Admit You Were Dead Wrong

[j4jets]

Mark “Bankrupt” Brunell turned Sanchez into Buttfumble. Or do we blame that on Geno smith?

[Scott Dierking]

16 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Unless he was accounting for 8% of the entire team’s salary cap as a backup QB nobody wanted to sign last off season. Kinda like how nobody in the league wanted Fitzpatrick but a Macc thought he was worth $12 mil. The guy needs to go and I’m not talking about just Macc. 

As I see it, The Jets currently have $16m of cap space. What signing did McCown prohibit that needed $26m?

[Scott Dierking]

8 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Mark “Bankrupt” Brunell turned Sanchez into Buttfumble. Or do we blame that on Geno smith?

I would say blame it on Sanchez.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

This may be a trite point, and I nor we will never know, but the Colts may have tried to hold the Jets up for more, knowing they had no fall back plan. Possibly not, but maybe. All in all, not a great spot to be in. And here we are.

Sure, we could speculate that type of stuff all day long but that doesnt really change the overall approach.  Mac was taking a QB this season no matter what.  Whether it was trading with the Browns, Giants, Colts, Broncos OR staying put at #6...the Jets were going to be taking a QB in this draft after passing on 2 studs last year.  He would have been burned at the stake otherwise.  Therefore, this entire offseason should have been about supporting that rookie QB and Mac failed in epic fashion.

[dbatesman]

40 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The $10 million dollar argument just doesn't make sense. 

Spending money on McCown literally did not prevent the Jets from making any other move. We didn't miss out on Andrew Norwell or Allen Robinson because we paid a premium to keep our backup QB. We missed out on those guys because the team sucks and they didn't want to come to a bad team in a brutal media market with the most negative fans in the league. We couldn't give our money away.

This (seems obvious but I'll point it out) isn't a defense of Big Mac. The team sucks because he sucks. But this specific move is fine and isn't in any way a "bad move." In fact, at this point in the season it's one of the only moves this offesason that still makes sense looking back.

If we're gonna start "I told you so" threads it should be by people who thought making Trumaine Johnson the 2nd highest paid CB in the league was a mistake. Because he SUCKS and it was and unlike McCown we are stuck trotting him out there for the foreseeable future.

I don't disagree with any of this except the first sentence. Giving $10 million to Josh McCown isn't a problem because it cost us other players (it didn't); it's a problem because it's the latest and most glaring example of this group's terminal inability to properly assess value. He sh*t the bed against a bottom-three opponent on Sunday, so he's not a reliable backup, and Darnold leads the league in interceptions, so his vaunted mentoring skills aren't exactly blowing up my skirt either, and yet here we are, with McCown the highest-paid offensive player on the roster.. As others have said, none of those things are anywhere near the biggest problem with this team, but they're indicative of a front office and coaching staff who are in completely over their heads. Anyone who would give Josh McCown $10 million in the year of our Lord 2018 is not a person who can be trusted to run an NFL franchise.

It's also an irksome issue for me because it's maybe the clearest current example of the JN hivemind's willingness to ignore process and focus only on outcome, and to collectively rage-sh*t themselveswhen anyone argues otherwise. But that's my baggage.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't disagree with any of this except the first sentence. Giving $10 million to Josh McCown isn't a problem because it cost us other players (it didn't); it's a problem because it's the latest and most glaring example of this group's terminal inability to properly assess value. He sh*t the bed against a bottom-three opponent on Sunday, so he's not a reliable backup, and Darnold leads the league in interceptions, so his vaunted mentoring skills aren't exactly blowing up my skirt either. As others have said, neither of those things are anywhere near the biggest problem with this team, but they're indicative of a front office and coaching staff who are in completely over their heads. It's also an irksome issue for me because it's maybe the clearest current example of the JN hivemind's willingness to ignore process and focus only on outcome, and to have a collective stroke when anyone argues otherwise.

edit: why dont gif's work anymore?  lol  I tried like 7 different clapping gifs

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't disagree with any of this except the first sentence. Giving $10 million to Josh McCown isn't a problem because it cost us other players (it didn't); it's a problem because it's the latest and most glaring example of this group's terminal inability to properly assess value. He sh*t the bed against a bottom-three opponent on Sunday, so he's not a reliable backup, and Darnold leads the league in interceptions, so his vaunted mentoring skills aren't exactly blowing up my skirt either, and yet here we are, with McCown the highest-paid offensive player on the roster.. As others have said, none of those things are anywhere near the biggest problem with this team, but they're indicative of a front office and coaching staff who are in completely over their heads. Anyone who would give Josh McCown $10 million in the year of our Lord 2018 is not a person who can be trusted to run an NFL franchise.

It's also an irksome issue for me because it's maybe the clearest current example of the JN hivemind's willingness to ignore process and focus only on outcome, and to collectively rage-sh*t themselveswhen anyone argues otherwise. But that's my baggage.

The assertion that the off-season approach as a whole is a failure is certainly correct.

I would say that the assertion that signing Josh McCown alone is not where the failure stems. Trite difference, but a difference nonetheless.

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

edit: why dont gif's work anymore?  lol  I tried like 7 different clapping gifs

Constructive eviction of RJF?

[More Cowbell]

35 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

By all means, please justify McCown’s salary by listing more valuable players we didn’t sign.

I just read this three times and I am still not sure what you are asking? Are you saying there were players we could have signed and did not because we signed McCown?

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

He was worth the full cost just from that gif of him and darnold simutanously combing their fingers through their hair. In all honesty though his signing is what gave us the flexability to trade teddy away so I am alright with it, not our best signing but I am not upset with it either

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, Losmeister said:

about signing McClown and how good he'd be for Sam and the Jets...

come on, you wankers, eat some crow...     defending this dreck is bad enough...  at least have the cojones to admit you didnt know wtf you were talking about..
 

theres at least 50 of you mokes...    you should all be dunking your head in the nearest unflushed toilet

 

OMG. What is hard about not calling people out?

[More Cowbell]

40 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Did you know that had we not signed McCown, we would’ve had 10 extra mile next year? Of course not. And do you know that nobody was paying McCown anywhere near the 10mil we paid? Of course not. And did you know that one legged Teddy was a million times better and cheaper than McCown, yet we traded away Teddy cuz Macc wanted to draft another bust in the 3rd round? Of course not. 

McCown isn’t the problem, however. He’s part of it. He didn’t pay himself all that salary. Macc did. Macc is the issue here. 

If his salary comes off the books after this year which it will, how would we have 10 extra mill? 

When did unused cap money start to rollover into the next seasons cap?

[JustInFudge]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

edit: why dont gif's work anymore?  lol  I tried like 7 different clapping gifs

 

14 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

see gif's dont work anymore and I'm not sure how to express myself appropriately. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

see gif's dont work anymore and I'm not sure how to express myself appropriately. 

Ican'texpressmyselfinwords.gif 

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The $10 million dollar argument just doesn't make sense. 

Spending money on McCown literally did not prevent the Jets from making any other move. We didn't miss out on Andrew Norwell or Allen Robinson because we paid a premium to keep our backup QB. We missed out on those guys because the team sucks and they didn't want to come to a bad team in a brutal media market with the most negative fans in the league. We couldn't give our money away.

This (seems obvious but I'll point it out) isn't a defense of Big Mac. The team sucks because he sucks. But this specific move is fine and isn't in any way a "bad move." In fact, at this point in the season it's one of the only moves this offesason that still makes sense looking back.

If we're gonna start "I told you so" threads it should be by people who thought making Trumaine Johnson the 2nd highest paid CB in the league was a mistake. Because he SUCKS and it was and unlike McCown we are stuck trotting him out there for the foreseeable future.

I don't think its so much that he sucks , its just that he looked so much better on a Rams team that could actually generate a pass rush and allowed him to play man coverage.

If the Jets ever improve the pass rush either by scheme or by adding talent , Johnson will look just fine at CB.

[rangerous]

it's not signing mccown.  it's signing him for 10 million when there wasn't any other team in the running.  the mentoring thing isway overblown but mccown has apparently been a good influence on young darnold in many ways.  besides if one thinks signing mccown is the main thing wrong with this team i've got a couple of bridges to sell them.

[UntouchableCrew]

32 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't disagree with any of this except the first sentence. Giving $10 million to Josh McCown isn't a problem because it cost us other players (it didn't); it's a problem because it's the latest and most glaring example of this group's terminal inability to properly assess value. He sh*t the bed against a bottom-three opponent on Sunday, so he's not a reliable backup, and Darnold leads the league in interceptions, so his vaunted mentoring skills aren't exactly blowing up my skirt either, and yet here we are, with McCown the highest-paid offensive player on the roster.. As others have said, none of those things are anywhere near the biggest problem with this team, but they're indicative of a front office and coaching staff who are in completely over their heads. Anyone who would give Josh McCown $10 million in the year of our Lord 2018 is not a person who can be trusted to run an NFL franchise.

It's also an irksome issue for me because it's maybe the clearest current example of the JN hivemind's willingness to ignore process and focus only on outcome, and to collectively rage-sh*t themselveswhen anyone argues otherwise. But that's my baggage.

If the Bills were willing to pay McCown $8 million and we had to pay him $10 to keep him versus paying AJ McCarron $5 million did we really make a mistake? I dunno. Obviously it's an easy time to kill the move because he just made his likely only start of the season and totally sucked (not exactly shocking, he's 40 and has barely taken snaps in a year.) But I think the idea that there's been no benefit to having McCown in the QB room with Darnold as opposed to McCarron (or a similar backup) is misguided.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

it's not signing mccown.  it's signing him for 10 million when there wasn't any other team in the running.  the mentoring thing isway overblown but mccown has apparently been a good influence on young darnold in many ways.  besides if one thinks signing mccown is the main thing wrong with this team i've got a couple of bridges to sell them.

The Bills were looking to sign him. That's why we paid him $10 million.

[UntouchableCrew]

6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I don't think its so much that he sucks , its just that he looked so much better on a Rams team that could actually generate a pass rush and allowed him to play man coverage.

If the Jets ever improve the pass rush either by scheme or by adding talent , Johnson will look just fine at CB.

I dunno. He's looked a lot like late-era Revis to me. Plays 15 yards off then gets smoked deep anyway. Take a look at the Bills first play from scrimmage for a sample.

[jetsons]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No fanbase in America cares more about who the backup QB is than Jets fans. 

Kellen Clemens.  Brett Ratliff.  Tim Tebow.  Greg McElroy.  Matt Simms.  Bryce Petty.  Josh McCown. 

It never ends. 

You forgot Matt Robinson & Pat Ryan?

[munchmemory]

8 minutes ago, jetsons said:

You forgot Matt Robinson & Pat Ryan?

And let's not omit cutie-boy Brooks Bollinger.

[56mehl56]

27 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I dunno. He's looked a lot like late-era Revis to me. Plays 15 yards off then gets smoked deep anyway. Take a look at the Bills first play from scrimmage for a sample.

Yes another Jet blitz that failed to get to the QB , coupled with a DB play 10 -15 yards off in coverage.  Watch other teams blitz and see that they are bumping the wr's at the LOS .I think Bart Scott mentioned that in almost every game the first defensive play the Jets have blitzed. Opposing coaches pick up these tendencies on film . Johnson hasn't played worth his contract but the defensive scheme is doing him no favors as well.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yes another Jet blitz that failed to get to the QB , coupled with a DB play 10 -15 yards off in coverage.  Watch other teams blitz and see that they are bumping the wr's at the LOS .I think Bart Scott mentioned that in almost every game the first defensive play the Jets have blitzed. Opposing coaches pick up these tendencies on film . Johnson hasn't played worth his contract but the defensive scheme is doing him no favors as well.

I guess my point is that playing 15 yards of the LOS is done so that even if the blitz doesn't get home you don't give up the big play. But he got smoked and gave up the big play anyway.

It's not like this is a one game thing. He has been the worst player in the secondary in almost every game he's played in this year.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

I don't disagree with any of this except the first sentence. Giving $10 million to Josh McCown isn't a problem because it cost us other players (it didn't); it's a problem because it's the latest and most glaring example of this group's terminal inability to properly assess value. He sh*t the bed against a bottom-three opponent on Sunday, so he's not a reliable backup, and Darnold leads the league in interceptions, so his vaunted mentoring skills aren't exactly blowing up my skirt either, and yet here we are, with McCown the highest-paid offensive player on the roster.. As others have said, none of those things are anywhere near the biggest problem with this team, but they're indicative of a front office and coaching staff who are in completely over their heads. Anyone who would give Josh McCown $10 million in the year of our Lord 2018 is not a person who can be trusted to run an NFL franchise.

It's also an irksome issue for me because it's maybe the clearest current example of the JN hivemind's willingness to ignore process and focus only on outcome, and to collectively rage-sh*t themselveswhen anyone argues otherwise. But that's my baggage.

To build on the process talk here vs outcomes: it’s not something little about how and when Josh got 10 million. 

Plan A was cousins, but once that went south, Plan B wasn’t go after building an offensive line or wide receivers to help transition our new qb, who we did not know the identity of (Not even a sniff of interest at Andrew Norwell for instance). Plan B was ten million for Mccown and then Trumaine Johnson. Hmmm let’s round it out with Spencer Long. Like wtf? Teddy Bridgewater was a good move, credit to him for that. But the Jets really feel like they didn’t have much of a backup plan and it showed in the dearth of new talent we brought in. 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I just read this three times and I am still not sure what you are asking? Are you saying there were players we could have signed and did not because we signed McCown?

No, I am most emphatically not saying that. I said "giving McCown $10 million was dumb." You said "who should we have given it to instead?" I said "Allen Robinson." You said "lol what about Cooks and Graham," which seemed weird at the time and if anything seems weirder now. Frankly, I've completely lost the thread on what we're even arguing about here.

[Patriot Killa]

Way to flex on such a meaningless topic in the midst of a 3-13 season.

yes.

we are all so so sorry for being wrong on josh McCown’s mentoring ability instead of the other 789 problems that plague this franchise. Ya know, there isn’t a time I haven’t sat back and said. “We’d sure be 7-3 if McCown wouldn’t of been on the roster.”

 

 

bravo, bud.

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

No, I am most emphatically not saying that. I said "giving McCown $10 million was dumb." You said "who should we have given it to instead?" I said "Allen Robinson." You said "lol what about Cooks and Graham," which seemed weird at the time and if anything seems weirder now. Frankly, I've completely lost the thread on what we're even arguing about here.

To be accurate, Robinson's numbers this year (with the exception of this past week -His first 100 yard game) have been pedestrian. Not a difference making upgrade over what Enunwa and Anderson have provided the Jets this year.

Knowing the general mood of this audience (and it is fair), if he put those numbers up for the Jets this year, Macc would have been widely panned as spending money unwisely. Just calling a spade a spade.

 

[Losmeister]

18 butt fumbles= 18 stout defenders of a siply bad journeyman backup.

you guys should be on the coaching staff.

you all wanted to believe that 5 win season was actually something good. that this lifelong scrub deserved 10 million to carry darnolds

gym bag...

gumby could be sams mentor

you guys are actually severely limited when it comes to talking about football... wow...  

 

 

 

[Losmeister]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I dunno. He's looked a lot like late-era Revis to me. Plays 15 yards off then gets smoked deep anyway. Take a look at the Bills first play from scrimmage for a sample.

all day. good post.

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

18 butt fumbles= 18 stout defenders of a siply bad journeyman backup.

you guys should be on the coaching staff.

you all wanted to believe that 5 win season was actually something good. that this lifelong scrub deserved 10 million to carry darnolds

gym bag...

gumby could be sams mentor

you guys are actually severely limited when it comes to talking about football... wow...  

 

 

 

This site is filled with a bunch of "you guys". 

[bitonti]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

 

Bitching about Josh McCown functioning as de facto QB coach (a long with Bates)  

LOL.

1

Coaches get paid alot less than 10 million dollars per year 

the cheapest Head coaches like Bowles make 4

a really amazing QB coach would cost like a mil max and doesn't count against the cap 

Josh McCown as QB coach in uniform for 10 mil doesn't make sense on any level 

and btw if we are evaluating McCown and Bates, their offense of WR screens or whatever is bad. as coaches they should be fired. 

[Losmeister]

8 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Well this thread belongs in the idiotic hall of fame. What did anyone expect from a 38 y/o journeyman QB who hasn't take a snap since August 9?

So we all get to be called British ridicule names because of this? LOL

 

I think the only real "wanker" here is the OP TBH.

why do you pay someone 10 mill and simultaneoulsy expect nuthing? thats the friggin point, zed.

you all BOUGHT that false narrative. are you a fan of sport or a fan of spin? do you want your team to succedd or do you wanna 5 win season be spun into and indication of  progress?? 

[Pac]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

why do you pay someone 10 mill and simultaneoulsy expect nuthing? thats the friggin point, zed.

you all BOUGHT that false narrative. are you a fan of sport or a fan of spin? do you want your team to succedd or do you wanna 5 win season be spun into and indication of  progress?? 

you'll have better luck heading to a Cardinals board and replacing McCown with Bradford.  Don't forget to double the salary and scream phrases like "he's not even on a team" in all CAPS with multiple exclamation points.

 

[j4jets]

7 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

As I see it, The Jets currently have $16m of cap space. What signing did McCown prohibit that needed $26m?

With the left over cap getting moved forward, it’s not about just one off season anymore. Just because we have 16 mil in space doesn’t mean we could’ve picked up a special teamer for $26 mil without being held accountable for the signing...even if you win a SB. 

[GREENBEAN]

Nope, sorry. It’s not the #1 problem, and also it didn’t take up all of our cap space, so #actually it’s Good

My thoughts on this whole situation is “who cares?”
Josh has been very helpful to Sam. That’s undeniable but it is it worth $10 mil on a year when we have boat loads of unspent cap space? Who cares?

Can josh come in and play well in sams absense in a year we’re not going to do anything? Who cares?

I can go on but really... who cares?


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