Joe Thomas: Darnold is a Bust

[bealeb319]

Dang could we see the kid take a clean snap before we write him off?

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[CanadienJetsFan]

Could we stop caring what anyone affiliated to Browns say?

 

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Could we stop caring what anyone affiliated to Browns say?

 

@Villain The Foe you heard the man. Gtfo.

[Creepy Lurker]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

There is like zero doubt in my mind that Darnold is and will be a significantly better QB than Mayfield. Darnold is the victim of inept coaching and devastating injuries to offense depleting a roster that was already significantly lacking talent. If Sunday's game showed anything is that Darnold is likely better than we thought because the whole offense is pathetic and McCown looked worse than Darnold. He had one very bad game. Yet we start throwing out the bust word. Pure troll post by the original poster, he is just looking to provoke Jets fans who are already devastated by the season.

My only doubt about Sam is because of the situation he is in with no end in sight. We will most likely ruin him if drastic change isn’t made. Or he’ll leave this toxic sh*thole and really catch fire elsewhere when he’s only 25-26. In that event, I follow and root for him either way while I repeat “shame” to the Jets like in Game of Thrones and ring a bell. 

[NYs Stepchild]

8 hours ago, GreenWhite said:

It shows Joe Thomas’s opinion is as good as anyone on TV.

By next year at this time everyone on this board will see the truth about Samchez. 

Trent Dilfner's mistake shows that Joe Thomas' opinion is as good as anyone on TV? 

Is this an example of your analytical M.O. ? Did you use similar methods to evaluate Darnold? 

Are you sure you're not on pain killers?

Do you realize that this Bleacher report clip is actually from TMZ? Nice find. How long were you searching for a negative Darnold report?

[mphtrilogy]

Joe Thomas gets added to the long ignore list.. crap statement and anything else he says cannot be trusted.

[ZachEY]

8 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I ate a taco today.

What kind?  I had al pastor

[Savage69]

9 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

So when is Nick Mangold going to come on and say Baker Mayfield is a bust and if it wasn’t for that Atlanta Flacons game, they would be calling him a bust sooner. 

Oh, he won’t. Because he’s not a dumbass lol.

I’m going to let you fellow miserable QB starved fans in on a secret..it takes 4 years to find out if a QB is going to be great. 

Dak was beast in year one, RG3 was a beast in year one. Derek Carr was good until .. now.

Peyton Manning wasn’t, Aikman wasnt. Trubisky wasn’t, Goff wasnt. 

 

It takes 4 years to see where you are.

Most but not all Marino was really good as a rookie as was Russell Wilson etc It also helps to be in the right situation which Donald isn't at the moment..

[FTL Jet Fan]

10 hours ago, GreenWhite said:

The same was said about Geno and Sanchez.

The only thing Darnold has going for him is his age and the fact that Todd Bowles is the worst football coach in America.

Do you have nothing better to do than be a troll, must be a Dolphins fan. Can I curse just once please, this guy needs to hear a few choice words. 

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Most but not all Marino was really good as a rookie as was Russell Wilson etc It also helps to be in the right situation which Donald isn't at the moment..

I can agree with that. There are some exceptions.

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Most but not all Marino was really good as a rookie as was Russell Wilson etc It also helps to be in the right situation which Donald isn't at the moment..

I can agree with that. There are some exceptions.

[JoJoTownsell1]

From what I have seen my top 4 are:

1- Darnold

2- Mayfield (I was flipping between Rosen/Mayfield at 2 during the draft process, but Mayfield has eased some of my concerns)

3- Rosen

4- Allen

 

But it's year 1. RG3 won rookie of the year over Luck in year 1. Jared Goff looked awful in  year 1. Josh Allen, for all his faults, has looked like an elite talent at QB. If he can work on his accuracy he can easily be the  best of the bunch. I wouldn't bet on it, but it wouldn't shock me. Also, all 4 teams these QBs are playing on are bad. None of these guys stumbled into a very good offense. 

[The Crusher]

7 hours ago, LES said:

The consensus here is you're a douche. Unfortunately they're right.

No personal attacks please. Thanks

[sackdance]

10 hours ago, varjet said:

 

I think Darnold can be good, but if he is not supported with the right players and coaches, he will bust.  

Rare is the quarterback that can be good with subpar personnel and inept coaching. Not sure who it could be - and frankly, the Jets absolute worst game was the one game Darnold didn’t play. 

The kid has a high ceiling. This thread is silly.

[ChuckkieB]

I guess playing for the Browns eventually saps your intelligence in addition to breaking your soul. 

These QB's have played HALF A FRIGGIN' SEASON!!!!!!!!!!  

A realistic comparison of this QB draft class cannot be made until at least a few years down the road.  All this other nonsense is the so called  journalistic community and talking heads chiming in to pretend their opinion means something.  All meaningless drivel.

 

 

[Adoni Beast]

I liked Joe Thomas as a player. I feel bad his PTSD concussion symptoms are appearing so soon though.

[Augustiniak]

bad timing to say this since mccown looked awful with the same crappy offense that darnold has.  it would have more credibility if the jets won handily vs the bills and mccown looked good.

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

The real danger here is that the Jets transform this cant miss QB into a bust.

They can do it.

There it is kids! The man who wins the thread . Can’t judge either yet but if I had to guess the Jets 100% F this up. Unfair to judge Sam or Baker but totally fair to judge the Jets and they couldn’t of handled it worse so far. 

Personally only thing I’m sure of is the Jets wound have broken Baker quicker. Emotionally little fella similar to J Adams and the Jets have turned him into a mess in under two years 

Sam  has the perfect temperament for this game but is possibly in the worse situation he can be at this point.

So for all the wrong reasons  Joe Thomas sadly is probably right. The thing is if Sam and Baker switched teams and talent then we could just switch the names on the thread. 

Problem is the Jets and it has zero to do with the  QB the Browns picked. 

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

9 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

The thing is if Sam and Baker switched teams and talent then we could just switch the names on the thread. 

What’s the difference between Goff/Mahomes/Mayfield and Darnold? Teams and talent or projected good in the first place? The other three had FO’s highest QBASE projection in each of the last three drafts. Darnold was a turnover machine who only started two years and declined from the first to the second. Are these maybe bad things or are we just gonna stick with the creepy buttsniffing fanboy take of blaming the Jets for ‘ruining’ sweet, sweet Sam?

[Thai Jet]

6 hours ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Not to those of us who actually saw every game Mark played at USC, and were shocked - stunned really, that the Jets took him so high.  That 2008 team Mark QB'd was loaded with All Americans all over the field.  He was a game manager, nothing more.  

You have to be ignorant about football and the quarterback position to compare Sam and Mark, in any way....unless  you enjoy sounding stupid.  I call it like I see it too.  

Sanchez should have stayed at Troy another year. He subbed in the Arizona game as a Soph and looked terrible. The next year was his only year as a starter. I remember Pete telling him he needed to stay for his Senior year too.

  During workouts Rex fell in love with him stating that "he has the arm, he can make all the throws" . The rest is history. 

[Savage69]

16 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

What’s the difference between Goff/Mahomes/Mayfield and Darnold? Teams and talent or projected good in the first place? The other three had FO’s highest QBASE projection in each of the last three drafts. Darnold was a turnover machine who only started two years and declined from the first to the second. Are these maybe bad things or are we just gonna stick with the creepy buttsniffing fanboy take of blaming the Jets for ‘ruining’ sweet, sweet Sam?

Marino went from 37 tds and 23 picks to 17 tds and 23 picks his last year.. He keep the picks even but was down 20 td's..

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Marino went from 37 tds and 23 picks to 17 tds and 23 picks his last year.. He keep the picks even but was down 20 td's..

Marino started like 50 games in college and I’m sure his completion percentage adjusted for era was at least as good. The last season decline would have hurt his projection a little but he’s way ahead. And really, we’re gonna compare to a sample of one and make that one Dan Marino?

[The Crusher]

26 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

What’s the difference between Goff/Mahomes/Mayfield and Darnold? Teams and talent or projected good in the first place? The other three had FO’s highest QBASE projection in each of the last three drafts. Darnold was a turnover machine who only started two years and declined from the first to the second. Are these maybe bad things or are we just gonna stick with the creepy buttsniffing fanboy take of blaming the Jets for ‘ruining’ sweet, sweet Sam?

So is your point Sam is the rawest of the four guys you listed and had the least amount experience entering the NFL ? If it is I 100% agree. 

For that reason the team should have done everything they could to help him acclimate. No, not teach him how to play football but put him in a position to succeed or just let him sit till you could. 

I apologize if my buttsniffing fanboy routine is creeping you out butt to be fair I really liked the kid from day one. Yet, would have been just as a big fan of any of the QBs we picked because we sorta been little bit lacking at that position as of late. 

So please feel free to scream at the top of your lungs how much more you understand the current situation than the rest of us and have a wonderful thanksgiving. 

 

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

What’s the difference between Goff/Mahomes/Mayfield and Darnold? Teams and talent or projected good in the first place? The other three had FO’s highest QBASE projection in each of the last three drafts. Darnold was a turnover machine who only started two years and declined from the first to the second. Are these maybe bad things or are we just gonna stick with the creepy buttsniffing fanboy take of blaming the Jets for ‘ruining’ sweet, sweet Sam?

I'm going with the latter personally.

[CTM]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

So is your point Sam is the rawest of the four guys you listed and had the least amount experience entering the NFL ? If it is I 100% agree. 

 

Experience is an issue as to whether or not he will ever develop, the other problem with the lack of experience is that it leaves you short on data to figure out if the real Sam is more like the turnover machine last year in college (and first year in NFL) or more like the kid you saw in the Rose bowl that you've been fapping to for 2 years. It's a riskier proposition

[MDL_JET]

9 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I'd say that it's way to early to make that call either way, but for the sake of discussion, that I wish I got to see Sam with Chubb, Njoku, Cleveland's O-Line, Defense, and their schedule.  Also, I would throw in the fact that Jeremy Bates is a worse Offensive Coordinator/Coach than the two guys fired mid-season by Cleveland and that Darnold's best game was 5 weeks after the one that Thomas mentioned, so he obviously isn't watching him that closely.

I was a gigantic Mayfield fan.  Maybe the second biggest one on this forum (next to Villian, of course).  I'm not surprised by his success.  There was a point in the draft process where he was my QB1.  It only flipped between him and Sam.  I think they're both going to have very good careers.  I'm not gonna sh*t on Mayfield, and Thomas shouldn't have sh*t on Sam, especially when he, of all people, should know what it's like to be a player in a really bad situation when it comes to coaching and the talent around you.  I don't really know why he did it, but I lost a lot of respect for a guy that I loved and held in high regard because of it.  Oh well.  

 

9 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Be honest. With the benefit of hindsight and you could select Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield who do you take? 

What he said ?

Way too early to even be confident in saying ones better then the other. And too hard to judge considering the drastic differences of their situations. 

I don’t think any rookie QB has looked like a total bust thus far. And that’s not bad considering the terrible rosters each one has around them aside Mayfield. 

[Bleedin Green]

Wow, a former career Brown is trying to defend the Browns.  It's obviously a totally impartial opinion right there.

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Experience is an issue as to whether or not he will ever develop, the other problem with the lack of experience is that it leaves you short on data to figure out if the real Sam is more like the turnover machine last year in college (and first year in NFL) or more like the kid you saw in the Rose bowl that you've been fapping to for 2 years. It's a riskier proposition

Agreed. To be honest I’ve stopped fapping after the Buffalo game. 

Yet his chance of succeeding went down the minute this organization drafted him. Might have been dreadful before that, but no way a better prepared team couldn’t have help the kid. 

Never said Sam was can’t miss prospect, simply stated the Jets couldn’t have done much worse job with him. If your point is it really doesn’t matter the kid would have sucked anyways? Then I honestly have not way of knowing that but I do know the Jets are currently doing it wrong. 

[Savage69]

24 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Marino started like 50 games in college and I’m sure his completion percentage adjusted for era was at least as good. The last season decline would have hurt his projection a little but he’s way ahead. And really, we’re gonna compare to a sample of one and make that one Dan Marino?

What some don't take into account is the talented players lost to the Draft every year in college it's not always on the QB..

[Butterfield]

Joe Thomas will be right if there aren't major changes coming.

[CTM]

5 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Agreed. To be honest I’ve stopped fapping after the Buffalo game. 

Yet his chance of succeeding went down the minute this organization drafted him. Might have been dreadful before that, but no way a better prepared team couldn’t have help the kid. 

Never said Sam was can’t miss prospect, simply stated the Jets couldn’t have done much worse job with him. If your point is it really doesn’t matter the kid would have sucked anyways? Then I honestly have not way of knowing that but I do know the Jets are currently doing it wrong. 

No, my point is that the lack of college games to analyze makes it harder to project accurately.

To put it in terms you will understand, imagine you were waddling down the street and came across a giant bag of still piping hot french fries lying on the ground. You stick your fat nose in the bag and take a whiff, smells good. But are you ready to say yet that these will be the best french fries you've ever eaten? Probably not, now we will suspend disbelief here for a moment and pretend that rather then inhale the entire bag as quickly as possible, you stuck your paw in and pulled out a singular fry. You hold up to the light to take in it's form, is it shoe sting, crinkle cut, steak? You analyze it's texture in between your fingers and try and discern the level of fat and salt content. At this point you still aren't likely to be able say these are going to be the best ever but you have a bit more information than you did before to make that guess.  This is where Sam is at, a fry you've smelled and seen and touched but not tasted.  With Baker or guys with more experience, you've had the luxury of eating a fry or two before having to predict where it will rank on your all time list of frys

Additionally, the lack of experience at the college level puts him way behind guys  like Baker Mayfield. It's hard to make up for that time. Luckily Sam is very young, however if it takes him 4-5 years instead of 1-2 to really put it together he'll be coming off his rookie contract by the time he's good.

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, CTM said:

No, my point is that the lack of college games to analyze makes it harder to be project accurately.

To put it in terms you will understand, imagine you were waddling down the street and came across a giant bag of still piping hot french fries lying on the ground. You stick your fat nose in the bag and stake a whiff, smells good. But are you ready to say that yet that these will be the best french fries you've ever eaten? Probably not, now we will suspend disbelief here for a moment and pretend that rather then inhale the entire bag as quickly as possible, you stuck your paw in and pulled out a singular fry. You hold up to the light to take in it's form, is it shoe sting, crinkle cut, steak? You analyze it's texture in between your fingers and try and discern the level of fat and salt content. At this point you still aren't likely to be able say these are going to be the best ever but you have a bit more information than you did before to make that guess.  This is where Sam is at, a fry you've smelled and seen and touched but not tasted.  With Baker or guys with more experience, you've had the luxury of eating a fry or two before having to predict where it will rank on your all time list of frys

Additionally, the lack of experience at the college level puts him way behind guys  like Baker Mayfield. It's hard to make up for that time. Luckily Sam is very young, however if it takes him 4-5 years instead of 1-2 to really put it together he'll be coming off his rookie contract by the time he's good.

Nice.

[maury77]

If anyone has the PFF advanced subscription, you could see the game by game grades for the rookie QBs. I am willing to bet that the highest grades this season were Darnold's games against Denver and Indianapolis. He is going to have a lot of variance in his play at this point because A) he is a rookie; b) he is a very young rookie QB ; and C) He has relatively little experience playing the QB position compared to Mayfield. 

Oh and Joe Thomas can go eat a sh!t sandwich. 

[Freemanm]

I think the speaker here is a bit biased. Anyway, Mayfield and Darnold are both the real deals. Why doesn't Thomas talk about the games against Indy and Dnver and how Darnold threw for over 300 yeards against the Browns?

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

I think the speaker here is a bit biased. Anyway, Mayfield and Darnold are both the real deals. Why doesn't Thomas talk about the games against Indy and Dnver and how Darnold threw for over 300 yeards against the Browns?

He threw for 300 against Miami the week before, not Browns.