Where do you stand on Maccagnan?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Both should have been fired on Monday, doing nothing just extends the losing culture, the least they could have done was fire bowles, proof of life,  not doing anything proves they are happy being losers - CJ is on the clock

I get how logical, level headed and "classy" it is to not have made any rash moves, how nice - bla bla bla - all fine thoughts for a normal business, daddy might be proud but I bet he had bigger balls and is rolling in his grave...

The problem with that line of thought is this is not a normal business - the Jets are not selling tampons or cue tips, they are supposed to be a competitive NFL football team with a single goal is to win football games, logical and rational does not win, nice guys finish last, life is not fair and not making a move on Monday was a terrible "no" decision - cowardly and embarrassing

[dbatesman]

36 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Thanks for that.  That team was better everywhere except QB and the secondary.  They had a sh*t ton of money and the 6th pick in the draft - yet here we are.  

It's kind of amazing that the people who believe that the 2014 Jets were the worst football team ever assembled also believe that the 2018 Jets headed in the right direction.

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It's kind of amazing that the people who believe that the 2014 Jets were the worst football team ever assembled also believe that the 2018 Jets headed in the right direction.

To be fair there are like 6 of those guys and they were all vetted as loony birds a loooooong time ago.

[genot]

25 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

No. He would not have had to hit on EVERY pick and sign EVERY free agent. That’s not realistic at all. What he had to do was replace and aging Ferguson and Mangold while solidifying the rest of the o-line (that was already neglected for years) in lieu of the inevitable rookie QB that we were drafting so the offense could at least function while he gradually added pieces. Defense had some pieces (all that we moved on from) and keeping a piece or 2 would have helped.

Resigning wilkerson while knowing internally that he was consistently late and had questionable commitment Was stupid. Fans that weren’t privy to that information wanted him resigned and resigning him would have been the right move if he wasn’t late malcontent with no work ethic which again, fans didn’t know. 

Colon had to be replaced. The other two are out of the league. Pace, Harris, were through. Coples, sucked. The entire secondary had to be replaced. Decker had a serious injury. Percy Harvin. Geno. Cumberland. Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dbatesman]

11 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

To be fair there are like 6 of those guys and they were all vetted as loony birds a loooooong time ago.

But they're always the loudest!

[genot]

17 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It's kind of amazing that the people who believe that the 2014 Jets were the worst football team ever assembled also believe that the 2018 Jets headed in the right direction.

It was a team with aging starters, that at one time were quality, but at the end of their Careers.

[#27TheDominator]

The proper answer to this thread is: The throat.

 

48 minutes ago, genot said:

Your in fantasy land

Yep.  Sure glad this team's offense isn't saddled with stiffs like Decker, Harvin and Ivory. So glad we went out and got studs like Powell, Ijalana, Qvale, Winters, and Enunwa.

[Creepy Lurker]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

Colon had to be replaced. The other two are out of the league. Pace, Harris, were through. Coples, sucked. The entire secondary had to be replaced. Decker had a serious injury. Percy Harvin. Geno. Cumberland. Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He had  the Sons and that’s about it. I AGREED with you that it was a terrible roster but it’s been 4 years. It’s taking longer than 4 years because of all the misses that Mac has had. 4 freakin years is more than enough time to show progress, not be a 4-12 team again which is where we are heading. Not sure what your point is. 

[#27TheDominator]

46 minutes ago, genot said:

The only guy he drafted that's here is winters. A backup. A Jag.

Yes.  A backup, a Jag that Maccagnan gave a $30M extension and has not been able to  upgrade in 4 years.  

[Paradis]

who are the 3 muppets who said "It shouldn't even be a discussion"

 

lol

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

.

 

I have so many problems with this. It's nice that the internet says (for example) Stewart was projected to go in round 3... yet no one in any circle at all, was talking about him. He was a non-factor in every sense of the word. You look at the talent that was on the board in the 3rd round - and try to sell me on Stewart, and i'll try to sell you a goose who lays golden eggs.

You know who else had a "round 1" grade according to this? Tavon Austin. 

All i can ascertain from this is that Macc stopped doing his job when he got the job.

Hackenberg

 

[peekskill68]

56 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Well I have 2 eyes and know what I’ve seen from this team the last 4 years. This isn’t an “admit you were wrong”/hindsight 20/20/I told you so stance either. It’s that regardless of how much you hate or like Mac, the right move is to move on AT THIS POINT. We have gotten to that point where it will hinder things going forward. 

Agree. It will limit the list of HC's willing to come here if you don't start with a clean slate. And the HC will be a recruiting factor with free agents. 

[genot]

5 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

He had  the Sons and that’s about it. I AGREED with you that it was a terrible roster but it’s been 4 years. It’s taking longer than 4 years because of all the misses that Mac has had. 4 freakin years is more than enough time to show progress, not be a 4-12 team again which is where we are heading. Not sure what your point is. 

My point is that we had unreasonable expectations for this team, considering what he inherited, and what was available to him in free agency and the draft. Im fully aware of mac's bust pics. Every team drafts players that don't pan out. Every team. We can look back in hindsight and say, hey, look at what this guys doing. It's a crapshoot. I don't believe this team is that far off from competing. i really. don't What we need is a coach that can attract quality free agents here, who still want to win. Lets find a pass rusher, rebuild our offensive line,,. After that it would be adding a playmaker or two. We can do most of what i mentioned this offseason. We need a Harbaugh in here. We need to trade down. Mac, well, Mac needs to ace this draft.

[genot]

11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I have so many problems with this. It's nice that the internet says (for example) Stewart was projected to go in round 3... yet no one in any circle at all, was talking about him. He was a non-factor in every sense of the word. You look at the talent that was on the board in the 3rd round - and try to sell me on Stewart, and i'll try to sell you a goose who lays golden eggs.

You know who else had a "round 1" grade according to this? Tavon Austin. 

All i can ascertain from this is that Macc stopped doing his job when he got the job.

Hackenberg

 

Every scouting report i read had Stewart with a 3rd round grade. It wasn't a bad pick. He just busted. Very easily could have been Hunt, or Kamara. You just never know for sure.

[dbatesman]

27 minutes ago, genot said:

It was a team with aging starters, that at one time were quality, but at the end of their Careers.

And this year's team is...?

[Lot K Tailgaters]

The Bowles MacCagnan marriage was an arranged marriage.  Woody basically told MacCagnan the job is his only if he takes Bowles which is unfair.  

That being said his draft picks have not been very good.  There were a couple good ones but Hackenberg, Stewart, and Hansen are unforgivable.  He really needs to go   

Not only that let’s say we give him another year as GM and get him a new coach and the team still tanks.  Then we need a new coach and GM which means three coaches in three years for Darnold.  

We have $100 million to spend and I don’t trust a GM on the hot seat to spend it wisely nor do I trust him hot seat or no hot seat.  

[genot]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

And this year's team is...?

A team without an offensive line, and a very promising rookie QB. But still a rookie. And a very poor HC. What does that spell. Disaster.

[Creepy Lurker]

12 minutes ago, genot said:

My point is that we had unreasonable expectations for this team, considering what he inherited, and what was available to him in free agency and the draft. Im fully aware of mac's bust pics. Every team drafts players that don't pan out. Every team. We can look back in hindsight and say, hey, look at what this guys doing. It's a crapshoot. I don't believe this team is that far off from competing. i really. don't What we need is a coach that can attract quality free agents here, who still want to win. Lets find a pass rusher, rebuild our offensive line,,. After that it would be adding a playmaker or two. We can do most of what i mentioned this offseason. We need a Harbaugh in here. We need to trade down. Mac, well, Mac needs to ace this draft.

I don’t think the expectations were unreasonable at all. We expected a rebuild after Idzik. Mac wanted to do a “competitive rebuild” which is fine in theory and the only reason why we are in shambles is because the first 2 years, Mac drafted like complete trash and missed on young free agents like Buster Skrine and Marcus Gilchrist.

ALL GMs have misses and are allowed to, I agree. NOT ALL GMs miss as badly as Mac has and have a bizarre philosophy for building a team/drafting which includes and emphasis on non premium positions with high draft picks and completely neglecting the offense when you know you are brining in a rookie QB at some point in your tenure.

He’s absolutely terrible and we can agree to disagree. I have no other points to make or that haven’t already been made. I respect your opinion but disagree. 

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

A team without an offensive line, and a very promising rookie QB. But still a rookie. And a very poor HC. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

I have so many problems with this. It's nice that the internet says (for example) Stewart was projected to go in round 3... yet no one in any circle at all, was talking about him. He was a non-factor in every sense of the word. You look at the talent that was on the board in the 3rd round - and try to sell me on Stewart, and i'll try to sell you a goose who lays golden eggs.

This is what I think too.  When Smith and Stewart were picked, I was like "What? Who?"  and I am a guy that loves mocking up late round/UDFA WRs. I really liked Robert Davis, Mack Hollins and Billy Brown that year.  This year it was MVS and Dylan Cantrell.  For me to think "Why?"  about a prospect is telling.  I can say the same about Lee in 2016.  It's not that I hadn't heard of these guys, but they were not guys I was particularly interested in. 

[Bleedin Green]

So my conclusion from this poll is that approximately 20% of this board are sadomasochists.

Well, that is, even more sadomasochistic than simply being a Jets fan.

[#27TheDominator]

9 minutes ago, genot said:

A team without an offensive line, and a very promising rookie QB. But still a rookie. And a very poor HC. What does that spell. Disaster.

Can you tell me who wrote that on the chalkboard? 

[JustInFudge]

I'm going to put this one here.  It's the more appropriate thread since it's about our boy Mac's draft history in the "money" rounds outside of the 1st: 

His first two, 2nd round picks are no longer in the NFL. He's 2-3 on 2nd round picks with Maye "playing".

Of his three, 3rd round picks, 2 are no longer in the NFL with Jenkins probably being his best overall pick in terms of value as a JAG. yay!

Of his four, 4th round picks, 3 are no longer on the team, 2 are out of the NFL and more than likely the 3rd, Justin Burris, will be out of the league next year. 

Dude, you almost have to be trying to suck that bad

[Thai Jet]

2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

 

With Maccagnan it's a slightly different story.  He has underperformed, no doubt about it.  But questions linger about whether a better Head Coach would have found more wins with this team.  His drafts have been hit or miss (no busts in Round 1 and all are starters, but he hasn't found much after that and is 0 for 37 on WRs).  Trades and FA paint a slightly better picture but again, a mixed bag.  His only saving grace might be the fact that he seems to have finally made the right power move to land a potential franchise QB and the Jets have the second strongest 2019 Salary Cap position in the league. But what good is Salary Cap space if you're signing underachievers like Spencer Long and Trumaine Johnson to start?  Macc is an enigma.

So I think a poll is worthy to take the temperature of the fanbase on Macc.

Spencer Long was the best C in FA that fit our system. Trumaine Johnson was regarded as the #1 FA CB on the FA market and was universally hailed here when we acquired him.

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

I'm going to put this one here.  It's the more appropriate thread since it's about our boy Mac's draft history in the "money" rounds outside of the 1st: 

His first two, 2nd round picks are no longer in the NFL. He's 2-3 on 2nd round picks with Maye "playing".

Of his three, 3rd round picks, 2 are no longer in the NFL with Jenkins probably being his best overall pick in terms of value as a JAG. yay!

Of his four, 4th round picks, 3 are no longer on the team, 2 are out of the NFL and more than likely the 3rd, Justin Burris, will be out of the league next year. 

Dude, you almost have to be trying to suck that bad

Mostly agree, although I'd argue Lac Edwards has actually been his best pick.

Needless to say, that's not meant as a compliment.

[#27TheDominator]

Just now, Thai Jet said:

Spencer Long was the best C in FA that fit our system. Trumaine Johnson was regarded as the #1 FA CB on the FA market and was universally hailed here when we acquired him.

Don't worry about the truth.  Spout it!

Basically, all you are saying is that he knew we sucked at CB and C.  My hero.  

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I don’t think the expectations were unreasonable at all. We expected a rebuild after Idzik. Mac wanted to do a “competitive rebuild” which is fine in theory and the only reason why we are in shambles is because the first 2 years, Mac drafted like complete trash and missed on young free agents like Buster Skrine and Marcus Gilchrist.

ALL GMs have misses and are allowed to, I agree. NOT ALL GMs miss as badly as Mac has and have a bizarre philosophy for building a team/drafting which includes and emphasis on non premium positions with high draft picks and completely neglecting the offense when you know you are brining in a rookie QB at some point in your tenure.

He’s absolutely terrible and we can agree to disagree. I have no other points to make or that haven’t already been made. I respect your opinion but disagree. 

And i respect yours too. Don't get me wrong. He has neglected the offense. It's obvious to us, and i would hope it would be obvious to him. Im not a draftnik. From what i understand the last two years was a weak draft with regards to o-lineman. Also in free agency. This year could be a different story. No excuses.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, genot said:

And i respect yours too. Don't get me wrong. He has neglected the offense. It's obvious to us, and i would hope it would be obvious to him. Im not a draftnik. From what i understand the last two years was a weak draft with regards to o-lineman. Also in free agency. This year could be a different story. No excuses.

Colleges are not making o-line like they used to which is why it’s such a premium now. Misses are ok with o-line because you HAVE to try and draft anymore to even have a shot. It’s a shame. 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Mostly agree, although I'd argue Lac Edwards has actually been his best pick.

Needless to say, that's not meant as a compliment.

Fine great dandy.  When you cant move the ball, punter is important. lol

The bigger point is in rounds 2-4, where good GM's truly build their teams, Mac is 3 for 10 on players still on the team/league. 

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

And just when I thought our run of 2nd, 3rd, 4th Round WR misses couldn't really be matched I remembered the Detroit Lions...

 

 #2, #7 and #10 OVERALL picks at WR for 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Bust, Bust, Bust!

That's nuts.

 

And they were all very highly regarded when they came out. None of them were a "reach". You never know with college draft picks. ( Except for Hackenburg where I thought EVERYONE knew he wasn't worthy of being a 2nd round pick)

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It was surely terrible....but it’s been 4 years and it’s not a ton better. Inheriting that roster does not excuse the horrendous drafting, team building/draft philosophy or horrible large$ contracts (except Revis since that was Woody).

If you want to say the team he took over was terrible, that's fine.  And, it's hard to find disagreement with that.

However, after 4 years, how many points do you think the 2018 Jets would be favored over that team by?  Would they even be favored?  What exactly would our offensive line do with Wilkerson, Richardson, and Harrison at that point in their careers?

[jetstream23]

8 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Spencer Long was the best C in FA that fit our system. Trumaine Johnson was regarded as the #1 FA CB on the FA market and was universally hailed here when we acquired him.

I'm with you....but the results are the results.  It's like my earlier post about the WRs....nobody was saying we were drafting 6th round talent in the 3rd or 4th round.  Those guys were going right around where they should, but the results are still the results.  Is it the scouting?  Or, is it possibly more likely that it's the coaching these past 4 years that is causing seemingly good/decent talent to underperform once it gets here?

Maybe that's a good question - Even by virtue of luck the Jets have simply had to have landed a few very good talents.  Guys who with the right coaching could ascend and improve.  Does anybody see a single player who has gotten better or overachieved since he started playing under this coaching staff?

How much true talent other than maybe Brady, Gronk, etc. is on the Patriots roster?  How is it that Belichick wins despite a pretty damn bad draft record?  How does Belichick turn average talent into good performers and Bowles has turned decent talent into underperformers?

[#27TheDominator]

50 minutes ago, genot said:

It was a team with aging starters, that at one time were quality, but at the end of their Careers.

Wait.  Were you and Mike Maccagnan unaware that players age and their play deteriorates as they age?  

He elected to sign Revis, Cromartie and Harris, trade for Marshall and Fitzpatrick, and ride with Pace, D'Brick and Mangold.  Glad that he took that 2014 team and found sustainable success.  The fact these guys were old was not news to anyone. 

[Thai Jet]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

I'm with you....but the results are the results.  It's like my earlier post about the WRs....nobody was saying were drafting 6th round talent in the 3rd or 4th round.  Those guys were going right around where they should, but the results are still the results.  Is it the scouting?  Or, is it possibly more likely that it's the coaching these past 4 years that is causing seemingly good/decent talent to underperform once it gets here?

Maybe that's a good question - Even by virtue of luck the Jets have simply had to have landed a few very good talents.  Guy who with the right coaching could ascend and improve.  Does anybody see a single player who has gotten better or overachieved since he started playing under this coaching staff?

How much true talent other than maybe Brady, Gronk, etc. is on the Patriots roster?  How is it that Belichick wins despite a pretty damn bad draft record?  How does Belichick turn average talent into good performers and Bowles has turned decent talent into underperformers?

I think it's mostly coaching. That's why Todd HAS to go.

[Paradis]

Every scouting report i read had Stewart with a 3rd round grade. It wasn't a bad pick. He just busted. Very easily could have been Hunt, or Kamara. You just never know for sure.

 

Scouting reports that we read on Internet don’t necessarily reflect in house boards. Regardless, that may be an excuse for why YOU picked him if the GM job was an lottery based fan position... but that’s not how it is, is it.

This guy is being paid millions of dollars to AVIOD Stewart. Literally that’s supposed to be his credentials. In a round surrounded by talent in which 4/5 of the fans were calling player x or y, Macc went with player z...

 

That’s called being sh*tty at your job.

You can’t be welder and weld the wrong pipe and say, well cmon! It was in the pile. No. That’s why I paid you, a fcking journeyman welder, to do this job.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk