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I go back and forth on who will be fired


Maxman
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I seriously go back and forth, round and round. 

Bowles is getting fired. He deserves it. Macc is safe, he drafted Darnold. They have a young nucleus on defense with Adams, Maye, Williams, Lee, T. Johnson, Sheperd and Avery Williamson. 

But wait, the offense is so bad, Macc is going to get fired for that.

Both Macc and Bowles are getting fired.

Then I look at the remaining schedule:

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The remaining opponents have a record of 31 and 30.

You have the Patriots twice. Let's say the Jets lose both games, that gives them 7 losses on the year. But the opponents other than that are 19 and 26.

The Dolphins and Bills have QB issues right now. If the Jets win both of those games a .500 record would come down to winning 2 of 3 against the Titans, Packers and Texans. Two of which are at home.

It is a big if, but does anyone get fired if they get to 8 and 8 on the year?

I know wins and losses aren't the most important thing. But I don't see them firing anyone at 8 and 8. Granted the argument can be easily made that they won't sniff 8 wins, but I think they have a shot at it.

So I go round and round on who will be fired. It is frustrating, next year though they have to load up this offense and give Darnold some weapons.

 

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Just now, sec101row23 said:

The fact that you can make reasonable cases for both being fired, suggests that both should go.  

But if they go 8 and 8 and have 100 million in cap room wouldn't that make the case for both staying?

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

To me it seems simple. We have seen HCs get fired after drafting a young QB (Jeff Fisher) 

we have not seen a GM get fired after drafting a top young QB

Honestly after I did the math last night on how a young core is locked up on defense, I felt confident that Macc would be back.

The guy just got the franchise QB we have been looking for. I don't see how he gets fired.

But like my first post said, I go back and forth on all of this lol.

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Max......two ways to look at it. First, the positive.......any coach who could get this team to 8-8 should definitely be safe. May tell you the coach is much better at his job than the GM is. The negative........8-8 makes the owner believe the plan( $1mm if you can tell me what that is) is working.  Then there is reality..........the talent on this team and the coaching leave much to be desired, and have to be improved.

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Just now, Maxman said:

Honestly after I did the math last night on how a young core is locked up on defense, I felt confident that Macc would be back.

The guy just got the franchise QB we have been looking for. I don't see how he gets fired.

But like my first post said, I go back and forth on all of this lol.

I just don’t see the logic in firing Maccagnan just after drafting the top young QB. It just doesn’t make sense

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I just don’t see the logic in firing Maccagnan just after drafting the top young QB. It just doesn’t make sense

When I watch the offensive line I think wow Macc has really neglected the position. If Sam gets hurt because Spencer Long gets beat, that seems to be bad for the GM. My point is there are cases for both sides. I think the most likely outcome is that Bowles gets fired, Macc is safe. But depending on what happens the rest of the way that could change. The schedule goes a long way towards that.

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1 minute ago, Maxman said:

But if they go 8 and 8 and have 100 million in cap room wouldn't that make the case for both staying?

At 8-8 I’m sure the Johnsons keep them.  At 7-9 they both probably stay.  I think that’s shortsighted though. Unless you’re 100% committed that these two are the guys to lead the franchise going forward for the next 4-5 years, you get rid of both now.  This will be essentially a blank canvas with the most important position in the game already on the roster.  Would be a very attractive opening if the job was available on the open market.  If you allow Mac to screw this up, then you are setting this franchise back and possibly wasting Darnold on his rookie deal.  

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Bowles fulfilled his role of bringing in a toned down presence and shifting the perspective on the Jets after the trainwreck of the last couple of years of Rex. Mission Accomplished. The circus went across town. 

 

BUT...

He doesn't bring the team with its new franchise QB to the next level. His coaching style imo doesn't mesh with developing a FQB. The Defense has never performed as expected, and the gameday coaching and team preparation has been at times downright abyssmal. 4 years, the first a complete fluke that largely happened outside his control, and no real advancement in any facet. 

 

Time to move on. Thank you, Todd for your quiet, actually sometimes totally silent professionalism. Good luck on your next gig.

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Bowles I want to see gone no matter what.  Time and time again we've seen horrible decisions from him.  

Macc is the one I'm torn about.  He made the trade to move up and draft Darnold.  That was a great move on it's own.  The one real big downer for me however is the Hackenberg pick.  Every other pick that has not worked out you can make a case for but the Hackenberg one just leaves you scratching your head.

It boils down to do you want to see what he can do with the cap space we have this offseason?  If not, can you name someone that is better to make these moves?

As of now, I will be ok with Bowles going and giving MAcc one more chance to prove himself as a legitimate GM.  

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1 minute ago, Maxman said:

When I watch the offensive line I think wow Macc has really neglected the position. If Sam gets hurt because Spencer Long gets beat, that seems to be bad for the GM

I think the case for Macc is more pronounced if he doesn’t address the offense (including the line) this offseason. Because now he has a QB to protect.

And to be fair the Jets OL has not been the flaming dumpster that a lot of people thought it would be. I said this before, a lot of people thought Sam would get the David Carr treatment and that hasn’t been the case 

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Honest question: when a draft pick doesn't pan out, where's the line between bad scouting and bad coaching? 
 
Maybe a guy like Adarius Stewart could have become servcieable at the least.
 
Who's the last late round pick that was groomed by this coaching staff into a legit starter?
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The record should mean nothing re firing unless they make the playoffs.  5 wins vs 6 wins vs 7 wins vs 8 wins should not make a difference.  Look at how mac has done his job and look at bowles and say are these two going to get us a super bowl win?  The answer for me is no.  I like mac more than bowles but the right way would be to fire both, hire a good gm and let him pick the coach which of course is not what the jets will do.

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Unless we’re talking playoffs, final record shouldn’t matter. 8-8, 7-9, 6-10 what’s the difference? It’s like Rex getting a champagne shower after finishing 8-8 against an easy schedule.

At the end of 2018 we’ll have had four years to assess and judge their body of work. And hopefully that’s what the Johnsons will do, rather than putting stock the number of wins this team manages this year versus, as Max has pointed out, a pretty mediocre stretch of opponents the rest of the way.

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Both deserve to be fired.  I don't see how that's even debatable at this point. 

Will they is an entirely different and scarier question to try to answer.  I despise the idea they they'll be keeping both.  But perhaps even more terrifying is firing Bowles only, and allowing Macc to pick the next HC, plus handle the rest of this all-important offseason.

The only silver lining about a Maccagnan-led draft next spring is that at least Heimerdinger has started having a bigger say in who we take.  There's some hope there that we'll get some athletes on both sides of the ball, at premium positions, with his influence. 

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Should John Elway be fired for drafting Paxton Lynch? Hack was a trash pick buy it happens. 

I’m not sure the record has a ton to do with who gets fired. It will be based more on how Darnold does those last 8 weeks and what he thinks of the staff. I think that if he endorses Bowles/Bates everyone stays. If he expresses frustration everyone is gone.

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Given the current state of the team, the Jets would be extremely fortunate to get 3 wins the rest of the way which would give them 6 wins at best.  I don't think a 6-10 season with a roster full of holes after 4 years of attempting to build a team gets the GM or coach spared.  I think (hope) they're both gone. 

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Just now, ChuckkieB said:

Given the current state of the team, the Jets would be extremely fortunate to get 3 wins the rest of the way which would give them 6 wins at best.  I don't think a 6-10 season with a roster full of holes after 4 years of attempting to build a team gets the GM or coach spared.  I think (hope) they're both gone. 

2-3 wins max is I can see at this point.  I think we see Bowles fired so Chris Johnson can show us he cares but no way in hell he fires Macc too. Too much pressure. Bowles goes under the bus and Macc gets another draft to under achieve and  free agent spending spree to give a lot of money to guys who don;t play for it.

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You left out the most likely scenario. They go 5-11 yet both Bowles and Maccagnan stay. Chris Johnson says high. He already exposed himself when he admitted he decided on extending Bowles after only the first few games last year. He wants to and is looking for every reason to keep Bowles. Chris is a pleaser wannabe who desperately want to be pals with the players. As long as Bowles has the backing of the players no one will be fired until Woody get back from London.

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30 minutes ago, Maxman said:

I seriously go back and forth, round and round. 

Bowles is getting fired. He deserves it. Macc is safe, he drafted Darnold. They have a young nucleus on defense with Adams, Maye, Williams, Lee, T. Johnson, Sheperd and Avery Williamson. 

But wait, the offense is so bad, Macc is going to get fired for that.

Both Macc and Bowles are getting fired.

Then I look at the remaining schedule:

image.png

 

The remaining opponents have a record of 31 and 30.

You have the Patriots twice. Let's say the Jets lose both games, that gives them 7 losses on the year. But the opponents other than that are 19 and 26.

The Dolphins and Bills have QB issues right now. If the Jets win both of those games a .500 record would come down to winning 2 of 3 against the Titans, Packers and Texans. Two of which are at home.

It is a big if, but does anyone get fired if they get to 8 and 8 on the year?

I know wins and losses aren't the most important thing. But I don't see them firing anyone at 8 and 8. Granted the argument can be easily made that they won't sniff 8 wins, but I think they have a shot at it.

So I go round and round on who will be fired. It is frustrating, next year though they have to load up this offense and give Darnold some weapons.

 

If we wait to see the remaining games we are dumber than I thought.    Bowles is not HC material.   Mac will continue to draft project jags like Smith Hack etc.  

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GM's typically get at least 2 head coaches unless they're especially bad ala Idzik. Mac certainly hasn't been impressive but he has added some solid core players to build around and left himself a nice clean slate going into 2019 in terms of cap/roster. It's much more disruptive to a franchise when you have to replace the GM and the entire scouting staff.

How often do coaches with a losing record get a 5th year having never made the playoffs? 

If I had to guess I'd say we're looking at a new coaching staff with Mac retained. The only way I see that being different is if we are able to land a guy like Saban who demands full control.

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I think Ultimately unless we go on a crazy win streak to end the season Bowles will probably be fired. I think 6-10 or less does him in....7-9 or better might save him 

I think Mac should go as well, but with him drafting the future of the franchise(and maneuvering to get him) I think unfortunately he’s safe. Not sure if anyone worth having would take the job after we just fired the guy who just drafted the franchise’s future. So unfortunately he will pick the new coach, will spend the 100mil, and draft the parts to go around Darnold. 

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54 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

To me it seems simple. We have seen HCs get fired after drafting a young QB (Jeff Fisher) 

we have not seen a GM get fired after drafting a top young QB

Agree with this.. living with a .500 coach is just dumb in all facets. If we went 8-8 I would still want to fire Bowles. Because he is the exact same error prone HC he was since day 1, nothing has changed. To me, there is no way this guy will lead a team that can win a Super Bowl, which is and should be the goal. 

There should be nothing keeping Bowles here after this season. Take the Jeff Fisher scenario into account and it doesn't take any level of above average IQ to know that Jared Goff would be nothing close if Fisher had stayed. There is no arguing that. For the sake of Sam and any chance at getting the most out of him the best thing would be to move on.

As for Mac, I can take or leave him - it honestly doesn't matter to me. His drafting is not good. Would that change now that he would have to focus on surrounding Sam with offensive talent, unlikely. The only hiccup I have when just saying fire Mac is that this team has been in games and close, in some cases until Bowles blunder or blunders have pushed it out of reach. Unfortunately we are in a spot where, now, with what appears to be a Franchise QB we can't take half measures and keep any dead weight around. So Chris Johnson, suck it up. ... Fire Bowles for sure, Fire Mac.... Get a new GM in as early as possible to select his coach and give Sam offensive protection and talent. Time to stop f*cking around.

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I would be stunned if this team goes 8-8 this year. That would be a dramatic turnaround from what we have seen so far. In fact, I think even 6-10 will be difficult. As it stands now right I would say Bowles will be fired and Mac will stay. Bowles really needs turn this team around and I don't see it happening frankly. It's the same thing over and over. Dumb penalties, missed assignments, bad in-game decisions, lack of creativity in playcalling. Mac will stay because he got us Darnold, has us in good salary cap shape, and has shown some marginal competence in drafting. (this is what I think johnson will do) I would not be against both of them being fired but I don't see the johnsons canning Mac.

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