With the 4th pick of the draft, the Jets tab defensive tackle Ed Oliver

[MichaelScott]

4 hours ago, RobR said:

Thanks for the clip. The guy who breaks it down does a nice job. My only critique about his analysis was it didn't factor in his poor showing at the combine and when you're drafting that high they better have good combine numbers. 

When you look back at that breakdown Leo is who he is. He is slow off the ball and average athletically. He's just country boy strong and always won with power which rarely flies in the NFL. The fact that he is the same player now as he was coming out speaks volumes about how much athleticism and motor needs to be factored in when drafting that high. Either that or a coach like Bowles can't coach him up and take him to the next level. Probably a bit of both.

I know we continue to get off topic lol, but if you take a look at the article below, there was a ton of talk about him being the best player in the draft and the safest. I'm not arguing if you're right or wrong about your view on his combine, but the stuff going around at the time constantly pointed out elite power and athletesism and, overall, pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. 

Anyway, as to my original point about Oliver, Leo has caused be to be a skeptic about cant miss prospects at the DE position. There was NO ONE predicting what Leo has turned out to be back during his draft. 

 

 

 

https://syndication-bleacherreport-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2374633-is-leonard-williams-the-perfect-nfl-draft-prospect.amp.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

He might be the most talented prospect and the safest. That combination would also make Williams the perfect prospect.

That’s not a description tossed around lightly. But then again, neither is this bold statement from USC athletic director Pat Haden:

Haden could be a wee bit biased as the main czar of all things Trojans. But NFL analyst Charles Davis had no such ties when he said Williams has “Hall of Fame talent,” via Lindsey Thiry of the Los Angeles Times.

There’s also no praise higher than words from the mouth of Gil Brandt, lord of the draft gurus.

“I think he might be the best player in this draft,” Brandt told Sports Illustrated’s Austin Murphy. Brandt also dropped a Canton comparison, saying Williams reminds him of Warren Sapp, the former Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Oakland Raiders defensive tackle who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2013.

Williams checked in at 6’5” and 302 pounds after the standard poking and prodding was over at the NFL Scouting Combine. Then he pushed that body mass and wingspan to a time of 4.97 in the 40-yard dash, prompting NFL Network’s Mike Mayock to drop another eye-widening comparison, per NFL.com's Mike Huguenin: Richard Seymour.

Take your pick, and you can also choose from other common names that have been plopped alongside Williams’, like the Cardinals’ Calais Campbell or the Buccaneers’ Gerald McCoy. But Williams himself prefers another name, according to Dane Brugler of CBS Sports:

Williams said JJ Watt is the one NFL player he tries to base his game after

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) February 20, 2015

Where does all of that high praise and drool come from? Well, mostly two areas that combine to make Williams the best defensive prospect in this year's draft—and the best non-quarterback.

 

Leonard Williams the athlete

Williams’ collegiate career concluded with 21 sacks, 36.5 tackles for loss, two interceptions and five forced fumbles. Of his total tackles (218), 16.7 percent came behind the line of scrimmage.

That production oozes from box scores to give team executives a serious case of starry eyes, especially if they’re employed by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans or Jacksonville Jaguars (teams with the top three picks). But a true appreciation of Williams as an athlete lies in the highest form of NFL prospect standard testing.

Williams did something we haven’t seen in a decade when he needed only 4.97 seconds to run 40 yards in a straight line, per ESPN's Adam Schefter:

 

That’s some serious movement, and not at all normal. The Oscars are fresh, so the appropriate classic movie scene here would be Indiana Jones frantically running from a giant rolling rock (Williams is the rock, and he wins this time).

Williams is wise to model his game and training after Watt. That’s a smart career move for any defensive lineman. At his combine appearance in 2011, Watt posted a 40-yard dash time of 4.84 seconds, which compares favorably to Williams considering the weight difference between the two.

 

The 1.72 10-yard split posted by Williams during his combine appearance Sunday was also impressive, especially when put next to Watt’s time of 1.64.

Few can even begin to approach Watt's level, since the bar set by generational talents is always exceedingly high. But there’s a parallel between the two when we focus solely on speed, a critical asset for the stated goal of every pass-rusher: to consistently create disruption.

 

[RobR]

17 minutes ago, cant wait said:

fair enough- say if oakland wants to give up one of their 1st round picks for leo I’d be totally on board to take a guy like oliver top 5. jets need impact players period and he certainly sounds like one... also I meant to say that LW is the only guy on the jets DL that teams have to worry about doubling- and to his credit he handles them pretty good, he doesn’t really allow them to chip the blitzer off the double team but that’s kind of what you should expect from a guy his size

We're definitely on different pages here. I love Ed Oliver but I think we should draft offense, especially since we don't have a 2nd rounder.

I also don't think we'll have a chance to draft him with our recent win. Some other team is going to get a perennial all pro in Oliver. I think he has a 0% bust potential and the skies the limit.  

[cant wait]

7 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

I know we continue to get off topic lol, but if you take a look at the article below, there was a ton of talk about him being the best player in the draft and the safest. I'm not arguing if you're right or wrong about your view on his combine, but the stuff going around at the time constantly pointed out elite power and athletesism and, overall, pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. 

Anyway, as to my original point about Oliver, Leo has caused be to be a skeptic about cant miss prospects at the DE position. There was NO ONE predicting what Leo has turned out to be back during his draft. 

 

 

 

https://syndication-bleacherreport-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2374633-is-leonard-williams-the-perfect-nfl-draft-prospect.amp.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

He might be the most talented prospect and the safest. That combination would also make Williams the perfect prospect.

That’s not a description tossed around lightly. But then again, neither is this bold statement from USC athletic director Pat Haden:

Haden could be a wee bit biased as the main czar of all things Trojans. But NFL analyst Charles Davis had no such ties when he said Williams has “Hall of Fame talent,” via Lindsey Thiry of the Los Angeles Times.

There’s also no praise higher than words from the mouth of Gil Brandt, lord of the draft gurus.

“I think he might be the best player in this draft,” Brandt told Sports Illustrated’s Austin Murphy. Brandt also dropped a Canton comparison, saying Williams reminds him of Warren Sapp, the former Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Oakland Raiders defensive tackle who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2013.

Williams checked in at 6’5” and 302 pounds after the standard poking and prodding was over at the NFL Scouting Combine. Then he pushed that body mass and wingspan to a time of 4.97 in the 40-yard dash, prompting NFL Network’s Mike Mayock to drop another eye-widening comparison, per NFL.com's Mike Huguenin: Richard Seymour.

Take your pick, and you can also choose from other common names that have been plopped alongside Williams’, like the Cardinals’ Calais Campbell or the Buccaneers’ Gerald McCoy. But Williams himself prefers another name, according to Dane Brugler of CBS Sports:

Williams said JJ Watt is the one NFL player he tries to base his game after

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) February 20, 2015

Where does all of that high praise and drool come from? Well, mostly two areas that combine to make Williams the best defensive prospect in this year's draft—and the best non-quarterback.

 

Leonard Williams the athlete

Williams’ collegiate career concluded with 21 sacks, 36.5 tackles for loss, two interceptions and five forced fumbles. Of his total tackles (218), 16.7 percent came behind the line of scrimmage.

That production oozes from box scores to give team executives a serious case of starry eyes, especially if they’re employed by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans or Jacksonville Jaguars (teams with the top three picks). But a true appreciation of Williams as an athlete lies in the highest form of NFL prospect standard testing.

Williams did something we haven’t seen in a decade when he needed only 4.97 seconds to run 40 yards in a straight line, per ESPN's Adam Schefter:

 

That’s some serious movement, and not at all normal. The Oscars are fresh, so the appropriate classic movie scene here would be Indiana Jones frantically running from a giant rolling rock (Williams is the rock, and he wins this time).

Williams is wise to model his game and training after Watt. That’s a smart career move for any defensive lineman. At his combine appearance in 2011, Watt posted a 40-yard dash time of 4.84 seconds, which compares favorably to Williams considering the weight difference between the two.

 

The 1.72 10-yard split posted by Williams during his combine appearance Sunday was also impressive, especially when put next to Watt’s time of 1.64.

Few can even begin to approach Watt's level, since the bar set by generational talents is always exceedingly high. But there’s a parallel between the two when we focus solely on speed, a critical asset for the stated goal of every pass-rusher: to consistently create disruption.

 

with the big guys it’s not really as much the speed scores as it is the explosive metrics like vert... when you got guys like watt and suh that are putting up 35”+ vertical that’s real power. the kind that means you’re just able to physically dominate the biggest in the NFL, if oliver puts up a 35+ vert at 290+ he could go #1 overall 

[cant wait]

4 minutes ago, RobR said:

We're definitely on different pages here. I love Ed Oliver but I think we should draft offense, especially since we don't have a 2nd rounder.

I also don't think we'll have a chance to draft him with our recent win. Some other team is going to get a perennial all pro in Oliver. I think he has a 0% bust potential and the skies the limit.  

I wouldn’t mind taking an OT in round 1, but if the jets have the chance to draft a franchise playmaker like a mack or donald they have to take him IMO

[RobR]

22 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

I know we continue to get off topic lol, but if you take a look at the article below, there was a ton of talk about him being the best player in the draft and the safest. I'm not arguing if you're right or wrong about your view on his combine, but the stuff going around at the time constantly pointed out elite power and athletesism and, overall, pretty much the opposite of what you're saying. 

Anyway, as to my original point about Oliver, Leo has caused be to be a skeptic about cant miss prospects at the DE position. There was NO ONE predicting what Leo has turned out to be back during his draft. 

 

 

 

https://syndication-bleacherreport-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2374633-is-leonard-williams-the-perfect-nfl-draft-prospect.amp.html?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHCAFYAYABAQ%3D%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

He might be the most talented prospect and the safest. That combination would also make Williams the perfect prospect.

That’s not a description tossed around lightly. But then again, neither is this bold statement from USC athletic director Pat Haden:

Haden could be a wee bit biased as the main czar of all things Trojans. But NFL analyst Charles Davis had no such ties when he said Williams has “Hall of Fame talent,” via Lindsey Thiry of the Los Angeles Times.

There’s also no praise higher than words from the mouth of Gil Brandt, lord of the draft gurus.

“I think he might be the best player in this draft,” Brandt told Sports Illustrated’s Austin Murphy. Brandt also dropped a Canton comparison, saying Williams reminds him of Warren Sapp, the former Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Oakland Raiders defensive tackle who was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2013.

Williams checked in at 6’5” and 302 pounds after the standard poking and prodding was over at the NFL Scouting Combine. Then he pushed that body mass and wingspan to a time of 4.97 in the 40-yard dash, prompting NFL Network’s Mike Mayock to drop another eye-widening comparison, per NFL.com's Mike Huguenin: Richard Seymour.

Take your pick, and you can also choose from other common names that have been plopped alongside Williams’, like the Cardinals’ Calais Campbell or the Buccaneers’ Gerald McCoy. But Williams himself prefers another name, according to Dane Brugler of CBS Sports:

Williams said JJ Watt is the one NFL player he tries to base his game after

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) February 20, 2015

Where does all of that high praise and drool come from? Well, mostly two areas that combine to make Williams the best defensive prospect in this year's draft—and the best non-quarterback.

 

Leonard Williams the athlete

Williams’ collegiate career concluded with 21 sacks, 36.5 tackles for loss, two interceptions and five forced fumbles. Of his total tackles (218), 16.7 percent came behind the line of scrimmage.

That production oozes from box scores to give team executives a serious case of starry eyes, especially if they’re employed by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Tennessee Titans or Jacksonville Jaguars (teams with the top three picks). But a true appreciation of Williams as an athlete lies in the highest form of NFL prospect standard testing.

Williams did something we haven’t seen in a decade when he needed only 4.97 seconds to run 40 yards in a straight line, per ESPN's Adam Schefter:

 

That’s some serious movement, and not at all normal. The Oscars are fresh, so the appropriate classic movie scene here would be Indiana Jones frantically running from a giant rolling rock (Williams is the rock, and he wins this time).

Williams is wise to model his game and training after Watt. That’s a smart career move for any defensive lineman. At his combine appearance in 2011, Watt posted a 40-yard dash time of 4.84 seconds, which compares favorably to Williams considering the weight difference between the two.

 

The 1.72 10-yard split posted by Williams during his combine appearance Sunday was also impressive, especially when put next to Watt’s time of 1.64.

Few can even begin to approach Watt's level, since the bar set by generational talents is always exceedingly high. But there’s a parallel between the two when we focus solely on speed, a critical asset for the stated goal of every pass-rusher: to consistently create disruption.

 

Stop reading all of that nonsense and look at sites like Cantwait posted, or post in some of the breakdowns we do here.  That article even mentioning Watts name gives it absolutely no credibility.

Watt blew up the combine just like every other good passrusher in this league.

Watt killed the combine, just like every other good pasrusher in the NFL. People call it the underwear Olympics but it is a g  

[RobR]

11 minutes ago, cant wait said:

I wouldn’t mind taking an OT in round 1, but if the jets have the chance to draft a franchise playmaker like a mack or donald they have to take him IMO

In the draft thread I'll bitch them out for going defense yet again. Deep down I'll be smiling because I think he''s that good.

[MichaelScott]

11 hours ago, cant wait said:

with the big guys it’s not really as much the speed scores as it is the explosive metrics like vert... when you got guys like watt and suh that are putting up 35”+ vertical that’s real power. the kind that means you’re just able to physically dominate the biggest in the NFL, if oliver puts up a 35+ vert at 290+ he could go #1 overall 

Cool post, thank you. 

[MichaelScott]

11 hours ago, RobR said:

Stop reading all of that nonsense and look at sites like Cantwait posted, or post in some of the breakdowns we do here.  That article even mentioning Watts name gives it absolutely no credibility.

Watt blew up the combine just like every other good passrusher in this league.

Watt killed the combine, just like every other good pasrusher in the NFL. People call it the underwear Olympics but it is a g  

When it comes to the combine you can pick players to fit any argument. There are plenty of players who absolutely blew the combine away and were absolutely useless on the football field. Likewise there are plenty of players with disappointing measurables the turned out to be all pros. The combine is a tool, like anything else but making it the end all be all is setting yourself up for a lot of busts. 

[RobR]

2 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

When it comes to the combine you can pick players to fit any argument. There are plenty of players who absolutely blew the combine away and were absolutely useless on the football field. Likewise there are plenty of players with disappointing measurables the turned out to be all pros. The combine is a tool, like anything else but making it the end all be all is setting yourself up for a lot of busts. 

I agree with what you're saying but if you're drafting high those players need to have good tape and they need to perform well at the combine. All of the best passrushers in the league can jump far, and high, and turned in a good 40 and 3 cone.

[MichaelScott]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

I agree with what you're saying but if you're drafting high those players need to have good tape and they need to perform well at the combine. All of the best passrushers in the league can jump far, and high, and turned in a good 40 and 3 cone.

I dont know enough about combine scores to dispute this so I'll take your word for it. Seems like the Jets will have one or two of the top pass rushers avail with their first pick. I'll look forward to seeing how they do at the combine 

[JohnnyLV]

Are you guys seriously discussing taking a DT in the first round that has never had double digit sacks in college? Seriously? Unless I am getting pretty much guaranteed 10 to 15 sacks every season in the NFL, no way in hell do I draft DT in the first round. Aren't we living concrete proof of that? DT has become the most consistently overrated position in the NFL draft. People see an athletic 300lb guy, and convince themselves that since "you just dont see that altheticism often" he is now somehow worthy of a Top 15 pick. Nonsense. Unless you get Donald or Watt, they just dont In my opinion move the needle. First round should be about QB, OL, and then people who either handle the ball or cause the ball to be turned over.

[BigO]

On 11/18/2018 at 6:18 AM, LockeJET said:

100% 

And then he pulls a Sprewell during his rookie season and chokes our new coach.

I’m all in for picking Oliver if he promises to choke Mac instead.

[maury77]

On 12/13/2018 at 3:21 PM, RobR said:

I agree with what you're saying but if you're drafting high those players need to have good tape and they need to perform well at the combine. All of the best passrushers in the league can jump far, and high, and turned in a good 40 and 3 cone.

I agree, but I think the 10 yard split is more important for DL & edge rushers than the 40. 

[Philc1]

Ferrell or Allen

[Larz]

So recently NFL guys admitted that combine times are not as valuable as game speed times. 

The NFL is providing analytics data to the teams from sensors in the pads I believe 

Do college teams have any game speed data? 

[cant wait]

16 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Are you guys seriously discussing taking a DT in the first round that has never had double digit sacks in college? Seriously? Unless I am getting pretty much guaranteed 10 to 15 sacks every season in the NFL, no way in hell do I draft DT in the first round. Aren't we living concrete proof of that? DT has become the most consistently overrated position in the NFL draft. People see an athletic 300lb guy, and convince themselves that since "you just dont see that altheticism often" he is now somehow worthy of a Top 15 pick. Nonsense. Unless you get Donald or Watt, they just dont In my opinion move the needle. First round should be about QB, OL, and then people who either handle the ball or cause the ball to be turned over.

sack numbers aren’t as important in college,  especially in conferences like the SEC where offenses don’t pass nearly as much as in NFL