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Paradis

DEC 1st; Wilder vs Fury

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@Paradis

We spoke on this before. Anthony Joshua's team is stalling, trying to hold on as much as possible before having to fight Wilder. It's past the point of building up the fight. They're stalling.

Fury wanted the fight, so he stepped up and made it happen. I'm glad this fight is happening. Fury was the guy to end Wladimir Klitschko's decade long reign. And he hasn't lost since, so he's still technically "the guy" at HW. I'm also not a fan of Fury, so I'm hoping Wilder knocks him into oblivion/irrelevance.

I think the super fight will happen. Hopefully we get it in the summer of next year

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Thanks.

I’ve only seen Fury here and there. Tough bastard, but this seems like time to pay the piper for Tyson.

Anything else coming up in the coming months to watch for?


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20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Thanks.

I’ve only seen Fury here and there. Tough bastard, but this seems like time to pay the piper for Tyson.

Anything else coming up in the coming months to watch for?


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He's not that good IMO. He was dropped a light hitting cruiserweight in Steve Cunningham. Once Wilder connects with his straight right, he's done for. I met former Heavyweight champ Gerry Cooney, and he thinks Wilder gets Fury out early.

As for upcoming fights, there's no other real big fights being that it's the end of the yeat. But there are some guys you should check out that have fights in November/December...

- Alexander Ussyk (1 of the top Pound 4 Pound fighters) fights Tony Bellew next week in a unification fight to become the undisputed Cruiserweight champion of the world (CW is an overlooked division, but they put on very good fights)

- In 2 weeks Claressa Shields (2x olympic gold medalist is fighting. Women's boxing is making a resurgence, and she's leading the charge.

- in 3 weeks WBA light heavyweight champ Dmitry Bivol is fighting (kids got the goods)

- The week after Wilder/Fury, Vasyl Lomachenko returns to the ring (#1 P4P)

- December 15, Canelo Alvarez comes back

- December 22nd the Charlo brothers are fighting (I'll be there live). Hopefully I'll get to see them deliver knockouts, which both of them have been doing lately.

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Sweet, thanks for the tips. I'll put those in the calendar. I'm enjoying boxing these days more and more. Haven't followed the sport too closely since that late 90s era, early 2000s. 

I watched a couple fights and didn't see Tyson get tested in any of them. Limited sample albeit, but I didn't see anything to strike fear in the heart of Wilder. 

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16 hours ago, King P said:

He's not that good IMO. He was dropped a light hitting cruiserweight in Steve Cunningham. Once Wilder connects with his straight right, he's done for. I met former Heavyweight champ Gerry Cooney, and he thinks Wilder gets Fury out early.

As for upcoming fights, there's no other real big fights being that it's the end of the yeat. But there are some guys you should check out that have fights in November/December...

- Alexander Ussyk (1 of the top Pound 4 Pound fighters) fights Tony Bellew next week in a unification fight to become the undisputed Cruiserweight champion of the world (CW is an overlooked division, but they put on very good fights)

- In 2 weeks Claressa Shields (2x olympic gold medalist is fighting. Women's boxing is making a resurgence, and she's leading the charge.

- in 3 weeks WBA light heavyweight champ Dmitry Bivol is fighting (kids got the goods)

- The week after Wilder/Fury, Vasyl Lomachenko returns to the ring (#1 P4P)

- December 15, Canelo Alvarez comes back

- December 22nd the Charlo brothers are fighting (I'll be there live). Hopefully I'll get to see them deliver knockouts, which both of them have been doing lately.

Lomachenko v Pedraza is legit AF. If Loma wins the only fight that makes sense is Garcia as long as Garcia doesn't get murdered in the ring by Spence.

Pascal is a shell of himself. The only reason this stupid fight is happening is because the Bivol and Kovalev camps wanted to hold off and build the fight up and then Kovalev's whiny ass got laced.

Canelo fight's a joke. MW division is loaded but who cares, DLH got him paid so it's best to just ride out the DAZN deal now. I'll be shocked if he fights another top 5 opponent any time soon.

Word around LA out of Wild Card is the Charlo brothers are soft. Supposedly when they get challenged in the gym they tend to quit.

Tbh most of the MW division is getting annoying. Doesn't seem like any of these guys really wanna fight each other. Only two that are 'bout it are Jacobs and GGG.

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7 hours ago, Paradis said:

Sweet, thanks for the tips. I'll put those in the calendar. I'm enjoying boxing these days more and more. Haven't followed the sport too closely since that late 90s era, early 2000s. 

I watched a couple fights and didn't see Tyson get tested in any of them. Limited sample albeit, but I didn't see anything to strike fear in the heart of Wilder. 

Fury's a better and more accomplished boxer than Wilder. Wilder's a one-trick pony but his trick works damn well. I am a fan of both but it's really hard to believe that Fury is going to give Wilder the space to land his right. End of the day styles make fights and my personal belief is this is a really horrible matchup for Wilder. Wilder beats guys off of being bigger than them and/or cutting off the ring to eventually land that right, and Fury is not only bigger than Wilder but Fury moves freakishly well for a man his size. You can't cut the ring off on him. His footwork is too good.

I am a huge fan of Wilder's because he's just fun, but he's honestly a really overrated boxer. He has had a hard time with guys who aren't anywhere near the boxer that Fury is. Ortiz in particular, but even Gerald Washington (cab driver to the billionth degree) gave him fits before Wilder eventually caught him. I get that some will point to Cunningham knocking Fury down but Steve Cunningham was a legitimately great fighter and the guys who have given Wilder fits are not.

All said and done Joshua probably beats both and the only guy that can beat Joshua will probably be Tony Yoka after about 10 more fights.

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1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Lomachenko v Pedraza is legit AF. If Loma wins the only fight that makes sense is Garcia as long as Garcia doesn't get murdered in the ring by Spence.

Pascal is a shell of himself. The only reason this stupid fight is happening is because the Bivol and Kovalev camps wanted to hold off and build the fight up and then Kovalev's whiny ass got laced.

Canelo fight's a joke. MW division is loaded but who cares, DLH got him paid so it's best to just ride out the DAZN deal now. I'll be shocked if he fights another top 5 opponent any time soon.

Word around LA out of Wild Card is the Charlo brothers are soft. Supposedly when they get challenged in the gym they tend to quit.

Tbh most of the MW division is getting annoying. Doesn't seem like any of these guys really wanna fight each other. Only two that are 'bout it are Jacobs and GGG.

Spence is definitely going to beat the crap out of Mikey if that fight happens. It will be like GGG vs Brook.

Pascal is definitely washed, but Bivol is legit. I mentioned him just so that @Paradis could get a chance to see him.

Canelo fight is a stay busy fight, and he just fought 2 fights against GGG, so I'm ok with a stay busy fight. Afterwards we'll see where this goes.

I like the Charlos. Especially Jermall. We'll see how things go when they step up in competition.

Jacobs is definitely bout it. Funny you mention GGG, when his team is clearly keeping him away from Charlo. I think GGG is angling for a trilogy with Canelo and then retires after. I think we'll see Canelo vs Jacobs in the future, makes too much sense with them being on DAZN

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10 minutes ago, King P said:

Spence is definitely going to beat the crap out of Mikey if that fight happens. It will be like GGG vs Brook.

Pascal is definitely washed, but Bivol is legit. I mentioned him just so that @Paradis could get a chance to see him.

Canelo fight is a stay busy fight, and he just fought 2 fights against GGG, so I'm ok with a stay busy fight. Afterwards we'll see where this goes.

I like the Charlos. Especially Jermall. We'll see how things go when they step up in competition.

Jacobs is definitely bout it. Funny you mention GGG, when his team is clearly keeping him away from Charlo. I think GGG is angling for a trilogy with Canelo and then retires after. I think we'll see Canelo vs Jacobs in the future, makes too much sense with them being on DAZN

I don't know. Canelo and Joshua are such cash cows right now, so long as they can put up the numbers that they do I don't think their teams are going to put them in any more danger. Joshua can ride out the WK fight for at least another year or two and ditto for Canelo with the GGG decision. With both guys drawing the gates that they do, I honestly can't get too mad about it. End of the day, it's prizefighting, not fighting.

Personally the fight I'd actually like to see the most would be GGG/Jacobs II. We probably won't get it, but that first fight was great and Jacobs does have a belt now that he could lure GGG with.

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I have loved everything about the buildup to this fight. Showtime has done a fantastic job. I can't think of a HW championship fight ever where so much positive sh*t was on the line for both guys. Wilder is a good dude and a family man and genuinely wants to be a great American heavyweight champion. The passion in his voice when he talks about that just sucks you right in. Throw in how entertaining a fighter he is and it's hard not to be cheering him on.

On the other hand, Fury's entire goal with this is to inspire anyone that's been lost like was. Whatever happens it feels like he could go off and have another career as a motivational speaker if he wanted to be.

Anyways, I was watching some old Wilder fights the other night when I couldn't sleep and I think I'm putting my money on Fury. What I realized is that while Wilder has an incredibly underrated jab, his entire game is built off of his opponent eventually falling asleep at the wheel for a split second and staying on the center line, and then he lands that monster right which is without a doubt the best single punch in the world. Hard to believe that's going to happen with Fury. It could, but I doubt it. Styles make fights and I think this one favors Fury. I hope I'm both right and wrong. Both of these guys are good reps for boxing.

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On 11/4/2018 at 2:59 AM, King P said:

He's not that good IMO. He was dropped a light hitting cruiserweight in Steve Cunningham. Once Wilder connects with his straight right, he's done for. I met former Heavyweight champ Gerry Cooney, and he thinks Wilder gets Fury out early.

As for upcoming fights, there's no other real big fights being that it's the end of the yeat. But there are some guys you should check out that have fights in November/December...

- Alexander Ussyk (1 of the top Pound 4 Pound fighters) fights Tony Bellew next week in a unification fight to become the undisputed Cruiserweight champion of the world (CW is an overlooked division, but they put on very good fights)

- In 2 weeks Claressa Shields (2x olympic gold medalist is fighting. Women's boxing is making a resurgence, and she's leading the charge.

- in 3 weeks WBA light heavyweight champ Dmitry Bivol is fighting (kids got the goods)

- The week after Wilder/Fury, Vasyl Lomachenko returns to the ring (#1 P4P)

- December 15, Canelo Alvarez comes back

- December 22nd the Charlo brothers are fighting (I'll be there live). Hopefully I'll get to see them deliver knockouts, which both of them have been doing lately.

I know Cooney fought for the title against Holmes, but I don’t think he ever held it. Am I wrong?

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

I know Cooney fought for the title against Holmes, but I don’t think he ever held it. Am I wrong?

sh*t you're right, I just looked it up. Could have sworn he won a vacant belt at 1 point later on in his comeback. My mistake lol

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8 minutes ago, King P said:

sh*t you're right, I just looked it up. Could have sworn he won a vacant belt at 1 point later on in his comeback. My mistake lol

No biggie. I was a big fan of his years back. Even in his heyday he was a regular guy, hanging out in local bars and Roosevelt Raceway playing the trotters. To this day I wish he had gone all out for a early KO against Holmes. Never understood the plan they sent him into the ring with that night.

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I'm so hopped up for this one tonight!! Been lifting weights and doing cocaine all morning

Really pulling for a good fight. Can't handle this one being tainted some kind of controversy. I want the ref to wave his hands to call the fight in decisive manner. 

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6 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

how does this decision compare with GGG/Canelo v 1.0?

Way worse. At best, GGG won 8 rounds of that fight, I had it 7-5, but who knows. If you score a fight 7-5 and then it winds up a draw, that's not a robbery. Questionable decisions and robberies are two very different things.

Tyson Fury won, without question, at least 9 of those rounds. They were not even close by any measure. I will have to watch the fight again but I only had Wilder winning the 2nd. That's 9 rounds where he scored 10 points. Even if you give Wilder the 2nd, that still makes it a 115-111 fight for Fury. The 2 knockdowns were not enough per the scoring system of boxing. He was that far ahead.

And even given all that, if someone slips a draw in, I can MAYBE buy that, simply because sometimes when you're sitting right in front of things, fights look different than they do on TV. Maybe there was a round or two where Wilder was landing more cleanly than we thought and Fury wasn't. But to actually score the fight for Wilder? There is no way. No way in hell. That was the worst decision in boxing since Manny/Bradley 1.

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24 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

how does this decision compare with GGG/Canelo v 1.0?

Much worse. I'm actually 1 of those people that scored the fight for Canelo. The only thing bullsh*t about that fight was the 118-110 score for Canelo.

This wasn't close at all for me. Wilder only won 2 rounds definitely and those were the rounds he scored the knockdown. I generously gave him another round (2nd round). 115-111 for Fury. At worst its 114-112 but that's it.

Looking back, I'm not surprised at the decision. The whole purpose of making this fight was because Wilder was expected to beat Fury and give himself leverage in future negotiations for Anthony Joshua.

This was much like when GGG fought Danny Jacobs. A ton of people felt Jacobs won that fight, but they weren't gonna give him the fight and ruin the Canelo/GGG fight. Much like that fight, there's too much money in a Wilder/Joshua fight. Unless Fury knocked out Wilder, he wasn't getting a decision win

 

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2 hours ago, King P said:

Much worse. I'm actually 1 of those people that scored the fight for Canelo. The only thing bullsh*t about that fight was the 118-110 score for Canelo.

This wasn't close at all for me. Wilder only won 2 rounds definitely and those were the rounds he scored the knockdown. I generously gave him another round (2nd round). 115-111 for Fury. At worst its 114-112 but that's it.

Looking back, I'm not surprised at the decision. The whole purpose of making this fight was because Wilder was expected to beat Fury and give himself leverage in future negotiations for Anthony Joshua.

This was much like when GGG fought Danny Jacobs. A ton of people felt Jacobs won that fight, but they weren't gonna give him the fight and ruin the Canelo/GGG fight. Much like that fight, there's too much money in a Wilder/Joshua fight. Unless Fury knocked out Wilder, he wasn't getting a decision win

 

GGG/Jacobs was a very close fight. Hard to call that one questionable. I also had Jacobs winning but those were all close rounds and I can't blame judges for defaulting to the champ in rounds like that. Close rounds should go to the champ. Last night had practically no close rounds.

Hearn will probably milk Joshua for a little longer, especially with that new DAZN deal. My guess is Joshua fights Ortiz or the winner of Whyte/Chisora next, Usyk gets who Joshua doesn't fight, and then they'll set up Usyk/Joshua next year.

I don't think Hearn wants Joshua getting in with either guy from last night. Fury gives big men fits and I don't think Joshua is getting off the canvas like Fury did last night. At best if both of these guys keep the belts we'll get Joshua/Wilder in 2020. Doubt we'll ever get Fury v Joshua.

I don't think there is any doubt that Hearn wants to wait both of these guys out as long as possible, let them get older (especially Wilder), and keep getting 90k gates in the UK.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this.

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18 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

GGG/Jacobs was a very close fight. Hard to call that one questionable. I also had Jacobs winning but those were all close rounds and I can't blame judges for defaulting to the champ in rounds like that. Close rounds should go to the champ. Last night had practically no close rounds.

Hearn will probably milk Joshua for a little longer, especially with that new DAZN deal. My guess is Joshua fights Ortiz or the winner of Whyte/Chisora next, Usyk gets who Joshua doesn't fight, and then they'll set up Usyk/Joshua next year.

I don't think Hearn wants Joshua getting in with either guy from last night. Fury gives big men fits and I don't think Joshua is getting off the canvas like Fury did last night. At best if both of these guys keep the belts we'll get Joshua/Wilder in 2020. Doubt we'll ever get Fury v Joshua.

I don't think there is any doubt that Hearn wants to wait both of these guys out as long as possible, let them get older (especially Wilder), and keep getting 90k gates in the UK.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about all of this.

It's being reported that Eddie Hearn is flying out to LA as we speak to negotiate.

At the end of the day, Joshua vs Wilder is still the biggest money fight out there to be made. And we've now had 2 instances where the fight almost went up in flames. Team Joshua simply cannot afford to allow it to be put at further risk. It's gotta happen now

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2 hours ago, King P said:

It's being reported that Eddie Hearn is flying out to LA as we speak to negotiate.

At the end of the day, Joshua vs Wilder is still the biggest money fight out there to be made. And we've now had 2 instances where the fight almost went up in flames. Team Joshua simply cannot afford to allow it to be put at further risk. It's gotta happen now

Hey man I hope so. But team Joshua can afford to do whatever it wants and this is the nature of the business right now. Meetings and posturing don't count for much anymore. It took 5 years for Manny and Floyd to fight, 3-4 to get Canelo and GGG in the ring. Look at what Kovalev and Bivol tried pulling before Alvarez mucked it up, or how slow the WW division is moving in getting any of the top 3 guys in with each other.

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Fury clearly won the fight. The draw itself was an outrageous result but the score card made it quite obvious the fix was in. Fury was never getting the decision. That said - I’m pretty much Fury’s #1 dickrider so I couldn’t be too upset given I was still in awe of the fact that he came back from the dead. I’d have taken a draw when the count was at three lol.

Wilder’s team just have too much invested in him for him to lose the belt. They’re already talking about Joshua now. Had Fury got the decision Wilder would have been left on the side lines with Fury-Joshua being the biggest HW fight in decades, the biggest British fight in history. The money on the table for that fight would be too much for even Hearn’s mafia to f*ck up. I suspect now it will be Joshua-Wilder in the UK with Fury getting the winner. At least that’s how it should go.

Sad because I think Wilder’s stock takes a bigger hit with a draw than a defeat - with the fans at least. It took the most insane recovery I’ve ever seen in a boxing ring to beat him and now people will only remember the crooked decision. Same thing with Canelo vs GGG 1 when Alvarez  performed brilliantly but got nothing but heat over the decision. Too much stock is put into losses. They all have to fight each other eventually anyways.

The biggest loser on the night was Joshua. He has to step up now or will face ridicule. He can’t carry on fighting mediocrity like Whyte. His career has been carefully managed to this point but it’s clear there’s a big three now in HW boxing, at least until Usyk moves up – Fury has shown AJ up something serious by taking the Wilder fight in the US without any fuss the British fans are taking notice. I think both guys give AJ huge problems btw for very different reasons – Have always thought Fury just clowns him. 

If nothing else this fight is finally seeing Fury get the credit his skill merits. The media over here have done everything they can to destroy him, had completely written him off and tried to erase him from the history books. There’s absolutely nothing they can say to him now. 

Man is a f*cking hero. 

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man i'm just eating up all this knowledge and acumen..

where or how do you guys follow the sport? You just know who's who and whats what organically from following the sport for years and years...or how do you get your serving news and speculation?

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

man i'm just eating up all this knowledge and acumen..

where or how do you guys follow the sport? You just know who's who and whats what organically from following the sport for years and years...or how do you get your serving news and speculation?

I grew up watching boxing at a young age. I've just had a love for the sport and have always followed it for the longest. Boxing is 1B to Football'a 1A for me. So it's an organic thing for me.

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4 hours ago, Paradis said:

man i'm just eating up all this knowledge and acumen..

where or how do you guys follow the sport? You just know who's who and whats what organically from following the sport for years and years...or how do you get your serving news and speculation?

Both. I've been boxing since I was a kid as well and have always been in and around gyms. Ditto for MMA because of practicing BJJ regularly. I have a deep love for watching fights, going to fights, talking about fighting...etc, more so than even football; when you watch full cards you can usually catch the up-and-comers along with the main events.

Following the sport is pretty easy. The free coverage has gone way up the past couple years between ESPN and the networks, and RingTV always keeps the rankings and schedules up to date. Combat sports are easy to follow if you're proactive about following them, much like any of the major team sports. The coverage isn't as mainstream but it's there.

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