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GM Mike Maccagnan


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12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

He traded up and drafted a franchise QB. 

What else has he done as GM that improves this team as we currently stand.

I can't thing of anything he has done to improve this team.   Some of others fan that like this guy drafts and signing can  enlighten me. 

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You cant keep a GM that has virtually ignored the most important unit on your team while getting safety fever.


Yeah I agree. When you pick that high you need to draft a pass rusher. LT or QB. The only other option is to trade out, not take a safety. There are a lot of ways to present the reasons Mac should be fired. There have also been zero mid round hits in the draft. Herndon looks like he may be the first one but we are 4 years in now.


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I find that I'm very conflicted about Maccagnan. Whereas I think Bowles should be fired, and there's very little doubt in my mind about, I think the case for/against Mac is a lot less clear. 

 

Positives

He has a lot of decent attributes of a GM - I think he seems quite adept at trading/wheeling and dealing; his work getting the 2nd/Kearse for Sheldon was excellent, as was his handling of Teddy Bridgewater, and he pulled of an impressive trade for Henry Anderson.

I also think he makes some nice mid-roster pickups from either UDFA or just simple FA. So the likes of Crowell, Claiborne, Copeland etc.... are nice players for the money paid for them. 

He is yet to show he is great at giving the right guys big contracts (Johnson will be a big make or break on that when he returns) but generally he isn't too bad in free agency. 

I think, generally, in the above areas he's actually shown improvements and increased savvy as a GM, which indicates he is learning from rookie mistakes he made and is a good sign. 

Negatives

The most damning thing about him, obviously, is his work in the draft.

As things stand he's had two very bad drafts (2017 and - in particular - 2015). I love Jamal Adams and really like Marcus Maye but the rest of that draft is a complete write-off after one year (unless Eli McGuire comes back and rocks the world). As for 2015, the only player left is the number 6 pick who is bloody good player, but still not actually lived up to the hype of his draft-status. 

His 2016 draft actually produced a few decent players who are starters or decent rotation players (starters at ILB, RT and punter, rotation-level at OLB and a decent special-teams player). Not a spectacular draft by any stretch, but solid-enough and at least added a little-bit depth. Worth noting though, no real big additions at real big positions. 

The 2018 draft looks good so far - franchise QB, good TE, adequate d-lineman. Still early days but looks like it could be a positive one. 

So on the face of it, not too bad. But QB aside we're still lacking drafted starters in the key positions (OLB/EDGE, LT, CB, WR) aside from one rotation-level OLB who plays every down for us, due to the weakness of our roster.

He's whiffed on a number of WRs and CBs, and don't seem to have any time for LT (or, indeed, any offensive linemen). 

This is the big worry; for all he does the other things reasonably well, the big thing for a GM will always be the draft, and so far Mac has been poor. Do you give him another go, and hope he's learnt his lesson, or do you decide that after four years he's never going to improve? 

A lot may depend on how his 'non-Darnold' picks from this year do - can Herndon continue to shine? Can Shepherd go from solid to game-changing? Will Nickerson/Cannon show that they're learning enough to be able to contribute, or will they remain as players who are used in nothing but a last resort?

If enough can shine, it might give some confidence that his drafting/scouting has improved like his other-GM skills. If they don't, then it may be worth burning him completely and going completely fresh for a new Head Coach. 

Apologies for the long, rambly post, I just find my feelings about Mac very conflicted. I don't think he is the completely useless GM a lot of people think him to be, he's got pros and cons and it's balancing them up. 

 

 

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Just now, morny said:

I find that I'm very conflicted about Maccagnan. Whereas I think Bowles should be fired, and there's very little doubt in my mind about, I think the case for/against Mac is a lot less clear. 

 

Positives

He has a lot of decent attributes of a GM - I think he seems quite adept at trading/wheeling and dealing; his work getting the 2nd/Kearse for Sheldon was excellent, as was his handling of Teddy Bridgewater, and he pulled of an impressive trade for Henry Anderson.

I also think he makes some nice mid-roster pickups from either UDFA or just simple FA. So the likes of Crowell, Claiborne, Copeland etc.... are nice players for the money paid for them. 

He is yet to show he is great at giving the right guys big contracts (Johnson will be a big make or break on that when he returns) but generally he isn't too bad in free agency. 

I think, generally, in the above areas he's actually shown improvements and increased savvy as a GM, which indicates he is learning from rookie mistakes he made and is a good sign. 

Negatives

The most damning thing about him, obviously, is his work in the draft.

As things stand he's had two very bad drafts (2017 and - in particular - 2015). I love Jamal Adams and really like Marcus Maye but the rest of that draft is a complete write-off after one year (unless Eli McGuire comes back and rocks the world). As for 2015, the only player left is the number 6 pick who is bloody good player, but still not actually lived up to the hype of his draft-status. 

His 2016 draft actually produced a few decent players who are starters or decent rotation players (starters at ILB, RT and punter, rotation-level at OLB and a decent special-teams player). Not a spectacular draft by any stretch, but solid-enough and at least added a little-bit depth. 

The 2018 draft looks good so far - franchise QB, good TE, adequate d-lineman. Still early days but looks like it could be a positive one. 

So on the face of it, not too bad. But QB aside we're still lacking drafted starters in the key positions (OLB/EDGE, LT, CB, WR) aside from one rotation-level OLB who plays every down for us, due to the weakness of our roster.

He's whiffed on a number of WRs and CBs, and don't seem to have any time for LT (or, indeed, any offensive linemen). 

This is the big worry; for all he does the other things reasonably well, the big thing for a GM will always be the draft, and so far Mac has been poor. Do you give him another go, and hope he's learnt his lesson, or do you decide that after four years he's never going to improve? 

A lot may depend on how his 'non-Darnold' picks from this year do - can Herndon continue to shine? Can Shepherd go from solid to game-changing? Will Nickerson/Cannon show that they're learning enough to be able to contribute, or will they remain as players who are used in nothing but a last resort?

If enough can shine, it might give some confidence that his drafting/scouting has improved like his other-GM skills. If they don't, then it may be worth burning him completely and going completely fresh for a new Head Coach. 

Apologies for the long, rambly post, I just find my feelings about Mac very conflicted. I don't think he is the completely useless GM a lot of people think him to be, he's got pros and cons and it's balancing them up. 

 

 

He’s just been bad at drafting any quality players after round 1 when it’s almost a given with what you’re getting. You can’t build a team like that. And we now see it hurting us in a big way. 

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The only question is
Can you look yourself in the mirror and convince yourself that MAC can be trusted with a potentially top 5 draft pick and 90 million worth of cap space to spend based on his track record .
If you say yes you must be the guy who bases his retirement on winning the lottery


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29 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except he's not adept at wheeling and dealing. Most of the time he doesn't get a deal done, and agents recently listed the Jets as among the 5 least-prepared teams when it comes time for negotiations. His FA pickups are mostly garbage, just like most of his draft picks. 

His success rate hovers around 10%. The only "big" names he signs are those looking to collect one last time and then coast. That's why his "fans" need to manufacture it as a positive that we can dump his veterans after 2 years (as though he's structuring things so much differently and better than any other GM). 

Adams was not worth the 6th overall pick. Not to a team missing a handful of positions at higher tier(s). A safety that high, if you ever rationalize taking one that highly at all, is for a team that already has a QB and at least 2 among: QB, edge rusher, LT, CB1, playmaker WR and/or RB. Then and only then can you indulge in a luxury pick that high on a 2nd-3rd tier position like safety, RT, etc.

His 2016 draft set the team back 2 seasons by putting all his QB-prospect eggs in the Christian Hackenberg basket. Shell is not even average (maybe at best, since he has a good game once in a while, but so do plenty of below-average players). His ILB is also just ok even in his best season by far. I couldn't objectively say for certain that he's worth the 5th year option. His year 3 reputation is coasting on a week 1 PFF ranking where we knew their signals on offense. Jenkins is also below average; the kind of player who'd only be an acceptable starter if amply surrounded by greatness. His best attribute is how much better he is than the player taken a round ahead of him. Punter? That's not a starting position. Our punter is fine not remotely great; it's not something I readily give out kudos for picking up.

It's too early to say anything about the 2018 draft. If you don't like people trashing players after 8 games, then don't talk them up like they're studs and sure thing future studs after 8 games either. Before the end of 2016 people were saying such things about Juston Burris, and Lorenzo Mauldin the year before that. I think Darnold will be adequate at worst, and look for him to take a major leap forward next year, but I'm a fan and we really don't know. 

He is atrocious. The Jets will never sniff at a SB, or even being a realistic contender, with him as the GM. Never, ever, ever. He's absolutely horrible at this. There should be no conflict. 

 

Fair dos, I don't agree on everything there. I feel that he has been decent, the last year or two, at the "non draft stuff". 

I also agree that the likes of Lee and Shell aren't works beaters but they're solid/decent NFL players. I'm perfectly fine with Shell at RT and Lee is a good ILB - whether he is good enough to be a first rounder is highly debatable. Also, you're right the Hack pick is a huge stain against the 2016 draft. As for Jenkins - he's an adequate squad player, as said above, he shouldn't be a starter and that is an indictment of the roster/Mac. But as a player he's fine. As a draft, it was decent (starter on defence, offence and two on special teams, along with a squad level player) but not spectacular, as said above. 

I also disagree about Adams - he is a big part of our defence and is a huge player for us. He was a very good pick and looking at more neutral commentators (instead of either homers, or fans with a grudge against a GM) it's generally praised as a very good pick. 

As for it being too early to judge this years draft.....I agree, that's exactly what I said in my post? I just said that, early days, it seems reasonably positive. Whereas this time last year, Hansen and Stewart and no positives about them, for example. 

I suspect nothing I say will change your mind, which is fine. However I stand by my take that Mac has pros and cons and it's not simply a case of "he is dreadful". There's more nuance to it than that. 

 

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4 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

He traded up and drafted a franchise QB. 

What else has he done as GM that improves this team as we currently stand.

Not a heck of a lot. Even that trade up for Darnold was instigated and forced by his inability to get a QB sooner in his tenure.  Far easier to point out his misgivings as they are so outrageously prominent and illustrate how this chap is just way way way over his head.  

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21 hours ago, morny said:

Fair dos, I don't agree on everything there. I feel that he has been decent, the last year or two, at the "non draft stuff". 

I also agree that the likes of Lee and Shell aren't works beaters but they're solid/decent NFL players. I'm perfectly fine with Shell at RT and Lee is a good ILB - whether he is good enough to be a first rounder is highly debatable. Also, you're right the Hack pick is a huge stain against the 2016 draft. As for Jenkins - he's an adequate squad player, as said above, he shouldn't be a starter and that is an indictment of the roster/Mac. But as a player he's fine. As a draft, it was decent (starter on defence, offence and two on special teams, along with a squad level player) but not spectacular, as said above. 

I also disagree about Adams - he is a big part of our defence and is a huge player for us. He was a very good pick and looking at more neutral commentators (instead of either homers, or fans with a grudge against a GM) it's generally praised as a very good pick. 

As for it being too early to judge this years draft.....I agree, that's exactly what I said in my post? I just said that, early days, it seems reasonably positive. Whereas this time last year, Hansen and Stewart and no positives about them, for example. 

I suspect nothing I say will change your mind, which is fine. However I stand by my take that Mac has pros and cons and it's not simply a case of "he is dreadful". There's more nuance to it than that. 

 

We disagree, which is fine. But if you want to hang your hat on "nuance" (as you put it):

I don't consider an ultra-high pick to be a successful one if he's not dramatically improving the team far more than a typically-available, non-premiere FA signing at that position. Adams is a good player, and will be a starter for many years, but he isn't #6 pick in the country better than your average $6-8m FA box safety. No rational GM (or fan) with such an average starter is lamenting how they need to use the capital it takes to move up to #6 overall to upgrade that position. 

I'm not trying to dump on Adams, as it isn't his fault that's his position or where he was drafted, but he was an extreme luxury pick for a roster that then had over a dozen relative holes & needed upgrades beyond its short-term patches (QB, RB, 3+ OL positions, 2 WRs, TE, 34DE, NT, EDGE/OLB1, OLB2, ILB2, CB1, CB2, NB, FS, SS). Now obviously we could fill a bunch of those via FA, but no team has enough cap room to fill most with above-average talent that way. So you need to pick which positions you can make do with merely average starters (mid-round picks, or mid-level FAs if that doesn't pan out). With a need/upgrade list amounting to upwards of 8+ players on each side of the ball, it's mind-blowing that the two safety positions were deemed the most important.

Heading into the draft, they can rank their prospects in the same order by draft grade, but certain ones need to be highlighted in that, "He's good, and maybe he'll even be great, but to field a winner we honestly can do without this player. This high in the draft we can turn our pick into a pair of lower 1s and more. Given our weak roster across the board, a single box safety isn't worth those kinds of resources."

That's why Adams can be both a good player and a bad pick; he'd need to be an all-time great 1st ballot HOFer to justify that pick at that time. As such, I have trouble crediting Macc with the "success" of such a pick; even more so when the terrible roster(s) he's assembled played such a part in picking that high in the first place. 

The likes of Lee/Shell are the same. Shell is merely fine because he cost a 4th round pick and makes diddly on his rookie contract, but as he stands with half his 3rd season remaining, he's not a must-extend player. 

With the obvious exception of Darnold, these are his biggest plusses as a GM. And as happy as I am with Darnold, it's willfully blind to suggest he was the first opportunity to put a FQB on the roster and wasting 3-4 seasons isn't worth getting him over someone else (Cousins 2015, Goff 2016, Wentz 2016, Mahomes 2017, Watson 2017). Not to mention because he's seen fit to give the premiere resources - both in dollars and in draft picks - to the defense, by the time he did manage to get Darnold look at the crap he's surrounded with, pissing away his first season or two. 

I haven't even gone into the "nuances" of the hundreds of millions he's spent so poorly so far, nor the rest of his wasted draft picks and foolish moves: opportunity lost after opportunity lost.

He is dreadful. 

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We are now 4 years into the Maccagnon, Bowles regime. Still have a horrible record, horrible coaching, and really no set plan to improve. Now that we have found a QB it only makes sense to start with a new GM who will have the authority to hire the new HC. We need a new infusion of ingenuity and someone able to adapt during game time. What we have seen for the entire 4 years has been the same. A head coach who has no answers and shows no emotion or passion that he should. They both may be nice men, however this fan base deserves better than what we have seen. Lets get a new GM in place as soon as possible to prepare for a big off season and to find a legitimate innovative HC to develop our franchise QB that took us 50 years to find...

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19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except he's not adept at wheeling and dealing. Most of the time he doesn't get a deal done, and agents recently listed the Jets as among the 5 least-prepared teams when it comes time for negotiations. His FA pickups are mostly garbage, just like most of his draft picks. 

His success rate hovers around 10%. The only "big" names he signs are those looking to collect one last time and then coast. That's why his "fans" need to manufacture it as a positive that we can dump his veterans after 2 years (as though he's structuring things so much differently and better than any other GM). 

Adams was not worth the 6th overall pick. Not to a team missing a handful of positions at higher tier(s). A safety that high, if you ever rationalize taking one that highly at all, is for a team that already has a QB and at least 2 among: QB, edge rusher, LT, CB1, playmaker WR and/or RB. Then and only then can you indulge in a luxury pick that high on a 2nd-3rd tier position like safety, RT, etc.

His 2016 draft set the team back 2 seasons by putting all his QB-prospect eggs in the Christian Hackenberg basket. Shell is not even average (maybe at best, since he has a good game once in a while, but so do plenty of below-average players). His ILB is also just ok even in his best season by far. I couldn't objectively say for certain that he's worth the 5th year option. His year 3 reputation is coasting on a week 1 PFF ranking where we knew their signals on offense. Jenkins is also below average; the kind of player who'd only be an acceptable starter if amply surrounded by greatness. His best attribute is how much better he is than the player taken a round ahead of him. Punter? That's not a starting position. Our punter is fine not remotely great; it's not something I readily give out kudos for picking up.

It's too early to say anything about the 2018 draft. If you don't like people trashing players after 8 games, then don't talk them up like they're studs and sure thing future studs after 8 games either. Before the end of 2016 people were saying such things about Juston Burris, and Lorenzo Mauldin the year before that. I think Darnold will be adequate at worst, and look for him to take a major leap forward next year, but I'm a fan and we really don't know. 

He is atrocious. The Jets will never sniff at a SB, or even being a realistic contender, with him as the GM. Never, ever, ever. He's absolutely horrible at this. There should be no conflict. 

 

Kudos to this post, having the cohunes to say it like it really is. BTW, when was the last time we traded back in the draft to accumulate more picks? Wheeling and dealing? LMAO.

IMHO, McCagnan has made 1 superior move in all of his years here - trading up to 3 last year to get Sam. What makes giving away 3 #2 picks more palatable is his total and utter failure in the second round. His round 2 picks have been deplorable to put it nicely.

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18 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

His resume is solid. Started at the bottom. When hired...  I thought we had our guy.  He is a fuggin bum.

Our roster is swiss cheese.

I posted this about 2 weeks ago but at the JAX game, he got off the bus, I was standing with about 30 fans.  I screamed "HEY MAC" he smiled and waved.  I then screamed, top of my lungs.."You suck!!  Draft somebody who can fuc*in play for Chrise sake!!!  He hustled into the tunnel.

 

I would have kidnapped him and saved this fanbase a lot of trouble. 

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3 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Kudos to this post, having the cohunes to say it like it really is. BTW, when was the last time we traded back in the draft to accumulate more picks? Wheeling and dealing? LMAO.

IMHO, McCagnan has made 1 superior move in all of his years here - trading up to 3 last year to get Sam. What makes giving away 3 #2 picks more palatable is his total and utter failure in the second round. His round 2 picks have been deplorable to put it nicely.

I thought that “utter failure” was something that a cow could get but it better serves as a description of Mac’s abilities. 

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Mac is an unmitigated drafting disaster.  He didn't trade up to draft Sam Darnold.  He traded up and lucked in to Sam being there.  They never actually thought he would be available.  

And let's not forget, in 2017 Mac drafted Jamal Adams instead of Pat Mahomes or Deshaun Watson because he thought Hackenberg was going to be our franchise QB.    

 

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I think if you judge a GM by number of picks still in the NFL say 3 years later you have to also figure in the average no. of years in a player's career. Most players do not last long based on several factors esp injuries. Also every year there is a glut of new players who you can add to a roster cheaper. I didn't like some of Macc's early moves when he first came here. He didn't use much of the cap money he was left by Idzik well. He overpaid the wrong players like Revis etc. He made great moves to set up drafting Darnold. To me he has learned on the job and improved. I don't get rid of him.

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23 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Mac and Bowles are both coming back.  You guys are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think otherwise.

Bowles will be fired and Mac will hire his replacement 

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1 hour ago, GaryM said:

We are now 4 years into the Maccagnon, Bowles regime. Still have a horrible record, horrible coaching, and really no set plan to improve. Now that we have found a QB it only makes sense to start with a new GM who will have the authority to hire the new HC. We need a new infusion of ingenuity and someone able to adapt during game time. What we have seen for the entire 4 years has been the same. A head coach who has no answers and shows no emotion or passion that he should. They both may be nice men, however this fan base deserves better than what we have seen. Lets get a new GM in place as soon as possible to prepare for a big off season and to find a legitimate innovative HC to develop our franchise QB that took us 50 years to find...

The plan is to build around Sam and go on a spending spree next offseason 

 

No one has been a bigger critic of Mac than me but he did draft Sam seems to have finally hit on a mid round pick with Herndon

 

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13 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Bowles will be fired and Mac will hire his replacement 

So you believe that Woody Johnson and his puppet surrogate brother will change the long-held organizational hierarchy in which the HC does NOT report to the GM?  Woody (and little bro) LIKE that the HC reports to them instead of to the GM.  No way will they change that.  Woody won't relinquish that power.  It's like asking a 7 year old to relinquish conrol over his toys.  Nope.  This team will continue to be an organizational laughing stock.

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

So you believe that Woody Johnson and his puppet surrogate brother will change the long-held organizational hierarchy in which the HC does NOT report to the GM?  Woody (and little bro) LIKE that the HC reports to them instead of to the GM.  No way will they change that.  Woody won't relinquish that power.  It's like asking a 7 year old to relinquish conrol over his toys.  Nope.  This team will continue to be an organizational laughing stock.

I think Woody and Chrissy know they suck at picking GMs.  Macagnan for his screwups did draft Sam who was the best qb in the 2018 draft and we do have a lot of cap room moving forward

 

and there’s no one great that’s available.  Scot McCloughan is a drunk who advised Dorsey to draft Baker Mayfield over Sam, Jerry Reese I’d be interested in but I don’t think he’s going to do anything great

 

 

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20 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

His resume is solid. Started at the bottom. When hired...  I thought we had our guy.  He is a fuggin bum.

Our roster is swiss cheese.

I posted this about 2 weeks ago but at the JAX game, he got off the bus, I was standing with about 30 fans.  I screamed "HEY MAC" he smiled and waved.  I then screamed, top of my lungs.."You suck!!  Draft somebody who can fuc*in play for Chrise sake!!!  He hustled into the tunnel.

 

PRICELESS

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I can understand people who condemn both Macc and Bowles. I can understand people who defend one or the other. What I cannot understand is people who defend both. Mutually exclusive at this point. Either the talent (Macc) stinks or the coaching (Bowles) stinks. Most likely they both stink but it's simply not possible to say both men deserve another year IMHO.

If pressed on to give odds:

-Both gone: 20%

-Both back: 30%

-Bowles gone, Macc stays: 49.9%

-Macc gone, Bowles stays: 0.1%

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