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Where do you stand on Maccagnan?

What should happen with GM Mike Maccagnan?  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. What should happen with GM Mike Maccagnan?

    • He should be FIRED at the end of the season no matter what
      71
    • He should get ONE MORE year given recent results and to see if Coaching was the main problem
      20
    • He should be SAFE and his job status shouldn't even be up for discussion at this point.
      10


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A poll on Bowles would be a landslide in favor of dumping him.  Maybe we'd get some nuanced opinions about whether it should have happened this week vs. the end of the season but the end game is still the same.  Jets fans want Bowles gone.

With Maccagnan it's a slightly different story.  He has underperformed, no doubt about it.  But questions linger about whether a better Head Coach would have found more wins with this team.  His drafts have been hit or miss (no busts in Round 1 and all are starters, but he hasn't found much after that and is 0 for 37 on WRs).  Trades and FA paint a slightly better picture but again, a mixed bag.  His only saving grace might be the fact that he seems to have finally made the right power move to land a potential franchise QB and the Jets have the second strongest 2019 Salary Cap position in the league. But what good is Salary Cap space if you're signing underachievers like Spencer Long and Trumaine Johnson to start?  Macc is an enigma.

So I think a poll is worthy to take the temperature of the fanbase on Macc.

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If John Harbaugh is out there, go get him. Mac gets one more year. BUT - just because we have $100 million to spend doesn't mean that all the groceries we want till be on the shelf. I can name 15 teams with our identical needs - LT, Edge, WR1

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fire maccagnan & the entire regime black monday..

they came in together, that's how they should leave..

zero upside in being in position to having this conversation again next year at this time.. 

 

 

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On his throat.  He's terrible. Replace him and the coaching staff.  Any one of the draft guru's here could do better. 

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9 minutes ago, KRL said:

The negatives for Maccagnan are:

- He's missed on too many early draft picks (Smith, Mauldin, Hackenberg, Stewart, Hansen)
which has cost us depth

- He's been shaky with giving out big $$$ contracts (Revis, Wilkerson, Fitzpatrick, maybe Johnson)

- He still hasn't found an OLB pass rusher

- He hasn't invested premium resources into the OLine


The positives are:

- He's kept the cap clean with the way he's structured contracts

- He's been good in finding undervalued talent (Carpenter, Shell, R. Anderson, H. Anderson,
Williamson, Copeland, Claiborne, Roberts)

- But the thing that's going to keep him in place is the way he attacked the QB position and
got Darnold.  After going 50 years without a franchise QB that's going to supercede all his
mistakes


Another thing that's going to keep Maccagnan off the hook is the fact that Bowles put the focus
on himself by losing to two horrid QB's  

I can see this as the rationale by Ownership but it’s completely wrong. He could have gotten a FQB in 2017 just by staying put. When drafting top 10 consistently (3 times in 4 years), if you don’t come away with a FQB, something is seriously wrong. Mac apparently liked the 2018 QB class better but it took him 4 years to get a QB who we don’t even know is good yet(lots of potential).

ANYONE could have done that. It didn’t take special talent. In fact, we had to trade up to be in a guaranteed position for 1 of the top 3 and it cost us a decent amount. He did well by trading up early before the price skyrocketed but was basically throwing a dart at a top 3 QB and had no real rock solid plan. He gets credit for the move but so much had to break correctly to get Sam and that was LUCK. 

You can’t compound a mistake(making Mac GM in the first place) with another mistake (keeping him just because he drafted a QB). He reached for Hackenturd as well so it’s not like this was his first real shot at drafting starting QB.

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10 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I can see this as the rationale by Ownership but it’s completely wrong. He could have gotten a FQB in 2017 just by staying put. When drafting top 10 consistently (3 times in 4 years), if you don’t come away with a FQB, something is seriously wrong. Mac apparently liked them 2018 QB class better but it took him 4 years to get a QB who we don’t even know is good yet(lots of potential).

ANYONE could have done that. It didn’t take specialt talent. In fact, we had to trade up to be in guaranteed position for 1 of the top 3 and it cost us a decent amount. He did well by trading up early before the price skyrocketed but was basically throwing a dart at a top 3 QB and had no real rock solid plan. He gets credit for the move but so much had to break correctly to get Sam and that was LUCK. 

You can’t compound a mistake(making Mac GM in the first place) with another mistake (keeping him just because he drafted a QB). He reaches for Hackenturd as well so it’s not like this was his first real shot at drafting starting QB.

Agree with everything you said but there's also a lot of unluckiness involved with things.  Macc got lucky that Darnold fell to #3 but he found a strategic way to get the Jets there and increase their chances.  The trade of Richardson, doing the deal with Indy a full 4 weeks before the Draft, etc.  

Everything I've read about the WRs we've taken in recent years was that they were 2nd and 3rd round rated talents.  For whatever reason (luck?) they didn't work out.  That could certainly be on Macc or his scouts but the attempt to address the WR position was there and none of those picks were considered reaches.  I criticize Macc for not investing early picks in the OLine but that's not the case with WR....it's simply been a series of misses, injuries (Devin Smith), etc.

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 11.56.56 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 11.55.55 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 11.56.24 AM.png

 

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3 minutes ago, genot said:

Im not going to comment other than to urge everyone to look at what he inherited. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2014_roster.htm

It was surely terrible....but it’s been 4 years and it’s not a ton better. Inheriting that roster does not excuse the horrendous drafting, team building/draft philosophy or horrible large$ contracts (except Revis since that was Woody).

Same with Idzik, we would have been patient but you can claim “rebuild” and COMPLETELY f*ck up the draft. Idzik did this at an epic level which is why he was fired so quickly but Mac has done a terrible job for 4 years. We gave him more time and more benefit of the doubt but it’s over. 

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10 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I can see this as the rationale by Ownership but it’s completely wrong. He could have gotten a FQB in 2017 just by staying put. When drafting top 10 consistently (3 times in 4 years), if you don’t come away with a FQB, something is seriously wrong. Mac apparently liked the 2018 QB class better but it took him 4 years to get a QB who we don’t even know is good yet(lots of potential).

ANYONE could have done that. It didn’t take special talent. In fact, we had to trade up to be in a guaranteed position for 1 of the top 3 and it cost us a decent amount. He did well by trading up early before the price skyrocketed but was basically throwing a dart at a top 3 QB and had no real rock solid plan. He gets credit for the move but so much had to break correctly to get Sam and that was LUCK. 

You can’t compound a mistake(making Mac GM in the first place) with another mistake (keeping him just because he drafted a QB). He reached for Hackenturd as well so it’s not like this was his first real shot at drafting starting QB.

you hit a lot of nails square on the head creepy..

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8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thanks for that.  That team was better everywhere except QB and the secondary.  They had a sh*t ton of money and the 6th pick in the draft - yet here we are.  

Your in fantasy land

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1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Agree with everything you said but there's also a lot of unluckiness involved with things.  Macc got lucky that Darnold fell to #3 but he found a strategic way to get the Jets there and increase their chances.  The trade of Richardson, doing the deal with Indy a full 4 weeks before the Draft, etc.  

Everything I've read about the WRs we've taken in recent years was that they were 2nd and 3rd round rated talents.  For whatever reason (luck?) they didn't work out.  That could certainly be on Macc or his scouts but the attempt to address the WR position was there and none of those picks were considered reaches.  I criticize Macc for not investing early picks in the OLine but that's not the case with WR....it's simply been a series of misses, injuries (Devin Smith), etc.

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 11.56.56 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 11.55.55 AM.png

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 11.56.24 AM.png

 

The draft grades on his picks (except Hackenturd) seemed to be in line with where they were taken. The positions that he targeted while skipping good players at areas of need, and the amount of misses (unlucky? as you are saying) have to do with scouting as well.

No GM hits on every pick  but to miss on so many while having insider knowledge and to be actively scouting is unacceptable. It is way different than some internet GM with draft rankings. The internet GM with these rankings would destroy Mac at drafting and that’s a MAJOR problem. 

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22 minutes ago, KRL said:

- But the thing that's going to keep him in place is the way he attacked the QB position and
got Darnold.  After going 50 years without a franchise QB that's going to supercede all his
mistakes

I think Mac gets way too much credit for this. Nice trade up, but its not like we gave up nothing. We paid a decent (and worth while) price. We also have to stop saying we haven't had a franchise QB in 50 years. While they did not lead us to a Super Bowl, Ken O'Brien, Vinny Testeverde, Sanchez (early), and Pennington, all were talented enough to win a super bowl with the correct pieces around them. 

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4 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

you hit a lot of nails square on the head creepy..

Well I have 2 eyes and know what I’ve seen from this team the last 4 years. This isn’t an “admit you were wrong”/hindsight 20/20/I told you so stance either. It’s that regardless of how much you hate or like Mac, the right move is to move on AT THIS POINT. We have gotten to that point where it will hinder things going forward. 

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9 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I can see this as the rationale by Ownership but it’s completely wrong. He could have gotten a FQB in 2017 just by staying put. When drafting top 10 consistently (3 times in 4 years), if you don’t come away with a FQB, something is seriously wrong. Mac apparently liked the 2018 QB class better but it took him 4 years to get a QB who we don’t even know is good yet(lots of potential).

ANYONE could have done that. It didn’t take special talent. In fact, we had to trade up to be in a guaranteed position for 1 of the top 3 and it cost us a decent amount. He did well by trading up early before the price skyrocketed but was basically throwing a dart at a top 3 QB and had no real rock solid plan. He gets credit for the move but so much had to break correctly to get Sam and that was LUCK. 

You can’t compound a mistake(making Mac GM in the first place) with another mistake (keeping him just because he drafted a QB). He reached for Hackenturd as well so it’s not like this was his first real shot at drafting starting QB.

He should'nt put his job on the line for a QB that he isn't 110% confident in. He wasn't confident in Deshaun and Patrick. Other teams weren't either and that's why they fell to us at 6. If those picks we're such slam dunks other teams would have scooped them up earlier. But they didn't because they both had vast red flags coming into the draft. I liked that he waited for the stronger 2018 class and the draft move was genius. He was confident in 3 guys and traded to #3 to get one of them. It was gutsy and deserves all the credit for this.

Also a GM HAS to cater to the needs of the HC that HE INHEIRTED. He can't just pick whomever he feels is best. He needs to pick whomever he feels will fit his coach. So the picks that Maccagnan made were also influenced heavily by Todd Bowles and I do think Todd Bowles is equally responsible for the mess that the roster is. This is 3 years of Todd's guys not particularly Macc's guys. 

This is why Maccagnan all along needed a coach that he picked and can stand by. He was forced fed Todd Bowles and it's unfair for Maccagnan to be fired because Bowles can't coach the talent he was given, and Bowles was given A LOT of high draft picks for HIS defense.

 

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7 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It was surely terrible....but it’s been 4 years and it’s not a ton better. Inheriting that roster does not excuse the horrendous drafting, team building/draft philosophy or horrible large$ contracts (except Revis since that was Woody).

Same with Idzik, we would have been patient but you can claim “rebuild” and COMPLETELY f*ck up the draft. Idzik did this at an epic level which is why he was fired so quickly but Mac has done a terrible job for 4 years. We gave him more time and more benefit of the doubt but it’s over. 

Mac would have had to hit big on every draft pick and be able to sign quality free agents at positions of need, for us to be a contending squad. Too much too ask. When you look at that 2014 roster that included all of Idziks draft picks who should in some way be contributing now. How many are. Enunwa. Thats it.

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Here’s another survey

Are the Johnsons

A- Stupid

B- Stupid

c-Stupid

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Just now, Creepy Lurker said:

Well I have 2 eyes and know what I’ve seen from this team the last 4 years. This isn’t an “admit you were wrong”/hindsight 20/20/I told you so stance either. It’s that regardless of how much you hate or like Mac, the right move is to move on AT THIS POINT. We have gotten to that point where it will hinder things going forward. 

LOLz i didn't mean to imply hitting those nails squarely should have been difficult..

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I give him the year and the cap space. That's my only prob with him because he had Idzik's cap space a few year's back and didn't do a good job with it. As for CS imo the GM should choose the HC. The HC selects his staff. It doesn't usually work that way in the NFL because some owners like to play like they're the GM. And many GM's don't give coaches the authority. It worked pretty well with the Red Sox when the GM left the manager alone.

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Complete disgrace. Team has regressed every single year he's been here. The notion that he's safe speaks to the complete ineptitude of the brothers Johnson.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

At least idzik actually drafted offensive lineman.

The only guy he drafted that's here is winters. A backup. A Jag.

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1 minute ago, Reynolds1029 said:

He should'nt put his job on the line for a QB that he isn't 110% confident in. He wasn't confident in Deshaun and Patrick. Other teams weren't either and that's why they fell to us at 6. If those picks we're such slam dunks other teams would have scooped them up earlier. But they didn't because they both had vast red flags coming into the draft. I liked that he waited for the stronger 2018 class and the draft move was genius. He was confident in 3 guys and traded to #3 to get one of them. It was gutsy and deserves all the credit for this.

Also a GM HAS to cater to the needs of the HC that HE INHEIRTED. He can't just pick whomever he feels is best. He needs to pick whomever he feels will fit his coach. So the picks that Maccagnan made were also influenced heavily by Todd Bowles and I do think Todd Bowles is equally responsible for the mess that the roster is. This is 3 years of Todd's guys not particularly Macc's guys. 

This is why Maccagnan all along needed a coach that he picked and can stand by. He was forced fed Todd Bowles and it's unfair for Maccagnan to be fired because Bowles can't coach the talent he was given, and Bowles was given A LOT of high draft picks for HIS defense.

 

I agree with the QB situation which is why I said he liked 2018 QB class better. Nothing wrong with that. But to praise him for finally getting one like it was some huge feat is crazy. Consistent top 10 picks and after missing terrible and overdrafting Hackenturd by 2 whole rounds, he HAD to find a QB. He was at the end of the rope in that regard. He didn’t know who would be there at #3.

Luckily it worked out and as I said I GIVE HIM CREDIT for trading up early (keeping the price down) and being in position for “a” QB(not necessarily the one that he wanted because there was no guarantee that he’d be there at #3). So he gets credit but not to the point of making him untouchable and it absolutely does not give him a pass for the ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE job of drafting that the so called scout did during 2015-2017.

2018 is too soon but I still had issues with it on draft day given our needs (o-line in 3rd maybe? late round return specialist?).  Herndon and Nickerson seem like they may be nice depth and I hope Shepherd pans out (I HATE Older draft picks which is a Mac specialty). 

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40 minutes ago, KRL said:

- But the thing that's going to keep him in place is the way he attacked the QB position and
got Darnold.  After going 50 years without a franchise QB that's going to supercede all his
mistakes

He got extremely lucky that Darnold fell to 3, and he also drafted Christian Hackenberg in the 2nd round 2 years prior. 

The Hackenberg pick alone was a fireable offense.

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6 minutes ago, genot said:

Mac would have had to hit big on every draft pick and be able to sign quality free agents at positions of need, for us to be a contending squad. Too much too ask. When you look at that 2014 roster that included all of Idziks draft picks who should in some way be contributing now. How many are. Enunwa. Thats it.

No. He would not have had to hit on EVERY pick and sign EVERY free agent. That’s not realistic at all. What he had to do was replace and aging Ferguson and Mangold while solidifying the rest of the o-line (that was already neglected for years) in lieu of the inevitable rookie QB that we were drafting so the offense could at least function while he gradually added pieces. Defense had some pieces (all that we moved on from) and keeping a piece or 2 would have helped.

Resigning wilkerson while knowing internally that he was consistently late and had questionable commitment Was stupid. Fans that weren’t privy to that information wanted him resigned and resigning him would have been the right move if he wasn’t late malcontent with no work ethic which again, fans didn’t know. 

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This is a tough one. I think I lean towards firing him just because he'd be tied to the new coach, which would automatically buy him 3 years that I'm not sure he's earned.

BUT I don't think he's done a bad job - an average job given the circumstances. We have been stuck in QB purgatory and a team is nothing without a QB. Now that we've got one, we can finally focus on not chasing a QB.

So IMO he is going to stay because he got the quarterback and that is half the battle (maybe more) when it comes to building a successful football team.

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10 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

LOLz i didn't mean to imply hitting those nails squarely should have been difficult..

That’s the point. It seems pretty obvious. 

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19 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

The draft grades on his picks (except Hackenturd) seemed to be in line with where they were taken. The positions that he targeted while skipping good players at areas of need, and the amount of misses (unlucky? as you are saying) have to do with scouting as well.

No GM hits on every pick  but to miss on so many while having insider knowledge and to be actively scouting is unacceptable. It is way different than some internet GM with draft rankings. The internet GM with these rankings would destroy Mac at drafting and that’s a MAJOR problem. 

And just when I thought our run of 2nd, 3rd, 4th Round WR misses couldn't really be matched I remembered the Detroit Lions...

Screen Shot 2018-11-14 at 12.25.08 PM.png

 

 #2, #7 and #10 OVERALL picks at WR for 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Bust, Bust, Bust!

That's nuts.

 

 

SharpAptHogget-size_restricted.gif

 

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