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Priority 1 for the Jets-New HC.


johnnyjet
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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Ok so what do you do when the HC has had 3 Offensive Coordinators in 4 years and they've all failed, sans 1 season against a weak schedule?

The HC is a defensive guy and the defense sucks.

The HC sucks at in game adjustments and managing the clock.

The HC can't find an OC worth a damn to delegate too.

The HC doesn't run a tight ship that holds players accountable for on the field mistakes, such as penalties and effort.

What exactly does Bowles do well that you think he should be absolved of even some blame?

I’ve been saying this exact same thing. Yet the too cool for school crew keeps telling us that Bowles can’t be judged until he has a roster full of talent. 

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9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Ok so what do you do when the HC has had 3 Offensive Coordinators in 4 years and they've all failed, sans 1 season against a weak schedule?

The HC is a defensive guy and the defense sucks.

The HC sucks at in game adjustments and managing the clock.

The HC can't find an OC worth a damn to delegate too.

The HC doesn't run a tight ship that holds players accountable for on the field mistakes, such as penalties and effort.

What exactly does Bowles do well that you think he should be absolved of even some blame?

Geesh, he really doesn’t do anything good at all. I really tried to think of something. Have any players really developed under him either? Feels like a ton of guys who have the talent just haven’t taken the next step. 

Did he ever out coach anyone?

He just continues to play scared, and thinks the defense can do it all and keep it close enough to get out of their alive. 

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34 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Ok so what do you do when the HC has had 3 Offensive Coordinators in 4 years and they've all failed, sans 1 season against a weak schedule?

The HC is a defensive guy and the defense sucks.

The HC sucks at in game adjustments and managing the clock.

The HC can't find an OC worth a damn to delegate too.

The HC doesn't run a tight ship that holds players accountable for on the field mistakes, such as penalties and effort.

What exactly does Bowles do well that you think he should be absolved of even some blame?

Look, I'm not here to defend Bowles. I said I'm not a supporter of him. I was answering someone who asked what Bowles was contributing to Sam's progression.  But as far as your post, it's not factual, just your opinion. So you're making it pretty easy to give his side. 1- The D sucks? ha ha okay. Get a clue. 2- Game adjustments and clock management? Like all fans who talk about that, you don't have a clue about that either, or being a NFL HC. You like to talk like you do. 3- The OCs? would you be happy if he kept the bad ones? You're the guy who's big on firing coaches, LOL. 4- The tight ship, and effort? again what do you know about a HC running a tight ship? Bowles team overperformed last year, and they probably will again this year. So don't knock the effort. Penalties? Yeah we're the only team that gets flagged. But unlike what guys like you want, a HC can't cut every single guy who commits an offside or PI. He's doing his job in the real world, not bitching about it in a game thread.

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17 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Look, I'm not here to defend Bowles. I said I'm not a supporter of him. I was answering someone who asked what Bowles was contributing to Sam's progression.  But as far as your post, it's not factual, just your opinion. So you're making it pretty easy to give his side. 1- The D sucks? ha ha okay. Get a clue. 2- Game adjustments and clock management? Like all fans who talk about that, you don't have a clue about that either, or being a NFL HC. You like to talk like you do. 3- The OCs? would you be happy if he kept the bad ones? You're the guy who's big on firing coaches, LOL. 4- The tight ship, and effort? again what do you know about a HC running a tight ship? Bowles team overperformed last year, and they probably will again this year. So don't knock the effort. Penalties? Yeah we're the only team that gets flagged. But unlike what guys like you want, a HC can't cut every single guy who commits an offside or PI. He's doing his job in the real world, not bitching about it in a game thread.

One more thing, I'm done arguing this. Like I said I'm not crazy about Bowles, just sick of you guys posting 1000x a day you want to fire him. Anybody who wants to disagree with what I just replied to @Mogglez , think about this. If we sent my last post, and his to every NFL coach and player, who do you think they'd agree with?

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28 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

1. Yeah the Defense sucks.  Numbers and anyone with two functioning eyeballs back that up.

2.  When you consistently get beat by the same things over and over again, game after game, from Q1-Q4, it means you.arent adjusting to the other team.  Since that happens week after week, I can safely file you under the group of people without 2 functioning eyes.

3.  I'd prefer him to not hire 3 awful OCs in a row, but that's just me.  For the record, I'm not big on firing coaches, just the ones who deserve it (ex. Todd Bowles).

4.  Mo Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson were routinely late to meetings, missing many in the process, and were trotted out week after week until one such incident became public right before a game and Bowles decided then, and only then, that they should be held out of a couple of series.  I played organized football.  At any level of the sport, that sh*t gets you benched for an entire quarter at the very least by anyone who is competent.  As far as effort, I've got a folder full of GIFs that shows Wilkerson laying like a DOG on the field as recent as last year, yet he was still put out there every single week with Bowles telling us that he was "happy with his play" when questioned by reporters who noticed the same.  You want to excuse that?  Go right ahead.  Also, we're not over achieving by any stretch of the imagination right now.  We should have beaten Miami and Cleveland.  We're more talented than both of them on both sides of the ball, and were healthy during the matchups.  Instead, we got embarrassed in our home opener, and let Baker Mayfield walk all over us like we had never seen the guy play before and sh*t our pants at the idea of adjusting to him.  It was the easiest time I've ever seen a rookie QB have against any team.  This team, with better coaching, is 5-3 right now, not 3-5.  This team is far better than the last 2 seasons.  We're on pace to match our record.  I know math can be hard, but I think you can figure out that 5-11 is not an upgrade from 5-11 (twice).

5.  How many more seasons do you need to see our guys commiting stupid penalties, blowing assignments, not being aware of the situation during drives, before you start laying blame at the people who are paid to coach these guys up and make sure that they don't commit stupid penalties, make sure they are in the right spot at the right time, and make they are always aware of down and distance/situations around them?

LOL.  I'll let everyone else answer this nonsense.

Cotton? jeez, you're too cool. I like how you edit in a paragraph or two after I reply. THAT's BOLD STRATEGY! Yeah, you're just throwing out one fact after another, LOL. I call them opinions, but whatever. So lets just try to agree on this. You think I'm wrong, and I think you are. I'm fine with that. No hard feelings. I'm sure you'll have plenty of chorus members here back you up, you took up a popular position, and for what its worth you argued it persistently. 

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31 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Cotton? jeez, you're too cool. I like how you edit in a paragraph or two after I reply. THAT's BOLD STRATEGY! Yeah, you're just throwing out one fact after another, LOL. I call them opinions, but whatever. So lets just try to agree on this. You think I'm wrong, and I think you are. I'm fine with that. No hard feelings. I'm sure you'll have plenty of chorus members here back you up, you took up a popular position, and for what its worth you argued it persistently. 

Edited it well before you hit reply, but k.

Again, never called my posts facts.  They're opinions with evidence to back up the opinion and thought process that got me to form that opinion.

Your original "argued it well" was far better than "persistently" so while we're splitting hairs over edits, let's just call it even and agree to disagree.

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Ok so what do you do when the HC has had 3 Offensive Coordinators in 4 years and they've all failed, sans 1 season against a weak schedule?

The HC is a defensive guy and the defense sucks.

The HC sucks at in game adjustments and managing the clock.

The HC can't find an OC worth a damn to delegate too.

The HC doesn't run a tight ship that holds players accountable for on the field mistakes, such as penalties and effort.

What exactly does Bowles do well that you think he should be absolved of even some blame?

How is it Bates’ fault Enunwa, Powell and Robby Anderson are all hurt?

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I know the big trend now is hiring 30 year old offensive coordinators but the last thing Sam needs is to learn an entirely different playbook his second year especially when the current playbook is not bad 

 

im all for firing Bowles but I don’t think Bates deserves to be fired the guy’s been here 8 freaking games with a rookie qb and all his WRs are injured

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3 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

As far as Sam, I think that's more on Bates, the QB coach and possibly McCown. I feel the HC can't micro manage every aspect of the team, It's his job to oversee what his staff is doing. Believe me, I get frustrated watching this team play as often as anybody, but I think the Jets are doing a good job with Sam so far. It just sucked he had basically no skill position help Sunday, but that wasn't on Bowles. Looking back now, something positive might even come out of all these injuries. Deontay played well, we'll get a look at Cannon and a few other young guys. This is the year to do that.

The buck stops with the Head Coach,,, you don't think he is responsible for the way a first round draft pick QB is being utilized? Everything that happens with this team is his responsibility, especially the QB the franchise has been waiting 50 years for. Maybe Bowles feels the same way as you and believes he isn't responsible for everything that happens, thats why he is over his head and will be gone very soon....

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9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I know the big trend now is hiring 30 year old offensive coordinators but the last thing Sam needs is to learn an entirely different playbook his second year especially when the current playbook is not bad 

 

im all for firing Bowles but I don’t think Bates deserves to be fired the guy’s been here 8 freaking games with a rookie qb and all his WRs are injured

I totally agree with you here. I want continuity on offense for Sam, players should fit into the system. Get Bates/Darnold Tyrell Williams & Bell in FA, draft K'neal Harry in the 1st, resign Q to a reasonable contract (he's not a #1), give Anderson a 2nd round tender, keep Deonte Burnett, use Draft capital after 1st for Oline and go to camp with these guys & now you can judge Bates all you want in Darnolds 2nd year with legit NFL weapons. 

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If Bowles can't make chicken salad out of...and we have another bad second half and 5 W season ok. Give someone else a chance probably a young coordinator. We need to see improvement. If a 7 W or 8 W season I would keep him. Most people in the NFL think he is a competent guy but not shared by some fans of the team. Bowles is a D and a secondary guy and I don't like what I am seeing every Sunday in those depts. Too many big holes in the secondary and uncovered receivers. It seems like we are getting out coached by opponents OCs, We have talent the scheme isn't there. 

 

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23 hours ago, foxgt90 said:

Some teams occasionally win a game BECAUSE of their coach. The Jets occasionally win a game DESPITE their coach

Jets fans in a nutshell - when we win, it's because of the players.  When we lose, it's because of the coach.

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8 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

If Bowles can't make chicken salad out of...and we have another bad second half and 5 W season ok. Give someone else a chance probably a young coordinator. We need to see improvement. If a 7 W or 8 W season I would keep him. Most people in the NFL think he is a competent guy but not shared by some fans of the team. Bowles is a D and a secondary guy and I don't like what I am seeing every Sunday in those depts. Too many big holes in the secondary and uncovered receivers. It seems like we are getting out coached by opponents OCs, We have talent the scheme isn't there. 

 

He had chicken salad in 2015. Blew it big time.

He had chicken salad in 2016.  Blew it even worse.

2017 - overachieved with actual chicken sh*t quality talent.  Fine by me.  That being said, Rex's 8-8 season in 2013 was farrrr better, with far worse talent at just about every position.  Bowles could have (and should have) been fired last year, and I wouldn't have batted an eye.

2018 - as stated earlier, a better coach has this team at 5-3 right now, not 3-5.  It's time to accept that the dude isn't anything worth keeping.  He isn't going to be a Super Bowl quality HC, and if you can't see the guy in charge winning a Super Bowl, you move on.

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21 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 Ok so what do you do when the HC has had 3 Offensive Coordinators in 4 years and they've all failed, sans 1 season against a weak schedule?

The HC is a defensive guy and the defense sucks.

The HC sucks at in game adjustments and managing the clock.

The HC can't find an OC worth a damn to delegate too.

 The HC doesn't run a tight ship that holds players accountable for on the field mistakes, such as penalties and effort.

 What exactly does Bowles do well that you think he should be absolved of even some blame?

I guess you can assume that everyone is stupid and doesn't understand football.  Or, you can acknowledge that there's like 3 players, maybe, on the whole team, that are good football players.  Maybe 2 or 3 more that are average, and the rest that don't belong in the NFL.  Then, you can say that maybe he's not a good HC, but that HC really isn't the problem with this team?

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6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Jets fans in a nutshell - when we win, it's because of the players.  When we lose, it's because of the coach.

We've been through this before so you know I'm a "blame both" type of guy.

When someone can name one thing good thing that Bowles does, I'll listen to reasons why he should be absolved of anything.  We're almost getting to the third page of this thread and not one person has said one thing about the guy in terms of coaching skill.

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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

We've been through this before so you know I'm a "blame both" type of guy.

When someone can name one thing good thing that Bowles does, I'll listen to reasons why he should be absolved of anything.  We're almost getting to the third page of this thread and not one person has said one thing about the guy in terms of coaching skill.

I'm in the fire both camp too.  Perhaps for different reasons.

But, my point is, there's typically 4-5 new fire Bowles threads per day (we can agree this is not an exaggeration), and I really don't see how firing him is going to make any meaningful difference on this team.

As for what he's done, I can't tell you specifics, I'm not in the room so all I have (all anyone has) is hindsight analysis, but I can tell you that this year, and last year, he's gotten more wins out of a talent-free team than I'd have expected.

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I guess you can assume that everyone is stupid and doesn't understand football.  Or, you can acknowledge that there's like 3 players, maybe, on the whole team, that are good football players.  Maybe 2 or 3 more that are average, and the rest that don't belong in the NFL.  Then, you can say that maybe he's not a good HC, but that HC really isn't the problem with this team?

Leo

Adams

Quincy 

Anderson

Claiborne

Tru

Crowell

Maye

Henry Anderson

Steve McLendon

Mike Pennel

That's 8 guys who are average at worst. There are others who are above average at their position.  At least 2 of them, possibly 4, have track records of high level play.

Their is more than enough guys on this team.  Maccagnan doesn't get absolved of anything.  His drafts have not been exemplary.  That being said, again, this is a roster that should be 5-3. We're 3-5, with both of those losses being caused by horrendous coaching.

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4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Leo

Adams

Quincy 

Anderson

Claiborne

 Tru

Crowell

Maye

Henry Anderson

Steve McLendon

Mike Pennel

 That's 8 guys who are average at worst. There are others who are above average at their position.  At least 2 of them, possibly 4, have track records of high level play.

Their is more than enough guys on this team.  Maccagnan doesn't get absolved of anything.  His drafts have not been exemplary.  That being said, again, this is a roster that should be 5-3. We're 3-5, with both of those losses being caused by horrendous coaching.

That, to me, is an uninspiring list.  And, when that's your best, I just don't think you're going to win many games.

I also think it's easy to play the "we should be 5-3" game.  No one ever plays it the other way, and says, we got super lucky that Stafford had that kind of abysmal day, and we should be 2-6 right now.

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Just now, TeddEY said:

I'm in the fire both camp too.

But, my point is, there's typically 4-5 new fire Bowles threads per day (we can agree this is not an exaggeration), and I really don't see how firing him is going to make any meaningful difference on this team.

As for what he's done, I can't tell you specifics, I'm not in the room so all I have (all anyone has) is hindsight analysis, but I can tell you that this year, and last year, he's gotten more wins out of a talent-free team than I'd have expected.

I get what you're saying.  While I get tired of the same thing every day, what more do we honestly have to talk about, y'know?  

I disagree with the premise that we've overachieved, but I guess that's more of a beauty in the eye of the beholder lol.  Dream off-season? 

Maccagnan fired.

Bowles fired

Elliot Wolf is poached from Cleveland.

DeFilippo gets the HC job. Calls his own plays or hires a guy to basically be the relay man, doesn't matter which. 

Cleveland gets Lincoln Riley and let's Greg Williams go, Williams takes the job here as DC, we finally make our, long, overdue, switch to an aggressive, press-man heavy, 4-3 attacking defense.

Keep Boyer as ST coach.

Keep Kevin Greene as LB coach.

Keep Karl Dorrell as WRs coach.

Don't blow the whole warchest, but reasonably spend some money on guys for Sam.

Draft Jonah Williams or any one of Nick Bosa, Ed Oliver, A.J. Brown, or Clelin Ferrel.  Don't care who, just get one of those guys.

???

Profit.

 

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20 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

That, to me, is an uninspiring list.  And, when that's your best, I just don't think you're going to win many games.

I also think it's easy to play the "we should be 5-3" game.  No one ever plays it the other way, and says, we got super lucky that Stafford had that kind of abysmal day, and we should be 2-6 right now.

Gonna just agree to disagree there.  I think in better systems, both sides of the ball have those guys shine more than they have this year Leo, Trumaine, Mo, Darron Lee (who, to his credit, has been very good this year) are all guys I could specifically see thriving with a Defensive switch. That's fine though, no biggie.  

I'd agree with the 2-6 belief if we we didn't dominate the way we did against Detroit. To Bowles's credit, he coached an absolutely perfect game that night.  My problem with the guy is that the type of performance we got out him week 1 is a "once in a blue moon" type of performance.  The Miami and Cleveland losses are were pure coaching losses.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  We're better than both of those teams in terms of talent, and we were perfectly healthy when we played them.  It was undisciplined football and lack of adjustments that lost both of those games.  It's been 4 years now and the issues remain the same.  

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On 10/30/2018 at 6:15 PM, johnnyjet said:

I’d like to see Mac hire HIS guy.  Bowlesmwas hired before Mac. Dumb move number 1.  What team does not have the HC and GM linked.  Just the Jets.  I’m sure Mac can do better than Bowles. I can do better. 

then Macc automatically gets 3 more years?  I prefer they fire TB and hire a head of football operations.  He picks the coach, and he can fire Macc next year if he does not like the way he does things. Or, just fire them both

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On 10/30/2018 at 3:24 PM, JetsFanatic said:

Firing Bowles isn't priority #1 . We've been down this path before.  The big question is who do you want to coach?  The Giants fired McAdoo, how did that work out?

The Rams fired Jeff Fisher. How did that work out? 

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1 hour ago, shevys said:

The Rams fired Jeff Fisher. How did that work out? 

How does this get buttfumbled? 

How does in anyone in their right mind not see firing Jeff Fisher as the best thing that franchise ever did, aside from winning the Super Bowl?

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48 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

How does this get buttfumbled? 

How does in anyone in their right mind not see firing Jeff Fisher as the best thing that franchise ever did, aside from winning the Super Bowl?

You and I had a discussion here this morning. We both went at it, but never left a butt fumble or negative for each other. We ended our talk like adults, agreeing to disagree. I respect you for that. This shevy guy has butt fumbled me at least 20x in the last couple of weeks, (2 or 3 x in this thread) yet never once has he engaged me in a conversation before he did. This was the first time I've seen a post left by him, so I figured I would do the same to him. It's petty, I know, but that's why I did it.

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10 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

You and I had a discussion here this morning. We both went at it, but never left a butt fumble or negative for each other. We ended our talk like adults, agreeing to disagree. I respect you for that. This shevy guy has butt fumbled me at least 20x in the last couple of weeks, (2 or 3 x in this thread) yet never once has he engaged me in a conversation before he did. This was the first time I've seen a post left by him, so I figured I would do the same to him. It's petty, I know, but that's why I did it.

Bryce Petty 

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

You and I had a discussion here this morning. We both went at it, but never left a butt fumble or negative for each other. We ended our talk like adults, agreeing to disagree. I respect you for that. This shevy guy has butt fumbled me at least 20x in the last couple of weeks, (2 or 3 x in this thread) yet never once has he engaged me in a conversation before he did. This was the first time I've seen a post left by him, so I figured I would do the same to him. It's petty, I know, but that's why I did it.

Didn't know that.

My b homie.

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