Manish: Mike Maccagnan will chose the next head coach

[playtowinthegame]

49 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

So the vaunted personnel guy doesn't even pick the personnel? This team never fails to amaze.

He can't make ex-offensive coordinators the scape goat for a draft bust. That is a lame attempt to deflect responsibility. Mike Maccagnan has a draft board, and he had to have had ArDarius Stewart ranked close to that selection in order for him to be swayed by John Morton to select him. Bottom line Mac's the GM, and he's most responsible for the selections. 

[Saul Goodman]

This is would be a horrible decision. Maccagnan can’t draft, and left his franchise QB out to dry in his rookie season. But whatever, I’m not going to bitch about it any more. 

[56mehl56]

29 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Hmm, who should i listen to the guy who has been following a guy around all year and watching hundreds of hours of tape or a coach that sees a youtube highlight package with bad music pounding the table for a player...hmmm...who do i go with?

In the end it is the gms call so if he listened to or tried to please coachs that is 100% on him as the gm

In most orgs that is true, is it for the Jets with their messed up reporting structure ?

[HessStation]

In the thread that confirms the Jets suckage for another 5 years we learn Tom’s still alive no coincidence 

[56mehl56]

29 minutes ago, JiF said:

No clue.  Hated that pick and wasnt Morton a WR coach in New Orleans before he became the OC?  Bizarre.  Because even the way he was using him made no sense.  He was giving him end arounds and reverses like he was some dynamic playmaker with the ball in his hands.  And he wasnt.  

There were certainly other oddities with player usage , they tried to make Forte a between the tackles back and rarely used him spread out or own screens. Having been in the Saints system and how they utilized backs and wr's its puzzling how the Jets ran that offense , makes one wonder how much Morton was also handcuffed

[flgreen]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

These guys work their entire lives to get a shot at being a head coach and taking the wrong job can end your career. Four out of our last five head coaches are literally no longer employed by the league anymore, and for three of them—Herm, Mangini, and Rex—a lot of that has to do with the stink of getting fired from this godforsaken franchise at one point. No way does a guy like DeFillippo entrust his life’s work to Mike Maccagnan and the Johnson bros.

Happy to see that @Maxman let you out of his trunk.  Was getting concerned with the cold and all

[Jetsplayer21]

 

If Mac is not fired along with Bowles, I’m done. Look at the lack of talent on this team. Do we have major injuries as the excuse why we stink so bad 3rd straight yr? Nope. Bowles is a bad HC, but this is more on Mac than Bowles

[Fantasy Island]

Mac didn't get Sam protection, and the one lineman he did get should have "Wild Thing" playing every time he snaps.   How in the immortal h3)) are the Johnsons even considering retaining MacCagnan? If I were Sam, I would hold out until the OL is replaced.  Got a $100 mil? Spend it on giving Sam time to throw and some targets to throw to.   

Keeping Mac is a poor idea.

[Fantasy Island]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

 

If Mac is not fired along with Bowles, I’m done. Look at the lack of talent on this team. Do we have major injuries as the excuse why we stink so bad 3rd straight yr? Nope. Bowles is a bad HC, but this is more on Mac than Bowles

Preach

[TJ]

Mac is at least as bad at his job as Bowles is at HC.  Terrible news.  Hopefully the moron, Mehta is wrong. ? 

[BroadwayRay]

Ya know, this is a cultural thing with the Jets, so it's not going to go away easily. The Jets have a long history of spineless GMs who repeatedly caved to idiot coaches. Mike Hickey let Joe Walton pick players like Roger Vick. Terry Bradway was an idiot by himself, so he didn't need the help of coaches, but I'm sure he deferred to them anyway. Mike Tannenbaum openly admitted he let Rex make his own picks, and Mehta says in the podcast that Rex's infatuation with Quinton Coples was the reason we picked him in the first round, when most sane people (myself included) wanted the Jets to take Melvin Ingram. Now we have Macc, who seems to be nothing more than a glorified order-taker. I'd say they should let him take charge so his vision takes precedent, but I doubt he has a vision.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

sat here for a few minutes arguing with myself about whether it was better to have no one in charge or one known idiot in charge, realized the debate was a perfect metaphor for being a Jets fan, decided to take a sick day

You know that phenomenon where you take a week-long vacation and you feel super-refreshed, then you go back into the office on Monday and the maisma of spiritual death in the place instantly overcomes you and you feel like you were never on vacation? This just happened to me when I read Pac’s posts.

[56mehl56]

Just now, Jetsplayer21 said:

 

If Mac is not fired along with Bowles, I’m done. Look at the lack of talent on this team. Do we have major injuries as the excuse why we stink so bad 3rd straight yr? Nope. Bowles is a bad HC, but this is more on Mac than Bowles

Does that include just the offensive side of the ball, because there were certainly lots of draft capital and FA money spent on Bowles D. Again I can buy a top end filet mignon but If I overcook it on the grill do I blame the butcher. At some point you'd figured Todd would learn to cook.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

You know that phenomenon where you take a week-long vacation and you feel super-refreshed, then you go back into the office on Monday and the maisma of spiritual death in the place instantly overcomes you and you feel like you were never on vacation? This just happened to me when I read Pac’s posts.

LOL it's good to have you back.

[56mehl56]

4 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Mac didn't get Sam protection, and the one lineman he did get should have "Wild Thing" playing every time he snaps.   How in the immortal h3)) are the Johnsons even considering retaining MacCagnan? If I were Sam, I would hold out until the OL is replaced.  Got a $100 mil? Spend it on giving Sam time to throw and some targets to throw to.   

Keeping Mac is a poor idea.

He's been snapping with broken fingers, the idiot HC needed to sit him 3 weeks prior but didn't. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

I'm telling you right now to bookmark this. Mike Maccagan  will NOT SURVIVE 3-13 in 2018. I'd be willing to bet no GM or coach has ever been given a 5th year while the previous 4 years they compiled a 23-41 record with the most recent one being the worst at 3-13. That is 23 wins divided by 64 games and equates exactly to a winning percentage of 35.9375%. That's an average of less tha 6 wins per season. The Jets are not trending upwards, in fact the are trending in a downward trajectory. Why would ownership want stability when those are the results after 4 years? Do you really need a larger sample size to determine this regime is not going to produce a championship team. Ownership has given them more than enough time. Times up!

I’m not disagreeing with you that we’d be better off with a new GM.  I just don’t think it’s going to happen.  But we will see. 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, 56mehl56 said:

So what about those statements are incorrect. Is speaking the truth throwing someone under the bus ?

Its no surprise that Bowles and staff influenced draft picks , its how most organizations work , with the GM having final say.  Because of the Jets wacky hiring and reporting structure Bowles presumably was given more leeway than in most orgs.

Throwing someone under the bus is not lying, it is overallocating blame.

Yes, Bowles unduly influenced the draft picks.  That was the structure.  But Mac was the GM, and he should have stopped bad picks from being made.

And also apparently was the sole decision maker behind some bad picks and signings too.

Let's see if Mac really survives.  

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

Throwing someone under the bus is not lying, it is overallocating blame.

Yes, Bowles unduly influenced the draft picks.  That was the structure.  But Mac was the GM, and he should have stopped bad picks from being made.

And also apparently was the sole decision maker behind some bad picks and signings too.

Let's see if Mac really survives.  

1) Do we know he didn't try ? was he overruled by the owner in deference to Bowles, with the equal reporting structure in place - who knows

2) How do we quantify a bad pick. Is it simply because the player sucks or is it because the CS cannot get the player to work in their scheme.

If Bowles reported to Mac and Mac had hired Bowles , I'd have no problem firing both. Because that's not the case I feel Bowles is by far the worse of the two.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

This is how it should've been from the beginning.

Sometimes people need to grow into a role.  Parcells talks about how he was almost fired from the Giant job when he decided to do it his way.

I believe the power structure was setup so Mac had to defer to Bowles on quite a few things.

Hopefully Mac learned his lesson and drafts the players HE wants now that the new coach will be working for him.  No more excuses.

Anyone who believes Bowles wasn't banging the table for the safeties, the tiny lb,, Leo, is fooling themselves.

That's quite the conspiracy theory to baselessly suggest Todd Bowles was the inspiration behind drafting the likes of Christian Hackenberg. 

You must be in the room with them every draft to have these kinds of inside scoops. 

[BCJet]

9 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Does that include just the offensive side of the ball, because there were certainly lots of draft capital and FA money spent on Bowles D. Again I can buy a top end filet mignon but If I overcook it on the grill do I blame the butcher. At some point you'd figured Todd would learn to cook.

Short but spot on post.

Im so tired of the narrative that the jets dont have talent.  The Rams right now have 1 superstar on offense in Gurley, 1 very good WR in Brandin Cooks and after that a group of players in Robert Woods, Cooper Kupp, and Gerald Everett who are FAR from world beaters.  But guess what - their coach actually makes his players better and they have an offensive line that can protect Goff.

Robby Anderson, Enunwa, and Herndon are not bad players and robby (speed) and Enunwa (size and after the catch ability) have near elite NFL traits for a team to work with.  Unfortunately we have a rookie QB, a RG who gets blown into the backfield 3-4 times a game, and a center who cant snap.   Thats 2-3 people who need to be replaced for 2019.

On defense Mac has found/drafted competent players in williamson, lee, anderson, shepphard, maye and clairborne and has found/drafted 2 players who should be excellent NFL starters in Adams and Leo.  Does our coach do anything with these players?  Nope - he has an athletic DT like Leo occupying blockers and a coverage team that allowed jacksonville to run the same play 10 times in one game, each time for a big gain.  Look at the detroit game - when this defense actually was in sync from a play calling standpoint they physically dominated, yet the team is NEVER in sync nor do we adjust to what teams do.   Put one edge rusher out there with this group along with a competent DC and its a top 10 unit in the NFL.

Todd Bowles is the reason this team stinks.  He preaches a conservative gameplan like its 1985 and it seeps into the players psyches and we come out flat.  We dont play aggressively, we dont make adjustments and we have zero scheme creativity on either side of the ball.  The organization needs a young, smart HC who can develop and offense around Sam that fits the 2019 NFL and who can bring in a veteran DC to get the max out of the defensive resources the team has acquired

[rammagen]

4 hours ago, Savage69 said:

When the Tuna was both he wasn't in sync with himself.. He sucked as a GM..

umm m did I miss something here? I ask because I  did not even mention BP.  If you think he sucked great more power to you but how is this relevant to today and this team now. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Dak has been widely regarded as underwhelming since his rookie year.

Compare Dak to the QB Maccagnan drafted 2 rounds earlier and then reassess.

[ASH1962]

https://youtu.be/C6PNc9KN50M?t=6

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Compare Dak to the QB Maccagnan drafted 2 rounds earlier and then reassess.

There’s no question Dak was a better pick then 90% of Maccagnan’s drafting resume lol but I don’t think Dak will turn out anything better than what he is today.

[Sperm Edwards]

Good to see a few in here aren't blind to what's been going on.

Maccagnan surviving while Bowles gets fired certainly convinces me that this whole time Bowles was really above Maccagnan in the hierarchy, bossed the GM around, made all the bad draft picks, and forced Macc into any/all of the bad FA pickups. Bowles was also the one working the phones to bang out trades with other teams' GMs, and he was the one who nixed any potentially beneficial trades we didn't make. 

Luckily Chris Johnson saw through this, and has given Maccagnan a promotion to GM Actually For Real This Time after 4 years of doing nothing but take marching orders from Bowles.

I love how the few draft picks that haven't busted were evidence of Macc's smarts, and all the rest are because Bowles was putting his thumb on the scales. Obviously Bowles was the one who really wanted Christian Hackenberg. We now know the truth.

Bowles also demanded we make no OL or RB picks in the first 4 draft rounds over these past 4 years because he doesn't like running the football.

The REAL real rebuild begins next year. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

There’s no question Dak was a better pick then 90% of Maccagnan’s drafting resume lol but I don’t think Dak will turn out anything better than what he is today.

Perhaps not, but then the argument is he was coached up too well. So much so it convinced Jerry not to go after anyone any better.

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Perhaps not, but then the argument is he was coached up too well. So much so it convinced Jerry not to go after anyone any better.

I think whenever you find a decent QB in today’s NFL, it becomes extremely hard to just let go of that. Plus hes very young still so even though I don’t think he’ll get much better, I’m sure Jerry does.

[SpartanJet]

So what safety or DL will ""fall"" to us in the first round this year.

[#27TheDominator]

26 minutes ago, rammagen said:

umm m did I miss something here? I ask because I  did not even mention BP.  If you think he sucked great more power to you but how is this relevant to today and this team now. 

Who cares? We should never miss an opportunity to bash that **** ****er!  @T0mShane is back!

[Sperm Edwards]

This is literally tied for dumbest possible move. So the "thought" is that a career scout who's again overseen a bottom-5 roster would be better at picking a HC than he's been at picking players? 

It'd be better to keep them both for another year than limit the coaching search only to those eager to work for a GM with a laughable track record. 

1. Best move by far = fire both of them
2. Next-best (and a DISTANT 2nd at that) = keep both for 1 more year; at least it limits the future damage to 1 season instead of 3 more
3. Worst (and tied for a DISTANT 3rd place as the dumbest) = keep one but not the other, forcing a failure GM onto any new HC, or vice versa. 

The person making this decision is the same one who decided Bowles deserved an extension after 2017, and then made the decision to fire him following a 3-6 start while armed with the NFL's youngest-ever rookie QB and a dog**** excuse of a roster around him. 

[August]

If (wo)Manish says it then you have to take it with a grain of salt 

[mrcoops]

Well, if Macc had been allowed to pick his own head coach when he was hired, we would probably have Doug Marrone. He is very close to Macc and, clearly, a better HC than Bowles.

Although he's not having a great year this year. Macc might even get a shot to hire him this year if Khan gets an itchy trigger finger.

Bonus: that would really piss off/terrify Mehta whose smear campaign against Marrone scared off Woody 4 years ago.

[56mehl56]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Good to see a few in here aren't blind to what's been going on.

Maccagnan surviving while Bowles gets fired certainly convinces me that this whole time Bowles was really above Maccagnan in the hierarchy, bossed the GM around, made all the bad draft picks, and forced Macc into any/all of the bad FA pickups. Bowles was also the one working the phones to bang out trades with other teams' GMs, and he was the one who nixed any potentially beneficial trades we didn't make. 

Luckily Chris Johnson saw through this, and has given Maccagnan a promotion to GM Actually For Real This Time after 4 years of doing nothing but take marching orders from Bowles.

I love how the few draft picks that haven't busted were evidence of Macc's smarts, and all the rest are because Bowles was putting his thumb on the scales. Obviously Bowles was the one who really wanted Christian Hackenberg. We now know the truth.

Bowles also demanded we make no OL or RB picks in the first 4 draft rounds over these past 4 years because he doesn't like running the football.

The REAL real rebuild begins next year. 

Nice deflection. No one here is blaming this 100% on Bowles , but there has been enough smoke about Bowles and staff having their fingers in the stew to not question the claims.

We can play the same game with Bowles. Mac hasn't forced his HC to punt on 4th downs, down two scores, he hasn't forced Bowles to carry his TO's into the lockeroom at halftime, he hasn't forced him to play a long snapper that has broken fingers and can't hit the broad side of a barn .

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Nice deflection. No one here is blaming this 100% on Bowles , but there has been enough smoke about Bowles and staff having their fingers in the stew to not question the claims.

We can play the same game with Bowles. Mac hasn't forced his HC to punt on 4th downs, down two scores, he hasn't forced Bowles to carry his TO's into the lockeroom at halftime, he hasn't forced him to play a long snapper that has broken fingers and can't hit the broad side of a barn .

 

Uh, plenty of people are doing just that.

The suggestion is that the stupidity Macc's exhibited is because of Bowles, and absent that Macc would have been a good GM.

The "same game" is nothing of the sort since you'd be first in line to blame Bowles if Long's backup snapped straight 100% of the time, but then got easily run over and got Darnold badly injured. 

Also I'm not deflecting by suggesting Bowles is any good after his failures, suggesting they're all due to Macc. One could make a stronger suggestion of the opposite, though, because when Macc spent 2+ years' money on the 2015 season, and provided Bowles with an actual NFL roster for a bit, the team went 10-6. You'd be hard-pressed to show Macc's success that Bowles has hidden (e.g. players that did so much better after they moved to another team). There are even situations of players (e.g. Davis, Fitz, McCown, Carpenter, McLendon) having better seasons under Bowles than they had with their prior team. 

They both suck. Badly. One is not demonstrably better than the other.

[Pac]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

You know that phenomenon where you take a week-long vacation and you feel super-refreshed, then you go back into the office on Monday and the maisma of spiritual death in the place instantly overcomes you and you feel like you were never on vacation? This just happened to me when I read Pac’s posts.

Apparently I didn't do a good enough job before.  Hopefully your next sabbatical will last a full season.