How demoralized would you be if Darnold busts?

[bitonti]

Just now, Saul Goodman said:

So wrong. I shouldn’t have to type this but the offensive line can’t hold blocks long enough for us to call for 3 and 5 step drops. I watch as many other NFL games as possible and I’m telling you, no other QB has pass rushers on them as quickly and consistently as Darnold. There’s been several games where he literally did not get a chance to set his feet and scan the field a single play. 

1

There are stats time in the pocket before pass attempt and Darnold is getting more time than most.  Statistically they are allowing the 4th fewest QB hits in the league. Something like 32 through 9 games, even after yesterday's effort where Sam took more hits than usual.   To put that number into perspective, Deshaun Watson has been hit 75 times. 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&archive=false&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT&qualified=true

***

Also, and I'm reiterating this because it's an absolute fact, Sam Darnold has no footwork experience doing 5 step drops, other than what they worked on in preseason. Considering all the other game planning etc that's on his plate the kid has also been trying to learn to take snaps from center. He almost never did it at USC or HS. To expect him to know how to just turn all the shotgun plays into 5 step drop plays, as the announcer said so blythely during the broadcast, is something Steve Young would know how to do, 20 years ago. Sam Darnold all he knows is passing out of the shot gun. Maybe a few years from now when he's 24 or 27 he can pull that trick. Not this year. and that's not on Bowles or Bates or Spencer Long. The kid has a limited set of skills right now. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

His parents chose how he spells his name and he snapped 100x better than that JAG scrub Long. 

he snaps 100x better he blocks 8000x worse 

[mrcoops]

I'd be absolutely devastated.

But I'm not going to be absolutely devastated.

This kid ain't Sanchez.  He's the real deal.

Now, we just need to find someone to coach him and some talent around him on O - especially on the Oline.

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he snaps 100x better he blocks 8000x worse 

Darnold picking the ball up off the carpet or over his head all day destroys the play before the play even starts. 

It was disturbing to watch and definitely played a part in the bad performance by Darnold and the offense. 

TIME FOR CHANGE 

 

[bitonti]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Darnold picking the ball up off the carpet or over his head all day destroys the play before the play even starts. 

It was disturbing to watch and definitely played a part in the bad performance by Darnold and the offense. 

TIME FOR CHANGE 

 

bad snaps play a part but they do not justify throwing interceptions, certainly not a pick 6, the only TD in a game that was all FG otherwise 

that's Sanchez stuff, take a sad song and make it worse? USC QB stuff. 

how about fall on the snap or throw it away? There's like a thousand things better than throwing the pick 6 there

maybe Spencer Long shouldn't have been in the game but he's not the reason Darnold leads the league in interceptions. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, bitonti said:

maybe Spencer Long shouldn't have been in the game but he's not the reason Darnold leads the league in interceptions. 

Correct part of the reason for that is the worst WR's in the NFL they run piss poor routes, they don't challenge defenders for an errant pass or do they go all out to make a catch or make an effort to keep their feet in bounds. 

Darnold is playing poorly agree but our WR's suck. 

[ASH1962]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Silly observation, ALL young QB's go through the struggles Darnold is facing now.

Just go back one year to Jared Goff, EVERYONE swore he was a bust after his first

year with Jeff Fisher

Jared Goff only got better BECAUSE OF A COACHING CHANGE. Having tons of stud players around him hasn't hurt either.

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Correct part of the reason for that is the worst WR's in the NFL they run piss poor routes, they don't challenge defenders for an errant pass or do they go all out to make a catch or make an effort to keep their feet in bounds. 

Darnold is playing poorly agree but our WR's suck. 

the WR do suck and so do the TE actually. But at least the team is 20 mil under the cap 

never know when you'll need that extra cash for a rainy London day 

[freestater]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

Silly observation, ALL young QB's go through the struggles Darnold is facing now.

Just go back one year to Jared Goff, EVERYONE swore he was a bust after his first

year with Jeff Fisher

The entire surrounding cast on offense is a mess. Q is the one guy who is a reliable skill guy, but misses time. Kearse looks like he's given up. The line is awful and the running game is non-existent. Imagine Sam stepping into the 09 team. The narrative would've been completely different 

[Saul Goodman]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There are stats time in the pocket before pass attempt and Darnold is getting more time than most.  Statistically they are allowing the 4th fewest QB hits in the league. Something like 32 through 9 games, even after yesterday's effort where Sam took more hits than usual.   To put that number into perspective, Deshaun Watson has been hit 75 times. 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=OFFENSIVE_LINE&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&archive=false&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_QBHIT&qualified=true

***

Also, and I'm reiterating this because it's an absolute fact, Sam Darnold has no footwork experience doing 5 step drops, other than what they worked on in preseason. Considering all the other game planning etc that's on his plate the kid has also been trying to learn to take snaps from center. He almost never did it at USC or HS. To expect him to know how to just turn all the shotgun plays into 5 step drop plays, as the announcer said so blythely during the broadcast, is something Steve Young would know how to do, 20 years ago. Sam Darnold all he knows is passing out of the shot gun. Maybe a few years from now when he's 24 or 27 he can pull that trick. Not this year. and that's not on Bowles or Bates or Spencer Long. The kid has a limited set of skills right now. 

Quantity of QB hits doesn’t indicate or prove that the line is holding blocks on passing plays. You know that. No one associated with the league or anyone in any team’s fanbase thinks the Jets have the “4th best offensive line” come on now. 

[bitonti]

Just now, Saul Goodman said:

Quantity of QB hits doesn’t indicate or prove that the line is holding blocks on passing plays. You know that. No one associated with the league or anyone in any team’s fanbase thinks the Jets have the “4th best offensive line” come on now. 

1

I didn't say they were 4th best but people talk about them like they were the 4th worst. They are a mediocre to average line who usually give Darnold the 3 seconds any NFL qb can realistically hope to expect. 

there are times where there are jailbreak blitzes that means the OL has 5 blockers and the D is sending 6 or more, that means someone is open. 

the QB is leading the league in INT that's the bullet wound on the offense. The o-line is a paper cut.   

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the WR do suck and so do the TE actually. But at least the team is 20 mil under the cap 

never know when you'll need that extra cash for a rainy London day 

Herndon seems to be a decent TE and I know Sterling is barring injury. 

WR's are bad Crowell included we bring players in from the worst teams in the NFL the Browns and expect different results. 

TIME FOR CHANGE 

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I didn't say they were 4th best but people talk about them like they were the 4th worst. They are a mediocre to average line who usually give Darnold the 3 seconds any NFL qb can realistically hope to expect. 

there are times where there are jailbreak blitzes that means the OL has 5 blockers and the D is sending 6 or more, that means someone is open. 

the QB is leading the league in INT that's the bullet wound on the offense. The o-line is a paper cut.   

What are the 37 awful snaps? 

[JetFaninMI]

While I applaud the unpopular thread topic I completely disagree with it. Darnold can play this game he just needs to have competent direction. Bates has proven he is not it. IMHO instead of bringing in another OC it's time to change it up and start over. Bowles has taken this team as far as he can. For whatever reason Bowles just can't get it done. It's time to change it up. 

[#27TheDominator]

28 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Lost in this discussion is how truly f-ing bad Jonotthan Harrison is

first off, look at how he spells his f-ing name.   

seriously tho, this is a guy who couldn't beat out Wesley Johnson for the starting center job last year. Think about that, he was worse than Wesley Johnson.  

look at the game again, harrison took about 12 snaps and gave up like 3 pressures. the refs weren't calling holding yesterday but he was holding like crazy, like arms wrapped around the guy heimlich style as he's running passed. He can snap but he can't block 

The current starting center for Miami was Travis Swanson a guy who was on our roster in preseason.  He seemed to be able to do both at a higher level than Harrison. 

I don't blame Bowles for sticking with Long. We could blame Mac for not investing more in OL depth.  But again the team is 20 mil under the cap for no real reason, who's fault is that? 

+1 on Harrison. 

They put him in for a series.  It was a disaster even compared to the bounced snaps.  I thought it was odd they kept Harrison over Swanson.  Did they even save $1M with that move?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

12 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Jared Goff only got better BECAUSE OF A COACHING CHANGE.

Jared Goff got better mostly because rookies get better. It is silly to attribute more than a small part of that to having a new coach and system.

[The Crusher]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

bad snaps play a part but they do not justify throwing interceptions, certainly not a pick 6, the only TD in a game that was all FG otherwise 

that's Sanchez stuff, take a sad song and make it worse? USC QB stuff. 

how about fall on the snap or throw it away? There's like a thousand things better than throwing the pick 6 there

maybe Spencer Long shouldn't have been in the game but he's not the reason Darnold leads the league in interceptions. 

Spencer Long simply doesn’t do his job. But yeah, maybe, he shouldn’t be in the game. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Jared Goff got better mostly because rookies get better. It is silly to attribute more than a small part of that to having a new coach and system.

This is a very good point. You have to start with a QB to end up with a QB. Everything else from coaching and surrounding cast plays a role but ultimately most of the time you end up with what yo started with. I guess Darnold is going to be taking the scenic route to QB competency. Just hope he doesn’t get lost. 

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

+1 on Harrison. 

They put him in for a series.  It was a disaster even compared to the bounced snaps.  I thought it was odd they kept Harrison over Swanson.  Did they even save $1M with that move?

 

i thought it was a vet minimum thing but they are both 27. Maybe Swanson has more accrued time? But yeah if there were savings it wasn't much

when they had Swanson and Long I figured 2 of those guys together would make it through 16 games and both were injury prone better than  Johnson and Harrison 

side note the waste of space that is Dakota Dozier cannot be overlooked. The guy couldn't learn how to snap in 4 years of bench sitting? 

as for Bowles, linemen are expected to play through gruesome injuries and the head coach's job is to let them try. 

[bitonti]

16 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Herndon seems to be a decent TE and I know Sterling is barring injury. 

WR's are bad Crowell included we bring players in from the worst teams in the NFL the Browns and expect different results. 

TIME FOR CHANGE 

Herndon is good in the sense he's flashing and might be good one day. He's not a solid option.  

meanwhile look at the Cardinals, Rosen has Ricky-Seals Jones and Jermaine Gresham two actual options not developmental like Herndon 

Sterling eats big boloney even when healthy. Leggett is meh and Tomlinson is a ST. 

 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Sterling eats big boloney even when healthy.

Disagree but thats my opinion given the opportunity he makes the best of it. 

Why Todd Bowles puts the starting TE Sterling on kickoffs is beyond me thats where he suffered the first concussion. 

[Philc1]

Darnold is playing with no receivers what do you guys want?

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i thought it was a vet minimum thing but they are both 27. Maybe Swanson has more accrued time? But yeah if there were savings it wasn't much

when they had Swanson and Long I figured 2 of those guys together would make it through 16 games and both were injury prone better than  Johnson and Harrison 

side note the waste of space that is Dakota Dozier cannot be overlooked. The guy couldn't learn how to snap in 4 years of bench sitting? 

as for Bowles, linemen are expected to play through gruesome injuries and the head coach's job is to let them try. 

I think they actually lost money.  Swanson is making $850K, Harrison $880K, plus there is $350K in dead money on Swanson. I think Swanson's deal was for $1.5M.  They both have 4 years.  They may have saved some money, but it was less than $500k.

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Herndon is good in the sense he's flashing and might be good one day. He's not a solid option.  

meanwhile look at the Cardinals, Rosen has Ricky-Seals Jones and Jermaine Gresham two actual options not developmental like Herndon 

Sterling eats big boloney even when healthy. Leggett is meh and Tomlinson is a ST. 

 

Not to mention Fitz and Kirk are way better than our WRs

[Philc1]

33 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Jared Goff only got better BECAUSE OF A COACHING CHANGE. Having tons of stud players around him hasn't hurt either.

All Goff has is an all pro LT, Running back and Brandin Cooks 

 

Want irony?  The jets could have drafted Cooks and Gurley and signed Andrew Whitworth

 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Truthfully Crush, a high snap is not an excuse for a pick 6 and it never will be. 

You are doing it the other way blaming everyone but the 21 year old kid. 

truthfully I blame the organization for trading Teddy/not playing Josh McCown and the fans for wanting it this way. Darnold was not the best QB in that room in July, and he's still not the best QB on the roster.  they should have let them actually compete, let the best player win the job and go from there. Like they do at every other position on the roster. Instead, they force fed the kid, but the franchise extended Bowles thru 2020 exactly so this could happen, if the point was to win games they'd have not extended Bowles and played McCown until he got hurt. 

 

The goal of this season is to get Darnold experience.   We all knew going into this season there would be plenty of ups and downs.  Next season we’ll have a ton of money to spend plus we might have another high draft pick.  I can’t expect even too much of Darnold even then because he’s so young but I think we’ll start to see his career take shape. But the bottom line is that I want Darnold to progress as the team does.  As long as we don’t get him injured or destroy his confidence then all is fine right now.  Peyton threw plenty of picks as a rookie.  Goff and Elway weren’t good their rookie seasons either. It takes some time 

[dbatesman]

57 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

This is the reason why you have to be scouting every QB class as if you dont have a QB. It's the foundational piece of every franchsise- why not increase your probability of landing one?

Because of the owner. Sanchez was here for five years and didn’t face any real competition until his fifth camp. Then Geno goes 12/20 his rookie year and somehow that’s enough to keep us from taking Bridgewater or Carr. Now suddenly we’re married to Darnold. I’m convinced that this comes from Woody. He meets these guys at the site visit and starts dreaming about owning the back pages, so these kids get tagged as the face of the franchise before they take a single snap because the owner cares more about the cover of the season ticket brochure than he does about winning. Meanwhile they go out there and toss the ball to the other team every week and we’re not allowed to draft any competition because, hey, face of the franchise.

[Philc1]

46 minutes ago, mrcoops said:

I'd be absolutely devastated.

But I'm not going to be absolutely devastated.

This kid ain't Sanchez.  He's the real deal.

Now, we just need to find someone to coach him and some talent around him on O - especially on the Oline.

If Sam has Sanchez’s OL, Braylon Edwards, Santonio Holmes and Jericho Cotchery I think the results would be different 

[southtown24th]

I would be done.

[14 in Green]

This team needs an Exorcism, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Next year, under a new GM and HC, the entire OCS and almost every position player has to be changed. Get rid of McCown and his ridiculous salary also, his 10m babysitting day job has to end. I'd keep Sam, Enunwa, Shell, Herndon, and Tay. Make the following moves: bring in a young, innovative COLLEGE coach to install a modern offense, even if its only as OC. Offer Bell a huge contract to come here. He's 27 and we desperately need a legitimate weapon on offense. Crowell, Kearse, and Powell etc? Thanks for the memories. If Robbie wants to come back at the rate of a #2 WR, fine, otherwise buh bye. Between the draft and UFA, load up on OL, look for a solid WR, and if you can still get a ER after all that, fine, do it. But this team is light years away from competing against the elite teams like NO, KC, LA, and NE. They look like they are in a different universe offensively. We have to come out of the Dark Ages on offense.

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

This team needs an Exorcism, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Next year, under a new GM and HC, the entire OCS and almost every position player has to be changed. Get rid of McCown and his ridiculous salary also, his 10m babysitting day job has to end. I'd keep Sam, Enunwa, Shell, Herndon, and Tay. Make the following moves: bring in a young, innovative COLLEGE coach to install a modern offense, even if its only at OC. Offer Bell a huge contract to come here. He's 27 and we desperately need a legitimate weapon on offense. Crowell, Kearse, and Powell etc? Thanks for the memories. If Robbie wants to come back at the rate of a #2 WR, fine, otherwise buh bye. Between the draft and UFA, load up on OL, look for a solid WR, and if you can still get a ER after all that, fine, do it. But this team is light years away from competing against the elite teams like NO, KC, LA, and NE. They look like they are in a different universe offensively. We have to come out of the Dark Ages offensively.

Want to fix the offense sign the following next offseason:

Ryan Kalil

Andy Levitre

Bobby Massie

Golden Tate 

Dez Bryant

Resign Quincy Enunwa

 

 

[VinnyT16]

2 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Sanchez was trash and had ZERO excuses with that great o-line and run game. Darnold has sucked but has been thrown into a GOD AWFUL offense both scheme and talent wise and still showed flashes. I love Darnold and I’m rooting for him but by no means am I crowning him.

I see potential that can be unlocked with the right people around him and think the team should move forward with him as the QB and just focus on building the offense around him at all costs. If he busts, he busts. It won’t be from this 1 year but change needs to happen. 

To be fair Sanchez and Geno showed flashes in year 1 as well despite the overall body of work being terrible. 

Its a tough sitution for the kid. Bowles is going to fall on the sword for him in year 1, but he will start feeling the heat year 2 if he doesnt show significant progress. Considering  at the end of year 2 he will be the same age as Baker this year its a tough spot to be in.

Darnold could be a cautionary tale for QBs leaving school early. 

 

 

 

[Butterfield]

I think Darnold will be fine, if he gets a new coaching staff and more talented players around him.  But, I do find it ridiculous that some people can't even imagine that he could possibly bust and point to how other qbs took the next step in year 2 or 3.  That is great, but there are also a lot of players who never took that next step.  And, usually, it's because they are surrounded by terrible coaches and less than stellar offensive players.  Hopefully, the jets are smarter than they have been in the past.

[VinnyT16]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Truthfully Crush, a high snap is not an excuse for a pick 6 and it never will be. 

You are doing it the other way blaming everyone but the 21 year old kid. 

truthfully I blame the organization for trading Teddy/not playing Josh McCown and the fans for wanting it this way. Darnold was not the best QB in that room in July, and he's still not the best QB on the roster.  they should have let them actually compete, let the best player win the job and go from there. Like they do at every other position on the roster. Instead, they force fed the kid, but the franchise extended Bowles thru 2020 exactly so this could happen, if the point was to win games they'd have not extended Bowles and played McCown until he got hurt. 

 

The positive to come out of this season is that it proved to everyone involved that Bowles and staff needed to go. Had Teddy started and the Jets won 9 games this regime would have been back and Sam would be screwed. 

At least now the kid might have a shot. 

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, VinnyT16 said:

To be fair Sanchez and Geno showed flashes in year 1 as well despite the overall body of work being terrible. 

Its a tough sitution for the kid. Bowles is going to fall on the sword for him in year 1, but he will start feeling the heat year 2 if he doesnt show significant progress. Considering he at the end of year 2 he will be the same age as Baker this year its a tough spot to be in.

Darnold could be a cautionary tale for QBs leaving school early. 

 

 

 

Oh great. Another reason why the New York fanbase and media will kill him. 

This is setting up wonderfully. The calls are already coming in to bench him