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Two laughable Bowles beliefs causing mismangment of games


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20 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Bowles postulate 1) It is better to make the game reliant on converting a on side kick and stopping the other team on three downs vs having the game rely on a 4th and manageable down. Even though it is borne out in statistics it is much more likely to convert the 4th down than have to convert a on side kick let alone stop them. Bowles continues to let this false belief ruin games. Multiple times he has punted on a 4th and manageable down 2 scores with little time left. He says this is because they will lose if they don't convert the 4th down while at the same time admitting the punt will make it necessary for them to convert an onside kick and stop them in 3 downs to have a chance to win.

Bowles postulate 2) It is no easier to score at the end of half with 40 more seconds and one less timeout. As seen this week Bowles doesn't realize the extra 40 seconds is much more valuable than having 3 timeouts vs 2 timeouts.

These are just core ingrained beliefs that he has that keeps coming up and giving us a lesser chance to win games than if he didn't have these erroneous beliefs. I am trying to distill these decisions into the why he does what he does. Can anyone think of other ones?

Doubt these are ingrained beliefs. I just dont think he thinks that far ahead. Jets are awful at (and probably dont practice much) situational football and have been since Bowles has been here.

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Again, not a big fan of Bowles, but this team isn't that good - at this point loosing 2 CBs, 2 safeties, and 2 WRs is too much for the team to overcome especially when playing against a good team. That being said, if they can find someone better, s*t can the guy. 

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29 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Doubt these are ingrained beliefs. I just dont think he thinks that far ahead. Jets are awful at (and probably dont practice much) situational football and have been since Bowles has been here.

He does the same thing every time the situation arises so it must be true. He has admitted in his explanation that he wanted to kick it, stop them, score and he then says the words explicitly convert an onside kick. He admits in his explanation that he knows it will take an onside kick to come back once he decides to punts the ball. You may mistakenly believe that he thinks he can stop them and get 2 possessions back but no he admits he rather make the game rely on an onside kick. Which is insane btw but no one seems to care and he keeps doing it over and over again.

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1 hour ago, bostonmajet said:

Again, not a big fan of Bowles, but this team isn't that good - at this point loosing 2 CBs, 2 safeties, and 2 WRs is too much for the team to overcome especially when playing against a good team. That being said, if they can find someone better, s*t can the guy. 

This. You should always upgrade if, and when, possible. There are no obvious better options. Should John Harbaugh shake loose in Baltimore, the Jets should pounce on him. Incredibly, there was talk of his possible firing last year and his current contract expires after 2019 I believe.  I know everyone wants the other Harbaugh, but Jim is too volatile. John is a steady hand who knows how to run a team and win football games.

Regardless, what coach gets the Jets' talent (I use that term loosely) to a better record than 3-4 so far this season? IMO, Bowles is doing fine with the talent he has. The biggest problem is the fact that the Jets' offensive roster is populated by players that are average to below average, and far more of the latter.  What sane person would expect a rookie QB to have success in that dynamic?

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2 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Bowles postulate 1) It is better to make the game reliant on converting a on side kick and stopping the other team on three downs vs having the game rely on a 4th and manageable down. Even though it is borne out in statistics it is much more likely to convert the 4th down than have to convert a on side kick let alone stop them. Bowles continues to let this false belief ruin games. Multiple times he has punted on a 4th and manageable down 2 scores with little time left. He says this is because they will lose if they don't convert the 4th down while at the same time admitting the punt will make it necessary for them to convert an onside kick and stop them in 3 downs to have a chance to win.

Bowles postulate 2) It is no easier to score at the end of half with 40 more seconds and one less timeout. As seen this week Bowles doesn't realize the extra 40 seconds is much more valuable than having 3 timeouts vs 2 timeouts.

These are just core ingrained beliefs that he has that keeps coming up and giving us a lesser chance to win games than if he didn't have these erroneous beliefs. I am trying to distill these decisions into the why he does what he does. Can anyone think of other ones?

Bowles also believes in injuring his players so this way he has an excuse when he loses. For that alone he should be fired!!

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2 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Bowles postulate 1) It is better to make the game reliant on converting a on side kick and stopping the other team on three downs vs having the game rely on a 4th and manageable down. Even though it is borne out in statistics it is much more likely to convert the 4th down than have to convert a on side kick let alone stop them. Bowles continues to let this false belief ruin games. Multiple times he has punted on a 4th and manageable down 2 scores with little time left. He says this is because they will lose if they don't convert the 4th down while at the same time admitting the punt will make it necessary for them to convert an onside kick and stop them in 3 downs to have a chance to win.

Bowles postulate 2) It is no easier to score at the end of half with 40 more seconds and one less timeout. As seen this week Bowles doesn't realize the extra 40 seconds is much more valuable than having 3 timeouts vs 2 timeouts.

These are just core ingrained beliefs that he has that keeps coming up and giving us a lesser chance to win games than if he didn't have these erroneous beliefs. I am trying to distill these decisions into the why he does what he does. Can anyone think of other ones?

Congratulations on being the first person here to ever use the word "postulate" twice in one post.

That said, I don't disagree.  Bowles does not have a growth mindset when it comes to the evolving NFL game.  Anyone watching professional football the past few years knows that you want as many possessions as possible and as many downs at possible to make good things happen.  Just look at last year's Super Bowl.  Just watch the Rams this year or the Chiefs.  I think Todd is still somewhat set in the 1990's when football was different.

I don't think the guy is a horrible coach but his in-game management is definitely bottom rung and he's not an innovator.  Also, let me be clear.  You don't need some new hotshot, young coordinator in order to be someone who innovates and evolves.  Andy Reid continues to be an innovator IMO. Rex Ryan, for the most part, was an exceptional defensive game planner and innovator.  The problem with Bowles is that things are changing and he is not.  He doesn't adjust very well either.  The Cleveland and Minnesota games are good examples of competitive, potentially winnable games that quickly and severely headed south after halftime.

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16 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Bowles postulate 1) It is better to make the game reliant on converting a on side kick and stopping the other team on three downs vs having the game rely on a 4th and manageable down. Even though it is borne out in statistics it is much more likely to convert the 4th down than have to convert a on side kick let alone stop them. Bowles continues to let this false belief ruin games. Multiple times he has punted on a 4th and manageable down 2 scores with little time left. He says this is because they will lose if they don't convert the 4th down while at the same time admitting the punt will make it necessary for them to convert an onside kick and stop them in 3 downs to have a chance to win.

Bowles postulate 2) It is no easier to score at the end of half with 40 more seconds and one less timeout. As seen this week Bowles doesn't realize the extra 40 seconds is much more valuable than having 3 timeouts vs 2 timeouts.

These are just core ingrained beliefs that he has that keeps coming up and giving us a lesser chance to win games than if he didn't have these erroneous beliefs. I am trying to distill these decisions into the why he does what he does. Can anyone think of other ones?

Every time things get precarious in the press for TB he wins a game or two and the press lets up..  Only Connor Hughes in the Athletic never lets go of reporting Bowles' awful in-game decisions.  My feeling is that if Bowles could go 8-8 every year he wouldbe allowed to coach this team forever.  That says something about our ownership.

 

Our GM has no authority over our coach.  How ass is that?

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17 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Again, not a big fan of Bowles, but this team isn't that good - at this point loosing 2 CBs, 2 safeties, and 2 WRs is too much for the team to overcome especially when playing against a good team. That being said, if they can find someone better, s*t can the guy. 

S*t is not the correct way to write Sh*t.  I immediately wondered if you meant sit can? Sat can? Sot can?  Oooooohhh Sh*t can!  i get it.  :-) 

you're welcome 

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1 minute ago, GREENBEAN said:

Right. We have to remember that Bowles was already hired when Macc got here.  This needs to stop. Macc should be allowed to fire Bowles and pick his coach. Then we ride that for 4 years and see. Bowles will never get us over the hump to greatness. It's not happening. 

I don't have 4 years to waste on this GM.  He was hired because he and Bowles could work together.  I have been squawking about this power structure since Tannenbaum left, but letting Maccagnan stay isn't the way to fix it.  They need to hire an overseer and let him set it up.   Maccagnan's drafts have not earned him the right to another 4 years of my life.

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19 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

Bowles postulate 1) It is better to make the game reliant on converting a on side kick and stopping the other team on three downs vs having the game rely on a 4th and manageable down. Even though it is borne out in statistics it is much more likely to convert the 4th down than have to convert a on side kick let alone stop them. Bowles continues to let this false belief ruin games. Multiple times he has punted on a 4th and manageable down 2 scores with little time left. He says this is because they will lose if they don't convert the 4th down while at the same time admitting the punt will make it necessary for them to convert an onside kick and stop them in 3 downs to have a chance to win.

The first one tells me all I need to know about his thought process. First, I believe it to be 100% true. Second, if you fail to grasp this simple example of optimal game theory you obviously fail all over the place at thinking the right way.

These are decisions that software could make today. Why do we have a dopey meat bag making the wrong decisions?

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is the problem with Todd Bowles, when nothing is EXPECTED he constantly has excuses being made for his bad coaching. Perfect example, "I don't know any other coaches that would be 3-4 with this team".  WTF does that mean? Have you watched the actual games?

He could have been possibly 4-3 without blowing a 14 point lead in Cleveland to a rookie coming cold off the bench & treating your personal 4 year built secondary like a f*cking drum because you didn't want to CHANGE what you do. WHAT? He completely changed what he was doing when Tyrod was in there. He was blitzing, playing man & when Mayfield came in they went all conservative playing zones, flat footed everywhere instead of playing downhill.

Todd Bowles coaches like a HUGE PUSSY! He should have been fired after Denver last year when he basically threw his hands up & QUIT COACHING! You never let time slip when you have 3 time outs, ANYTHING can happen at anytime in NFL football. A guy misses a tackle, a blown coverage. This guy plays everything close to vest like it's the 1950s. He stands on the sideline like he has the memory of an elephant & unlike involved coaches who speak to players on the sideline, make notes ect. but come on people, the only thing going on in Todd Bowles mind is a hamster on a wheel. Leave it to the Jets, the only organization that accepts 5/6 win seasons as growth. 

it means that losing is understood and accepted here, period.

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4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't have 4 years to waste on this GM.  He was hired because he and Bowles could work together.  I have been squawking about this power structure since Tannenbaum left, but letting Maccagnan stay isn't the way to fix it.  They need to hire an overseer and let him set it up.   Maccagnan's drafts have not earned him the right to another 4 years of my life.

Sure ya do. :-)

I get it though.  I see more upward trend with Macs than some people here do. It sounds like you are in that group. That's fine and I really do see that side of things. I am simply of the belief that Macc has done enough in his first 4 years as the GM, and all that entails, to warrant moving forward with him. Starting over does not guarantee success as we know better than everyone outside of Cleveland. 

Macc's drafting is getting more productive with his last class contributing regularly. That includes the Darnold pick even though a lot of people don't want to give him credit for that. It wasn't as much of a no brainer as people tend to imply. He made the trade to get the picks to make the trade to make the pick (Biiiiig inhale). Just look at the Browns and Giants for how simple it was NOT to make that choice. I do believe he was the right QB to take, but I digress. 

To make my real point, I feel the same way you do about wasting time, but just see it oppositely in most respects. I am tired of wasting more time starting over and watching some new guys who have never done it before make their initial mistakes en route to us choosing to cut bait. I'm exhausted. Macc has shown that he has many of the traits of a good GM and if he continues this uptrend with his picks,  we are very likely on our way to better days. 

My other strong feeling is that Bowles is not utilizing a lot of the talent we have to its full potential and think a stronger coach would do much better with the likes of many of the young guys we have on the team. Who knows? Maybe Leo would be the monster he was supposed to be if he were on the Steelers or with someone like Zimmer. 

 

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Trying to force things with a crappy team and the half running out isnt really good coaching.  Its what fans scream for no matter the talent level or game situation.  

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On 10/22/2018 at 4:56 PM, Sonny Werblin said:

Bowles is doing fine with the talent he has. The biggest problem is the fact that the Jets' offensive roster is populated by players that are average to below average, and far more of the latter.  What sane person would expect a rookie QB to have success in that dynamic?

100%

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On 10/23/2018 at 4:56 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

 

Regardless, what coach gets the Jets' talent (I use that term loosely) to a better record than 3-4 so far this season? IMO, Bowles is doing fine with the talent he has. The biggest problem is the fact that the Jets' offensive roster is populated by players that are average to below average, and far more of the latter.  What sane person would expect a rookie QB to have success in that dynamic?

Not sure how poor talent excuses terrible time mismanagement and lack of situational awareness. If you don't trust your offense to pick up a 4th down when down 2 scores late in the 4th Q, how can you think there's better odds to: (1) pitch a 3 and out and get the ball back; (2) score quickly; (3) recover onsides kick; (4) score quickly again? The problem with this conservative, play-not-to-lose coaching is that it only works when the other team makes more or bigger mistakes. How often does that happen with the Jets? When you lack talent, you need to be cunning and unpredictable... two descriptors that no one would attribute to Bowles. When outnumbered, the clever General does not form his men in a line and charge across open ground.

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14 hours ago, Jetster said:

This is the problem with Todd Bowles, when nothing is EXPECTED he constantly has excuses being made for his bad coaching. Perfect example, "I don't know any other coaches that would be 3-4 with this team".  WTF does that mean? Have you watched the actual games?

He could have been possibly 4-3 without blowing a 14 point lead in Cleveland to a rookie coming cold off the bench & treating your personal 4 year built secondary like a f*cking drum because you didn't want to CHANGE what you do. WHAT? He completely changed what he was doing when Tyrod was in there. He was blitzing, playing man & when Mayfield came in they went all conservative playing zones, flat footed everywhere instead of playing downhill.

Todd Bowles coaches like a HUGE PUSSY! He should have been fired after Denver last year when he basically threw his hands up & QUIT COACHING! You never let time slip when you have 3 time outs, ANYTHING can happen at anytime in NFL football. A guy misses a tackle, a blown coverage. This guy plays everything close to vest like it's the 1950s. He stands on the sideline like he has the memory of an elephant & unlike involved coaches who speak to players on the sideline, make notes ect. but come on people, the only thing going on in Todd Bowles mind is a hamster on a wheel. Leave it to the Jets, the only organization that accepts 5/6 win seasons as growth. 

...and to follow your logic here, couldn't the Jets also be 2-5 if he doesn't have his team prepared to come out and destroy the Lions on opening night on the road? BTW that win looks better and better as the season goes along the way the Lions are playing. Or maybe you could say they could be 1-6 if they don't take down Denver. 0-7 if they don't beat Indy? That same "pussy" coach also took a team most picked to be one of if not THE worst in the NFL last year to 5 wins, and that team played hard all year for him. Finally if you're this upset at 3-4 with a 21 year old rookie QB learning on the fly, and a team hit pretty hard by injuries, you're just not being reasonable. You're one of the I WANT TO FIRE BOWLES BUT I DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHO TO REPLACE HIM WITH group that just loves to start 10 threads every week we lose a game saying the same old crap over and over, basically to each other.

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26 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Not a Bowles fan, but pretty sure this team is 3-4 with anybody not named Belichick coaching them

No one can beat Usain Bolt right now. But we still wouldn't excuse someone on the USA Olympic Team running 15 seconds in the 100 meters with "well, the result would be the same." Bowles is making the same boneheaded mistakes since his first year. That, more so than the record, is the source of frustration IMHO.

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9 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

don't sweat it, you swung and miffed; just get back on the whore.

Funny. Almost as funny as you're usual bullspit. Guess it went over your head. Fear not someday you might just get it.

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18 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Sure ya do. :-)

I get it though.  I see more upward trend with Macs than some people here do. It sounds like you are in that group. That's fine and I really do see that side of things. I am simply of the belief that Macc has done enough in his first 4 years as the GM, and all that entails, to warrant moving forward with him. Starting over does not guarantee success as we know better than everyone outside of Cleveland. 

Macc's drafting is getting more productive with his last class contributing regularly. That includes the Darnold pick even though a lot of people don't want to give him credit for that. It wasn't as much of a no brainer as people tend to imply. He made the trade to get the picks to make the trade to make the pick (Biiiiig inhale). Just look at the Browns and Giants for how simple it was NOT to make that choice. I do believe he was the right QB to take, but I digress. 

To make my real point, I feel the same way you do about wasting time, but just see it oppositely in most respects. I am tired of wasting more time starting over and watching some new guys who have never done it before make their initial mistakes en route to us choosing to cut bait. I'm exhausted. Macc has shown that he has many of the traits of a good GM and if he continues this uptrend with his picks,  we are very likely on our way to better days. 

My other strong feeling is that Bowles is not utilizing a lot of the talent we have to its full potential and think a stronger coach would do much better with the likes of many of the young guys we have on the team. Who knows? Maybe Leo would be the monster he was supposed to be if he were on the Steelers or with someone like Zimmer. 

 

I'm not sure how bad Maccagnan is, but there is no denying that he has not been good.  Giving him another year or two to see how things work out, maybe, but not - give him another coach and another 4 years.  On that I will have to take a hard pass.

Darnold may not have been a no brainer, but Maccagnan was all in for Cousins and as likely as not, he would have preferred Mayfield.  He put us in a position where we may have been selecting between Rosen and Allen.  

Bowles may not be the best at developing these players, but Williams is exactly what we thought he could be at the draft.  That is why he went 6th and not 1-3. 

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10 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

...and to follow your logic here, couldn't the Jets also be 2-5 if he doesn't have his team prepared to come out and destroy the Lions on opening night on the road? BTW that win looks better and better as the season goes along the way the Lions are playing. Or maybe you could say they could be 1-6 if they don't take down Denver. 0-7 if they don't beat Indy? That same "pussy" coach also took a team most picked to be one of if not THE worst in the NFL last year to 5 wins, and that team played hard all year for him. Finally if you're this upset at 3-4 with a 21 year old rookie QB learning on the fly, and a team hit pretty hard by injuries, you're just not being reasonable. You're one of the I WANT TO FIRE BOWLES BUT I DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHO TO REPLACE HIM WITH group that just loves to start 10 threads every week we lose a game saying the same old crap over and over, basically to each other.

Listen, I get it, you want to excuse the great Todd Bowles. You and I must be watching different games. So you think if we played the Lions again we'd win easily right? Well guess what, Patricia actually has turned them around and I'll guarantee you if we had to go up there again things would be much different. 

Im just storing away your Bowles defenses for the day he finally gets fired, and believe me he's getting fired because he damn sure doesn't have this team on a upward trend. If Bowles is here in 2019 we are not making the playoffs. Based on what I've witnessed from this guy posing as an NFL coach he'll be fired at some point, way later than he should have been. 

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