Maccagnan deserves to stay, but is on the clock now: NYP (Costello)

[bgivs21]

I think a lot of people would agree Mac has done a good job at getting & filling out the roster with very good rotational players & has even found some guys who are decent to good starters. 

That said, the top talent on the roster is not great - it's only Adams & Williams. His inability to fill more positions with top tier talent will do him in. It sucks because I do think he's done a good job of finding guys who are good rotational players & young guys who have flashed a bit & that's probably the hardest part of being a GM.

But you also need to hit on top tier guys which we have not. Do you give him another year? I don't know. I would hate to see Bowles fired, Mac given another year & then fired in 2020. That's not a good situation. If you fire Bowles this year & keep Mac you are making a big gamble. 

 

[MDL_JET]

Completely whiffing on Stewart and Hansen after 1 year was it for me. I was keeping hope but no. He sucks. Let’s move on save ourselves while we can. 

[C Mart]

Howard Balzer‏ @HBalzer721 

Here's another stat: Belichick was 37-45 in five seasons as head coach of the Browns.

 

Sam Farmer @LATimesfarmer

Great stat from ESPN: In order to match Hue Jackson's career winning percentage of .205, Bill Belichick would have to lose his next 867 games -- 54 seasons worth.

2:02 PM - 30 Oct 2018

[bealeb319]

I think a lot of people would agree Mac has done a good job at getting & filling out the roster with very good rotational players & has even found some guys who are decent to good starters. 
That said, the top talent on the roster is not great - it's only Adams & Williams. His inability to fill more positions with top tier talent will do him in. It sucks because I do think he's done a good job of finding guys who are good rotational players & young guys who have flashed a bit & that's probably the hardest part of being a GM.
But you also need to hit on top tier guys which we have not. Do you give him another year? I don't know. I would hate to see Bowles fired, Mac given another year & then fired in 2020. That's not a good situation. If you fire Bowles this year & keep Mac you are making a big gamble. 
 

My personal opinion is that Mac has brought the talent we need to be competitive in and the problem is somewhere in the coaching and discipline. Take a look at the players this regime inherited specifically the defensive line, we were strong against the run before the swap than we drafted Williams and somehow with williams, Richardson, and Wilkerson on the defensive line we sucked against the run. If it were my decision I would give Mac one more year with a new coaching staff to see if there is any change

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Lizard King]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

Because it appears he has done better in 2018, and there are reasons for that, and it does not make sense to get rid of him unless we can replace him with someone better.

$100 mil in cap space and Sam Darnold. If the Jets can’t attract top front office talent now, they are more cursed than the Browns. 

[jets rooter]

It's obvious that it is time for mac and his cohorts to go.

 

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, Lizard King said:

In the draft, Maccagnan has hit on Leonard Williams (sixth overall in 2015), Jamal Adams (sixth overall in 2017) and Marcus Maye (second round in 2017). It appears his 2018 draft class may be his best with Darnold, Chris Herndon, Nathan Shepherd, Trenton Cannon and Parry Nickerson all showing promise. But his previous three classes have already taken some hits. Only 10 of the 22 players taken between 2015-17 remain on the active roster.

This is a really dumb way of evaluating a GM, so it’s no surprise it’s the way people around here talk about Maccagnan. The job of a GM isn’t to hit some Mendoza Line of draft hits, not least because no one can agree what constitutes a hit (in what universe is Trenton Cannon “showing promise”?); the job of a GM is to build a good team. After four offseasons, the Jets are a bad team. Even worse, with the exception of QB (hopefully), they’re bad in pretty much all the same ways they were bad when Maccagnan got here. The guy’s a boob. 

[RVAJet815]

Wanting Mac to go and Mac actually going are two completely different things. I am reasonably confident Bowles goes because he's had 4 years and is still making the same errors. Like it or not, mac got his go ahead 2 years ago (not 4...2) to rebuild and will be allowed to see it through imo. I would prefer he go too...but I think the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of his staying.

[BettyBoop]

The last thing this team needs is to hit the reset button at year end by firing Bowles and Mac.  They can't both go.  That would put us back another 2-3 years.  Look at the Giants.  In George Young's first five seasons with the G-Men they went 6-10, 4-12, 9-7, 4-5 and 3-12-1.  It takes time to build a team and Mac has had two good drafts including getting his franchise QB.  And with the cap space in '19 the remaining holes can be filled.  They're close and it would be a disaster to tear this team apart and start over again.

[Gas2No99]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

I love the fact the 1st two years of drafts and fa are totally ignored because they were not in the 'rebuild' window.

[C Mart]

8 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

I think a lot of people would agree Mac has done a good job at getting & filling out the roster with very good rotational players & has even found some guys who are decent to good starters. 

That said, the top talent on the roster is not great - it's only Adams & Williams. His inability to fill more positions with top tier talent will do him in. It sucks because I do think he's done a good job of finding guys who are good rotational players & young guys who have flashed a bit & that's probably the hardest part of being a GM.

But you also need to hit on top tier guys which we have not. Do you give him another year? I don't know. I would hate to see Bowles fired, Mac given another year & then fired in 2020. That's not a good situation. If you fire Bowles this year & keep Mac you are making a big gamble. 

 

I'll get crushed for this. IMO the D is a legit edge rusher away from being top 5. Without that guy you need to blitz to create pressure. When it works you see pressure/great plays i.e. sacks, INTs. PBUs...However, if it doesn't......You can get burned, especially if 1 player misses their assignment (Miami, Sunday w/Cohen TD (Williamson)). Again, I'll get crushed but I think Lee is playing well, and that includes for being picked #20.  TJohnson has been a disappointment . However, once healthy, let's see how he plays. His resume is too strong to write off as a mistake. 

That said. We all know the O needs alot of upgrades. The missing on Stewart and Hansen is a killer! Terrible!  However, he can correct that if he's able to hit on O FAs this offseason and pick O building blocks in the '19 draft. 

The Offense better be the focus of 2019. The only major resource ($$ or pick) permitted to be used on the D is an edge rusher. 

I like the young TEs. Leggett could develop into a solid 2. Herndon has the makings of a real good #1 TE (FYI there is nothing wrong w/a real good #1). You can win w/QE and Anderson on your WR roster. Roberts has been a GREAT addition to STs.  

Crowell, when healthy, has been a nice p/u. I'll let Dennison be the judge on the OL. Shell seems fine. Are Long's recent struggles because of his broken finger and bum knee? Either way a young promising, developmental C is needed. We know about LT. Bart Scott he would go out and sign the best available FA LG this off-season. 

It would be great if the Jets can keep Davis Webb another season. McCown too (at a much cheaper salary)

OK..that's it..I'm done babbling.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Absolutely right. He passed the first test by getting a QB. Now he’s got to get people to surround said QB.

i have been a pro Macc guy as most of you know, but to say that he hasn’t done some things wrong is ludicrous

[UnitedWhofans]

44 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Completely whiffing on Stewart and Hansen after 1 year was it for me. I was keeping hope but no. He sucks. Let’s move on save ourselves while we can. 

But that’s my point. They were only here for a year. Why were hey released so quickly? That makes no sense to me. Why not try to develop them?

[sec101row23]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

But that’s my point. They were only here for a year. Why were hey released so quickly? That makes no sense to me. Why not try to develop them?

That should be rather obvious no?  

[Joe W. Namath]

How do you write an article about how mccagnan has failed at addressing the reciever position through the draft and not mention his biggest wr miss in devin smith?

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

That should be rather obvious no?  

No it’s not. It’s instant gratification. Let them develop. Give them at least two years

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Joe W. Namath said:

How do you write an article about how mccagnan has failed at addressing the reciever position through the draft and not mention his biggest wr miss in devin smith?

Because injuries did Devin Smith in and you can’t blame a GM for injuries 

[Jetster]

17 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I'll get crushed for this. IMO the D is a legit edge rusher away from being top 5. Without that guy you need to blitz to create pressure. When it works you see pressure/great plays i.e. sacks, INTs. PBUs...However, if it doesn't......You can get burned, especially if 1 player misses their assignment (Miami, Sunday w/Cohen TD (Williamson)). Again, I'll get crushed but I think Lee is playing well, and that includes for being picked #20.  TJohnson has been a disappointment . However, once healthy, let's see how he plays. His resume is too strong to write off as a mistake. 

That said. We all know the O needs alot of upgrades. The missing on Stewart and Hansen is a killer! Terrible!  However, he can correct that if he's able to hit on O FAs this offseason and pick O building blocks in the '19 draft. 

The Offense better be the focus of 2019. The only major resource ($$ or pick) permitted to be used on the D is an edge rusher. 

I like the young TEs. Leggett could develop into a solid 2. Herndon has the makings of a real good #1 TE (FYI there is nothing wrong w/a real good #1). You can win w/QE and Anderson on your WR roster. Roberts has been a GREAT addition to STs.  

Crowell, when healthy, has been a nice p/u. I'll let Dennison be the judge on the OL. Shell seems fine. Are Long's recent struggles because of his broken finger and bum knee? Either way a young promising, developmental C is needed. We know about LT. Bart Scott he would go out and sign the best available FA LG this off-season. 

It would be great if the Jets can keep Davis Webb another season. McCown too (at a much cheaper salary)

OK..that's it..I'm done babbling.  

Man, I so agree with you regarding building this offense. How funny is it that in 2 short years Stud RBs are back in vogue? What would the Rams offense be without defenses having to scheme to for Todd Gurley? 

How good could the Jets offense be if defenses 1st had to concentrate on stopping Le'veon Bell? Sam actually reminds me of a young Big Ben a bit. The offense could be completely transformed this offseason. Bell + T.Willams + 1st round Stud WR & bam instant offense for the 22 year old Donald.

The defense gets 1 big time free agent pass rusher & anything else has to be filled in with cheap vets for depth. 

Bowles has GOT TO GO! I want an attacking type of offensive creative coach. The type of guy that scores vs the Pats up 27-10 with 1 minute left! 

 

[section314]

28 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I'll get crushed for this. IMO the D is a legit edge rusher away from being top 5. Without that guy you need to blitz to create pressure. When it works you see pressure/great plays i.e. sacks, INTs. PBUs...However, if it doesn't......You can get burned, especially if 1 player misses their assignment (Miami, Sunday w/Cohen TD (Williamson)). Again, I'll get crushed but I think Lee is playing well, and that includes for being picked #20.  TJohnson has been a disappointment . However, once healthy, let's see how he plays. His resume is too strong to write off as a mistake. 

That said. We all know the O needs alot of upgrades. The missing on Stewart and Hansen is a killer! Terrible!  However, he can correct that if he's able to hit on O FAs this offseason and pick O building blocks in the '19 draft. 

The Offense better be the focus of 2019. The only major resource ($$ or pick) permitted to be used on the D is an edge rusher. 

I like the young TEs. Leggett could develop into a solid 2. Herndon has the makings of a real good #1 TE (FYI there is nothing wrong w/a real good #1). You can win w/QE and Anderson on your WR roster. Roberts has been a GREAT addition to STs.  

Crowell, when healthy, has been a nice p/u. I'll let Dennison be the judge on the OL. Shell seems fine. Are Long's recent struggles because of his broken finger and bum knee? Either way a young promising, developmental C is needed. We know about LT. Bart Scott he would go out and sign the best available FA LG this off-season. 

It would be great if the Jets can keep Davis Webb another season. McCown too (at a much cheaper salary)

OK..that's it..I'm done babbling.  

Isn't that on Lee?

[sec101row23]

11 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No it’s not. It’s instant gratification. Let them develop. Give them at least two years

Develop into what?  Special team gunners?  

[sec101row23]

12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Because injuries did Devin Smith in and you can’t blame a GM for injuries 

Devin  Smith was a bad draft pick the day he was drafted.  Injuries didn’t do him in.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

Devin  Smith was a bad draft pick the day he was drafted.  Injuries didn’t do him in.  

No. A lot of people liked him coming out of college. I remember that specifically. Once again, the instant gratification thing kicks in than the injuries.

 

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, SR24 said:

Macs 15-17 drafts we have 2 players remaining on the roster from his 2nd-4th round selections. He is too ineffective to trust 

He sucks.  Just say it.  We agree.  

[UnitedWhofans]

BTW, another possible reason that the first draft is ignored is because it was not with Macc’s scouting staff. Usually it is done with the previous GM,s scouts

[KRL]

Stupid article, they both go or both stay.  They're linked at the hip 

[playtowinthegame]

Fellas, it's Halloween ? and what is more scary than being told we're getting another year of Maccagnan and Bowles? Not even Michael Myers is scarier than that. Props to Costello for writing his scary Jets article on Halloween. He got us good! 

[C Mart]

10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

 

Bowles has GOT TO GO! I want an attacking type of offensive creative coach. The type of guy that scores vs the Pats up 27-10 with 1 minute left! 

 

This can be argued until he does go. However, IF the O needs upgrades, which you and I agree, how has Bowles held Bates back? Especially with a rookie QB w/8 NFL games. 

I don’t see or have read how Bates is being held back. Hell he was criticized here for being too pass happy and “creative”. 

I get everyone wants the next McVay. But just because a current OC is young doesn’t mean he’ll be a successful HC. 

If an experienced, proven “O” HC shakes loose fine but I’m not in favor of hiring another first time HC at this stage just because he’s from the O side. 

Why not see what Bates can do with those O upgrades and Sam year 2. 

No Bates is not HC option at this point, if ever. 

[GaryM]

It seems to me that as well as Mac and Bowles being fired, the entire scouting department has to be let go. I am sure that Mac takes their observations and recommendations into his decisions. They obviously are giving the FO bad advice on players. The whole thing needs an upgrade and the time is now....

[Apache 51]

3 hours ago, SR24 said:

Entrusting Mac with 100mil in capspace and a t10 pick is madness. This whole regime needs to be removed Gm,HC,DC,OC all should be gone before next season starts. The most important thing we need to do now is get proven offensive minded staff members in the building to ensure Sam gets the best chance to develop. We're 4 years into a rebuild and are probably gonna be 5-11 again lol 

Nothing will change till you get a real owner, mark my words.

[Joe W. Namath]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Devin  Smith was a bad draft pick the day he was drafted.  Injuries didn’t do him in.  

Correct.  He stunk when he was healthy.

[TheGreenGhost]

Unless the fans start with banners and billboards again and/or the media hammers home the point that this team is seriously devoid of talent, the clueless ownership will stay the course.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

This is so true and it's why I fully expect both back next year.  It would be one thing if Mac had been truly building a talented team and just wasnt seeing the results ie; the Jags under Bradley.  But that's not the case.  This team sucks something awful and has very little talent, so a clean sweep is the only answer but it's not going to happen.  I just dont see a scenario where Todd Bowles decided on his own to start the youngest week 1 starter in NFL history.  I dont believe for 1 second that was his decision and I think it came with a guarantee for next year.

There is a weird part of me that wonders what this team would look like if Mac was partnered with someone other than Todd.  It's very clear to me that Todd has heavily influenced the building of this team.  I do think Mac takes the back seat on a lot of personnel decisions and defers to Todd.  That said, Mac hasnt hit on any mid rounds picks so who knows.  They might just both suck equally.

I don't know - Bowles refusing to play the young QBs I think can be largely dispelled by the combination of this decision, and the fact that the non-young QBs he's had in the past, were the only ones that were competent on the roster.  Bowles refused to start Christian Hackenberg and Bryce Petty - those are both decisions we can understand when we consider that Hackenberg is on his 3rd practice squad and has an identical NFL stat line to Klacko and Bryce Petty is unemployed.  So, I have no problem with the idea that Todd Bowles started the 1st semi-competent or better young QB he got his hands on.

The team may look different w/ a different coach, but then, what exactly is Mac's job?  Even if we say that Bowles says, I want a player like Darron Lee, is it not Mac's job to say, we'll find that, but we're going to look for it in round 3.  In round 1, we need to be focused on x,y,z.  If Bowles says, I love Jamal Adams, isn't it Mac's job to say, I do too, but Patrick Mahommes is on the board, and while I love what Adams can bring to the defense, he won't have the overall impact that Mahommes can?  I know we need corners, but I just don't see what value Trumaine Johnson brings, especially for that cost.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Absolutely right. He passed the first test by getting a QB. Now he’s got to get people to surround said QB.

i have been a pro Macc guy as most of you know, but to say that he hasn’t done some things wrong is ludicrous

It took him 4 ******* years to pass that test.  Assuming he has, isn't that still a long time?  If it takes my son that long to pass freshman Spanish I'm going to be pissed. 

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

No it’s not. It’s instant gratification. Let them develop. Give them at least two years

It isn't instant gratification, it is keeping the best 53.  If you think it is a sin to cut sh*tty mid-round picks, shouldn't that sin be held against Maccagnan?  Or did the owner force him to do that, like he forced him to sign vets that would be useless in 2 years and draft sh*t in 2015? 

[Vader]

if you replace macagnan you need a viable alternative and that also means the franchise once again needs a VP of football operations 

[BroadwayRay]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

There is a weird part of me that wonders what this team would look like if Mac was partnered with someone other than Todd.  It's very clear to me that Todd has heavily influenced the building of this team.  I do think Mac takes the back seat on a lot of personnel decisions and defers to Todd.  That said, Mac hasnt hit on any mid rounds picks so who knows.  They might just both suck equally.

I've always assumed this was the case. I don't think it's a coincidence Macc picks back-to-back safeties in rounds one and two for a defense-minded head coach who is a former NFL safety. It's been like this with the Jets for a long, long time. Rex heavily influenced the Jets picks, as did Mangini before him, both of them former defensive coordinators. That's why it's been 10 years since we've picked a non-QB offensive skill position player in the first round.