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Maccagnan deserves to stay, but is on the clock now: NYP (Costello)


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10 hours ago, SR24 said:

Entrusting Mac with 100mil in capspace and a t10 pick is madness. This whole regime needs to be removed Gm,HC,DC,OC all should be gone before next season starts. The most important thing we need to do now is get proven offensive minded staff members in the building to ensure Sam gets the best chance to develop. We're 4 years into a rebuild and are probably gonna be 5-11 again lol 

And Madness is exactly what this franchise is known for, who are you kidding?

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10 hours ago, SR24 said:

Macs 15-17 drafts we have 2 players remaining on the roster from his 2nd-4th round selections. He is too ineffective to trust 

has anyone compared these numbers to other GMs or league averages? I guarantee you no one has...show me, don't tell me.

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40 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

Macc is staying.  Bowles is on the fence.

I just dont understand how that isnt easy to see. They would not fire the GM a year after drafting with a top pick a QB. It doesnt make sense to do that. No GM candidate would take this job. It would be even worse than it was when GMs were told Rex had to stay

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9 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I just dont understand how that isnt easy to see. They would not fire the GM a year after drafting with a top pick a QB. It doesnt make sense to do that. No GM candidate would take this job. It would be even worse than it was when GMs were told Rex had to stay

same.  People on here are delusional. 

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11 hours ago, TeddEY said:

No one likes to talk about it practically, but if you keep Mac, you have to keep Bowles.

Otherwise, you keep Mac for another 3 years, at a minimum.

You cannot have Mac hire a coach, and then fire Mac and that coach after one year.

You cannot have Mac hire a coach, and then fire Mac and make a new GM keep that coach.

So, you either fire them both this year, or give them both one more year.  There's no option 3 that makes any practical sense.

Macc will not be fired this year. Bowles will. Macc will get the opportunity to hire his first coach, as he should.

  He will continue to improve as he has been in the draft and we will have Macc for the next 10 years because this next coach will be the most awesomest we've ever had. It will be our first offensive hire since Kotite and we will finally have an offensive mind and a franchise QB in the building. 

I am also 100% on board with this plan. 

I see the argument otherwise of course, but this is what I see happening and what I support happening. 

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3 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Macc will not be fired this year. Bowles will. Macc will get the opportunity to hire his first coach, as he should.

  He will continue to improve as he has been in the draft and we will have Macc for the next 10 years because this next coach will be the most awesomest we've ever had. It will be our first offensive hire since Kotite and we will finally have an offensive mind and a franchise QB in the building. 

I am also 100% on board with this plan. 

I see the argument otherwise of course, but this is what I see happening and what I support happening. 

2017 draft was a disaster. He is not improving. The only way I am remotely close to being ok with keeping Mac is if he reports to a head of football operations and/or hands over drafting responsibilities to someone else. 

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

No way I sign Robbie unless its DIRT cheap he's a JAG 

While I'm not a huge Anderson Fan in particular, Saying a guy that can burn NFL CB's and catch TD passes is a Jag is a little bit harsh. He's a really nice piece to have on the offense and deserves a contract. I agree that it needs to be a smart contract, but come on. JAG? 

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Just now, Creepy Lurker said:

2017 draft was a disaster. He is not improving. The only way I am remotely close to being ok with keeping Mac is if he reports to a head of football operations and/or hands over drafting responsibilities to someone else. 

what about 2018?  You have to know that I totally hear you and the other guys round here with what you're saying, but I sincetrely believe he has shown enough improvement and done enough that cutting and running is more dangerous than we realize. I also think strongly that tearing it all apart and starting over from the GM position yet again is more detrimental and dysfunctional than we need during Sam's development.  Especially when there are many positives in what Macc's done. 

There is no guarantee that some new guy is going to be any better, and while that is no reason not to make a move on it's own, it is when the GM we have now has shown promise and improvement IMO.

I have to admit that I also can't help but think that a legit coaching staff would have done much more with the players we drafted. That's grasping at straws I know, but I believe it to be true.  I think Leo would be a Pro Bowling beast in Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

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13 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

what about 2018?  You have to know that I totally hear you and the other guys round here with what you're saying, but I sincetrely believe he has shown enough improvement and done enough that cutting and running is more dangerous than we realize. I also think strongly that tearing it all apart and starting over from the GM position yet again is more detrimental and dysfunctional than we need during Sam's development.  Especially when there are many positives in what Macc's done. 

There is no guarantee that some new guy is going to be any better, and while that is no reason not to make a move on it's own, it is when the GM we have now has shown promise and improvement IMO.

I have to admit that I also can't help but think that a legit coaching staff would have done much more with the players we drafted. That's grasping at straws I know, but I believe it to be true.  I think Leo would be a Pro Bowling beast in Baltimore or Pittsburgh.

It’s the chicken and the egg argument. Some blame Bowles, others Blame Macc for the quality of players drafted. It’s honestly both. 

2018 does look promising from a draft standpoint but enough has been done to not trust his drafting. The whole philosophy would have to change completely and I don’t think it will. Misses are one thing. Misses and philiopshy are another and I don’t see it changing. 

I too worry VERY much about what our options are. It made me hesitant to want to move on from Bowles because there is a lot of trash out there. Hell, moving on from Rex finally (the correct decision), got us into this mess in the first place. 

Its worth a shot. We can’t “punt” this team’s future on 4th down when we are behind by a lot with little time left. We HAVE to take a chance on someone (best/most experience candidates possible), or we will be stuck in the mud with any combination of Mac and no bowles/Mac and Bowles/no Mac and Bowles. 

JUST MY OPINION. I appreciate other views as well. We are all trying talk about ways to fix this mess. 

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51 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

While I'm not a huge Anderson Fan in particular, Saying a guy that can burn NFL CB's and catch TD passes is a Jag is a little bit harsh. He's a really nice piece to have on the offense and deserves a contract. I agree that it needs to be a smart contract, but come on. JAG? 

1 trick pony and he doesn't burn them enough to be considered a top WR in this league, my opinion. 

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12 hours ago, SR24 said:

Macs 15-17 drafts we have 2 players remaining on the roster from his 2nd-4th round selections. He is too ineffective to trust 

 

1 hour ago, southtown24th said:

has anyone compared these numbers to other GMs or league averages? I guarantee you no one has...show me, don't tell me.

The San Diego Chargers have 6 active players from that category.

The Dallas Cowboys have 8 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Chicago Bears have 8 active players from that category and two on other teams active rosters.

The Cincinnati Bengals have 10 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have 8 active players from that category.

The Houston Texans have 7 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Arizona Cardinals have 7 active players from that category.

The Buffalo BIlls have 3 active players from that category and 3 on other teams active rosters.

The Denver Broncos have 7 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Carolina Panthers have 5 active players from that category and 2 on other teams active rosters.

So, that's 10 teams, selected at random, all of whom have done significantly better in the mid-rounds.  100% of these teams.  Can you find one team that was worse?  Should we start considering that Macc is worst in the league based on this?

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2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

1 trick pony and he doesn't burn them enough to be considered a top WR in this league, my opinion. 

Maybe not Top. That's fair enough. But I would sure say that he has value. He has done some nice over the middle and out routes lately so he's a nit more than one trick. And that IS a pretty good trick. 

I'm sure we're not too far off in our opinions once we remove the JAG label. :-)

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1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I just dont understand how that isnt easy to see. They would not fire the GM a year after drafting with a top pick a QB. It doesnt make sense to do that. No GM candidate would take this job. It would be even worse than it was when GMs were told Rex had to stay

The Titans did it. 

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9 hours ago, Jetster said:

Man, I so agree with you regarding building this offense. How funny is it that in 2 short years Stud RBs are back in vogue? What would the Rams offense be without defenses having to scheme to for Todd Gurley? 

How good could the Jets offense be if defenses 1st had to concentrate on stopping Le'veon Bell? Sam actually reminds me of a young Big Ben a bit. The offense could be completely transformed this offseason. Bell + T.Willams + 1st round Stud WR & bam instant offense for the 22 year old Donald.

The defense gets 1 big time free agent pass rusher & anything else has to be filled in with cheap vets for depth. 

Bowles has GOT TO GO! I want an attacking type of offensive creative coach. The type of guy that scores vs the Pats up 27-10 with 1 minute left! 

 

Bell will disappoint wherever he goes. I pray its not here. Fire Mac. Fire Bowles. Hire a Director of Football Operations. Promote Heimerdinger. Hire new offensive minded HC and QB centric staff. Have new coach under the GM. Focus on offense in draft.

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5 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Maybe not Top. That's fair enough. But I would sure say that he has value. He has done some nice over the middle and out routes lately so he's a nit more than one trick. And that IS a pretty good trick. 

I'm sure we're not too far off in our opinions once we remove the JAG label. :-)

I'm not worried about the JAG label.  I am trying to figure out why we shouldn't sign a WR because he isn't a "Top WR."  Every team is carrying 5-6 WRs.  Even if you think he isn't a starter, he is certainly good enough to keep while we have cheap control. 

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12 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

Maybe not Top. That's fair enough. But I would sure say that he has value. He has done some nice over the middle and out routes lately so he's a nit more than one trick. And that IS a pretty good trick. 

I'm sure we're not too far off in our opinions once we remove the JAG label. :-)

Robbie frustrates the heck out of me especially when he loses the ball after a hit. 

He seems to disappear in games when you need him most. 

He runs sloppy loose routes. 

He needs to produce more especially since he's probably looking for a payday. 

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

 

The San Diego Chargers have 6 active players from that category.

The Dallas Cowboys have 8 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Chicago Bears have 8 active players from that category and two on other teams active rosters.

The Cincinnati Bengals have 10 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have 8 active players from that category.

The Houston Texans have 7 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Arizona Cardinals have 7 active players from that category.

The Buffalo BIlls have 3 active players from that category and 3 on other teams active rosters.

The Denver Broncos have 7 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Carolina Panthers have 5 active players from that category and 2 on other teams active rosters.

So, that's 10 teams, selected at random, all of whom have done significantly better in the mid-rounds.  100% of these teams.  Can you find one team that was worse?  Should we start considering that Macc is worst in the league based on this?

Close to the Bills.  Similar level team.

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

 

The San Diego Chargers have 6 active players from that category.

The Dallas Cowboys have 8 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Chicago Bears have 8 active players from that category and two on other teams active rosters.

The Cincinnati Bengals have 10 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have 8 active players from that category.

The Houston Texans have 7 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Arizona Cardinals have 7 active players from that category.

The Buffalo BIlls have 3 active players from that category and 3 on other teams active rosters.

The Denver Broncos have 7 active players from that category and one on another teams active roster.

The Carolina Panthers have 5 active players from that category and 2 on other teams active rosters.

So, that's 10 teams, selected at random, all of whom have done significantly better in the mid-rounds.  100% of these teams.  Can you find one team that was worse?  Should we start considering that Macc is worst in the league based on this?

 

How about picking a couple that will win a playoff game this year?

Other than arguably the Texans (who Macc help build) I'm not sure I'd take any of those teams 5 year forecasts over the Jets.

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I'm not worried about the JAG label.  I am trying to figure out why we shouldn't sign a WR because he isn't a "Top WR."  Every team is carrying 5-6 WRs.  Even if you think he isn't a starter, he is certainly good enough to keep while we have cheap control. 

It’s early but I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or serious. :)

For me it just boils down to having good guys who can fill roles and beat the other team. Anderson, while it elite, has shown he can do that. I’d like to have him around if possible. .


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8 hours ago, Pac said:

 

How about picking a couple that will win a playoff game this year?

Other than arguably the Texans (who Macc help build) I'm not sure I'd take any of those teams 5 year forecasts over the Jets.

Macc helped build the Texans?  Lol

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9 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Robbie frustrates the heck out of me especially when he loses the ball after a hit. 

He seems to disappear in games when you need him most. 

He runs sloppy loose routes. 

He needs to produce more especially since he's probably looking for a payday. 

He is what he is there’s a reason he went undrafted 

Hes thin as a rail and this succeptuble to fumbling after getting hit by bigger stronger DBs

 

Robby’s role in the nfl is as a #3 WR who runs deep routes to keep defenses honest he’s not an every down player

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8 hours ago, Pac said:

 

How about picking a couple that will win a playoff game this year?

Other than arguably the Texans (who Macc help build) I'm not sure I'd take any of those teams 5 year forecasts over the Jets.

The Kansas City Chiefs have 8 active players and 4 on other teams.

The New England Patriots have 7 active players and 4 on other teams rosters.

The New Orleans Saints have 9 active players.

The LA Rams have 8 active players and 2 on other teams rosters.

I've now given 14 NFL Teams, and the Jets are the worst.  Time to acknowledge that Macc is perhaps the worst GM at identifying talent in the NFL.

As for 5 year forecasts, I'm guessing there's only 2, maybe 3 teams you put the Jets behind... Rams, Chiefs, and maybe the Eagles.  So, that's gonna be pretty laughable.

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9 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Bell will disappoint wherever he goes. I pray its not here. Fire Mac. Fire Bowles. Hire a Director of Football Operations. Promote Heimerdinger. Hire new offensive minded HC and QB centric staff. Have new coach under the GM. Focus on offense in draft.

I don't agree at all about Bell. I think he's got a good 4 years left especially with Crowell, McGuire & Cannon to subsidize his carries. I'd give him 16/17 mill in a heartbeat, you'd get a hell of a lot more production than Mo or Tru. 

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

The Kansas City Chiefs have 8 active players and 4 on other teams.

The New England Patriots have 7 active players and 4 on other teams rosters.

The New Orleans Saints have 9 active players.

The LA Rams have 8 active players and 2 on other teams rosters.

I've now given 14 NFL Teams, and the Jets are the worst.  Time to acknowledge that Macc is perhaps the worst GM at identifying talent in the NFL.

As for 5 year forecasts, I'm guessing there's only 2, maybe 3 teams you put the Jets behind... Rams, Chiefs, and maybe the Eagles.  So, that's gonna be pretty laughable.

Mac’s drafts from 2015-2017 were putrid no doubt.  I was bashing them before it became cool.  That said he did get Darnold and Herndon looks legit so I think he gets one more year

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Just now, Jetster said:

I don't agree at all about Bell. I think he's got a good 4 years left especially with Crowell, McGuire & Cannon to subsidize his carries. I'd give him 16/17 mill in a heartbeat, you'd get a hell of a lot more production than Mo or Tru. 

Bell is a cancer.  This isn’t the 90’s you don’t  pay part time rbs $17 million per year

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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Bell is a cancer.  This isn’t the 90’s you don’t  pay part time rbs $17 million per year

I disagree, he's a top 5 talent in this league & there is a reason he's always voted one of the best in the leagues top 100 & in the top 10 players BY HIS PEERS every year.

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2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I disagree, he's a top 5 talent in this league & there is a reason he's always voted one of the best in the leagues top 100 & in the top 10 players BY HIS PEERS every year.

Top 5 talent in the nfl?  That crystal you’re smoking must be good did Bryan Cranston cook it?

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30 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Top 5 talent in the nfl?  That crystal you’re smoking must be good did Bryan Cranston cook it?

2018 Top players in the NFL voted by their PEERS.

Rank Player Position 2017 team 2018 team Rank change Reference Year accomplishments
1 Tom Brady Quarterback New England Patriots Steady 0 1
2 Antonio Brown Wide Receiver Pittsburgh Steelers Increase 2 2
  • 6th Pro Bowl selection
  • 4th First-team All-Pro selection
  • First player to ever record 100+ receptions, 1200+ receiving yards and 5+ receiving TD's in 5 consecutive seasons.
3 Carson Wentz Quarterback Philadelphia Eagles NR 3
4 Julio Jones Wide Receiver Atlanta Falcons Decrease 1 4
5 Le'Veon Bell Running Back Pittsburgh Steelers Increase 4
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2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

2018 Top players in the NFL voted by their PEERS.

Rank Player Position 2017 team 2018 team Rank change Reference Year accomplishments
1 Tom Brady Quarterback New England Patriots Steady 0 1
2 Antonio Brown Wide Receiver Pittsburgh Steelers Increase 2 2
  • 6th Pro Bowl selection
  • 4th First-team All-Pro selection
  • First player to ever record 100+ receptions, 1200+ receiving yards and 5+ receiving TD's in 5 consecutive seasons.
3 Carson Wentz Quarterback Philadelphia Eagles NR 3
4 Julio Jones Wide Receiver Atlanta Falcons Decrease 1 4
5 Le'Veon Bell Running Back Pittsburgh Steelers Increase 4

And yet the Steelers have had 0.0 trouble replacing Bell with a mid round pick

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9 hours ago, southtown24th said:

Close to the Bills.  Similar level team.

Ok, so, Jets fans are “delusional” for wanting or thinking Macc should be fired, when the closest comparison as far as ability to identify and acquire talent is an unfavorable one to the Buffalo Bills, one of the leagues worst teams?

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10 hours ago, Pac said:

 

How about picking a couple that will win a playoff game this year?

Other than arguably the Texans (who Macc help build) I'm not sure I'd take any of those teams 5 year forecasts over the Jets.

Why?  Will the Jets win a playoff game this year?  The Jets had a sh*tty roster when he arrived.  They have a sh*tty roster now.  Yet with all those roster spots sitting for the taking he found almost no usable talent in those rounds.  Was that because we weren't rebuilding?

1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:


It’s early but I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or serious. :)

For me it just boils down to having good guys who can fill roles and beat the other team. Anderson, while it elite, has shown he can do that. I’d like to have him around if possible. .


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Dead serious, but that is mostly aimed at Joe Willie's hyperbole.  The fact that a player is not top 20 at a position is not an indicator they should not be signed - unless they are a punter, kicker, long snapper or someone you plan to start at QB.  Role players are important too. 

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