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Jon Gruden: anyone still upset we didn't hire him?

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46 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Lastly, Carr was never that good anyway. The year they won 12 games, the raiders also had the easiest schedule in the league and still needed like 5 last-second comebacks. He's been garbage other than that season; and that's not even accounting for the impact of his injuries.

IMO, Gruden is an idiot and always was. The only thing that makes me question that analysis is his ability to rake in money being one.

Gruden on Derek Carr: "He is the strength of this football team. He is on my watch. I said it when I got here, if he doesn't play well, I've failed."

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

IMO, Gruden is an idiot and always was. The only thing that makes me question that analysis is his ability to rake in money being one.

Gruden on Derek Carr: "He is the strength of this football team. He is on my watch. I said it when I got here, if he doesn't play well, I've failed."

That's fair, but it's also not vastly different from a lot of people in management who think someone looks good on paper or in an interview, but when they come in and work with them day to day, it doesn't work out. From a distance, he may have felt that Carr was the right guy for him.

I just don't think that a failed relationship with a not-so-good QB is reason enough to give up on a SB winning coach who's coached up some of the better QBs of the 90's. Especially after only 6 games.

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On 10/16/2018 at 7:59 PM, BroadwayRay said:

As I recall, Fitzpatrick decided to turn back into a pumpkin 🎃 that game. There’s not a lot a HC can do when that happens. 

The entire team was not ready, it wasn't just Fitz.  The only guy who came to play that day was Marshall.  The coach didn't have them prepared to play.

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

That's fair, but it's also not vastly different from a lot of people in management who think someone looks good on paper or in an interview, but when they come in and work with them day to day, it doesn't work out. From a distance, he may have felt that Carr was the right guy for him.

I just don't think that a failed relationship with a not-so-good QB is reason enough to give up on a SB winning coach who's coached up some of the better QBs of the 90's. Especially after only 6 games.

What QB did he coach up? 

Gannon?  I guess, but he had a better season under Callahan after Gruden left.  He gets credit for Brad Johnson, but Johnson had a better season in Washington than he ever did under Gruden.  Brian Griese?  Jeff Garcia certainly wasn't any better under Gruden than he was elsewhere.  His performance with QBs has been very Todd Bowles-y.  Take a sh*tty vet, get some good production out of him.  Just he takes all the credit.

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45 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The entire team was not ready, it wasn't just Fitz.  The only guy who came to play that day was Marshall.  The coach didn't have them prepared to play.

I disagree. They went into the fourth quarter needing one lousy TD to seal it. They had three drives in the quarter and each and every one ended with a Fitzpatrick interception. The clock on his "magic" ran out.

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28 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

I disagree. They went into the fourth quarter needing one lousy TD to seal it. They had three drives in the quarter and each and every one ended with a Fitzpatrick interception. The clock on his "magic" ran out.

To seal it? We never had the lead at any point. Fitz was typical big game Fitz but the team was terrible.  Buffalo was dead and had a ton of injuries. If we come out strong that game is over early but we came out flat and Buffalo took advantage.

It's been a theme under Bowles with the team coming up small after big wins.  I am interested to see what they do this week. This is a classic Bowles game where the team comes out flat and loses, let's see if they can finally change that

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6 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Lastly, Carr was never that good anyway. The year they won 12 games, the raiders also had the easiest schedule in the league and still needed like 5 last-second comebacks. He's been garbage other than that season; and that's not even accounting for the impact of his injuries.

This is nonsense.

His rookie year was fairly pedestrian but he had 4000 yards on 61% completion rate with 32 TDs vs 13 INT in 2015. Let's see Darnold put up a season like that and everyone's gonna be fellating themselves.

After that was 2016 and he was having a great year but then he got his leg broken by Cole and really hasn't been the same guy since

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On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:26 PM, Klecko73isGod said:

Jeez, you grass is always greener people crack me up. 

Gruden sucks. 

...and posts like this crack ME up. Gruden built up the Raiders, left, and won a SB  with an underachieving Bucs team. But you say he sucks. Had a premiere analyst job for 10 years, during which countless NFL teams tried to get him to run their team. But you say he sucks, which makes you smarter then all those NFL people. A few guys here like the way he's starting his rebuild (getting two 1st rounders for Mack), and looking to further tear down a 6-10 team. But those guys crack you up because you say he sucks. My opinion? He's smart enough to look within his division, and see the Raider roster was never going to compete with Mahomes and the Chiefs. His best option was to rebuild completely, and he's probably looking to do it with a stockpile of draft picks that he'll build up as he trades as many of his current assets that he can. 

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...and posts like this crack ME up. Gruden built up the Raiders, left, and won a SB  with an underachieving Bucs team. But you say he sucks. Had a premiere analyst job for 10 years, during which countless NFL teams tried to get him to run their team. But you say he sucks, which makes you smarter then all those NFL people. A few guys here like the way he's starting his rebuild (getting two 1st rounders for Mack), and looking to further tear down a 6-10 team. But those guys crack you up because you say he sucks. My opinion? He's smart enough to look within his division, and see the Raider roster was never going to compete with Mahomes and the Chiefs. His best option was to rebuild completely, and he's probably looking to do it with a stockpile of draft picks that he'll build up as he trades as many of his current assets that he can. 

 

One big problem with this supposed plan: Gruden is awful when given the keys on personnel and draft decisions.

 

He traded away a 27-year old future HOF pass rusher, and will trade Cooper too, just so he can use those picks to draft a bust QB and WR.

 

And meanwhile, this supposed offensive genius is running the worst, most boring offense in the NFL. Against the Seahawks, Carr’s averaged “air yards” was 0.1, as nearly all of his throws were screen passes to RBs. Maybe that’s because the O-Line, run by the same Tom Cable whose lines were awful in Seattle, forced his hand. But does that also not at least partly fall on Gruden’s lap too?

 

A team with a young QB and elite pass rusher should not have been tanking. So if the plan was to tank the season, it’s a terrible plan. If that was not the case, then Gruden is doing a laughable job. He looks like a moron regardless. And he’s getting his QB killed in the process.

 

You’re giving Gruden wayyyyy too much credit. You really think he knew what Pat Mahomes would be from the jump? And because he read those tea leaves so well, he started this master plan to immediately turn the Raiders into a laughing stock on purpose? Come on.

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11 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

I was always impartial to Gruden until he kept doing the draft

and loved every single pick, I mean if you are going to love every single player, what’s the point of you being there

He has to add to our football knowledge.  I feel like a real insider.  Spider Y2 banana. 

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

One big problem with this supposed plan: Gruden is awful when given the keys on personnel and draft decisions.

 

He traded away a 27-year old future HOF pass rusher, and will trade Cooper too, just so he can use those picks to draft a bust QB and WR.

 

And meanwhile, this supposed offensive genius is running the worst, most boring offense in the NFL. Against the Seahawks, Carr’s averaged “air yards” was 0.1, as nearly all of his throws were screen passes to RBs. Maybe that’s because the O-Line, run by the same Tom Cable whose lines were awful in Seattle, forced his hand. But does that also not at least partly fall on Gruden’s lap too?

 

A team with a young QB and elite pass rusher should not have been tanking. So if the plan was to tank the season, it’s a terrible plan. If that was not the case, then Gruden is doing a laughable job. He looks like a moron regardless. And he’s getting his QB killed in the process.

 

You’re giving Gruden wayyyyy too much credit. You really think he knew what Pat Mahomes would be from the jump? And because he read those tea leaves so well, he started this master plan to immediately turn the Raiders into a laughing stock on purpose? Come on.

Screen passes to WRs > screen passes to RBs?

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At least Gruden will make next April's draft interesting.  It looked for a few weeks like the NYG would be the only team in the Herbert sweepstakes.  Now it's a 2-team race and the jockeying will be interesting.  Raiders have the edge with 2 1st rounders assuming the Giants don't finish dead last and get the #1 pick.  If that happens, then all the picks in the world won't matter.  Both teams are clearly gunning for the top QB so unless we have a Goff/Wentz situation, one of them is going to suffer extreme disappointment. 

Who knows, we may see the Giants go into next season with Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starting QB.

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13 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

I was always impartial to Gruden until he kept doing the draft

and loved every single pick, I mean if you are going to love every single player, what’s the point of you being there

Gruden’s qb Show on ESPN -  I thought he came across as the phonies most insincere POS

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2 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

Why? He was at least entertaining. This new MNF crew should be CBS's J team. 

Gruden is a horrible announcer he acts like every qb is good meanwhile you can tell he thinks they all suck

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

One big problem with this supposed plan: Gruden is awful when given the keys on personnel and draft decisions.

 

He traded away a 27-year old future HOF pass rusher, and will trade Cooper too, just so he can use those picks to draft a bust QB and WR.

 

And meanwhile, this supposed offensive genius is running the worst, most boring offense in the NFL. Against the Seahawks, Carr’s averaged “air yards” was 0.1, as nearly all of his throws were screen passes to RBs. Maybe that’s because the O-Line, run by the same Tom Cable whose lines were awful in Seattle, forced his hand. But does that also not at least partly fall on Gruden’s lap too?

 

A team with a young QB and elite pass rusher should not have been tanking. So if the plan was to tank the season, it’s a terrible plan. If that was not the case, then Gruden is doing a laughable job. He looks like a moron regardless. And he’s getting his QB killed in the process.

 

You’re giving Gruden wayyyyy too much credit. You really think he knew what Pat Mahomes would be from the jump? And because he read those tea leaves so well, he started this master plan to immediately turn the Raiders into a laughing stock on purpose? Come on.

 Your first sentence is only your opinion, and assumes you are smarter then all the teams who have hired and tried to hire Gruden. Unlikely.      2nd sentence: If you think Mack is worth 20+ million long term on a 6-10 team fine. If you think the Raiders did very well getting 2 1st rd picks for him, you think Gruden made a good trade and think like me. Your statement about him drafting the QB and WR isn't worthy of a reply, it's only you ranting.     3rd paragraph: again, your opinion, where you think you know more about Cable then the teams that hired him. Doubtful.       4th paragraph: again your opinion, but a fairly reasonable one. Again though you assume you know the overall talent on a 6-10 team better then its coach/GM, and have judged the rebuild 6 games into his first year. He's yet to accrue all the draft capital and cap space he wants, much less use it yet. C'mon.       5th paragraph: Maybe I am giving Gruden too much credit,, but with all the film he watched, and the interviews he did with Mahomes and his coaches for his ESPN QB series and his analyst roles, I think Gruden had a pretty good idea what Mahomes could be. I also think that the play of the Raider team so far, minus only Mack from last year, supports Gruden's decision to tear it down. That's my opinion

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

At least Gruden will make next April's draft interesting.  It looked for a few weeks like the NYG would be the only team in the Herbert sweepstakes.  Now it's a 2-team race and the jockeying will be interesting.  Raiders have the edge with 2 1st rounders assuming the Giants don't finish dead last and get the #1 pick.  If that happens, then all the picks in the world won't matter.  Both teams are clearly gunning for the top QB so unless we have a Goff/Wentz situation, one of them is going to suffer extreme disappointment. 

Who knows, we may see the Giants go into next season with Ryan Fitzpatrick as their starting QB.

Giants should bring back Hostetler

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5 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I love discussions like this. They are the reason I enjoy Jet Nation as much as I do. So keep in mind I'm discussing, not arguing. Your first sentence is only your opinion, and assumes you are smarter then all the teams who have hired and tried to hire Gruden. Unlikely.      2nd sentence: If you think Mack is worth 20+ million long term on a 6-10 team fine. If you think the Raiders did very well getting 2 1st rd picks for him, you think Gruden made a good trade and think like me. Your statement about him drafting the QB and WR isn't worthy of a reply, it's only you ranting.     3rd paragraph: again, your opinion, which you think you know more about Cable then the teams that hired him. Doubtful.       4th paragraph: again your opinion, but a fairly reasonable one. Again though you assume you know the overall talent on a 6-10 team better, and have judged the rebuild 6 games into his first year. He's yet to accrue all the draft capital and cap space he wants, much less use it yet. C'mon.       5th paragraph: Maybe I am, but with all the film he watched, and the interviews he did with Mahomes and his coaches for his ESPN QB series and his analyst roles, I think Gruden had a pretty good idea what Mahomes could be. I also think that the play of the Raider team so far, minus only Mack from last year, supports Gruden's decision to tear it down. That's my opinion

Multiple teams hired Rich Kotite who worked for Walton, Buddy Ryan, Sam Rutigliano and Hank Stram.  I guess our opinions of him were unfounded.

Jon Gruden knew that Patrick Mahomes would be a stud and that he should concede the division to him before he played his second game in the NFL.  After interviews with the player and his coaches for his ESPN Qb series and his analyst role, as well as 4 years of watching him start in the NFL (3 at a pro bowl level) while having a continuing and close relationship with the Raiders,  Jon Gruden was completely hoodwinked into believing that Derek Carr was a viable starting QB and was stuck with a lemon.

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6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Multiple teams hired Rich Kotite who worked for Walton, Buddy Ryan, Sam Rutigliano and Hank Stram.  I guess our opinions of him were unfounded.

Jon Gruden knew that Patrick Mahomes would be a stud and that he should concede the division to him before he played his second game in the NFL.  After interviews with the player and his coaches for his ESPN Qb series and his analyst role, as well as 4 years of watching him start in the NFL (3 at a pro bowl level) while having a continuing and close relationship with the Raiders,  Jon Gruden was completely hoodwinked into believing that Derek Carr was a viable starting QB and was stuck with a lemon.

Did you ever watch his show?  Gruden thought Hackenberg was going to be good

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2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

He has to add to our football knowledge.  I feel like a real insider.  Spider Y2 banana. 

Screen passes to WRs > screen passes to RBs?

Apparently WR's were only targeted 13 times in that Seattle game.  I have no idea what they're doing or trying to do. 

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

 Your first sentence is only your opinion, and assumes you are smarter then all the teams who have hired and tried to hire Gruden. Unlikely.      2nd sentence: If you think Mack is worth 20+ million long term on a 6-10 team fine. If you think the Raiders did very well getting 2 1st rd picks for him, you think Gruden made a good trade and think like me. Your statement about him drafting the QB and WR isn't worthy of a reply, it's only you ranting.     3rd paragraph: again, your opinion, where you think you know more about Cable then the teams that hired him. Doubtful.       4th paragraph: again your opinion, but a fairly reasonable one. Again though you assume you know the overall talent on a 6-10 team better then its coach/GM, and have judged the rebuild 6 games into his first year. He's yet to accrue all the draft capital and cap space he wants, much less use it yet. C'mon.       5th paragraph: Maybe I am giving Gruden too much credit,, but with all the film he watched, and the interviews he did with Mahomes and his coaches for his ESPN QB series and his analyst roles, I think Gruden had a pretty good idea what Mahomes could be. I also think that the play of the Raider team so far, minus only Mack from last year, supports Gruden's decision to tear it down. That's my opinion 

 

Yes, I am smarter than the Raiders because no, I would not have hired Jon Gruden, who is a clown that hadn't coached since 2005, when the NFL was an entirely different sport.  Just like @HessStation and @JiF are well-documented to be much smarter than Mike Maccagnan, sometimes teams get things wrong and fans get them right.

Yes, most of what I said is opinion.  Because this is a message board, where people express opinions.  But your propping up of Gruden and Tom Cable because "The rest of the league would hire them" is silly.  Were the Chiefs smart to give Herm Edwards a HC job after he failed here?  Ditto for the Bills giving Rex a 2nd chance?  Of course they're not smart, and every Jets fan saw that coming.  Tom Cable's track record suggests he sucks at running Offensive Lines, and he's sucking in Oakland.  What a surprise!

And again, there's nooooo way you can argue the Raiders were planning to tank from the jump.  None.  If they were, they'd have begun the process of moving on from Carr already, especially with a talent-rich QB class this year, and traded Amari Cooper too.  The Mack trade was partly finances, as you mention earlier with your comment about him costing $20M per.  la

And have you noticed how after every game since Mack was traded, Gruden has complained about the lack of a pass rush generated by his defense?  Hmm.......

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43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes, I am smarter than the Raiders because no, I would not have hired Jon Gruden, who is a clown that hadn't coached since 2005, when the NFL was an entirely different sport.  Just like @HessStation and @JiF are well-documented to be much smarter than Mike Maccagnan, sometimes teams get things wrong and fans get them right.

Yes, most of what I said is opinion.  Because this is a message board, where people express opinions.  But your propping up of Gruden and Tom Cable because "The rest of the league would hire them" is silly.  Were the Chiefs smart to give Herm Edwards a HC job after he failed here?  Ditto for the Bills giving Rex a 2nd chance?  Of course they're not smart, and every Jets fan saw that coming.  Tom Cable's track record suggests he sucks at running Offensive Lines, and he's sucking in Oakland.  What a surprise!

And again, there's nooooo way you can argue the Raiders were planning to tank from the jump.  None.  If they were, they'd have begun the process of moving on from Carr already, especially with a talent-rich QB class this year, and traded Amari Cooper too.  The Mack trade was partly finances, as you mention earlier with your comment about him costing $20M per.  la

And have you noticed how after every game since Mack was traded, Gruden has complained about the lack of a pass rush generated by his defense?  Hmm.......

Ok, so I guess we have to agree to disagree. Funny you mentioned Kotite. He's a neighbor of mine in a golf community in N. Myrtle Beach. He's actually a nice guy, and a good golfer. It was strange for me to have to separate the guy who golfs from the guy who coached us at first though, LOL.

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2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok, so I guess we have to agree to disagree. Funny you mentioned Kotite. He's a neighbor of mine in a golf community in N. Myrtle Beach. He's actually a nice guy, and a good golfer. It was strange for me to have to separate the guy who golfs from the guy who coached us at first though, LOL.

Poly Prep's own.  My Dad played against him when he was going to Miami. 

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14 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

In all seriousness, I think there are plenty of posters on this board who are legitimately smarter than the Raiders. You could sit there on draft day with Mel Kiper/ESPN draft rankings and do a better job drafting than they have over the last 15 years.

Exactly.  Why do we always prop up these GM's and act like they're above criticism?  The "I'll trust a guy who's been in the business forever over some fan" argument is a tired one.  Why even have a message board if it's truly the case that these guys know what they're doing 100 % of the time?

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12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Exactly.  Why do we always prop up these GM's and act like they're above criticism?  The "I'll trust a guy who's been in the business forever over some fan" argument is a tired one.  Why even have a message board if it's truly the case that these guys know what they're doing 100 % of the time?

Because in general the fans are even more stupid than the GMs

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