It starts with talent

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Plenty of talent on this team to beat Cleveland, Miami, Buffalo, Jax.... Bowles and Co. failed the team this season

Our roster talent is only marginally better than those teams if that’s even true

[phill1c]

32 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

1 year? How about 4 years. Also, why just start building the o-line now when he knew he would eventually get a rookie QB? If you can’t see that, then whatever, it’s your opinion. It’s just an odd stance. 

That's why I thought it was a reach to draft Darnold. Your OL sucks, I don't care what anyone says. They had 3 2nd round picks that could have been used in any number of ways to add to the talent level on offense.

That said, the offensive mindset does not fit the players we have. I think if we were more daring on offense, defenses would have to respect us more. In other words, do what they are not expecting.

And why would any coach be as wedded to the run in a league where more often than not, you'll need to score quickly and often to win games? Do you think the Patriots game plan to do one thing well? No, they game plan to do everything well. And they don't give a damn if they run the ball once if they know your pass defense sucks.

The Jets under Bowles have become unwatchable. Is he THE reason they are, maybe not. But I have not seen enough improvement in several deficient areas:

• clock management: hasn't quite mastered it to any tangible degree
• offense: doesn't understand its importance.
• teams are undisciplined: penalties, bonehead plays, being flat at the beginnings of most games.
• no killer instinct.

These deficiencies are not ones you want to deeply instill in your franchise QB.

Yeah, the talent level is deficient, but it was much worse, IMO, two years ago. and who would have thought that Richardson AND Wilkerson would be such monumental disappointments?

[Philc1]

Macagnan is the bigger issue than Bowles.  His drafts 2015-2017 were horrible

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, phill1c said:

That's why I thought it was a reach to draft Darnold. Your OL sucks, I don't care what anyone says. They had 3 2nd round picks that could have been used in any number of ways to add to the talent level on offense.

That said, the offensive mindset does not fit the players we have. I think if we were more daring on offense, defenses would have to respect us more. In other words, do what they are not expecting.

And why would any coach be as wedded to the run in a league where more often than not, you'll need to score quickly and often to win games? Do you think the Patriots game plan to do one thing well? No, they game plan to do everything well. And they don't give a damn if they run the ball once if they know your pass defense sucks.

The Jets under Bowles have become unwatchable. Is he THE reason they are, maybe not. But I have not seen enough improvement in several deficient areas:

• clock management: hasn't quite mastered it to any tangible degree
• offense: doesn't understand its importance.
• teams are undisciplined: penalties, bonehead plays, being flat at the beginnings of most games.
• no killer instinct.

These deficiencies are not ones you want to deeply instill in your franchise QB.

Yeah, the talent level is deficient, but it was much worse, IMO, two years ago. and who would have thought that Richardson AND Wilkerson would be such monumental disappointments?

In a perfect world, you build the rest of the team and then get the rookie QB while having a 5 year window on a rookie deal. Perfect things rarely happen. You kind of have to take a good QB prosepect when you have a need for one, there are actual good prospects and you are in a position to get one.

I don’t blame the Jets for getting Darnold and wouldn’t have blamed them for getting Watson/Mahomes the year before. Good QBs are rare. 

I do 100% agree that it’s ideal to have the rest of the team built and then get he QB. 

[Patriot Killa]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Macagnan is the bigger issue than Bowles.  His drafts 2015-2017 were horrible

 

5 minutes ago, phill1c said:

That's why I thought it was a reach to draft Darnold. Your OL sucks, I don't care what anyone says. They had 3 2nd round picks that could have been used in any number of ways to add to the talent level on offense.

That said, the offensive mindset does not fit the players we have. I think if we were more daring on offense, defenses would have to respect us more. In other words, do what they are not expecting.

And why would any coach be as wedded to the run in a league where more often than not, you'll need to score quickly and often to win games? Do you think the Patriots game plan to do one thing well? No, they game plan to do everything well. And they don't give a damn if they run the ball once if they know your pass defense sucks.

The Jets under Bowles have become unwatchable. Is he THE reason they are, maybe not. But I have not seen enough improvement in several deficient areas:

• clock management: hasn't quite mastered it to any tangible degree
• offense: doesn't understand its importance.
• teams are undisciplined: penalties, bonehead plays, being flat at the beginnings of most games.
• no killer instinct.

These deficiencies are not ones you want to deeply instill in your franchise QB.

Yeah, the talent level is deficient, but it was much worse, IMO, two years ago. and who would have thought that Richardson AND Wilkerson would be such monumental disappointments?

Your usernames...I’m so confused. 

Why are you responding on different two accounts to the same conversation? Am I high?

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, phill1c said:

That's why I thought it was a reach to draft Darnold. Your OL sucks, I don't care what anyone says. They had 3 2nd round picks that could have been used in any number of ways to add to the talent level on offense.

That said, the offensive mindset does not fit the players we have. I think if we were more daring on offense, defenses would have to respect us more. In other words, do what they are not expecting.

And why would any coach be as wedded to the run in a league where more often than not, you'll need to score quickly and often to win games? Do you think the Patriots game plan to do one thing well? No, they game plan to do everything well. And they don't give a damn if they run the ball once if they know your pass defense sucks.

The Jets under Bowles have become unwatchable. Is he THE reason they are, maybe not. But I have not seen enough improvement in several deficient areas:

• clock management: hasn't quite mastered it to any tangible degree
• offense: doesn't understand its importance.
• teams are undisciplined: penalties, bonehead plays, being flat at the beginnings of most games.
• no killer instinct.

These deficiencies are not ones you want to deeply instill in your franchise QB.

Yeah, the talent level is deficient, but it was much worse, IMO, two years ago. and who would have thought that Richardson AND Wilkerson would be such monumental disappointments?

When you have the opportunity to draft a franchise QB like Darnold you do it every single time if you don't have one regardless of your roster.

The big problem is our GM failed too address the offensive side of the ball or failed miserably at it, that he put that FQB in a terrible position too succeed. Then you can sprinkle in some Bowles.

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

 

Your usernames...I’m so confused. 

Why are you responding on different two accounts to the same conversation? Am I high?

Phill1c is the guy who tries to get me in trouble with the mods

[RobR]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Phill1c is the guy who tries to get me in trouble with the mods

How about your sister Sybil?

[Philc1]

Macagnan is the bigger problem than Bowles. Both should be fired

[Hael]

There is some talent on the defense, but it's

1) too expensive for what it produces

2) drafted too high for what it produces

3) No where near enough (both in quality and quantity)

All of those statements reflects quite poorly on the GM.   Someone who inherited a war room of money and draft picks from his predecessor.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

We have plenty of talent. Now is there a lack of development and poor game planning or are all these guys devoid of mental acumen? Probably a little of both, but we have enough raw talent to beat Barkley. 

  

Link?

[detectivekimble]

52 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Macagnan is the bigger issue than Bowles.  His drafts 2015-2017 were horrible

I can see Maccagnan trying to convince the Johnsons that the plan all along was to suck these last two years, point to the $100 million in cap space and ask the to let him finish implementing his plan.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

I can see Maccagnan trying to convince the Johnsons that the plan all along was to suck these last two years, point to the $100 million in cap space and ask the to let him finish implementing his plan. 

* these last THREE years

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

I have a feeling after both Bowles & Maccagnan are FIRED, I'll be dancing on the ceiling.

If and when that happens, everyone you meet will be dancing on the street. 

[detectivekimble]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

* these last THREE years

I think Mac is stuck in the 1980s/1990s.  Two old timers -- Casserly and Wolf -- chose Mac.  I don't believe he's suited for the modern NFL.

[Jetsfan80]

Here's 11 good reasons why, as bad as Todd Bowles is, Mike Maccagnan is even worse:

 

* Devin Smith

* Lorenzo Mauldin

* Bryce Petty

* Jarvis Harrison

* Christian Hackenberg

* Juston Burris

* Marcus Maye

* ArDarius Stewart

* Chad Hansen

* Jordan Leggett

* Dylan Donahue

 

And here's a few more:

 

* $39 million guaranteed to Darrelle Revis

* $13 million guaranteed to Buster Skrine

* Marcus Gilchrist

* Percy Harvin

* Matt Forte

* Ryan Clady

* Spencer Long

* Trumaine Johnson

[NYs Stepchild]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Link?

I've seen them. They have talent. They may not know how to play football but that may or may not be on the coaching/scheme. 

I've seen Robbie out run, and out jump some of the best corners in the league. He does not always run the right routes, and doesn't always run.

I've seen Q run over 5 guys on his way to the end zone. Kearse has had some great games in his career. 

I've seen Crowell run for 200+ yards with our oline. 

These guys have all done some pretty good things. They just don't do them often. That to me is on the coaching. They need  better schemes and flexible schemes that can adjust to a defense... and they need some God damn discipline. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I've seen them. They have talent. They may not know how to play football but that may or may not be on the coaching/scheme. 

I've seen Robbie out run, and out jump some of the best corners in the league. He does not always run the right routes, and doesn't always run.

I've seen Q run over 5 guys on his way to the end zone. Kearse has had some great games in his career. 

I've seen Crowell run for 200+ yards with our oline. 

These guys have all done some pretty good things. They just don't do them often. That to me is on the coaching. They need  better schemes and flexible schemes that can adjust to a defense... and they need some God damn discipline.  

 

When you only do some good things some of the time, that's only partially on coaching. 

Robby Anderson has talent.  But ask him to run anything but a go route and he's useless.  He was an awesome UDFA addition, but shouldn't be our WR1.  It's only because our GM sucks at drafting that he is in that role. 

Enunwa is our best WR.  But Macc can't take credit for him.

Kearse is a JAG. 

[Philc1]

26 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

I can see Maccagnan trying to convince the Johnsons that the plan all along was to suck these last two years, point to the $100 million in cap space and ask the to let him finish implementing his plan.

I never bought the “true rebuild” party line 

 

To me it’s a total cop out.  The rams sucked just 2 seasons ago now they are by far the NFL’s best team.  It’s not that hard just make a couple good draft picks and sign some good players

 

[detectivekimble]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I never bought the “true rebuild” party line 

 

To me it’s a total cop out.  The rams sucked just 2 seasons ago now they are by far the NFL’s best team.  It’s not that hard just make a couple good draft picks and sign some good players

 

And you have the QB now.  No more rebuilding.  Load up and reload. 

[Philc1]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's 11 good reasons why, as bad as Todd Bowles is, Mike Maccagnan is even worse:

 

* Devin Smith

* Lorenzo Mauldin

* Bryce Petty

* Jarvis Harrison

* Christian Hackenberg

* Juston Burris

* Marcus Maye

* ArDarius Stewart

* Chad Hansen

* Jordan Leggett

* Dylan Donahue

 

And here's a few more:

 

* $39 million guaranteed to Darrelle Revis

* $13 million guaranteed to Buster Skrine

* Marcus Gilchrist

* Percy Harvin

* Matt Forte

* Ryan Clady

* Spencer Long

* Trumaine Johnson

Macagnan’s drafts, free agent signings etc have sucked

 

So what he somehow got a couple picks for Sheldon and Bridgewater?  Has he proven any ability to not botch those picks?

 

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

And you have the QB now.  No more rebuilding.  Load up and reload. 

It’s not that hard to rebuild in the nfl.  Look at Whitworth and Gurley on the rams the jets easily had the opportunity to get both players 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

I know its the wrong thread , but its once twice three times a maby 

RLLOL

[Pac]

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Here's 11 good reasons why, as bad as Todd Bowles is, Mike Maccagnan is even worse:

 

* Devin Smith

* Lorenzo Mauldin

* Bryce Petty

* Jarvis Harrison

* Christian Hackenberg

* Juston Burris

* Marcus Maye

* ArDarius Stewart

* Chad Hansen

* Jordan Leggett

* Dylan Donahue

 

And here's a few more:

 

* $39 million guaranteed to Darrelle Revis

* $13 million guaranteed to Buster Skrine

* Marcus Gilchrist

* Percy Harvin

* Matt Forte

* Ryan Clady

* Spencer Long

* Trumaine Johnson

looking forward to your tears when Macc keeps his job more than the next 6 games.

[TuscanyTile2]

If this game was in London, the Bills would’ve beaten us easy, like a Sunday morning. 

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Pac said:

looking forward to your tears when Macc keeps his job more than the next 6 games.

They’ll be your tears when we still suck.

[Smashmouth]

I think the talent on this team is a little better than most think, just like it was when Parcells took over for Kotite and Rex took over for Mangini . We need a real HC to evaluate what we have and what better scenario for a HC than 95 mil to spend and a young Franchise QB to mold. We are the LA Rams and with a few smart moves and a good solid draft without Bowels input we could be on our way. We have seen first hand what bad coaching can do with good rosters 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

I think the talent on this team is a little better than most think, just like it was when Parcells took over for Kotite and Rex took over for Mangini . We need a real HC to evaluate what we have and what better scenario for a HC than 95 mil to spend and a young Franchise QB to mold. We are the LA Rams and with a few smart moves and a good solid draft without Bowels input we could be on our way. We have seen first hand what bad coaching can do with good rosters 

Really? I thought we were the LA Rams because @Miss Lonelyhearts Said we have the same plays.

[peebag]

6 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I think the talent on this team is a little better than most think, just like it was when Parcells took over for Kotite and Rex took over for Mangini . We need a real HC to evaluate what we have and what better scenario for a HC than 95 mil to spend and a young Franchise QB to mold. We are the LA Rams and with a few smart moves and a good solid draft without Bowels input we could be on our way. We have seen first hand what bad coaching can do with good rosters 

What talent?  Be specific

[NYs Stepchild]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When you only do some good things some of the time, that's only partially on coaching. 

Robby Anderson has talent.  But ask him to run anything but a go route and he's useless.  He was an awesome UDFA addition, but shouldn't be our WR1.  It's only because our GM sucks at drafting that he is in that role. 

Enunwa is our best WR.  But Macc can't take credit for him.

Kearse is a JAG. 

I never said Mac did anything. I said we have talent that coaching could get a lot more out of than we do. Well I actually said coaching may be able to get something out of them. It's not all about talent. 

I know we have enough talent to beat the Bills. Even a lousy coach should have won that game. You really needed this team to quit on you to lose it.

We cannot continue to allow this to fester. We need to fire Bowles right now. Promote an interim coach that is willing to be aggressive so we can maybe get a jump on developing some of these players.

We can start the search for a real staff in the mean time. 

[Jetsfan80]

looking forward to your tears when Macc keeps his job more than the next 6 games.

What is there to brag about there, exactly?

Of course they’re going to keep him around. We have one of the worst ownership groups in all of pro sports. But that doesn’t make it worth gloating about if you’re right.

[Pac]

19 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

They’ll be your tears when we still suck.

I don't buy all the hysteria.  There's enough talent on this team to be at least a .500 unit.  This is year 2 of a rebuild no matter how many cute jokes people make about that fact.

[pointman]

Maye isn't like the others on that list!

[Jetsfan80]

I don't buy all the hysteria.  There's enough talent on this team to be at least a .500 unit.  This is year 2 of a rebuild no matter how many cute jokes people make about that fact.

 

 

I don’t even need to make a “cute joke” when you and others say stuff like this. It stands on its own.

 

Our GM has been here 4 years. We’re supposedly in year 2 of a rebuild. Simple math suggests he played a hand in causing this “2 year rebuild” to be necessary.

 

This “rebuild” you’re talking about was necessitated because Macc wasted 2 years on Christian Hackenberg, a QB who couldn’t even complete 60 % of his throws against Indiana despite 4 chances at doing so.

 

You don’t get to eat your cake and have it to. You don’t get to say we’re in a rebuild, and excuse Macc for not only the last 2 years, but the 2 before that too.

 

Macc is out of excuses. His program is 23-35 since he arrived, with 0 playoff appearances. Today his roster got beaten soundly by one of the 3 worst teams in the NFL. And you cannot fully blame that on the Head Coach.

 

[ZachEY]

7 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

I've seen them. They have talent. They may not know how to play football but that may or may not be on the coaching/scheme. 

I've seen Robbie out run, and out jump some of the best corners in the league. He does not always run the right routes, and doesn't always run.

I've seen Q run over 5 guys on his way to the end zone. Kearse has had some great games in his career. 

I've seen Crowell run for 200+ yards with our oline. 

These guys have all done some pretty good things. They just don't do them often. That to me is on the coaching. They need  better schemes and flexible schemes that can adjust to a defense... and they need some God damn discipline. 

 

I once hit a 30 ft 3-pointer, nothing but net. The difference between Steph Curry and I is coaching.