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Ralph Vacchiano "While Jets' Todd Bowles is on hot seat, sources suggest Mike Maccagnan is safe"

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1 hour ago, Thai Jet said:

I would let him continue. Let HIM pick the next coach. If you remember he had no say as to Bowles.

That's a complete myth that's been propagated around here lately.  Contrary to recent claims otherwise, Maccagnan was hired first, and while the HC interview process already started, the team even made a distinct point of doing a second round of interviews involving Maccagnan, to give him the opportunity to weigh in.  I have little doubt he was guided in the direction that the team was already leaning, but it's still different than the recent claims that he had no say, or that the hiring happened in a different order than it actually did.  More importantly, Maccagnan has done absolutely nothing to merit not only keeping his job, but being given additional authority to determine years worth of this team's future.

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What a nightmare.  This is the 3rd worst possibility I could think of.  The worst would be to keep both next year followed by the option to fire Mac yet retain Bowels and force him on a new GM. 

This franchise can't get out of its own way.

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30 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

That's a complete myth that's been propagated around here lately.  Contrary to recent claims otherwise, Maccagnan was hired first, and while the HC interview process already started, the team even made a distinct point of doing a second round of interviews involving Maccagnan, to give him the opportunity to weigh in.  I have little doubt he was guided in the direction that the team was already leaning, but it's still different than the recent claims that he had no say, or that the hiring happened in a different order than it actually did.  More importantly, Maccagnan has done absolutely nothing to merit not only keeping his job, but being given additional authority to determine years worth of this team's future.

I'll agree to disagree.

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

 


Why.

What has he done to warrant more time. Did Bowles make those picks? Did Bowles sign those FAs?

His job is literally to build the roster. He’s been horrible at that.

Explain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yes you've told us several times how you would be a better GM than Macc.

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16 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

None of those were really bad moves that I can fault him for. Can’t play hindsight game. I hate the guy but let’s be fair.

Wilkersom-played like an all pro prior and was homegrown talent. We finally didn’t bust in the draft. Had to resign him.

Fitzpatrick-had his career best season and we were in win now mode to a degree and had no QB. We signed him for less that average starter money. He was just supposed to hold the fort while Mac drafted a QB in 2016.

Tru-he has been a disappointment but has also been injured and thrives in an environment with a pass rush since he is good at press man. He is too slow to hold the fort too long. After missing out on Cousins and more importantly O-line, we had to spend the money somehow. It wasn’t a good decisions but not terrible give the circumstance and he was supposed to be great for our scheme,

I hate Mac probably more than anyone here but I’m also fair in my arguments. These 3 moves are at the very bottom of the list of what he has done wrong. He has done SO MUCH wrong in the draft and FA (mainly draft) that you don’t even need these 3 “arguments” to support that Mac is complete trash. I’m basically giving him “benefit of the doubt” with these moves and he is still horrible and on Idzik level. 

 

Here are the problems with these moves:

Muhammad Wilkerson 

Maccagnan, like Idzik before him, wanted to trade Mo. I'm thinking they knew what he was, because a team doesn't dangle such a player in trade for 3 consecutive offseasons if they really want to keep him long term. Idzik I don't know maybe it was because he just didn't want to spend on anybody at all, lol. But it was no secret that we were looking to trade him in 2015 and 2016's draft seasons. The problem is this great dealmaker (as some maddeningly believe Macc to be) overplayed his hand year after year and came away with nothing, which is what overwhelmingly happens most of the time with him. (We're always "inquiring" and only rarely do anything). He screwed up and screwed up until he was left holding his dick in his hand in July with a holding out DE and an unsigned QB and Hackenberg surely not impressing early. Ultimately I think he extended Mo for 3 reasons: (1) he never imagined a player with a poor attitude would play poorly after cashing in, and did the math that over 2 years the cost was about the same; (2) he didn't comprehend how much easier Mo's job was made with Snacks beside him and ignored that about half of Mo's 12 sacks in his glorious career year came when the game was already basically over; and (3) beyond the poor judgment of Mo as a player: he spent so much so poorly, and truly believed he built the Jets into contenders in 2016 with Ryan Fitzpatrick as the missing piece remaining - remember his "competitive rebuild" idiocy - but because of all he spent he had no cap left for Fitz, and restructuring Mo down from his FT of $16m down to $10m cleared enough to re-sign the QB. If it wasn't Mo he'd have restructured others, but extending Mo then seemed to fit like a puzzle piece for him at the time. Because he's stupid and is in over his head.

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Sorry, but this was terrible. A smart GM doesn't worry about what a beat writer or his fool of a HC think, unless he thinks those things himself. He had all season long in 2015 to bang out an extension with Fitz, but he is so afraid of extending someone early, he boxes himself into paying a premium. He did it with Fitz; he did it with Mo/Sheldon; he did it with Winters; he did it with Snacks; he's done it with Enunwa; he's going it with Robby. The only reason the list isn't longer is because of opportunity: he didn't inherit more than a handful of young players whose play showed they're worth extending, and hasn't picked up many of his own thus far. If he wanted to extend Fitz the time to do it was midseason 2015, at worst after Geno failed in his last chance vs the Raiders. What he did was calculate poorly and then in Feb saw Bradford get $18m/year and in March Osweiller $16m per after that, and the opportunities of extending Fitz for his actual value of $6-8m/year faded away. Plus the extended embarrassment of the "holdout" 5 months with a one-party signed offer on the table all that time like a fool. Then after agreeing to a deal, remember the amateurish public leak that Fitz had until the next morning to get into camp to sign it or the deal's off? What a hard-on. There's zero reason to leak that except to try to portray him as someone who plays hardball to cover up that he caved.

He had the PERFECT outs for these 2 scenarios, in a way that the universe rarely opens up for a person. Macc was offered the #1 pick in the 2016 draft on a silver platter. But typically, he inquired and ultimately said no, only to see the Rams happily move up to #1 and the Eagles to #2. He had the #20 pick, a franchise-tagged DE/DT, just lost his NT for nothing until the following season, and had a humiliating, failing negotiating going on in the public with Fitz. He could have used Mo to trade up to give up less in picks than the Rams did, and ultimately backed out over a 3rd round pick (which either became Jenkins or Stewart). If he moves up, not only are we legit contenders already by 2018, there's no 1yr/$12m Fitz contract, there's no 2yr/$37m Mo contract, there isn't 2yrs/$20m spent on Josh McCown, we're only out an ILB and a box safety, but have a top 5 QB, get 2 full NFL seasons extra head start without fan arguments over Christian Hackenberg's potential, top FAs aren't treating us like lepers in 2018, and we still have the 4 high picks used for Darnold. 

The domino effect of this shortsightedness cannot be overstated. 

Trumaine Johnson

I said it at the time: he had to sign someone because every other high priced FA with better options laughed in his face. Johnson was different. At his age this was going to be his final cash-in, and he probably figured by age 30 an expensive corner stood a good chance of getting cut after the guaranteed money ran out no matter where he went. So he followed the highest contract, wherever that would be. What Maccagnan - and frankly 98% of the happy fans here when we signed him - didn't consider; what I kept hammering on about him? He was playing behind a dominant OL that got to passers fast - especially with Donald pressuring in a QB's face - making a corner's job far easier than it'd be in the absence of such pressure, like on the Jets. Then, for all the people cooing over PFF ratings for the likes of Adams, and the temporary #1 rating for Darron Lee after the Detroit game, they rated Johnson as the #68 CB in 2017. I don't think they are the end-all of player ranking, but nobody elite gets such a low ranking from unbiased observers focusing on every play of his. They had him highly ranked in 1 narrow scenario that doesn't apply on every play, but that was enough for some people to call him elite and it was enough for Macc to pay him like he is elite. Well fast-forward to the non-Rams Jets, and we see that he sucks and frankly that he's slow. They are actually ranking him as better this year than last year, when he's on the field. The missed 5 games I write off to a player coasting after getting paid, and he should know that with a weak HC this is hardly surprising. Fans can be excused for this oversight. A GM cannot. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

Gotta disagree. It is NOT similar, totally opposite. . Macc  did NOT pick  Bowles as his HC. Keep Macc. Let him pick the new coach. If it doesn't pan out, fire the coach and execute Macc.

What has Maccagnan done to earn the right to pick his new coach and therefore by allowing him to do so, continue in his role for at least another 3 years?  Seriously?  What has he accomplished after 4 years that screams out give him 3 more years?  

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11 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

Gotta disagree. It is NOT similar, totally opposite. . Macc  did NOT pick  Bowles as his HC. Keep Macc. Let him pick the new coach. If it doesn't pan out, fire the coach and execute Macc.

Idzik did not pick Rex. Macc did not pick Bowles. Explain how that is "totally opposite".

Like I said, the situation is similar, and it won't work out. 

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Again, I wavered on it. I can see both sides of the issue. He has made bad decisions but hasn't totally crapped out. On one hand it might make the job of HC unattractable. On the other hand, peace of mind and the concept of job security might scare away other candidates as well.

I'm 50/50 at this point

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Here are the problems with these moves:

Muhammad Wilkerson 

Maccagnan, like Idzik before him, wanted to trade Mo. I'm thinking they knew what he was, because a team doesn't dangle such a player in trade for 3 consecutive offseasons if they really want to keep him long term. Idzik I don't know maybe it was because he just didn't want to spend on anybody at all, lol. But it was no secret that we were looking to trade him in 2015 and 2016's draft seasons. The problem is this great dealmaker (as some maddeningly believe Macc to be) overplayed his hand year after year and came away with nothing, which is what overwhelmingly happens most of the time with him. (We're always "inquiring" and only rarely do anything). He screwed up and screwed up until he was left holding his dick in his hand in July with a holding out DE and an unsigned QB and Hackenberg surely not impressing early. Ultimately I think he extended Mo for 3 reasons: (1) he never imagined a player with a poor attitude would play poorly after cashing in, and did the math that over 2 years the cost was about the same; (2) he didn't comprehend how much easier Mo's job was made with Snacks beside him and ignored that about half of Mo's 12 sacks in his glorious career year came when the game was already basically over; and (3) beyond the poor judgment of Mo as a player: he spent so much so poorly, and truly believed he built the Jets into contenders in 2016 with Ryan Fitzpatrick as the missing piece remaining - remember his "competitive rebuild" idiocy - but because of all he spent he had no cap left for Fitz, and restructuring Mo down from his FT of $16m down to $10m cleared enough to re-sign the QB. If it wasn't Mo he'd have restructured others, but extending Mo then seemed to fit like a puzzle piece for him at the time. Because he's stupid and is in over his head.

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Sorry, but this was terrible. A smart GM doesn't worry about what a beat writer or his fool of a HC think, unless he thinks those things himself. He had all season long in 2015 to bang out an extension with Fitz, but he is so afraid of extending someone early, he boxes himself into paying a premium. He did it with Fitz; he did it with Mo/Sheldon; he did it with Winters; he did it with Snacks; he's done it with Enunwa; he's going it with Robby. The only reason the list isn't longer is because of opportunity: he didn't inherit more than a handful of young players whose play showed they're worth extending, and hasn't picked up many of his own thus far. If he wanted to extend Fitz the time to do it was midseason 2015, at worst after Geno failed in his last chance vs the Raiders. What he did was calculate poorly and then in Feb saw Bradford get $18m/year and in March Osweiller $16m per after that, and the opportunities of extending Fitz for his actual value of $6-8m/year faded away. Plus the extended embarrassment of the "holdout" 5 months with a one-party signed offer on the table all that time like a fool. Then after agreeing to a deal, remember the amateurish public leak that Fitz had until the next morning to get into camp to sign it or the deal's off? What a hard-on. There's zero reason to leak that except to try to portray him as someone who plays hardball to cover up that he caved.

He had the PERFECT outs for these 2 scenarios, in a way that the universe rarely opens up for a person. Macc was offered the #1 pick in the 2016 draft on a silver platter. But typically, he inquired and ultimately said no, only to see the Rams happily move up to #1 and the Eagles to #2. He had the #20 pick, a franchise-tagged DE/DT, just lost his NT for nothing until the following season, and had a humiliating, failing negotiating going on in the public with Fitz. He could have used Mo to trade up to give up less in picks than the Rams did, and ultimately backed out over a 3rd round pick (which either became Jenkins or Stewart). If he moves up, not only are we legit contenders already by 2018, there's no 1yr/$12m Fitz contract, there's no 2yr/$37m Mo contract, there isn't 2yrs/$20m spent on Josh McCown, we're only out an ILB and a box safety, but have a top 5 QB, get 2 full NFL seasons extra head start without fan arguments over Christian Hackenberg's potential, top FAs aren't treating us like lepers in 2018, and we still have the 4 high picks used for Darnold. 

The domino effect of this shortsightedness cannot be overstated. 

Trumaine Johnson

I said it at the time: he had to sign someone because every other high priced FA with better options laughed in his face. Johnson was different. At his age this was going to be his final cash-in, and he probably figured by age 30 an expensive corner stood a good chance of getting cut after the guaranteed money ran out no matter where he went. So he followed the highest contract, wherever that would be. What Maccagnan - and frankly 98% of the happy fans here when we signed him - didn't consider; what I kept hammering on about him? He was playing behind a dominant OL that got to passers fast - especially with Donald pressuring in a QB's face - making a corner's job far easier than it'd be in the absence of such pressure, like on the Jets. Then, for all the people cooing over PFF ratings for the likes of Adams, and the temporary #1 rating for Darron Lee after the Detroit game, they rated Johnson as the #68 CB in 2017. I don't think they are the end-all of player ranking, but nobody elite gets such a low ranking from unbiased observers focusing on every play of his. They had him highly ranked in 1 narrow scenario that doesn't apply on every play, but that was enough for some people to call him elite and it was enough for Macc to pay him like he is elite. Well fast-forward to the non-Rams Jets, and we see that he sucks and frankly that he's slow. They are actually ranking him as better this year than last year, when he's on the field. The missed 5 games I write off to a player coasting after getting paid, and he should know that with a weak HC this is hardly surprising. Fans can be excused for this oversight. A GM cannot. 

 

 

Well said and I agree but these aren’t his worst moves were my points. GMs have misses, even the good ones. These missed combined with other misses and complete draft meltdowns is what bothers me more. I’m focusing on the bigger problems and although these are large contract players, I could see any NFL level GM making these same mistakes.

I wanted to trade Mo, NOT Fitz and didn’t want Tru due to age and great defense that he was on. I just don’t think Mac should be killed for these 3 moves is all. He should be killed for everything else. 

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11 hours ago, Paradis said:

 


Why.

What has he done to warrant more time. Did Bowles make those picks? Did Bowles sign those FAs?

His job is literally to build the roster. He’s been horrible at that.

Explain.

 

 

10 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

Yes you've told us several times how you would be a better GM than Macc.

 

Haha way to avoid the question.  You've got nothing.  No valid reason to support Mike Maccagnan.  Yet you do, and want to give him 3 more years AND the ability to pick the HC.  Ridiculous. 

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10 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

I'll agree to disagree.

Agree to disagree on what exactly?  You can't simply "disagree" about points of fact, and it is quite literally a matter of fact that Maccagnan was both hired before Bowles and involved in the interviewing of him.  I have little doubt that the final say was not his, but the reality is still different than the narrative some have recently been trying to present around here.

If you simply mean disagreeing about whether Maccagnan has earned the right to not only stick around, but dictate years more of this team's future, that's certainly your prerogative, but I would be very curious to hear what exactly you think he's done to deserve that.

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On 11/13/2018 at 10:01 PM, Untouchable said:

Only way I’d be okay with keeping Macc is if he personally guaranteed me that upgrading the offense is his highest priority for the foreseeable future.

I’m talking Le’Veon Bell and Tyrell Williams in FA, a LT like Jonah Williams in the 1st round, etc.

That’s the kind of sh*t that needs to happen come March/April if you want to put Darnold in position to develop into a Top 10 QB and score more than 12–16 points a game moving forward. You have the resources, so go do it.

He also better be able to attract a proven coach like Mike Shanahan or John Harbaugh.

Agree the trend of first time HC (since parcels!!!) has failed miserably time for a proven asset 

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Yes you've told us several times how you would be a better GM than Macc.

 

I asked you a question. As have others.

 

What. Has. He. Done.

 

Why should we give him more time? What does Bowles have to do with Macc’s roster management?

 

Answer the question.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Just now, Paradis said:

 


Fck off mate, I asked you a question. As have others.

What. Has. He. Done.

Why should we give him more time? What does Bowles have to do with Macc’s roster management?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This is my thing with Macc:

This year we have seen the defense be wildly inconsistent. They've had good performances and bad performances. The fact that they have good performances at all suggests that there is talent on this team. Darron Lee has taken a step forward, Jamal Adams has become one of the best safeties in the NFL. OUr pass rush has been surprisingly not awful.

If you look at Macc's drafts, of the 7 hits he has gotten. 5 of them have been on defense. Only Shell and Edwards aren't. 

He signed Johnson (bust) and Williamson (not a bust). 

So he seems average in that regard.

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1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This is my thing with Macc:

This year we have seen the defense be wildly inconsistent. They've had good performances and bad performances. The fact that they have good performances at all suggests that there is talent on this team. Darron Lee has taken a step forward, Jamal Adams has become one of the best safeties in the NFL. OUr pass rush has been surprisingly not awful.

If you look at Macc's drafts, of the 7 hits he has gotten. 5 of them have been on defense. Only Shell and Edwards aren't. 

He signed Johnson (bust) and Williamson (not a bust). 

So he seems average in that regard.

Lol.....average?  Average?   Sorry, but Maccagnan has been well below average.  Ignoring the offense and drafting a few defensive players isn’t an average performance.  

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Just now, sec101row23 said:

Lol.....average?  Average?   Sorry, but Maccagnan has been well below average.  Ignoring the offense and drafting a few defensive players isn’t an average performance.  

I said in that regard. I didn't get to the offense. My question with the offense is would an offensive minded coach influence him to draft offense? 

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On 11/13/2018 at 9:03 AM, KINGDIRK said:

“He might face a playoffs-or-else ultimatum next season”

So ya gonna let a GM who has a 2019 playoffs or bust ultimatum spend $100m of cap space. This would be so classic Jets - it’s not even funny.

The Johnson’s are setting us up to be left holding the bag.

again.....

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8 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This is my thing with Macc:

This year we have seen the defense be wildly inconsistent. They've had good performances and bad performances. The fact that they have good performances at all suggests that there is talent on this team. Darron Lee has taken a step forward, Jamal Adams has become one of the best safeties in the NFL. OUr pass rush has been surprisingly not awful.

If you look at Macc's drafts, of the 7 hits he has gotten. 5 of them have been on defense. Only Shell and Edwards aren't. 

He signed Johnson (bust) and Williamson (not a bust). 

So he seems average in that regard.

How can you call this clown average in any way. We are four years into his tenure and we don't have one good offensive lineman, no offensive playmakers, no one to rush the passer, and no corners worth a damn. You seriously could have just gone BPA on any of the major draft websites and done a much better job than this jackass has done.

I really don't think its a stretch at all to say that any number of fans on this site could and would do a better job as GM than Maccagnan. If this idiot ownership can't see that he is terrible at his job there is no hope for this franchise. We as fans got screwed big time when Johnson bought this team.

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12 hours ago, SpartanJet said:

What a nightmare.  This is the 3rd worst possibility I could think of.  The worst would be to keep both next year followed by the option to fire Mac yet retain Bowels and force him on a new GM. 

This franchise can't get out of its own way.

From the other side of the lens, keeping Macc and firing Bowles is the 2nd best options. Best option being firing both. Just busting your chops a bit.

Macc needs to go. 

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9 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I said in that regard. I didn't get to the offense. My question with the offense is would an offensive minded coach influence him to draft offense? 

It shouldn’t f-ing matter what the head coach is influencing.  If he allowed Bowles to influence him like that, then that’s another reason to jettison him away.  

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3 minutes ago, Pennington said:

How can you call this clown average in any way. We are four years into his tenure and we don't have one good offensive lineman, no offensive playmakers, no one to rush the passer, and no corners worth a damn. You seriously could have just gone BPA on any of the major draft websites and done a much better job than this jackass has done.

I really don't think its a stretch at all to say that any number of fans on this site could and would do a better job as GM than Maccagnan. If this idiot ownership can't see that he is terrible at his job there is no hope for this franchise. We as fans got screwed big time when Johnson bought this team.

I disagree with those two to an extent. We have servicable-mediocre pass rushers and corners. We dont have high end pass rushers and corners.

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5 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

i'm sorry, wut??

If you mean the fans, what would it cost the fans? If you mean going to games. dont go. Simple answer

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4 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

It shouldn’t f-ing matter what the head coach is influencing.  If he allowed Bowles to influence him like that, then that’s another reason to jettison him away.  

Maybe so but it;s interesting that most of Maccagnan's draft his have been on defense

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

Agree the trend of first time HC (since parcels!!!) has failed miserably time for a proven asset 

Mike Shanahan.

The Jets would be respectable immediately and this foolishness of unaccountable HCs and GMs would cease...

Also the sub par assistants would be gone as well. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Pennington said:

How can you call this clown average in any way. We are four years into his tenure and we don't have one good offensive lineman, no offensive playmakers, no one to rush the passer, and no corners worth a damn. You seriously could have just gone BPA on any of the major draft websites and done a much better job than this jackass has done.

I really don't think its a stretch at all to say that any number of fans on this site could and would do a better job as GM than Maccagnan. 

Thank you...

Jets fans are often so beaten down that we will accept anything!!!

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7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mike Shanahan.

The Jets would be respectable immediately and this foolishness of unaccountable HCs and GMs would cease...

Also the sub par assistants would be gone as well. 

 

i actually lived in maryland during shanahan's run in DC & just do to proximity, i was pretty up to speed with his tenure & came away unimpressed..

granted, the slow moving train wreck that was robert griffin had to have been challenging..

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50 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I said in that regard. I didn't get to the offense. My question with the offense is would an offensive minded coach influence him to draft offense? 

I think that's a legit point.

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3 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Idzik did not pick Rex. Macc did not pick Bowles. Explain how that is "totally opposite".

Like I said, the situation is similar, and it won't work out. 

In your original post you mentioned Tannenbaum NOT Idzik. My point is/was firing the coach (Bowles)and keeping the GM (Macc) is opposite of firing the GM (Tannenbaum) and keeping the coach (Rex) . The former is fairly normal the later is very rare.

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3 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

In your original post you mentioned Tannenbaum NOT Idzik. My point is/was firing the coach (Bowles)and keeping the GM (Macc) is opposite of firing the GM (Tannenbaum) and keeping the coach (Rex) . The former is fairly normal the later is very rare.

My original post:

Firing Bowles and keeping Macc is similar to firing Tannenbaum while keeping Rex and foisting him on Idzik. We need to completely clean house and hire a GM who gets to pick his own head coach. Hold overs from previous regimes are an awful idea. 

***

I said similar, and not the same. When the Jets hired Idzik, it came with a lame duck coach. When we hire a new head coach in 2018 , we will likely have a lame duck GM. The future GM will likely be put in a situation where the HC will come with the job. The cycle continues, and the results would be the same. The only way to end the cycle is to fire the GM and head coach together.

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5 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mike Shanahan.

The Jets would be respectable immediately and this foolishness of unaccountable HCs and GMs would cease...

Also the sub par assistants would be gone as well. 

 

I like it Hell I’d take Jeff fisher at this point that’s how bad it is

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7 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

My original post:

Firing Bowles and keeping Macc is similar to firing Tannenbaum while keeping Rex and foisting him on Idzik. We need to completely clean house and hire a GM who gets to pick his own head coach. Hold overs from previous regimes are an awful idea. 

***

I said similar, and not the same. When the Jets hired Idzik, it came with a lame duck coach. When we hire a new head coach in 2018 , we will likely have a lame duck GM. The future GM will likely be put in a situation where the HC will come with the job. The cycle continues, and the results would be the same. The only way to end the cycle is to fire the GM and head coach together.

Errrr didn't we just do that when our GM and coach were fired and we brought in Bowles and Macc together ? How'd THAT work out ?  Just askin.....

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7 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

Errrr didn't we just do that when our GM and coach were fired and we brought in Bowles and Macc together ? How'd THAT work out ?  Just askin.....

Someone thought that hiring a coach first, and then a GM was a good idea.

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