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Joe Thomas: Darnold is a Bust

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13 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Word vomit and cry about it.

I have asked this question before and I didn't get an answer because there isn't one but here it is again. If you're teaching five-step drops and play action when everybody else is doing installs, then when are you doing installs? Keeping up with the Bradys is a 24/7 job. This 'extra' time when Darnold is gonna learn all the stuff he's already supposed to know is never going to happen except at the expense of doing something else. I cannot make this more practical or concrete. Eight of this season's top ten quarterbacks by DYAR are guys who have been in the league for a DECADE, and the brilliant plan here is for Darnold not only to outwork these guys but to do so to the tune of getting from where he is to where he needs to be? 

So what your  saying is we only got ten years left on the rebuild? Not to shabby. Not too shabby at all.  

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21 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Word vomit and cry about it.

I have asked this question before and I didn't get an answer because there isn't one but here it is again. If you're teaching five-step drops and play action when everybody else is doing installs, then when are you doing installs? Keeping up with the Bradys is a 24/7 job. This 'extra' time when Darnold is gonna learn all the stuff he's already supposed to know is never going to happen except at the expense of doing something else. I cannot make this more practical or concrete. Eight of this season's top ten quarterbacks by DYAR are guys who have been in the league for a DECADE, and the brilliant plan here is for Darnold not only to outwork these guys but to do so to the tune of getting from where he is to where he needs to be? 

The bottom 4 are all rookies too

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19 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Word vomit and cry about it.

I have asked this question before and I didn't get an answer because there isn't one but here it is again. If you're teaching five-step drops and play action when everybody else is doing installs, then when are you doing installs? Keeping up with the Bradys is a 24/7 job. This 'extra' time when Darnold is gonna learn all the stuff he's already supposed to know is never going to happen except at the expense of doing something else. I cannot make this more practical or concrete. Eight of this season's top ten quarterbacks by DYAR are guys who have been in the league for a DECADE, and the brilliant plan here is for Darnold not only to outwork these guys but to do so to the tune of getting from where he is to where he needs to be? 

I don’t see how you haven’t gotten an answer. You act like he’s not an absolutely football obsessed gym rat who has gotten better at every knock on him as years pass. Slow release/Long wind up? It’s fast as bullet now. Fumbling issue? He doesn’t fumble now. He get it taken care of. 

He’s going to have a long summer sitting back and correcting things he sees on film and he’s going to be just fine. You are scrutinizing the process without acknowledging what can and will be done during the process. Anything he’s not comfortable with always gets ironed out. That’s how all perfectionist are. They pressed to find ways to master their field of work. Now if it was some other guy who needed work on certain asspects then I would feel iffy about it.

Not Sam.

Aside from that, 5 step drops and such aren’t something I’m crying over. Does it need to be nailed? Yeah but 5 step drops..? Really? This is what you are calling him “Special Ed Sam” for?

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3 minutes ago, CTM said:

The bottom 4 are all rookies too

Yeah, Mayfield obviously being the exception. He's gonna make their next guy look brilliant and Darnold is gonna get our next guy fired.

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7 hours ago, Warfish said:

Yes.

Early returns are poor.  But it's still too early.

What did you think of Jared Goff after his first year?

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Sam's looked great and he's looked bleh at other times. 

If you look back on them, he's played well and been efficient when supported by a strong run game and when afforded time (or at least game planned) to test the field vertically. 

He's struggled when poor snaps or general waffling by our oline has put him under insta pressure, and has thrown a lot of pics late in games in desperation time, borderline hero ball stuff.

It's early but his performance given circumstances has been pretty much what one would have expected...

I'm encouraged by a lot of what he has flashed though and just hope we can scheme guys open or get healthier because we have really asked a lot of him as McCown painfully demonstrated the other day...

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12 hours ago, Bugg said:

Makes me nuts we get the annual Peter King "One coach told me the colleges don't get these offensive players for what we do" (Also how they don't get enough practice, another pile of BS). Why is it you draft a round peg that can do things in a college offense, and then, in the Jets' case,jam him into the square hole of handing off from under center 2-3X a series. The Jets' offense  is not   rocket science. It doesn't feature RPOs.  It doesn't look to do much play action despite being so run heavy; in fact the Jets inexplicably and every week run empty backfields that scream "This is a pass play".  Doesn't appear to have any way for the QB to change the play except burning a timeout. Good teams tailor their offense to what their players can do rather than bemoan what they think they cannot do. 

It's the same stupid stuff the Jets have always been doing over the past 10 years atleast, especially with the empty sets. 

I remember the 2008 season when the Jets played the Raiders and Brian Schottenheimer consistently had Brett Favre throwing out of empty sets and every time Favre would take just a vicious hit right after making the pass. I believe that the Raiders game was the game where Brett got injured and our 2008 season went to sh*t. 

 

The Jets over the years have hired the dumbest morons to manage teams. They've have no creativity whatsoever. As long as the coach is a defensive minded coach, that's all you need to be seriously considered as a HC. And as for the HC hiring the OC, all you need to do is to have a similar philosophy as the HC and you're good to go. It's never about the ability of the players. 

The worst thing of all is, the league has practically handcuffed the defense to the point where it's literally hard NOT to score in this league today, yet the Jets find a way not to be able to ever produce on offense. Here's a stat that I came across today when viewing a video on Andrew Lucks performance of there past 3 games.

The Colts over the last 3 games have averaged 36 points per game. Do you know how ridiculous that is? You want to hear something even more ridiculous? The 36ppg the Colts have average over the last 3 games is only 3rd best in the NFL. THIRD! lol. 

Thats how insane scoring is today and how the NFL has completely castrated the defense...yet the Jets still cant seem to get it right to just consistently score 21-24 points per game. 

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11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It's the same stupid stuff the Jets have always been doing over the past 10 years atleast, especially with the empty sets. 

I remember the 2008 season when the Jets played the Raiders and Brian Schottenheimer consistently had Brett Favre throwing out of empty sets and every time Favre would take just a vicious hit right after making the pass. I believe that the Raiders game was the game where Brett got injured and our 2008 season went to sh*t. 

 

The Jets over the years have hired the dumbest morons to manage teams. They've have no creativity whatsoever. As long as the coach is a defensive minded coach, that's all you need to be seriously considered as a HC. And as for the HC hiring the OC, all you need to do is to have a similar philosophy as the HC and you're good to go. It's never about the ability of the players. 

The worst thing of all is, the league has practically handcuffed the defense to the point where it's literally hard NOT to score in this league today, yet the Jets find a way not to be able to ever produce on offense. Here's a stat that I came across today when viewing a video on Andrew Lucks performance of there past 3 games.

The Colts over the last 3 games have averaged 36 points per game. Do you know how ridiculous that is? You want to hear something even more ridiculous? The 36ppg the Colts have average over the last 3 games is only 3rd best in the NFL. THIRD! lol. 

Thats how insane scoring is today and how the NFL has completely castrated the defense...yet the Jets still cant seem to get it right to just consistently score 21-24 points per game. 

The Colts turnaround coincided with their OL being rebuilt. Give Luck a clean pocket and he’ll tear a team apart.  The jets need to do this for Darnold.  That has to be the focus in the offseason. We don’t need Le’veon Bell. 

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8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

I don’t see how you haven’t gotten an answer. You act like he’s not an absolutely football obsessed gym rat who has gotten better at every knock on him as years pass. 

I’d say the not taking notes in meetings thing was a flag

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On 11/16/2018 at 10:44 PM, 14 in Green said:

Actually he's a first ballot Hall of Fame LT. Probably unanimous. He might know a little more then we do. Just saying....

He is backing the QB on his team versus any other... If the Jets had a LT at all he would say that Darnold is amazing and that Browns screwed up in passing on him

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7 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What did you think of Jared Goff after his first year?

Sam Darnold isn’t Jared Goff, same as he isn’t Peyton Manning.

When your only argument is “but this cherrypicked completely different other guy in other circumstances  on another team with completely different players in another era got over a bad rookie year” you don’t really have an argument.

How Darnold will turn out has 0% to do with Goff or Manning. It has 100% to do with Darnold and this Jets organization.

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16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sam Darnold isn’t Jared Goff, same as he isn’t Peyton Manning.

When your only argument is “but this cherrypicked completely different other guy in other circumstances  on another team with completely different players in another era got over a bad rookie year” you don’t really have an argument.

How Darnold will turn out has 0% to do with Goff or Manning. It has 100% to do with Darnold and this Jets organization.

Of course.  The points about Goff and Peyton were made to show a precedent that really good to HOF QBs have trouble their rookie season.  It doesn't necessarily mean that Darnold is a really good QB.  Just that, even if he is, this season is no surprise.

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10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Of course.  The points about Goff and Peyton were made to show a precedent that really good to HOF QBs have trouble their rookie season.  It doesn't necessarily mean that Darnold is a really good QB.  Just that, even if he is, this season is no surprise.

Except is isn't a precedent.  It's a cherry picked singular example that ignores the dozens of other examples that didn't get better or become great.

Every person knows Darnold COULD still be good.  It's not about potential, it's about the odds.  And citing Goff or Manning ignores the odds, ignores the circumstance differences, front office differences, coaching differences, supporting cash differences, and individual person differences in an overly simplistic logical fallacy argument.

Darnold is Darnold and the Jets are the Jets, we'd all be better off if people stopped making Manning (or Goff) references to Darnold, since they have 0% to do with each other beyond making the incredibly obvious to all "potential" point.

Pet peeve, sorry.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I’d say the not taking notes in meetings thing was a flag

Do you ever get anything right?  It has been stated numerous times, by teammates and coaches that he is focused and taking notes in meetings, from day one.

“Bridgewater said of Darnold, the No. 3 overall pick, "I’m no talent-evaluator; I’m just a quarterback. I’d say that this guy comes to work every day. He has his hard hat on, he’s focused, he’s sitting in those meeting rooms and he’s taking notes. He seems like a guy who’s ready to do some great things in this league.”

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Just now, HelenOfTroy said:

Do you ever get anything right?  It has been stated numerous times, by teammates and coaches that he is focused and taking notes in meetings, from day one.

“Bridgewater said of Darnold, the No. 3 overall pick, "I’m no talent-evaluator; I’m just a quarterback. I’d say that this guy comes to work every day. He has his hard hat on, he’s focused, he’s sitting in those meeting rooms and he’s taking notes. He seems like a guy who’s ready to do some great things in this league.”

Hard hat on

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The Colts turnaround coincided with their OL being rebuilt. Give Luck a clean pocket and he’ll tear a team apart.  The jets need to do this for Darnold.  That has to be the focus in the offseason. We don’t need Le’veon Bell. 

Also with Franck Reich being creative with the plays. 

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41 minutes ago, HelenOfTroy said:

Do you ever get anything right?  It has been stated numerous times, by teammates and coaches that he is focused and taking notes in meetings, from day one.

“Bridgewater said of Darnold, the No. 3 overall pick, "I’m no talent-evaluator; I’m just a quarterback. I’d say that this guy comes to work every day. He has his hard hat on, he’s focused, he’s sitting in those meeting rooms and he’s taking notes. He seems like a guy who’s ready to do some great things in this league.”

Anyways, all I was saying is what Aikman was told by Bates. Seems like there’s conflicting reports, but it’s tough to see the OC lying about something like that.

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30 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Anyways, all I was saying is what Aikman was told by Bates. Seems like there’s conflicting reports, but it’s tough to see the OC lying about something like that.

Aikman is a Darnold fan. Like Romo. Like Dilfer. Are there any former QBs turned analyst that haven't lauded Sam?

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Except is isn't a precedent.  It's a cherry picked singular example that ignores the dozens of other examples that didn't get better or become great.

Every person knows Darnold COULD still be good.  It's not about potential, it's about the odds.  And citing Goff or Manning ignores the odds, ignores the circumstance differences, front office differences, coaching differences, supporting cash differences, and individual person differences in an overly simplistic logical fallacy argument.

Darnold is Darnold and the Jets are the Jets, we'd all be better off if people stopped making Manning (or Goff) references to Darnold, since they have 0% to do with each other beyond making the incredibly obvious to all "potential" point.

Pet peeve, sorry.

I'm not saying it tells us anything about whether or not Darnold will be great.  Just that there are great QBs who had a rough first season.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sam Darnold isn’t Jared Goff, same as he isn’t Peyton Manning.

When your only argument is “but this cherrypicked completely different other guy in other circumstances  on another team with completely different players in another era got over a bad rookie year” you don’t really have an argument.

How Darnold will turn out has 0% to do with Goff or Manning. It has 100% to do with Darnold and this Jets organization.

The last two words of this post are terrifying! 

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26 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm not saying it tells us anything about whether or not Darnold will be great.  Just that there are great QBs who had a rough first season.

Rather than saying the prior experiences indicate anything about Sam. What they would tend to reflect is that you need more sample and these QBs need more reps before you can really tell anything meaningful. 

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Anyways, all I was saying is what Aikman was told by Bates. Seems like there’s conflicting reports, but it’s tough to see the OC lying about something like that.

Link?

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3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Hard hat on

You know the worst thing about sh*tty quarterbacks? sh*tty quarterbacks always want credit for some sh*t they supposed to do. A sh*tty quarterback will brag about some sh*t a normal man just does. A sh*tty quarterback will say some sh*t like 'I take notes in meetings.' You're supposed to, you dumb mother****er. What kind of ignorant sh*t is that? 'I ain't never been stuck in a revolving door.' What do you want, a cookie? You're not supposed to get stuck in a revolving door, you low expectation-having mother****er.

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On 11/15/2018 at 9:22 PM, GreenWhite said:

The same was said about Geno and Sanchez.

The only thing Darnold has going for him is his age and the fact that Todd Bowles is the worst football coach in America.

Sounds like your name is really GenoWhite. I'm not an advocate of Todd Bowles but I have seen worse over my lifetime.

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I'm not saying it tells us anything about whether or not Darnold will be great.  Just that there are great QBs who had a rough first season.

Which has absolutely no relevance nor effect on weather DARNOLD will have a horrible first season then be great.

So if something has no relevance nor effect......why do people consistently bring it up as if it's a supporting argument for Darnold's future?

Darnold's future is in Darnold's hands, and our front office. 

What other QB's did on other teams with other coaches in other eras means.....alot to them, I'm sure......but means nothing to us.

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Just now, Warfish said:

Which has absolutely no relevance nor effect on weather DARNOLD will have a horrible first season then be great.

So if something has no relevance nor effect......why do people consistently bring it up as if it's a supporting argument for Darnold's future?

Darnold's future is in Darnold's hands, and our front office. 

What other QB's did on other teams with other coaches in other eras means.....alot to them, I'm sure......but means nothing to us.

It doesn't support that Darnold will become great.  Goff/Peyton/Elway etc are just examples that support the idea that having a rough first year doesn't necessarily mean the QB is bad.  

As for "in other eras", Goff is in this era.  I think Wentz wasn't great his first year either btw.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It doesn't support that Darnold will become great.  Goff/Peyton/Elway etc are just examples that support the idea that having a rough first year doesn't necessarily mean the QB is bad.  

As for "in other eras", Goff is in this era.  I think Wentz wasn't great his first year either btw.

Wentz was -12% DVOA in 2016. Mayfield is at -12.7% now.

Rookie seasons tend to be pretty meaningless and after that guys tend to play to their projections. Goff was the best quarterback in 2016 per Lewis/Parcells/QBASE and has had two elite seasons after an awful rookie year. Mahomes had the highest projection in 2017 and is the MVP after not playing his first season. These examples kind of tend to show that it’s not about starting or sitting or changing coaches as much as it is about the quarterback. 

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The easiest thing to say about any QB is to say they will bust. Why because most do. So many things have to go right for a QB to become successful. Right team, right offensive system, solid talent around and stay healthy.

Take it with a grain of salt and just watch the progression.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Sam Darnold isn’t Jared Goff, same as he isn’t Peyton Manning.

When your only argument is “but this cherrypicked completely different other guy in other circumstances  on another team with completely different players in another era got over a bad rookie year” you don’t really have an argument.

How Darnold will turn out has 0% to do with Goff or Manning. It has 100% to do with Darnold and this Jets organization.

OK, I'll play. Tell me who Peyton Manning's skill players were his rookie season? Are you honestly going to disregard that fact? Manning had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. Darnold has Quincy Enunwa, sometimes, and Crowell. It gets really old criticizing a rookie when he has inferior talent around him. I like Baker Mayfield, but he will not be as good as Darnold once we give the kid some talent, which Mayfield already has at the RB and WR positions. 

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45 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

OK, I'll play. Tell me who Peyton Manning's skill players were his rookie season?

Different ones that Darnold has now.

45 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Are you honestly going to disregard that fact?

What fact, that the two QB's don't share a single thing and hence comparisons of them are complete bunk?

45 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Manning had Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison. Darnold has Quincy Enunwa, sometimes, and Crowell.

And?

45 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

It gets really old criticizing a rookie when he has inferior talent around him.

Pointing out lazy arguments and faulty "logic" isn't criticism of Darnold.

Darnold will be what Darnold, the Jets players, and the Jets Organization makes him.  At no point have I attempted to predict that.  

45 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I like Baker Mayfield, but he will not be as good as Darnold once we give the kid some talent, which Mayfield already has at the RB and WR positions. 

What model is your crystal ball?  Just ask'in, since you seem so assured of what the future holds.

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18 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What did you think of Jared Goff after his first year?

What did you think of Mark Sanchez after his first year ?

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