FIRE MACCAGNAN!!!!!!!

[Creepy Lurker]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Macc enjoying his coffee at 1 Jets Drive.

 

You saw the pic that I made using this right?

[Warfish]

On 12/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

But are there more coffee cups on the desk than wins the last three years......

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Warfish said:

But are there more coffee cups on the desk than wins the last three years......

It's close.  I count 12 cups.  We've accumulated 14 wins.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Creepy Lurker said:

You saw the pic that I made using this right?

Probably, but there have been so many dandies in this thread I can't remember!

[Creepy Lurker]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Probably, but there have been so many dandies in this thread I can't remember!

[playtowinthegame]

Out Christmas shopping with girlfriend, and bought a Gingerbread Latte at Starbucks. It sucked. Should have stuck with the Peppermint Mocha. 

[joewilly12]

20 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Out Christmas shopping with girlfriend, and bought a Gingerbread Latte at Starbucks. It sucked. Should have stuck with the Peppermint Mocha. 

Do they still mark your cup with a name on it idea for everyone FIRE MACC

[playtowinthegame]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Do they still mark your cup with a name on it idea for everyone FIRE MACC

Yes they do. I tell them my name is Mike Hunt. 

[joewilly12]

38 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Yes they do. I tell them my name is Mike Hunt. 

Nooooooo  you tell them FIRE MACC!!!!!

[Mavericknyc1980]

I think Ciminis article today were there is no guarantees he will be back is starting to show he might not be that safe

[playtowinthegame]

Dissecting the most inexcusable playoff drought in Jets history

RICH CIMINI

ESPN Staff Writer

8:00 AM ET8 Minute Read

FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- Tickets on the secondary market are selling for as low at $10, which means a beer at the game will cost as much as the price of admission. The nearby shopping malls will generate more traffic than MetLife Stadium, which figures to be half-empty for the New York Jets and Houston Texans on Saturday afternoon. When the game is over, a guy in a Santa suit will be screaming obscenities at coach Todd Bowles as he walks off the field -- and Santa won't be alone. He will be joined by plenty of angry elves.

Welcome to another meaningless December for the Jets. Ho, ho, ho.

Mathematically eliminated last week, the Jets' postseason drought is up to eight years, trailing only that of the Cleveland Browns (15) and Tampa Bay Buccaneers(10) among active streaks. It's tied for the second-longest drought in Jets history, but let's be perfectly clear:

This one is the worst.

Unlike the previous dry spells, this is happening in the free-agency/salary-cap era, which means there's no excuse to stink year after year. There was an 11-year drought from 1970 to '80 (a long, post-Super Bowl III hangover) and an eight-year clunker from 1960 to '67 (the first years of the franchise), but it was hard to rebuild in those days because the only real source of talent was the draft. The current league is built for parity, giving wayward franchises a chance to get well soon.

 

Not the Jets.

No player on the current roster has experienced a Jets playoff game. Wide receiver Quincy Enunwa, one of the longest-tenured players, said he has "an idea" of what a significant December game feels like (a reference to the ill-fated playoff run in 2015). Mostly, he lives vicariously through fellow receiver Jermaine Kearse, who shares stories of his Super Bowl championship with the Seattle Seahawks.

The Jets have been out of the postseason for so long that it feels like the rest of the league has passed them by. It's like they're still talking on flip phones and have no idea what they're missing.

"There has to be change," Enunwa said. "Without change, you can't have change. Things have to change mentally. There has to be a different mentality, just more discipline. I don't think it's the talent at all. A lot of guys around the league respect us as a team because they see the talent, but we do dumb stuff. That's what we have to change."

A familiar refrain.

Nearly eight years ago, Rex Ryan guaranteed a Super Bowl for the Jets. It was an outrageous thing to say -- for anycoach -- but he wasn't a mad man howling at the moon. After all, the Jets had reached the AFC Championship Game in back-to-back seasons in 2009 and 2010. They were good enough to talk a little smack.

Since Ryan's moment of bluster, the closest they've come to a Lombardi is the Vince Lombardi service area on the New Jersey Turnpike, located in the shadow of the stadium. Maybe each franchise is permitted only one bold guarantee; the Jets used theirs in 1969 (see: Joe Namath).

"We were close, and we made a run at it by signing older players," said Ryan, who presided over the first four years of the drought. "We were all-in, and it never worked out."

Under two coaches and three general managers, the Jets are 50-75 since the playoff drought started -- a .400 win percentage (30th in the NFL) and a mind-blowing 47 games behind the New England Patriots.

The Jets are in a constant state of rebuilding -- 2013, 2014, 2017 and 2018 -- unable to create any traction. The current regime, led by general manager Mike Maccagnan and coach Todd Bowles, turned over the roster it inherited, but the results haven't improved. Only seven players in uniform Sunday were holdovers from the first Maccagnan-Bowles roster in 2015.

And they're still tied for last place.

"I'm craving that playoff vibe," said special-teams standout Rontez Miles, who arrived in 2013. "There's a big void. I want to know what that feels like."

Those back-to-back appearances in the AFC Championship Game feel like a lifetime ago. Despite a crushing loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers on Jan. 23, 2011, the Jets seemed to have it figured out. They had a terrific defense, a young quarterback in Mark Sanchez and a larger-than-life coach in Ryan, who already had four playoff wins on his résumé.

Since then, they've been doomed by a combination of bad personnel decisions, suspect coaching and bad luck. This is their third straight losing season, something they hadn't done since 1994-96 under Pete Carroll and Rich Kotite.

At 4-9, Bowles is on the verge of becoming only the sixth NFL coach since 2000 to lose at least 10 games in three straight seasons, according to ESPN Stats & Information. His team isn't as inept as the Kotite Jets, who provided regular fodder for David Letterman's top-10 lists, but you wonder if the trend will be reversed any time soon.

Oh, they almost did it in 2015 -- 10-6, no playoffs -- but it turned out to be a one-year mirage. Unfortunately, it took Maccagnan another year to recognize that, triggering a free fall that has resulted in the team's current plight. The Jets are two years into a total reboot.

"I'm sorry to say it, but our organization is bad," said a former Jets player, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "[We're] the Browns of the Northeast. It'll be a long time before they win. The folks they have don't care. They're protecting each other from getting fired and bulls--- the owner when he shows up. They need an overhaul. They're content with losing."

"They don't fit the mentality of the fan base," a former Jets staffer said of the current leadership. "Show some guts, show some balls. There's none of that. They need to hire someone who can identify with the fan base."

It takes a seminal moment to turn around a franchise. For the Jets of yesteryear, it was two watershed drafts: 1965 (hello, Broadway Joe) and 1977 (Marvin Powell, Wesley Walker and Joe Klecko). They didn't need a draft to conquer the Kotite malaise; they hired Bill Parcells, who brought instant credibility to the franchise.

When will the current Jets have that game-changing moment? What will it be? The hiring of a superstar coach? (Unlikely. Who's out there?) The blossoming of Sam Darnold? They certainly hope so. When they drafted Darnold in April, CEO Christopher Johnson called it a turning point in the franchise's history. They were ga-ga over Sam, but they quickly realized that Sam needs a better supporting cast. Does that mean better players or better coaching?

"I hate the idea that it has to be one or the other," Enunwa said. "Sometimes it's a combination of everything. Guys have to start being smarter. It doesn't matter who you bring in [to coach]. Guys have to start playing smarter football."

The franchise has slipped into a funk and desperately needs that "wow" moment. Once again, the franchise has reached a crossroad. This is the low point of the Woody Johnson era, the first time in his 19-year ownership that the Jets have endured three straight clunkers. The fans are waiting to see how Johnson and his younger brother, Christopher, fix this. This generation has suffered enough.

"They're operating with a losing plan," a longtime NFC personnel executive said. "Woody makes bad hire after bad hire. It's hard for some owners. They're a product of who they listen to."

How did it go so badly? There are many reasons, but here are three:

Questionable decisions by ownership:You know what they say in sports: It starts at the top. Johnson has proven that he is willing to spend money to win, but the irony of the NFL -- a multi-billion-dollar industry -- is that it takes more than money to succeed. It takes vision and leadership, hiring the right people. Johnson has failed in that area.

In pairing Bowles and Maccagnan, he made the same mistake he made in 2013, when he hired John Idzik to be Ryan's general manager: In each case, he took two strangers and asked them to coexist. The Idzik-Ryan pairing was toxic. Maccagnan and Bowles have a professional relationship, but cracks have formed amid the losing. Johnson is a bad matchmaker.

Poor drafting: Three GMs -- Mike Tannenbaum, Idzik and Maccagnan -- have contributed to the malaise. Since the Darrelle Revis draft in 2007, only one Jets draft pick has made the Pro Bowl: defensive end Muhammad Wilkerson. (Sheldon Richardson and Leonard Williams made it as injury replacements.) Only three players from the 2012, 2014 and 2015 drafts are starting in the league: Demario Davis(New Orleans Saints), Enunwa and Williams.

The heart of the team at this point should be players from the 2013-15 drafts, but only three of the 25 picks are contributing to the Jets: Williams, Enunwa and Brian Winters. To compensate for the draft misses, the Jets have had to overpay in free agency, often reaching for players who turned into one-and-done situations. It's a vicious cycle that won't stop until they start drafting better.

Quarterback/offensive follies: Bowles and Ryan are defensive-minded coaches who failed to build any consistency on offense. Ryan went through three coordinators in six years and Bowles three in four. It's impossible to develop players when the playbook changes almost every year. As Ryan used to say, the proof is in the pudding. Since 2011, the Jets rank 30th in scoring and 30th in yards. That's some bad pudding.

"Unless you have a good quarterback, it's hard as hell to make the playoffs," Ryan said.

In one respect, it's a chicken-or-egg question. Are the Jets dysfunctional because they haven't had an elite quarterback? Or has the lack of an elite quarterback made them dysfunctional? It's more of the latter. Their most recent quarterback to make the Pro Bowl was Brett Favre (2008), and he made it on reputation alone. The Jets have drafted six quarterbacks since 2011, only two of whom remain in the league: Darnold and Geno Smith (Los Angeles Chargers).

Is there any hope for the future? Kearse, the former Super Bowl champ, pondered the question for a few seconds.

"There are pieces for a solid foundation," he said. "You have a young, gifted quarterback who I think will get better over time. Guys like Jamal Adams ... I mean, just watch him play, and that tells you everything you need to know. You've got pieces here. We just have to continue to build that core group."

Another familiar refrain.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Is there any hope for the future? Kearse, the former Super Bowl champ, pondered the question for a few seconds.

"There are pieces for a solid foundation," he said. "You have a young, gifted quarterback who I think will get better over time. Guys like Jamal Adams ... I mean, just watch him play, and that tells you everything you need to know. You've got pieces here. We just have to continue to build that core group."

He ponder the question, answered it and then laughed...all these dudes have is a SS and 21 year old QB.  They're screwed.

[playtowinthegame]

16 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

I'm sorry to say it, but our organization is bad," said a former Jets player, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "[We're] the Browns of the Northeast. It'll be a long time before they win. The folks they have don't care. They're protecting each other from getting fired and bulls--- the owner when he shows up. They need an overhaul. They're content with losing."

"They don't fit the mentality of the fan base," a former Jets staffer said of the current leadership. "Show some guts, show some balls. There's none of that. They need to hire someone who can identify with the fan base."

The former player is likely Damien Woody. Browns of the Northeast and they're content with losing. All cold hard truths.

[playtowinthegame]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

He ponder the question, answered it and then laughed...all these dudes have is a SS and 21 year old QB.  They're screwed.

A familiar refrain. ?

[Creepy Lurker]

It’s so true. If we keep Mac, prepare for a very long period of cementing ourselves as the worst franchise in the league. That is why this thread exists. MAYBE our sentiment will catch on somewhere with the media or something and lay blame where it belongs.

I am not hopeful as our ownership is comprised of 2 of the dumbest people walking the earth. It is what it is. Root for Sam and some of the other players that deserve it and have ZERO expectations. 

[dcJet]

I still would rather keep Macc at the moment than the alternative of a new rookie GM.  We need to break this fire-GM, hire rookie, fire GM cycle.

He did perform better this year.  My hope is that he has learned from his mistakes and will improve. 

 

[dbatesman]

6 minutes ago, dcJet said:

I still would rather keep Macc at the moment than the alternative of a new rookie GM.  We need to break this fire-GM, hire rookie, fire GM cycle.

Yeah, whatever else you can say about Maccagnan, he's definitely, uh, employed by the team

[dcJet]

Just saying that if he is capable of analyzing the processes that led to Stewart, Hack, Wilk and others, then he may be able to avoid them next time. 

I say keep him one year at a time, let him work with a new coach and structure and lets see if we have something.  He's already under contract.  GM's do improve.  There's lot of examples of that.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, dcJet said:

I still would rather keep Macc at the moment than the alternative of a new rookie GM.  We need to break this fire-GM, hire rookie, fire GM cycle.

He did perform better this year.  My hope is that he has learned from his mistakes and will improve. 

 

I get it but Mac has been so bad that I think it’s better to take a shot at even a rookie GM. I agree it’s far from ideal but he’s terrible. We know he’ll continue to be terrible so I’d rather at least have some hope in an unknown.

We’ve discussed in other threads what is ideal but clearly it’s not going to happen so here we are. If Bowles wasn’t a complete train wreck, I’d keep him and Mac together for 1 more year if necessary  and ONLY to buy us time finding the right replacements. Hire a president of football ops ASAP to take time evaluating and lining up “his guys” for 2020. This way we could fire the both of them together and move on from Macc as quickly as possible and PROPERLY without rushing to find replacements.

It would be well thought out for once. I don’t think there is enough time to find a good GM AND coach at this point. This is why we got Bowles first in 2015. There is more demand for coaches and more openings than GM and Woody rushed since he didn’t want to miss out on a top candidate that year. That’s how this shotgun marriage was born. 

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, dcJet said:

He did perform better this year.  My hope is that he has learned from his mistakes and will improve.

No he didn't, and no he won't. 

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Just saying that if he is capable of analyzing the processes that led to Stewart, Hack, Wilk and others, then he may be able to avoid them next time. 

I say keep him one year at a time, let him work with a new coach and structure and lets see if we have something.  He's already under contract.  GM's do improve.  There's lot of examples of that.

Yeah totes there's no way he can make terrible picks a FIFTH year in a row, right??

[Beerfish]

14 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Just saying that if he is capable of analyzing the processes that led to Stewart, Hack, Wilk and others, then he may be able to avoid them next time. 

I say keep him one year at a time, let him work with a new coach and structure and lets see if we have something.  He's already under contract.  GM's do improve.  There's lot of examples of that.

Well being a LONG time scout he should know the process by now.  After 4 full drafts we have amazingly little to show for it.

[dcJet]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No he didn't, and no he won't. 

Alternate facts?   Most fans think he did better last year.

[dcJet]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well being a LONG time scout he should know the process by now.  After 4 full drafts we have amazingly little to show for it.

Scouting and GM'ing are different.   True his drafts have sucked.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Alternate facts?   Most fans think he did better last year.

"Most fans" are idiots.  What did he do significantly better last year?  He blindly traded up from 6 to 3, and the trade was engineered by Heimerdinger anyways.  He took a DT in Round 3.  He continued to ignore the Offense Line.  And our franchise QB is in the worst possible situation because of Macc's prior failures. 

I don't want improvement from god awful to just bad.  GM's aren't like young prospects who need time to develop.  He came to the Jets advertised as a "personnel guy" and a scouting background.  We needed him to find quality talent in all 4 drafts, especially since we had high picks in 3 of them. 

Dude is the most wasteful GM in the NFL when it comes to handling draft capital/resources.  Yet you want to give him a 5th year to see if he's gone from bad to mediocre.  Talk about a low bar to set. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, dcJet said:

Scouting and GM'ing are different.   True his drafts have sucked.

That's 90 % of a GM's job.  To use the information you have to nail the draft.  He's sucked at that, and thus needs to go. 

[dcJet]

21 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I get it but Mac has been so bad that I think it’s better to take a shot at even a rookie GM. I agree it’s far from ideal but he’s terrible. We know he’ll continue to be terrible so I’d rather at least have some hope in an unknown.

We’ve discussed in other threads what is ideal but clearly it’s not going to happen so here we are. If Bowles wasn’t a complete train wreck, I’d keep him and Mac together for 1 more year if necessary  and ONLY to buy us time finding the right replacements. Hire a president of football ops ASAP to take time evaluating and lining up “his guys” for 2020. This way we could fire the both of them together and move on from Macc as quickly as possible and PROPERLY without rushing to find replacements.

It would be well thought out for once. I don’t think there is enough time to find a good GM AND coach at this point. This is why we got Bowles first in 2015. There is more demand for coaches and more openings than GM and Woody rushed since he didn’t want to miss out on a top candidate that year. That’s how this shotgun marriage was born. 

I'm all for organizational change as this one isn't working. 

We agree that firing Macc now rushes us to find his replacement.  That's my point.  

 

[Creepy Lurker]

7 minutes ago, dcJet said:

I'm all for organizational change as this one isn't working. 

We agree that firing Macc now rushes us to find his replacement.  That's my point.  

 

I agree and my opinion is basically rushing and picking an unknown rookie GM (assuming we can’t get someone with experience like McKenzie), is better than keeping Mac. It’s  the lesser of 2 evils in my eyes but far from ideal or the proper way to do things 

[dcJet]

1 hour ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I agree and my opinion is basically rushing and picking an unknown rookie GM (assuming we can’t get someone with experience like McKenzie), is better than keeping Mac. It’s  the lesser of 2 evils in my eyes but far from ideal or the proper way to do things 

and round and round we go.  New rookie GM will get three years and excuses for first couple drafts.  Then fire him and get another rookie.

 

[dcJet]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

"Most fans" are idiots.  What did he do significantly better last year?  He blindly traded up from 6 to 3, and the trade was engineered by Heimerdinger anyways.  He took a DT in Round 3.  He continued to ignore the Offense Line.  And our franchise QB is in the worst possible situation because of Macc's prior failures. 

I don't want improvement from god awful to just bad.  GM's aren't like young prospects who need time to develop.  He came to the Jets advertised as a "personnel guy" and a scouting background.  We needed him to find quality talent in all 4 drafts, especially since we had high picks in 3 of them. 

Dude is the most wasteful GM in the NFL when it comes to handling draft capital/resources.  Yet you want to give him a 5th year to see if he's gone from bad to mediocre.  Talk about a low bar to set. 

so much wrong with this post. 

Most fans are not idiots. 

Macc gets the credit for the trade up, not the assistant GM. 

New GM's are like prospects and can get better. 

Everyone salivates over Mickey Loomis' draft two years ago after 10 plus years of horrible drafting.  Experience does help.

 

 

[dcJet]

Loomis would have been run out of town here after after turning a playoff team into a 3 win team in his first 4 years. 

Then he got a QB and a coach and now he's a genius.    Let's see what Macc can do with a qb and his own coach.  

Running Tanny out of town got us Idsick and Mac.  If Macc doesn't kill it this year, there will be plenty of rookie GM's to pick from next year.

[Creepy Lurker]

28 minutes ago, dcJet said:

and round and round we go.  New rookie GM will get three years and excuses for first couple drafts.  Then fire him and get another rookie.

 

Possible but it’s better to take a chance and at least not saddle the new coach with a lame duck GM or scare away potential candidates. It’s also better to take a chance and maybe find someone half decent which is all that we can realistically hope for. Mac and Bowles are atrocious and were given more than enough time. 

[Jetsplayer21]

16 hours ago, Mavericknyc1980 said:

I think Ciminis article today were there is no guarantees he will be back is starting to show he might not be that safe

Some Mac fans will be crying?

[JetPotato]

2 hours ago, dcJet said:

Alternate facts?   Most fans think he did better last year.

It wasn't possible to do worse.

[joewilly12]