The unspoken issue with keeping our GM Macc

[Paradis]

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

Good point but what about the fact that the Jets have completely detached the GM from the HC in the reporting structure?  Unless they want to give someone full control in a Belichick or Andy Reid type role then a HC may not be that concerned unless he was being hired by a lame duck GM. But he's not, he's being hired by and reporting to Jets ownership, not the GM.....although Macc would certainly have a voice.

[Barkus]

not sure how big an issue that is. Mac is signed thru 2020. The new coach will likely have a significant say on who we bring in via FA and draft. I would think having a young possible franchise QB, lots of cap room, and high draft pick would make this a very attractive job for new HC. He can come in and immediately start building the team the way he wants. Many times a new coach has to come in and cut a bunch of players and start over the next year after he has built up cap space. The dirty work will already be done before new HC even steps into building. This team will be almost a blank slate and the biggest piece (young qb) is already in place. 

[Joe W. Namath]

If mac is retained, he is not on a short leash.  He gets another 3-4 years with the new coach.

Its a scary thiught.

[ZachEY]

25 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

 IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

When you say "unspoken," do you mean that I've said this like a dozen times over the past few weeks?

[Creepy Lurker]

28 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!!! KILL!! I mean FIRE MACC!!!!!!!!!

[Paradis]

If mac is retained, he is not on a short leash.  He gets another 3-4 years with the new coach.
Its a scary thiught.

That’s not accurate.


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[Paradis]

not sure how big an issue that is. Mac is signed thru 2020. The new coach will likely have a significant say on who we bring in via FA and draft. I would think having a young possible franchise QB, lots of cap room, and high draft pick would make this a very attractive job for new HC. He can come in and immediately start building the team the way he wants.

I’m sure any of this is true. HC doesn’t don’t automatically have a say in anything. Some are more involved than others.

Yea, on paper there’s a lot to work, but the jets are a far cry from being a dream job. We fall on the side of loser franchise if you had to divide the league into two columns. Macc’s job security is in question or near it. That’s going to impact a desirable coach’s decision if he has 2-3 suitors.


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[rex-n-effect]

Not sure this is unspoken or an unobvious issue. Any HC candidate looking at a team keeping the GM has to wonder whether his fate is tied to the GM. That's going to be an issue addressed with any serious candidate. Nobody even worth minimal consideration as a head coach would not think about this. 

There's no way for us looking in from the outside to know what kind of assurances will be made or how keeping the HC detatched from the GM might secure the HC's job in the minds of the Johnsons. We don't even know how hot Macc's seat might really be. This is all empty speculation. Sure, some candidates inevitably will have reservations about taking an HC position that isn't tied to a GM or because they think Macc is on his way out. That's not a revelation.

 

 

[Il Mostro]

When Macc screws up FA spending this off season, it will set this franchise back even further.  You think the Jets are in a hole now?  Just watch him dig the grave that much deeper.  

[Joe W. Namath]

23 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

That’s not accurate.


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It is accurate.  If he is retained and allowed to pick his own coach, you have to give that 3-4 years.  

You cant let him pick his coach and then not give them a few years to build the roster together.

[Freemanm]

It took me a while but I kind of agree. When Macc came in he had a huge amount of cap space and high draft picks. He constantly talks about the future. More than 4 years later, I think we have the right to ask when that "future" becomes now. Getting first round draft picks right is easy, especially when the Jets get the #6 pick or higher - I could have drafted Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams. But he has been awful beyond the first round. 

He knows the team has huge holes to fill in the offensive line and doesn't have the ability to pressure a QB. He has a ton of room under the cap, yet all he does in free agency is bottom feed, hoping he'll get good value out of either a washed up or undrafted player. Of course, there's the exception of Trumaine Johnson, but adding him alone is obviously not enough, plus he looks kind of over the hill now. 

[#27TheDominator]

37 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

When you say "unspoken," do you mean that I've said this like a dozen times over the past few weeks?

You said it with your eyes.

[dbatesman]

8 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

It took me a while but I kind of agree. When Macc came in he had a huge amount of cap space and high draft picks. He constantly talks about the future. More than 4 years later, I think we have the right to ask when that "future" becomes now.

In fairness to Maccagnan, we’re only four days into Stage MCMXVIII of the rebuild

[Paradis]

It is accurate.  If he is retained and allowed to pick his own coach, you have to give that 3-4 years.  
You cant let him pick his coach and then not give them a few years to build the roster together.

Again, not accurate. You’re pitching the “in theory” version of this. There’s many examples where struggling Franchises like the Jets have coaches and regimes that don’t see your 3 year plan through.

Namely, Macc’s choice of a HC could torpedo them both. He can’t pick players, what’s makes you think he can pick coaches?


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[Miss Lonelyhearts]

59 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

When you say "unspoken," do you mean that I've said this like a dozen times over the past few weeks?

Got there before JN did alriiiiight. Here’s your trophy.

[#27TheDominator]

15 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Again, not accurate. You’re pitching the “in theory” version of this. There’s many examples where struggling Franchises like the Jets have coaches and regimes that don’t see your 3 year plan through.

Namely, Macc’s choice of a HC could torpedo them both. He can’t pick players, what’s makes you think he can pick coaches?


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Year 5!  The perfect time to commence your 3 year plan!

[ZachEY]

15 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Got there before JN did alriiiiight. Here’s your trophy.

Not seeing a trophy... pls advise.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

9 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Not seeing a trophy... pls advise.

It's a very small trophy.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

Unspoken?  

 

[JustInFudge]

The only thing attractive about this job, is that this is 1 of 32 in the entire world. 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

There are 32 NFL head coaching jobs in existence. Only a handful are available each year. Most of them come with bad rosters and some of the come with existing GM. 

My point is that I don't think many coaches are going to pass up a relatively rare opportunity for this reason.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

 

That’s not accurate.


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I love ya but.....

[carlito1171]

This is why the Jets will be in purgatory for years to come if we don’t completely clean house....

Mac will get fired in a few years......then the new GM will fire the new HC to bring in his own guy....then that GM will get fired....rinse and repeat 

[Paradis]

56 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Again, not accurate. You’re pitching the “in theory” version of this. There’s many examples where struggling Franchises like the Jets have coaches and regimes that don’t see your 3 year plan through.

Namely, Macc’s choice of a HC could torpedo them both. He can’t pick players, what’s makes you think he can pick coaches?


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see above ^

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I love ya but.....

Imagine a scenario where he picks a DC to be the new HC (and the offense predictably struggle) + his LT deluxe round 1 pick is Greg Robinson 2.0 + our FA signings are forgettable and we're back 5-11 this time next year... 

Not a far fetched scenario at all..

And macc still gets 3 more years - with his seat as warm as it is?

Nope. Won't happen - not in New York.... produce, or die. 

[Paradis]

20 minutes ago, JiF said:

Unspoken?  

 

OK OK!! So it's not unspoken lol yeeesh 

I haven't seen it personally talked about much here. Guess i should read the beat sheets more. 

[Paradis]

17 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

There are 32 NFL head coaching jobs in existence. Only a handful are available each year. Most of them come with bad rosters and some of the come with existing GM. 

My point is that I don't think many coaches are going to pass up a relatively rare opportunity for this reason.

You'd be wrong, (IMO)

You don't get a ton of kicks at the can. A good HC candidate picks and choses his opportunity. Every year there's a handful of teams who would love court someone like Shaw lets say for argument sake. For good candidates? I'd say it's the other way around, there's always going to be a job available... they can afford to be picky. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

You'd be wrong, (IMO)

You don't get a ton of kicks at the can. A good HC candidate picks and choses his opportunity. Every year there's a handful of teams who would love court someone like Shaw lets say for argument sake. For good candidates? I'd say it's the other way around, there's always going to be a job available... they can afford to be picky. 

Just looking at last year, of the 7 open coaching spots only one also had a new GM.

titans - vrabel - exiting gm
giants - shurmur - new gm
lions - patricia - existing gm
cardinals - wilks - existing gm
raiders - gruden - existing gm
bears - nagy - existing gm
colts - reich - existing gm

[Jetsplayer21]

3 hours ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

Agree completely with last paragraph. Also, when the Johnson’s realize mac is horrible, and fire him in Jan of 2020, what kind of gm is going to want to come here with a HC he Didn't pick, who already has the ear of owners, ect.. A John izdik type of gm?? the guy pretending to be ok with Rex just to get the job, but who sabotaged him by stripping the roster for 1 yr in hopes he could fire rex and then look like a hero with a huge cap to play with. Which essentially he gave to Mac

[BigRy56]

I don't think it would be painted to the incoming HC that the GM is on a short leash. I think if Mac stays then these 2 will be tied together for their NYJ careers. I don't see a scenario where we hire a head coach in 2019 then fire the GM/hire a new one in 2020. The new GM would want to bring in his guy.

If Mac survives this offseason, he's here for a couple more years barring another very disastrous season IMO.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

1000% agreed which is why I made this post in the "Mac is safe" thread:

On 11/13/2018 at 10:25 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

The lack of logic here is astounding and pretty much ensures we won't get a top HC candidate. The Johnson are buffoons.

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

Beyond what the roster suggests we do about a guy who’s paid millions to draft and manage FA (literally that's his job).. 

The unspoken problem here is the impact keeping him has on our coaching search. What a attractive candidates are going to take a job with a team who’s GM is on a short leash? Job security for the HC is compromised if a GM is another bad draft away from getting tossed.

IF you’re a HC candidate, do you trust this roster and the GM’s ability to flesh it out enough to put your future in his hands? Is this roster really just a “coach away” from being competitive?

Every GM is on a short leash in a sense.  There is no guarantee that whichever team a hot candidate goes to will be more stable long term.

[56mehl56]

3 hours ago, Freemanm said:

It took me a while but I kind of agree. When Macc came in he had a huge amount of cap space and high draft picks. He constantly talks about the future. More than 4 years later, I think we have the right to ask when that "future" becomes now. Getting first round draft picks right is easy, especially when the Jets get the #6 pick or higher - I could have drafted Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams. But he has been awful beyond the first round. 

He knows the team has huge holes to fill in the offensive line and doesn't have the ability to pressure a QB. He has a ton of room under the cap, yet all he does in free agency is bottom feed, hoping he'll get good value out of either a washed up or undrafted player. Of course, there's the exception of Trumaine Johnson, but adding him alone is obviously not enough, plus he looks kind of over the hill now. 

Yep , how about Jamarcus Russell,  Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich , Tim Couch ,  Rick Mirer. And these are just the colossal busts , there are tons more so to say its easy to get it right is absurd.

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

see above ^

Imagine a scenario where he picks a DC to be the new HC (and the offense predictably struggle) + his LT deluxe round 1 pick is Greg Robinson 2.0 + our FA signings are forgettable and we're back 5-11 this time next year... 

Not a far fetched scenario at all..

And macc still gets 3 more years - with his seat as warm as it is?

Nope. Won't happen - not in New York.... produce, or die. 

After the Rex and Idzik debacle, I just really doubt that he gets anything less than three years.  I'm not saying I agree...in fact, I think the dude deserves to be shot into the sun, but I just think there is no way we ever pin a HC on a new GM ever again.  That means for better or worse, if we let Maccagnan pick a new coach, he's tied to that guy for AT LEAST 3-4 years.

[Paradis]

29 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

After the Rex and Idzik debacle, I just really doubt that he gets anything less than three years.  I'm not saying I agree...in fact, I think the dude deserves to be shot into the sun, but I just think there is no way we ever pin a HC on a new GM ever again.  That means for better or worse, if we let Maccagnan pick a new coach, he's tied to that guy for AT LEAST 3-4 years.

Oh no i agree. We will not see a GM again, shackled to the last regime's HC....

no, I'm talking about a scenario where that coach is 1 and done. That's the fear I would have as HC candidate... how sure am I that ownership won't burn this whole thing to the ground in 2020 if Macc's blunders continue and I don't get Darnold performing right away at the level expected by NY/Johnsons...

What you're preaching is the best laid plans, but i'm saying the earth beneath us is salted. heavily.