an argument nobody is making.  I"m not trying to poor cold water on anything.  Mahomes is electric, I'd take him over Smith 10000000x on Sunday.  I just dont think he'd be torching the league on fire the way he is on another team.  Put him on the Bills for example, I dont think we're talking about the next generational talent despite what we're seeing right now.

And all I was trying to do was provide perspective.  Mahomes is great.  Doing great things.  The simple stats (yards, comp %, TD's, turnovers), dont say he was that much better than Smith and the record is identical. 

Insists she's not throwing cold water on anything, very next paragraph proceeds to throw cold water on Mahommes season but calls it "perspective". 

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Internet Message Boarding is tough with someone who creates arguments in their own minds. Chad'sTheMan has a habit of that. It's cool. The point was and still is: Mahomes is playing great, but it'd be interesting to see him without the coaching and surrounding talent he's enjoying in KC.

BTW: You see Sam's completion % this week? Pretty pretty! Although he did have another of those pesky unsustainable 20+ yard TD throws yesterday.

So...he is on pace for 300 for 300 on balls over 20 yards? 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

You are the clown that brought up completion %, not me.  Smith last year in SF his YPA was 6.61 which is 5% higher that what he put up in KC, he was 8th in DVOA I think too. Had he not been hurt and kept it up he likely puts up a similiar type PB season as he's done in KC 3 times. He was also a former #1 pick who always had ability.

re:MVP, more games is better if we had more for Mahommes we'd use them, we do have more games for Smith and as far as I know he's never had a single MVP vote. Who cares if he was an MVP candidate in early October, it's meaningless for a vet if he doesn't end up as an MVP candidate at the end of the year

Insists she's not throwing cold water on anything, very next paragraph proceeds to throw cold water on Mahommes season but calls it "perspective". 

What's next, if Smith had t!ts he'd be a chick?  

How is saying that Mahomes might have different numbers on a different team while recognizing his unrivaled god given talent throwing cold water?  lmfao.  Relax hippy.  I'm not insulting your boo sauce.  He's incredible.  His stats just might look a little different on a different team...perspective. 

I love how I"m making a very clear point and you're arguing that's not what I'm saying? lmfao

Why isnt Alex Smith duplicating what he did last year in the same amount of time? 

EDIT: what Mahomes is doing now, is pointless because its October, per CTM, while he argues about stats in October. 

[CTM]

25 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Internet Message Boarding is tough with someone who creates arguments in their own minds. Chad'sTheMan has a habit of that. It's cool. The point was and still is: Mahomes is playing great, but it'd be interesting to see him without the coaching and surrounding talent he's enjoying in KC.

BTW: You see Sam's completion % this week? Pretty pretty! Although he did have another of those pesky unsustainable 20+ yard TD throws yesterday.

I see you managed to go a post without mentioning your secret crush Brady. Progress.

[Apache 51]

Bottom line, patriots continue to win games they need to win, Jets don't, Luck and Colts suck balls. Maybe just maybe when Brady goes Jets will be in it, by then it will be Mahommes and Mayfield and Goff in the way.It's a vicious cycle.

[CTM]

17 minutes ago, JiF said:

What's next, if Smith had t!ts he'd be a chick?  

How is saying that Mahomes might have different numbers on a different team while recognizing his unrivaled god given talent throwing cold water?  lmfao.  Relax hippy.  I'm not insulting your boo sauce.  He's incredible.  His stats just might look a little different on a different team...perspective. 

I love how I"m making a very clear point and you're arguing that's not what I'm saying? lmfao

 

Jif : how dare you accuse me of doing what I just did and am about to do again.

lol

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

Why isnt Alex Smith duplicating what he did last year in the same amount of time? 

EDIT: what Mahomes is doing now, is pointless because its October, per CTM, while he argues about stats in October. 

You are innumerate. This is all we have to go on with Mahommes, it wasn't with Smith. With Mahommes we have to *consider* that perhaps this what he is and the eyeball test would seem to corroborate it. Obviously if he starts playing like poo you reevaluate.

With Smith we have consider if not assume it was a 5 game luck walk as we have an entire career to back that up, which also answers your first question. (His numbers this year look a lot like every other year in KC + his last year in SF. Solid upper 1/2 of league QB/ game manager type)

[#27TheDominator]

1 minute ago, Apache 51 said:

Bottom line, patriots continue to win games they need to win, Jets don't, Luck and Colts suck balls. Maybe just maybe when Brady goes Jets will be in it, by then it will be Mahommes and Mayfield and Goff in the way.It's a vicious cycle.

Mayfield?  He wins games he needs to win? 

[greenwichjetfan]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

I see you managed to go a post without mentioning your secret crush Brady. Progress.

I see you've managed yet again (this time with JiF) to create an argument in your own mind, and then flail around to defend it...against no one. Not progress.

[CTM]

15 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I see you've managed yet again (this time with JiF) to create an argument in your own mind, and then flail around to defend it...against no one. Not progress.

Uh huh, cause the "perspective" of incorrectly saying Smith had nearly identical numbers and was a game manager turned MVP candidate in this system isnt synonymous with throwing cold water on the Mahommes hype (by claiming the system gets a bunch of the credit)

Jif has an extensive history of showing a limited grasp of the English language and digging in on his own POV,  what is your excuse though ? 

[greenwichjetfan]

49 minutes ago, CTM said:

Uh huh, cause the "perspective" of incorrectly saying Smith had nearly identical numbers and was a game manager turned MVP candidate in this system isnt synonymous with throwing cold water on the Mahommes hype (by claiming the system gets a bunch of the credit)

Jif has an extensive history of showing a limited grasp of the English language and digging in on his own POV,  what is your excuse though ? 

wat

[chirorob]

5 hours ago, JiF said:

I posted this in the stupid troll thread about Mahomes.  Go look at what this offense had Alex Smith producing last year.  

Very similar numbers, except Smith was averaging at like 72% completion percentage and zero turnovers compared to 63% and 7? (4 INT's, 3 fumbles).  Alex was responsible for 15 TD's compared to Pat's 19.  Smith with Washington this season?  64%, 6/2 and about 500 yards less passing.

Mahomes is a baller and I'm comparing him to a veteran but that system is pretty user friendly for the QB.

Andy Reid can build an offense

Also, it took a long time, but Alex Smith has become a good to very good QB in the NFL.

[Jetmech]

The Jets will beat the Patriots twice in the regular season and then in the playoffs. 

If they can win games without Maye, TJ & Enuwna that is real a possibility...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[JustInFudge]

23 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Andy Reid can build an offense

Also, it took a long time, but Alex Smith has become a good to very good QB in the NFL.

Did it take a long time or is the system?  Smith is the quintessential game manager who you'll never win anything with but be good enough to keep you in the playoff hunt basically every year at this point.  He's thrown for 4k once (last year) and has thrown for 20 TD's 3 times in a 13 year career, all 3 years in KC, career high last year with 26.  

He currently has 6 TD's vs 12 last year.  He's on pace for 3600, 18 vs. 4k, 26 last year.  Last year looks very good, this year looks pedestrian and almost looks like it's from the 50's.  

[chirorob]

11 minutes ago, JiF said:

Did it take a long time or is the system?  Smith is the quintessential game manager who you'll never win anything with but be good enough to keep you in the playoff hunt basically every year at this point.  He's thrown for 4k once (last year) and has thrown for 20 TD's 3 times in a 13 year career, all 3 years in KC, career high last year with 26.  

He currently has 6 TD's vs 12 last year.  He's on pace for 3600, 18 vs. 4k, 26 last year.  Last year looks very good, this year looks pedestrian and almost looks like it's from the 50's.  

Smith was good enough to get the 49ers to the NFC championship game, where the punt returner kept fumbling.   I never thought he should have been benched for Kap the following year, his numbers that year were stellar, 70%, on pace for 25+ touchdowns on a running team.

For the last 5 years, he completes 65% of his passes with about a 3-1 TD to INT ratio, which is good.  He can scramble, and move in the pocket.

He was a great manager, now I think he is pretty good QB in general.   He isn't a "carry a team to a super bowl" type a QB, but he can take a solid team to the promised land.   If he was on the Jags last year, I think they go to the SB.     

[Apache 51]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Mayfield?  He wins games he needs to win? 

Those 3 will be in the way....period.

[#27TheDominator]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:50 PM, Apache 51 said:

Those 3 will be in the way....period.

In the way of what?  Goff is in the NFC, none of the three are in our division and Mayfield isn't even playing well.  Excuse me if I am not particularly scared. The idea that any of them equate with having Brady in the division for 18 years is ridiculous.

[HessStation]

*sits patiently waiting for Mayfield to eventually implode

[Apache 51]

20 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

In the way of what?  Goff is in the NFC, none of the three are in our division and Mayfield isn't even playing well.  Excuse me if I am particularly scared. The idea that any of them equate with having Brady in the division for 18 years is ridiculous.

The only thing that matters..or are you part of the celebrate the division win generation?

[#27TheDominator]

13 hours ago, Apache 51 said:

The only thing that matters..or are you part of the celebrate the division win generation?

'What the **** are you even talking about?  You are not "blocked" by other good players. Do you expect to win a super bowl with no great QB in the NFL?  We whine about being blocked by Mr. GOAT in our division for 20 years, but even that is bullsh*t.  The idea that we would be blocked by someone out of our division or conference is ridiculous.  Almost as ridiculous as listing Mayfield who hasn't done sh*t yet

[Apache 51]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

'What the **** are you even talking about?  You are not "blocked" by other good players. Do you expect to win a super bowl with no great QB in the NFL?  We whine about being blocked by Mr. GOAT in our division for 20 years, but even that is bullsh*t.  The idea that we would be blocked by someone out of our division or conference is ridiculous.  Almost as ridiculous as listing Mayfield who hasn't done sh*t yet

Dude, the Jets suck and will always suck maybe if Skirt/RPO ball is still around 20 years from now the Jets will win the only thing that matters a  SB, prolly be flag football by then. The only other chance is a new owner, or the 8 dominant Org's in the NFL go to crap. Lets see what happens.

[Apache 51]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

'What the **** are you even talking about?  You are not "blocked" by other good players. Do you expect to win a super bowl with no great QB in the NFL?  We whine about being blocked by Mr. GOAT in our division for 20 years, but even that is bullsh*t.  The idea that we would be blocked by someone out of our division or conference is ridiculous.  Almost as ridiculous as listing Mayfield who hasn't done sh*t yet

The Jets haven't been blocked, they suck. Patriots have had no competition for 20 years they are 1-4 in SB against the NFC east. AFCE prior to 2000, or whatever what Jets x1, Fins x2? thats 50 plus years, 50 years of crap, the 1-4 almost 0-4.

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

Dude, the Jets suck and will always suck maybe if Skirt/RPO ball is still around 20 years from now the Jets will win the only thing that matters a  SB, prolly be flag football by then. The only other chance is a new owner, or the 8 dominant Org's in the NFL go to crap. Lets see what happens.

You seem to be on a rant.  I can't say you are making much sense.  The "8 dominant Org's in the NFL?"  The Qbs you mentioned are on the Chiefs, Browns, and Rams.  WTF?  The Browns are a dominant Org?  I only questioned you statement about Mayfield because so far he has been pretty poor. 

8 minutes ago, Apache 51 said:

The Jets haven't been blocked, they suck. Patriots have had no competition for 20 years they are 1-4 in SB against the NFC east. AFCE prior to 2000, or whatever what Jets x1, Fins x2? thats 50 plus years, 50 years of crap, the 1-4 almost 0-4.

Super bowl winning percentage?  That is a ******* thing?  You are the one that said blocked.  Not me.  I know how difficult it can be to remember what you said, but Jeez. 

[Apache 51]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You seem to be on a rant.  I can't say you are making much sense.  The "8 dominant Org's in the NFL?"  The Qbs you mentioned are on the Chiefs, Browns, and Rams.  WTF?  The Browns are a dominant Org?  I only questioned you statement about Mayfield because so far he has been pretty poor. 

Super bowl winning percentage?  That is a ******* thing?  You are the one that said blocked.  Not me.  I know how difficult it can be to remember what you said, but Jeez. 

Let me simplify things. There are about 8-12 successful, perennial, teams/0rg.s and the Jets aren't one of them them they had one great year, many moons ago. Other teams with less history have been and are more successful. Maybe when the owner changes this will change, however, other less successful teams with less time in football have passed them by wether it be on a regular season basis as a benchmark or a  division title, or more importantly  a Lombardi trophy.