PFF studs and duds through week 6

[detectivekimble]

5 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

All the Darron Lee haters are slowly fading away...

The twitter generation  refuses to give 21 year old kids a year or two to develop. 

Fatcessa and Maccaganan had a discussion on the FAN where they talked about how NFL players make the biggest leaps between years one and two and years two and three.  Writing these young guys off -- especially the ones who are known to work really hard like Lee and Adams -- is a joke.  

[Mogglez]

8 hours ago, varjet said:

The draft over the last two years have been filled with good Centers, but the Jets choose to draft other players.   See Pat Elflein over Adarious Stewart. 

Mac has a real mental block against evaluating and drafting OL.

Claiborne and Enunwa are FAs next year.  They should be extended now.  

Elflein has been a whole lotta "meh" this season.  The drop off between him and Long, who is hurt, is not large.  I want to draft OL too, but there is literally no value in drafting a C, G, or RT, high.  LT is the only possible OL position you consider drafting in the first 2 rounds.

[Beerfish]

Lee has improved greatly at getting ints in a zone defense.  He still is not a good cover lb and he is still not a good run stopper.  He had made big plays though which is what he and adams are drafted that high for to make big plays

[Mogglez]

7 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Maybe it's just me but outside of the snaps Spencer Long just hasn't looked that bad IMO. He's clearly a big upgrade over Wesley Johnson, as faint as that praise is.

Same.  He's been fine up until the injury.  On top of the injury, he's also had to compensate for Carpenter, who is a subpar fit for the Zone Blocking scheme, and Beachum, who looks like a stud one week, and a total incompetent buffoon the next.  

He's been fine, outside of the last 2 weeks, and snapping has been the only real issue.  The protection has been really good, for the most part.

[Rolloffjet]

All this hate for long smh. He’s been ok bet all you wish you had Wesley Johnson back at center.?

[Mogglez]

Also, Trumaine Johnson was grading out really well up until the Jacksonville game, along with Claiborne.  Then they both had a bad day and Tru hasn't come back since.  I know this place gets really pissy and whiney when players we paid for have one bad game, but the fact is that Trumaine has had, exactly, 1 bad game and everything else was very solid.

On top of all that, his one bad game came when our defensive gameplan was to give every single WR on the field a 20 yard cushion in Zone, despite having 2 of the best press-man corners in the game.  You guys think that maybe Bowles's involvement the last 2 weeks which have had us playing a ton of press-man has something to do with Mo Claiborne lighting it up lately?  If Johnson was in that same game plan/scheme the last two weeks, I'd bet that we'd be very happy with the results.

[detectivekimble]

11 hours ago, RoadFan said:

Again with this PFF nerd "Trumaine Johnson has been solid crap?"

If he weren't being paid what he is...  he would have been benched for;

-getting scorched on deep routes (Callaway and Moncrief).

-giving too much cushion on 3rd downs.

- lack of effort in run support.

- mental lapses.

-missed tackles.

Pick one... or all of the above...

 Tru's only defense is that Parry Nickerson isn't ready yet.  Not much of a case for a guy making that much $$$.

 

I wouldn't go that far.  He's been solid.  Again, it's a tough position to play and sometimes we forget what sh*tty CB play really looks like.  

 

[bla bla bla]

12 hours ago, varjet said:

The draft over the last two years have been filled with good Centers, but the Jets choose to draft other players.   See Pat Elflein over Adarious Stewart. 

Mac has a real mental block against evaluating and drafting OL.

Claiborne and Enunwa are FAs next year.  They should be extended now.  

Elflein, the 32nd ranked center last year. People love to bring his name up but he’s been bad. 

[RoadFan]

50 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

I wouldn't go that far.  He's been solid.  Again, it's a tough position to play and sometimes we forget what sh*tty CB play really looks like.  

 

He's been terrible.   I can get heated in debates sometimes... you know your stuff and I think you just haven't seen it yet.   So I am only going to say this, watch Tru independently more closely.  You'll see.  The most infuriating thing is when he stands around from five feet away and watches his teammates tackle the ball carrier.   Doesn't help.  Doesn't get in there and try to knock the ball out.  A couple of times I think I actually saw him back away.   That is worse than watching guys burn him deep by 4 or 5 steps.

 

[New York Mick]

21 hours ago, Paradis said:

Spencer long was mostly awful w/ WAS... i didn't understand the excitement when we signed him... now it's becoming a serious problem. 

I’ve been saying this since we signed him. 

[New York Mick]

4 hours ago, Rolloffjet said:

All this hate for long smh. He’s been ok bet all you wish you had Wesley Johnson back at center.?

No I wish they would of drafted a C since they’ve needed one since Mangold left. 

[GreenFish]

12 hours ago, varjet said:

We could have signed Richburg or Jensen.  Mac appeared to want to go the bargain basement route.  

Stewart over Elflein is up there with the Hack pick.  

All those guys are not grading much better than Long. They’re all seem to be playing like Jags.

[GreenFish]

5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Elflein has been a whole lotta "meh" this season.  The drop off between him and Long, who is hurt, is not large.  I want to draft OL too, but there is literally no value in drafting a C, G, or RT, high.  LT is the only possible OL position you consider drafting in the first 2 rounds.

I agree with guard but disagree with RT. It’s just as important to have a good RT. Teams move edge players around. So it’s not like back in the days where defenses put their best pass rusher over the LT. I also disagree with center. We saw last year how important that position is. A good center can help a QB a ton by calling out the protection and stuff like that

[Mogglez]

Remember when the guys that said Darron Lee was crap and that "we'll all see" cited "PFF nerd crap" to make their point?

I remember.

Now the "PFF nerd crap" that backs up Trumaine playing well in 3 out 4 games is not admissable.

I don't even love Darron Lee or PFF, but I sure do enjoy seeing hypocrisy on display.

Also, mega lol @ saying that he doesn't like contact because he almost got concussed 2x in 2 separate games after week one for playing way too aggressive to make a simple tackle (aka recklessly trying to force a turnover)

Look, the guy didn't light the world on fire through 4 weeks but this revisionist history slamming him is actually hysterical.

1.

Bad.

Game.

In a totally different defensive gameplan/scheme that doesn't help out press-man CBs (Bowles v Rodgers)

R-E-L-A-X.

[Mogglez]

13 hours ago, varjet said:

We could have signed Richburg or Jensen.  Mac appeared to want to go the bargain basement route.  

Stewart over Elflein is up there with the Hack pick.  

Not even in the same stratosphere.

[Paradis]

Also, Trumaine Johnson was grading out really well up until the Jacksonville game, along with Claiborne.  Then they both had a bad day and Tru hasn't come back since.  I know this place gets really pissy and whiney when players we paid for have one bad game, but the fact is that Trumaine has had, exactly, 1 bad game and everything else was very solid.
On top of all that, his one bad game came when our defensive gameplan was to give every single WR on the field a 20 yard cushion in Zone, despite having 2 of the best press-man corners in the game.  You guys think that maybe Bowles's involvement the last 2 weeks which have had us playing a ton of press-man has something to do with Mo Claiborne lighting it up lately?  If Johnson was in that same game plan/scheme the last two weeks, I'd bet that we'd be very happy with the results.

Thank you truth slayer. How quickly some forget his first couple of games.

Very astute about press man. That’s what made Mo highly coveted and Tru’s calling card as well.... you’d think we might consider playing... yup, you guessed it; press man. Glad to see our DBs getting up close and personal last couple games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nycdan]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Elflein has been a whole lotta "meh" this season.  The drop off between him and Long, who is hurt, is not large.  I want to draft OL too, but there is literally no value in drafting a C, G, or RT, high.  LT is the only possible OL position you consider drafting in the first 2 rounds.

I want to disagree with this, but the memory of "can't-miss" prospects Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper keep me in check, at least in regard to Guards.  Yeah, there was once a guy named Larry Allen and he was absolutely worth a first round pick even though they got him in the 2nd round, but you are right, that you can put up a great OL with mid-round guys like Dwayne White and Brandon Moore.  

I'm not sure how I feel about the Center position though.  I know Center isn't really regarded as a premium position, but man, when you don't have a good one, nothing seems to work right.  Maybe you don't need a Mangold-level player, but after the last two seasons, I'd overpay to get one.

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

We were blessed to have 18 years of Kevin Mawae followed by Nick Mangold. 

Joe Fields before too

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Lee has improved greatly at getting ints in a zone defense.  He still is not a good cover lb and he is still not a good run stopper.  He had made big plays though which is what he and adams are drafted that high for to make big plays

Do you ever stop whining about Lee and Adams? Same old box S nonsense for Adams.  He's a top player, can't you be happy with that?

Lee's improved greatly but can't cover or play the run?  What?  

 

[j4jets]

On 10/16/2018 at 10:38 PM, detectivekimble said:

A few notes:

1) Good CBs are hard to find, so Mo Claiborne should be resigned.  Not sure why Mac only gave him a one year deal, considering he was solid last year.  He's going to pay big time for that **** up.

Mac has no clue how to sign FAs. Stinks at drafts unless he has a top 6 pick, and stinks in FA. Most of his long term deals were cut short due to poor play. Those that made it past 2nd n 3rd year are below average at the very best (Skrine, Carpenter n even Tru.). Claiborne’s deal wasn’t the worst considering everything else. 

[Bowles Movement]

13 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Elflein, the 32nd ranked center last year. People love to bring his name up but he’s been bad. 

Thank You.  People are acting like we passed on a All Pro center, but he is mediocre at best and has had some injuries

[Bowles Movement]

8 hours ago, nycdan said:

I want to disagree with this, but the memory of "can't-miss" prospects Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper keep me in check, at least in regard to Guards.  Yeah, there was once a guy named Larry Allen and he was absolutely worth a first round pick even though they got him in the 2nd round, but you are right, that you can put up a great OL with mid-round guys like Dwayne White and Brandon Moore.  

I'm not sure how I feel about the Center position though.  I know Center isn't really regarded as a premium position, but man, when you don't have a good one, nothing seems to work right.  Maybe you don't need a Mangold-level player, but after the last two seasons, I'd overpay to get one.

Brandon Moore wasnt even a mid round pick.  He was a FA defensive tackle that they converted to guard

[JoJoTownsell1]

14 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Elflein, the 32nd ranked center last year. People love to bring his name up but he’s been bad. 

Leonard Williams should have fun on Sunday. 

[detectivekimble]

On 10/16/2018 at 11:38 PM, detectivekimble said:

PFF isn't perfect, but still interesting.

STUDS

Isaiah Crowell -- #11 HB

Darron Lee -- #13 LB

Morris Claiborne -- #13 CB

Avery Williamson -- #14 LB

Jamal Adams -- #15 S

Quincy Enunwa -- #33 WR (was much higher, but dropped off big time the last two weeks)

DUDS

Spencer Long -- #33 C (this guy sucks and someone needs to get him away from Darnold)

Trumaine Johnson -- #41 CB (he's been solid, but he should be a top CB)

James Carpenter -- #45 G (to be fair, that's average, but he was good his first two years with the Jets)

 

A few notes:

1) Good CBs are hard to find, so Mo Claiborne should be resigned.  Not sure why Mac only gave him a one year deal, considering he was solid last year.  He's going to pay big time for that **** up.

2) Lee and Williamson are a fantastic duo.

3) Adams and Lee have a ton of upside.  They're already good at a young age and have much more upside.

4) Crowell is not a JAG.

5) Need to invest more in the offense.  The defense has all (except for Darnold) of the "blue chip" prospects.

 

Lee is now the #10 LB and Adams is now the #11 safety.  I'd build the defense around these two guys and a pass rusher and the offense around Darnold.  **** everyone else.

 

[Creepy Lurker]

4 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Lee is now the #10 LB and Adams is now the #11 safety.  I'd build the defense around these two guys and a pass rusher and the offense around Darnold.  **** everyone else.

 

I guess keep Leo since we have so much cap space. This way we have someone at every level. But honestly, offense is all that matters. Defense is more than capable as is. The offense is what’s hurting the defense. 

[detectivekimble]

13 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I guess keep Leo since we have so much cap space. This way we have someone at every level. But honestly, offense is all that matters. Defense is more than capable as is. The offense is what’s hurting the defense. 

I actually would not extend Williams.  He's too easily replaceable. 

[#27TheDominator]

On 10/17/2018 at 12:00 AM, Patriot Killa said:

Think he should get a 3 year contract this time around. 

 

On 10/17/2018 at 12:21 AM, detectivekimble said:

Agreed.  I think the defense is good enough to win with and the team would be 4-2 or 5-1 if not for the offense's growing pains.  So you keep that intact while improving the offense. 

Mo Claiborne will be 31 when a 3 year contract ends.  They may regret a 3 year contract.

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

 

Mo Claiborne will be 31 when a 3 year contract ends.  They may regret a 3 year contract.

Plenty of DB’s still play good by 31.

Revis is a lone exception for our team.

[Creepy Lurker]

18 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

I actually would not extend Williams.  He's too easily replaceable. 

I was leaning towards not extending him too but we really won’t be ables to spend our cap space and it’s not the worst idea if it’s reasonable. I am completely against drafting defensive tackles that early since they can always be had for cheap via FA without wasting draft capital. We already have him though so it may be ok to have 1 good/leader d lineman that we drafted. 

[jetstream23]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:03 PM, nycdan said:

I want to disagree with this, but the memory of "can't-miss" prospects Chance Warmack and Jonathan Cooper keep me in check, at least in regard to Guards.  Yeah, there was once a guy named Larry Allen and he was absolutely worth a first round pick even though they got him in the 2nd round, but you are right, that you can put up a great OL with mid-round guys like Dwayne White and Brandon Moore.  

I'm not sure how I feel about the Center position though.  I know Center isn't really regarded as a premium position, but man, when you don't have a good one, nothing seems to work right.  Maybe you don't need a Mangold-level player, but after the last two seasons, I'd overpay to get one.

The problem at Center is that we had it SO good for SO long.  Going from Kevin Mawae to Nick Mangold essentially gave the Jets two decades of stellar, Pro Bowl play at the Center position.  It's rare to get that but we need to find that next guy and I would really prefer to do it through the Draft.

[UnitedWhofans]

46 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The problem at Center is that we had it SO good for SO long.  Going from Kevin Mawae to Nick Mangold essentially gave the Jets two decades of stellar, Pro Bowl play at the Center position.  It's rare to get that but we need to find that next guy and I would really prefer to do it through the Draft.

The guy to get last year was Price but he was gone by the time we picked again.

[detectivekimble]

8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Plenty of DB’s still play good by 31.

Revis is a lone exception for our team.

Revis and Cromartie were pretty much done at 31.  Both guys were better than Claiborne and Johnson.

[Patriot Killa]

6 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Revis and Cromartie were pretty much done at 31.  Both guys were better than Claiborne and Johnson.

What does that mean? Peoples bodies wear quicker than others. Revis was better than Talib too and Talib has been productive far past 31.

[detectivekimble]

16 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

What does that mean? Peoples bodies wear quicker than others. Revis was better than Talib too and Talib has been productive far past 31.

It's a young man's position these days, especially since you can't even blow on a receiver.

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

It's a young man's position these days, especially since you can't even blow on a receiver.

I get it but 31 isn’t really old for a corner. It’s only old for some corners.