Jonah Williams

[Philc1]

On 1/3/2019 at 3:42 PM, nycdan said:

Let's make it more challenging.  What if Bosa and Allen go 1-2 and you are looking at Quinnen Williams vs. Jonah Williams?  Or do you go another way?

Trade the 3 pick to the giants for the 6 pick and Olivier Vernon.  Draft Jonah at 6

[sec101row23]

12 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Trade the 3 pick to the giants for the 6 pick and Olivier Vernon.  Draft Jonah at 6

That would be insanely foolish.  Vernon has a value of maybe a 4th rounder based on salary and lackluster play.  

[nycdan]

Bucky Brooks mock on nfl.com.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001013277/article/bucky-brooks-2019-nfl-mock-draft-10-pats-among-4-to-pick-qb

Jonah Williams is the 3rd OT taken in his mock, behind Jawaan Taylor and Cody Ford.  

FWIW (probably very little) walterfootball.com has them in the same order.

[Paradis]

take Ledyard with a grain of salt, but he has been unpeeling Jonah quite thoroughly as of late... there's enough weight behind what he's saying IMO... enough that i'm even less comfortable with him in the 1st round, let alone top 10. 

 

[maury77]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

take Ledyard with a grain of salt, but he has been unpeeling Jonah quite thoroughly as of late... there's enough weight behind what he's saying IMO... enough that i'm even less comfortable with him in the 1st round, let alone top 10. 

 

Damn, Jonah got put on skates there. 

[Paradis]

3 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Damn, Jonah got put on skates there. 

There’s more and more of this surfacing 

[derp]

Often when a guy starts to get the tackle to guard conversion tag it's for a good reason. I'm sure there's a recent example where this didn't happen that I'm not thinking of, but it's a pretty big red flag in the pre-draft process. Some of those guys end up being outstanding guards, but people started viewing Williams as a top 10 pick because they liked him as a tackle prospect originally. That despite being viewed that way, several analysts look at him and see a guard is telling IMO.

[nyjbuddy]

3 hours ago, derp said:

Often when a guy starts to get the tackle to guard conversion tag it's for a good reason. I'm sure there's a recent example where this didn't happen that I'm not thinking of, but it's a pretty big red flag in the pre-draft process. Some of those guys end up being outstanding guards, but people started viewing Williams as a top 10 pick because they liked him as a tackle prospect originally. That despite being viewed that way, several analysts look at him and see a guard is telling IMO.

There have been a lot of successful left tackles that were projected as guards or came from the guard position in college.  Here are a few starting left tackles with some of their draft profiles.  It might actually be a positive thing after reading through a few of these.  

Dion Dawkins - Bills LT - Pro Football Focus‘ fourth-best guard in this draft, Dawkins is an efficient pass and run blocker. The outlet gave Dawkins a pass blocking efficiency rating of 98.4, the fourth best amongst offensive tackles in the draft. The six-foot-four, 300+ pound prospect possesses tremendous strength and toughness, an attribute needed in offensive linemen.
-https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/04/28/2017-nfl-draft-instant-analysis-on-bills-selecting-dion-dawkins-in-round-two/

Laremy Tunsil - played LG his rookie year before moving to left tackle

David Bakhtiari - WEAKNESSES: Bakhtiari doesn't exactly have the ideal build for an Offensive Tackle as he is thin in the arms. He has difficulties when pass blocking on an island. He gets beat around the edge without slowing the rusher down and will lose ground against stiff contact due to not having the ability to sit down and anchor. A move to Guard is likely in his future. His deep drop steps aren't natural and stiff contact jolts him mid-stride. He loses on counter moves and gets thrown to the side when top heavy or leaning too far over, specifically when run blocking. Whiffs on cut blocks. - http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-bakhtiari?id=2540183

Terron Armstead - 4/23/13: Many teams like Armstead, and he is one of the better tackle prospects for the second day of the 2013 NFL Draft. Armstead played tackle for Arkansas Pine-Bluff, but some teams may move him to guard in the NFL. He performed well in postseason All-Star games in January, which has helped his draft stock. Armstead is a good athlete for his size who also is a track champion. He is a nice developmental prospect. http://walterfootball.com/draft2013OG.php#ixzz5fYoDThQq

Trenton Brown - BOTTOM LINE Brown has the pure size to block out the sun, and unlike some players with his bulk, he knows how to use it. He can plow holes as a run blocker, but can only play right guard in a power scheme. His lack of playing experience and conditioning concerns could hurt his draft stock. 
-http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/trenton-brown?id=2552350

Kelvin Beachum - WEAKNESSES Beachum is a soft prospect after putting four years on film. Although he comes off the ball and moves quickly, he is a non-explosive type who struggles to generate push on his man off the snap. He struggles in the run blocking game, which doesn't bode well for his development and projected move inside to guard. He didn't get many opportunities to showcase classic run blocking within SMU's scheme, and for NFL teams it will be somewhat of a crap shoot in terms of projecting his ability to effectively move to guard. Kelvin is a mirror and patty cake blocker who was effective and productive at SMU, but he has questionable NFL-transferable skills. -http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kelvin-beachum?id=2533442

Ronnie Stanely - Harbaugh said Stanley will obviously figure into the starting lineup based on his draft position. There's a "good chance" Stanley could start at left guard, just like Ogden did as a rookie, Harbaugh said.

Cordy Glenn - Cordy played tackle at Georgia and was a stalwart whether lined up there or at guard over the past four years. The fact that many teams will want to use him at guard and could have him on the roster for variable depth early is a big reason why he could go as early as the 3rd round in this year's draft. -http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cordy-glenn?id=2532849

Greg Robinson - BOTTOM LINE Big, strong, athletic, overpowering left tackle with the raw potential to become a premiere, franchise left tackle. Is only a third-year sophomore and two-year starter and still must improve his hand use, footwork and technique. However, he is undeniably gifted and capable of walking into a starting-left-tackle job in the pros and paving the way in the run game. 

I added this one as he was a "can't miss" left tackle prospect that did not turn out too well for him

Alejandro Villanueva - started as a defensive lineman

Andrew Whitworth - Draft Profile: Andrew Whitworth is a Offensive Guard from West Monroe, LA. He has committed to LSU Tigers.

[RobR]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

take Ledyard with a grain of salt, but he has been unpeeling Jonah quite thoroughly as of late... there's enough weight behind what he's saying IMO... enough that i'm even less comfortable with him in the 1st round, let alone top 10. 

 

At this point you're getting overly critical of his play. You're digging to find one bad play for every hundred snaps. Did you expect him to be perfect on every single snap of his entire career? He's a true junior that started for Bama since he was a freshman and just turned 21 a few months ago. 

We'll see what happens at the combine regarding his length but I guarantee he will look flawless in positional drills.   

[derp]

18 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

There have been a lot of successful left tackles that were projected as guards or came from the guard position in college.  Here are a few starting left tackles with some of their draft profiles.  It might actually be a positive thing after reading through a few of these.  

Dion Dawkins - Bills LT - Pro Football Focus‘ fourth-best guard in this draft, Dawkins is an efficient pass and run blocker. The outlet gave Dawkins a pass blocking efficiency rating of 98.4, the fourth best amongst offensive tackles in the draft. The six-foot-four, 300+ pound prospect possesses tremendous strength and toughness, an attribute needed in offensive linemen.
-https://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/04/28/2017-nfl-draft-instant-analysis-on-bills-selecting-dion-dawkins-in-round-two/

Laremy Tunsil - played LG his rookie year before moving to left tackle

David Bakhtiari - WEAKNESSES: Bakhtiari doesn't exactly have the ideal build for an Offensive Tackle as he is thin in the arms. He has difficulties when pass blocking on an island. He gets beat around the edge without slowing the rusher down and will lose ground against stiff contact due to not having the ability to sit down and anchor. A move to Guard is likely in his future. His deep drop steps aren't natural and stiff contact jolts him mid-stride. He loses on counter moves and gets thrown to the side when top heavy or leaning too far over, specifically when run blocking. Whiffs on cut blocks. - http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-bakhtiari?id=2540183

Terron Armstead - 4/23/13: Many teams like Armstead, and he is one of the better tackle prospects for the second day of the 2013 NFL Draft. Armstead played tackle for Arkansas Pine-Bluff, but some teams may move him to guard in the NFL. He performed well in postseason All-Star games in January, which has helped his draft stock. Armstead is a good athlete for his size who also is a track champion. He is a nice developmental prospect. http://walterfootball.com/draft2013OG.php#ixzz5fYoDThQq

Trenton Brown - BOTTOM LINE Brown has the pure size to block out the sun, and unlike some players with his bulk, he knows how to use it. He can plow holes as a run blocker, but can only play right guard in a power scheme. His lack of playing experience and conditioning concerns could hurt his draft stock. 
-http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/trenton-brown?id=2552350

Kelvin Beachum - WEAKNESSES Beachum is a soft prospect after putting four years on film. Although he comes off the ball and moves quickly, he is a non-explosive type who struggles to generate push on his man off the snap. He struggles in the run blocking game, which doesn't bode well for his development and projected move inside to guard. He didn't get many opportunities to showcase classic run blocking within SMU's scheme, and for NFL teams it will be somewhat of a crap shoot in terms of projecting his ability to effectively move to guard. Kelvin is a mirror and patty cake blocker who was effective and productive at SMU, but he has questionable NFL-transferable skills. -http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kelvin-beachum?id=2533442

Ronnie Stanely - Harbaugh said Stanley will obviously figure into the starting lineup based on his draft position. There's a "good chance" Stanley could start at left guard, just like Ogden did as a rookie, Harbaugh said.

Cordy Glenn - Cordy played tackle at Georgia and was a stalwart whether lined up there or at guard over the past four years. The fact that many teams will want to use him at guard and could have him on the roster for variable depth early is a big reason why he could go as early as the 3rd round in this year's draft. -http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/cordy-glenn?id=2532849

Greg Robinson - BOTTOM LINE Big, strong, athletic, overpowering left tackle with the raw potential to become a premiere, franchise left tackle. Is only a third-year sophomore and two-year starter and still must improve his hand use, footwork and technique. However, he is undeniably gifted and capable of walking into a starting-left-tackle job in the pros and paving the way in the run game. 

I added this one as he was a "can't miss" left tackle prospect that did not turn out too well for him

Alejandro Villanueva - started as a defensive lineman

Andrew Whitworth - Draft Profile: Andrew Whitworth is a Offensive Guard from West Monroe, LA. He has committed to LSU Tigers.

It’s a nice list but the majority of them are guys who were always day 2-3 prospects who ended up being NFL LT’s. If these guys didn’t exist LT’s would only be drafted in the top 10. I’d also argue most if not all would be djsappointments if drafted at 3 or in the top 10 which is largely the context of the Williams discussion.

I was referring to the guys who were getting projected in the top 10 overall as LT’s but some thought they might project better to guard. And really more specifically, ones who the guard projection isn’t just because they’re big. Thinking like Brandon Scherff. Zach Martin is close.

Bakhtiari, Brown, Armstead, Beachum were never on that radar. For each of those four there are 10 Brian Winters’, Dakota Dozier’s, and Vlad Ducasse’s who actually couldn’t play tackle. Glenn and Whitworth were always day 2 guys, and both considerably bigger than Williams which was part of the guard projection.

 Tunsil and Stanley just had pit stops in their way to LT because of team needs, nobody viewed it as a long term home.

Riley Reiff might be a good comparable for Williams as a possible stick to tackle despite getting knocked down due to concerns he’d be a guard. I feel like he was projected high at a point.

[nyjbuddy]

1 hour ago, derp said:

It’s a nice list but the majority of them are guys who were always day 2-3 prospects who ended up being NFL LT’s. If these guys didn’t exist LT’s would only be drafted in the top 10. I’d also argue most if not all would be djsappointments if drafted at 3 or in the top 10 which is largely the context of the Williams discussion.

I was referring to the guys who were getting projected in the top 10 overall as LT’s but some thought they might project better to guard. And really more specifically, ones who the guard projection isn’t just because they’re big. Thinking like Brandon Scherff. Zach Martin is close.

Bakhtiari, Brown, Armstead, Beachum were never on that radar. For each of those four there are 10 Brian Winters’, Dakota Dozier’s, and Vlad Ducasse’s who actually couldn’t play tackle. Glenn and Whitworth were always day 2 guys, and both considerably bigger than Williams which was part of the guard projection.

 Tunsil and Stanley just had pit stops in their way to LT because of team needs, nobody viewed it as a long term home.

Riley Reiff might be a good comparable for Williams as a possible stick to tackle despite getting knocked down due to concerns he’d be a guard. I feel like he was projected high at a point.

Agreed.  I was thinking the same as you concerning tackles being projected as guards in the NFL.  I was just using ourlads' list of starting LT and searched for draft profiles.  I was surprised at how many current starting LT had the term guard somewhere in their profile.  I didn't go through the full list but it would be interesting to see if this is a common trend among starting left tackles in the NFL.  The fact that a scout projects a player at a certain position doesn't carry a lot of weight as to where that player ends up playing.

[derp]

7 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Agreed.  I was thinking the same as you concerning tackles being projected as guards in the NFL.  I was just using ourlads' list of starting LT and searched for draft profiles.  I was surprised at how many current starting LT had the term guard somewhere in their profile.  I didn't go through the full list but it would be interesting to see if this is a common trend among starting left tackles in the NFL.  The fact that a scout projects a player at a certain position doesn't carry a lot of weight as to where that player ends up playing.

I do think the bigger takeaway from that list, and I don’t know if there aren’t common traits there, is that a reasonable amount of starting LT’s are day 2-3 picks who potentially projected to guard. Granted the Jets have picked plenty who have been average at best.

[Paradis]

14 hours ago, RobR said:

At this point you're getting overly critical of his play. You're digging to find one bad play for every hundred snaps. Did you expect him to be perfect on every single snap of his entire career? He's a true junior that started for Bama since he was a freshman and just turned 21 a few months ago. 

We'll see what happens at the combine regarding his length but I guarantee he will look flawless in positional drills.   

It’s true, and I’m glad you’re pushing back to keep us sheep in check... I will say that the more time ppl spend watching Jonah, the more they have questions. Which is fine. But ideally you’d like to see the opposite. 

Regardless, for me, I wasn’t crazy about #3 on Jonah and I’m more firm on that now. 

[nyjbuddy]

4 hours ago, derp said:

I do think the bigger takeaway from that list, and I don’t know if there aren’t common traits there, is that a reasonable amount of starting LT’s are day 2-3 picks who potentially projected to guard. Granted the Jets have picked plenty who have been average at best.

My take away was that pre-draft scout analysis for projecting player position is spotty at best.  The team that drafts the player, coaching staff, scheme-fit, team-fit, other player performances, injuries have a larger impact on where the player will play.  Hard to know right now whether the prospect will move to another position.  

[Philc1]

On 2/15/2019 at 2:49 AM, RobR said:

At this point you're getting overly critical of his play. You're digging to find one bad play for every hundred snaps. Did you expect him to be perfect on every single snap of his entire career? He's a true junior that started for Bama since he was a freshman and just turned 21 a few months ago. 

We'll see what happens at the combine regarding his length but I guarantee he will look flawless in positional drills.   

A couple years ago the same people said Cam Robinson would have to move inside to Guard and he’s now a very god Left Tackle for the Jags

 

Is Jonah going to be great? No but he will be a good Left Tackle in the nfl

[Rolloffjet]

11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

A couple years ago the same people said Cam Robinson would have to move inside to Guard and he’s now a very god Left Tackle for the Jags

 

Is Jonah going to be great? No but he will be a good Left Tackle in the nfl

Maybe he will but for the #3 pick in the draft he better be a starter and all pro in a couple of years to warrant that spot especially when you have prospects on the defense that are graded way higher. Don’t reach in draft go oline in fa and draft highest rated player. Unless we can trade out. 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 2/14/2019 at 4:12 PM, Paradis said:

take Ledyard with a grain of salt, but he has been unpeeling Jonah quite thoroughly as of late... there's enough weight behind what he's saying IMO... enough that i'm even less comfortable with him in the 1st round, let alone top 10. 

 

been saying he wasnt top 5 worthy for a while, but the more and more I watch I just get more and more leery. I dont like that feeling for a top 10 guy even top 15. I'm no OL guru, i know enough to see things though, and I just dont know about him.  He's got really good technique but sometimes I watch him and i just wonder if he has the elite athleticism you look for. 

[Philc1]

18 hours ago, Rolloffjet said:

Maybe he will but for the #3 pick in the draft he better be a starter and all pro in a couple of years to warrant that spot especially when you have prospects on the defense that are graded way higher. Don’t reach in draft go oline in fa and draft highest rated player. Unless we can trade out. 

Trading down is way easier said than done.  I think the Cardinals take one of the qbs at 1 and trade Rosen

[NYDreamer]

Just saw this write up for Buffalo Bills Wish list:  It makes sense for the Jets.  Right before the draft, we all start hearing about guys that came on to the scene and move up draft boards and we become blinded by the hype.  Jonah Williams has been the starter playing for Alabama at LT for 4 years.  If you go by the Parcells philosophy this player makes sense for offense:

Now it's matter of building the offense around him. The receiving corps is one of the NFL's weakest. The offensive line allowed 41 sacks (14th-worst) and ranked 23rd in pass protection, per Football Outsiders.

The latter needs a no-brainer fix—provided that Alabama tackle Jonah Williams makes it to them at No. 9.

Chris Trapasso of CBSSports.com doesn't just believe that Williams is the best offensive lineman available in 2019—he thinks there's only one other prospect who is better in the entire class:

"Williams (currently my No. 2 overall prospect) has started on the edge for the Crimson Tide since his freshman season. He's the opposite of a project, a fundamentally sound technician with plus athleticism and developed strength to deal with every type of pass-rusher. While Nick Saban's club is known for its running prowess, its offense utilizes a plethora of spread concepts."

If Trapasso's right, Williams would be a dream get in Western New York.

 

 

[Jet_Engine1]

But we can't draft him at #3, because that would be dumb and stupid. If we trade back and pick him at 6, we are brilliant geniuses. Because "value" and that time Clellin Ferrell beat him that one play.....

[nycdan]

17 hours ago, NYDreamer said:

Just saw this write up for Buffalo Bills Wish list:  It makes sense for the Jets.  Right before the draft, we all start hearing about guys that came on to the scene and move up draft boards and we become blinded by the hype.  Jonah Williams has been the starter playing for Alabama at LT for 4 years.  If you go by the Parcells philosophy this player makes sense for offense:

Now it's matter of building the offense around him. The receiving corps is one of the NFL's weakest. The offensive line allowed 41 sacks (14th-worst) and ranked 23rd in pass protection, per Football Outsiders.

The latter needs a no-brainer fix—provided that Alabama tackle Jonah Williams makes it to them at No. 9.

Chris Trapasso of CBSSports.com doesn't just believe that Williams is the best offensive lineman available in 2019—he thinks there's only one other prospect who is better in the entire class:

"Williams (currently my No. 2 overall prospect) has started on the edge for the Crimson Tide since his freshman season. He's the opposite of a project, a fundamentally sound technician with plus athleticism and developed strength to deal with every type of pass-rusher. While Nick Saban's club is known for its running prowess, its offense utilizes a plethora of spread concepts."

If Trapasso's right, Williams would be a dream get in Western New York.

 

 

Just to be clear, this same guy had Mason Rudolph ranked as the top QB last year.  Top.  Over Baker, Sam and the rest. 

In fact, he had them Rudoph, Jackson, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-greatest-strengths-biggest-flaws-of-qb-prospects/

This is who you are hitching your wagon to.

[NYDreamer]

8 hours ago, nycdan said:

Just to be clear, this same guy had Mason Rudolph ranked as the top QB last year.  Top.  Over Baker, Sam and the rest. 

In fact, he had them Rudoph, Jackson, Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Allen.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-greatest-strengths-biggest-flaws-of-qb-prospects/

This is who you are hitching your wagon to.

I guess we will have to see over time.  Could be a genius if it works out ?

[Philc1]

On 2/19/2019 at 9:21 AM, Jet_Engine1 said:

But we can't draft him at #3, because that would be dumb and stupid. If we trade back and pick him at 6, we are brilliant geniuses. Because "value" and that time Clellin Ferrell beat him that one play.....

Yes and let’s just forget all the times Jonah did a good job blocking Ferrell on passing plays in that same game

[nyjbuddy]

 

 

[section314]

Good Lord. That would put this place in free fall.

[maury77]

Jonah Williams is such a Maccagnan pick. Big school player with a very high floor. 

[Augustiniak]

41 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Jonah Williams is such a Maccagnan pick. Big school player with a very high floor. 

yes and i am predicting the jets take him if they trade back.  

[Peace Frog]

Look, I wouldn’t run to the dais for Jonah if Bosa and Allen are off the board, I try like hell to trade back a bit but if there are no willing partners and Mac makes this pick, I wouldn’t hate it. 

Build the line and let Sam flourish. 

The trade for Osemele was my favorite move of the offseason and adding a potential 10 year starter at LT would be icing on the proverbial cake.

I get it may be way too high to take him but I really want to build a Dallas like offensive line (from 2 years ago) and I wouldn’t hate this move. Plus he’s a really smart dude, I like those types.

 

[BklynJetsFan85]

Without reading entire convo - I like Jawaan Taylor from Florida and Andre Dillard from Washington State much better than Jonah Williams