Bell’s expecting price revealed

[Doggin94it]

19 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I hope that the Steelers put the transition tag on him, and he sits out for another year. I'm tired of these overgrown children pretending that they can't feed their kids on a paltry 14.5 million. You don't have to give the money back when you suck, which almost always happens when an aging RB gets a big second contract. 

 you understand that tag just gives them a right to match offers, and doesn't require any compensation from the signing team, right? So it really won't limit his market in any meaningful way

[nico002]

if I could guarantee effort I would sign bell. My concern is... what motivation does he have once he gets paid? He ain’t going for another contract and he ain’t winning a Super Bowl here.

[sec101row23]

13 minutes ago, nico002 said:

if I could guarantee effort I would sign bell. My concern is... what motivation does he have once he gets paid? He ain’t going for another contract and he ain’t winning a Super Bowl here.

Agreed.  That’s a massive concern.  

Plus if winning is a motivation for him then he will go to the Colts, Texans, or Seahawks before he comes here. 

If I am Bell I go to the Texans.  They have $70 mill in cap space and some good weapons around him. He would thrive in that offense with Watson and Hopkins.  Would be much better than fighting stacked 9 man boxes with the Jets.  

[Savage69]

18 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

Sadly that's about par for the course with us. WAY back in the day (AFL) we drafted (1st round) a LB Carl McAdams I think, out of Oklahoma.  He shattered his ankle walking off a curb seconds after he signed with the Jets. Never was the same and he faded fairly quickly after 2 years.

When the Nfl and AFL drafted players separately  McAdams was a 1st rd pick of the Cards but a 3rd rd pick of the Jets..

[Savage69]

2 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

If he has the character and pride of a Curtis Martin, or Ladainian Tomlinson, count me in.

Really?? He screwed the team that drafted him to sign a poison pill contract with the Tuna that was latter outlawed by the NFL.. And he also once said ..  “I wasn’t the biggest football fan to begin with, but if I was going to play, I didn’t want to play for what was in my mind the worst team, ever,” “I looked at the Jets as the bottom of the barrel.”

 

 

https://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2012/07/curtis_martin_never_liked_foot.html

[sec101row23]

57 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Yep. Even better would be to give him a six-year deal, considering he really wants that 17 million per year average for face saving reasons. If you can get him for 15 million / over the first three years, then give him 20 million / over the last 3 years, 6 for 105 with 50 guaranteed is a palatable deal for for Bell (from a team standpoint).  It's basically 3/45 and a 5m dead cap buyout year 4.

Bell gets to say he got the biggest ever RB contract including the highest guarantee. 

How much more are the Jets going to have to offer for him to come here though?  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

How much more are the Jets going to have to offer for him to come here though?  

75 million guaranteed at $18 mil per

 

I’m actually starting to warm up to the jets signing Bell but for more fatalistic reasons.  This team is so boring at least Bell brings some excitement 

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Yeah, you're right. Lets just stay with Cannon. No need to try to upgrade with the guy who would be the best offensive weapon in the teams history. Sam doesn't need any playmakers, and like you said there's zero chance he'll play well.

The bigger need than RB is slot receiver.  Kearse sucks

[Freemanm]

Jets should also sign RT Daryl Williams. His knee injury in training camp should lower his FA value

[shawn306]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

if I could guarantee effort I would sign bell. My concern is... what motivation does he have once he gets paid? He ain’t going for another contract and he ain’t winning a Super Bowl here.

I don't want him. This guy has made it clear he is about one thing. Getting paid. If you really want a RB go find one in the draft

[Bugg]

Don't fault any player form trying to max out their income. The whole idea that this is about parity is a joke. Every team income wise is equal. If Jerry Jones or Kraft want to blow their budget to get a players, let them. You do not get a trophy for cap management. Several teams in the 1990s-the Broncos and the Niners-  violated  the cap rules and nobody cared. There probably are others that did so and are still doing so. The entire country is homogenized; the big markets no longer have any advantage, and given their high tax structure, arguable they are at a disadvantage. The whole system is rigged to suppress player salaries. Very few players get to this point. It's a brutal sport in which the contract structure is designed to make it very difficult to make much beyond bare minimum, nor vest in the pension plan, nor the long term medical plan.

The NFLPA has to be the single worst union in all of pro sports, because they cater to their top end membership when very few guys have more than a  3-4 year career. So Demaurice Whatever holds out the shiny trinket of free agency. If anyone saw Tim Green on "60 Minutes" last night, Jesus, is that disgraceful for all sides.  CBS has to be fielding some very angry calls form the NFL this morning. 

[rangerous]

from the wall street journal.  at this stage bell isn't going to be worth 45 million guaranteed.  presumably that's over 3 seasons.  the position itself isn't worth it although there are some rbs that really do help their teams.

Le’Veon Bell and the Diminishing Value of Running Backs in the NFL

The smartest teams have realized in recent years that committing major resources to a running back may not be the savviest move

 

 

Pittsburgh Steelers running back Le’Veon Bell is sitting out the 2018 season. PHOTO:BRIAN KUNST/ZUMA PRESS

111 COMMENTS

By 

Andrew Beaton

Nov. 16, 2018 9:21 a.m. ET

 

Even before Le’Veon Bell’s season-long holdout reached a bizarre conclusion in which his Pittsburgh Steelers teammates plundered his locker for gear, it gripped the NFL for a reason that had nothing to do with his specific melodrama. Bell’s holdout poked at a question much greater than one player’s value: How much is a running back worth in the modern NFL?

The smartest NFL teams have realized in recent years that committing major resources to a running back may not be the savviest move. The New York Giants spent the second pick of the draft on Saquon Barkley, and it has done nothing to lift the team’s malaise. The Arizona Cardinals signed David Johnson to a long-term deal and still have the worst offense in the league.

 

Then Bell held out for a long-term deal that he didn’t get and now he’ll sit out for the entire 2018 season.

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The problem for running backs is that they aren’t the game changers they once were. Teams are passing more, which means they’re running less. Even the best running backs are often on the wrong side of the age curve by the time they hit free agency. And more and more, there’s reason to believe it’s one of the most replaceable positions in the sport.

The drama around Bell, arguably the best running back in the NFL, explains this best. From 2014 through last season, no player in the league had more combined rushing and receiving yards than Bell. And the only two running backs even within 1,000 yards of his 6,737 both played at least 10 more games than he did. But with the two parties unable to agree on a long-term deal, and Pittsburgh holding control over him through the franchise tag—a lucrative, but one-year deal teams can use to hold on to players—Bell held out.

That holdout lasted through training camp, the preseason and into the regular season. When he didn’t show up this week, a league-mandated deadline, it sealed his fate: Bell would sit all year, making him the first holdout on a franchise tag to sit an entire season in more than two decades. When the deadline passed, video surfaced of Pittsburgh players rummaging through his former locker to collect gear.

But there’s a reason the Steelers weren’t wallowing in the disappointment that a star teammate, one who made the Pro Bowl in three of the previous four seasons, wasn’t returning for their playoff run. That’s because Pittsburgh became ground zero for realizing a running back’s fungibility. Bell’s replacement has performed just like Bell.

 

James Conner, who was slated to be Bell’s backup, is near the top of the leaderboards now that he’s the Steelers lead back. Conner is third in the league in rushing touchdowns, third in rushing yards and second in total yards from scrimmage.

Pittsburgh Steelers running back James Conner has filled the void left by Le’Veon Bell. PHOTO: BRIAN KUNST/ZUMA PRESS

While it isn’t clear how much Bell loses in the outcome—he gives up the nearly $15 million he would have earned this season but could still net a megadeal in free agency—the Steelers won their end of it. They resisted committing a lot of money to a running back. And they’re 6-2-1 on the season, averaging the fourth most points per game in the NFL. They aren’t hurting.

But some teams that are hurting made a different calculation. Last spring, the Giants had the No. 2 pick in a quarterback-rich draft and had an aging quarterback that most people believed needed replacing. Instead of drafting Eli Manning’s heir, though, they decided to support him with the consensus top running back prospect. Barkley became the highest running back selected since 2006.

Barkley is the paradox who explains the state of running backs in the NFL at a time when teams pass more than ever. His selection has been a success and a failure.

Barkley is unquestionably one of the best running backs in the NFL, and a modern one at that. He is on pace for more than 1,000 rushing yards and could become just the third running back ever, and the first since Marshall Faulk in 1999, with more than 1,000 rushing and receiving yards in the same season.

The problem for the Giants is that it’s unclear how much better he has made them. They are 2-7 and headed for a second consecutive season toward the bottom of the standings. They still don’t have a long-term answer at quarterback. And the cost of drafting Barkley was that they didn’t take Sam Darnold, Josh Allen or Josh Rosen—the three quarterbacks who went later in the top-10 of the draft.

New York Giants running back Saquon Barkley tries to elude San Francisco 49ers cornerback Jimmie Ward. PHOTO: CARY EDMONDSON/REUTERS

The Giants weren’t the only team to splurge at the position this off-season. The Cardinals did too, locking up Johnson for the long-term with one of the richest deals for a running back. And he has done little to move the needle for an offense averaging the fewest yards per game in the NFL.

The other side of the coin is Todd Gurley. The Rams locked up their star this off-season and made him the highest-paid back in the game. And Gurley has led the NFL in almost every statistical rushing category.

But the Rams aren’t quite like the Giants or the Cardinals. They were a playoff team a year ago. They were in prime position to splurge on a luxury because they had the most important things already figured out. And they also could distinctly understand how much a running back is dependent on an offense—and not vice versa: In 2016, behind a puttering offense, Gurley was one of the least effective running backs in the league.

[Thai Jet]

4 hours ago, Savage69 said:

When the Nfl and AFL drafted players separately  McAdams was a 1st rd pick of the Cards but a 3rd rd pick of the Jets..

Thanks .  I remember it was a BFD when he signed with us. Long time ago.

[Savage69]

14 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Thank I remember it was a BFD when he signed with us. Long time ago.

It was a wild draft back then, when we drafted Matt Snell we took him in the 1st round the Giants took him in the 4th rd.. Namath on the other hand was our 1st pick number 1 in the AFL draft and the Cards took him with the 12 pick in the first rd in the NFL draft.. 

[sec101row23]

But the Rams aren’t quite like the Giants or the Cardinals. They were a playoff team a year ago. They were in prime position to splurge on a luxury because they had the most important things already figured out. And they also could distinctly understand how much a running back is dependent on an offense—and not vice versa: In 2016, behind a puttering offense, Gurley was one of the least effective running backs in the league.

 

The Gurley analogy is pretty spot on.   If the O line doesn’t improve dramatically and the weapons on the outside aren’t upgraded the return on Bell’s investment will be little.  That’s why I don’t think Bell will want to come here.  There will be better options available to him.  

[Thai Jet]

5 hours ago, nico002 said:

if I could guarantee effort I would sign bell. My concern is... what motivation does he have once he gets paid? He ain’t going for another contract and he ain’t winning a Super Bowl here.

That's a legitimate concern. "I've already GOT the money. guaranteed.  Why should I really kill myself? For what? "

[UntouchableCrew]

5 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  That’s a massive concern.  

Plus if winning is a motivation for him then he will go to the Colts, Texans, or Seahawks before he comes here. 

If I am Bell I go to the Texans.  They have $70 mill in cap space and some good weapons around him. He would thrive in that offense with Watson and Hopkins.  Would be much better than fighting stacked 9 man boxes with the Jets.  

If he cared about anything but money he wouldn't be in the position he's in now. He'd have signed a long term deal to stay in Pittsburgh.

He literally sacrificed a year of his career and 14.5 million to finally get to UFA -- he's going with whoever pays him the most.

[sec101row23]

31 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If he cared about anything but money he wouldn't be in the position he's in now. He'd have signed a long term deal to stay in Pittsburgh.

He literally sacrificed a year of his career and 14.5 million to finally get to UFA -- he's going with whoever pays him the most.

True.  But how much more will the Jets need to pay him to get him to sign?  

[choon328]

22 hours ago, Larz said:

Don't fall in love with bell yet 

Steelers control his destiny and the colts will have $24 million more in cap room to sign bell 

What did bell say about signing with the Jets last year? 

"I can't wait to work my butt off and win a championship for Jets fans" 

Something like that? 

Steelers really don't control anything.  They can transition tag him and get the right to first refusal but there is no way they match an offer with the year Conner is having.  There is no other incentive to transition tag him besides to match the offer.  They wouldn't get any compensation.  As far as the Colts, I can see them continuing to build in front of Luck on Offensive Line.  Then spend money on their defense to help Luck out.  As far as RB is concerned they drafted Mack, Wilkins and Hynes the last 2 years.  They have a combined 1,044 yards rushing and averaging 4.9 ypc.  It's not necessary for a team that is already performing well in that area to add such an expensive player.  The position we have to watch out for when it comes to them is WR.  Indianapolis is going to be an attractive place to go for WR's after the year Luck is having.

[choon328]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

But the Rams aren’t quite like the Giants or the Cardinals. They were a playoff team a year ago. They were in prime position to splurge on a luxury because they had the most important things already figured out. And they also could distinctly understand how much a running back is dependent on an offense—and not vice versa: In 2016, behind a puttering offense, Gurley was one of the least effective running backs in the league.

 

The Gurley analogy is pretty spot on.   If the O line doesn’t improve dramatically and the weapons on the outside aren’t upgraded the return on Bell’s investment will be little.  That’s why I don’t think Bell will want to come here.  There will be better options available to him.  

After this off-season and season of really doing nothing on offense to upgrade this team the Jets can not lose out on the Bell sweepstakes.  They will pay whatever it takes to get him here.  After finishing 2nd for guys like Cousins and Mack they can not be 2nd again.  It's unacceptable.  If they identify 4 or 5 guys that can help this team the most then they need to pay whatever it takes to get them on the team.  No more excuses. 

[sec101row23]

31 minutes ago, choon328 said:

After this off-season and season of really doing nothing on offense to upgrade this team the Jets can not lose out on the Bell sweepstakes.  They will pay whatever it takes to get him here.  After finishing 2nd for guys like Cousins and Mack they can not be 2nd again.  It's unacceptable.  If they identify 4 or 5 guys that can help this team the most then they need to pay whatever it takes to get them on the team.  No more excuses. 

They cant afford to pay 4 to 5 guys whatever it takes.  They don’t have that much money.  With the amount of players they need to sign, they can maybe offer two top of the market deals.  They aren’t in a position to just key in on several guys and pay them whatever they want. 

[Bugg]

3 hours ago, rangerous said:

from the wall street journal.  at this stage bell isn't going to be worth 45 million guaranteed.  presumably that's over 3 seasons.  the position itself isn't worth it although there are some rbs that really do help their teams.

Le’Veon Bell and the Diminishing Value of Running Backs in the NFL

The smartest teams have realized in recent years that committing major resources to a running back may not be the savviest move

 

 

Pittsburgh Steelers running back Le’Veon Bell is sitting out the 2018 season. PHOTO:BRIAN KUNST/ZUMA PRESS

111 COMMENTS

By 

Andrew Beaton

Nov. 16, 2018 9:21 a.m. ET

 

Even before Le’Veon Bell’s season-long holdout reached a bizarre conclusion in which his Pittsburgh Steelers teammates plundered his locker for gear, it gripped the NFL for a reason that had nothing to do with his specific melodrama. Bell’s holdout poked at a question much greater than one player’s value: How much is a running back worth in the modern NFL?

The smartest NFL teams have realized in recent years that committing major resources to a running back may not be the savviest move. The New York Giants spent the second pick of the draft on Saquon Barkley, and it has done nothing to lift the team’s malaise. The Arizona Cardinals signed David Johnson to a long-term deal and still have the worst offense in the league.

 

Then Bell held out for a long-term deal that he didn’t get and now he’ll sit out for the entire 2018 season.

Newsletter Sign-up

The problem for running backs is that they aren’t the game changers they once were. Teams are passing more, which means they’re running less. Even the best running backs are often on the wrong side of the age curve by the time they hit free agency. And more and more, there’s reason to believe it’s one of the most replaceable positions in the sport.

The drama around Bell, arguably the best running back in the NFL, explains this best. From 2014 through last season, no player in the league had more combined rushing and receiving yards than Bell. And the only two running backs even within 1,000 yards of his 6,737 both played at least 10 more games than he did. But with the two parties unable to agree on a long-term deal, and Pittsburgh holding control over him through the franchise tag—a lucrative, but one-year deal teams can use to hold on to players—Bell held out.

That holdout lasted through training camp, the preseason and into the regular season. When he didn’t show up this week, a league-mandated deadline, it sealed his fate: Bell would sit all year, making him the first holdout on a franchise tag to sit an entire season in more than two decades. When the deadline passed, video surfaced of Pittsburgh players rummaging through his former locker to collect gear.

But there’s a reason the Steelers weren’t wallowing in the disappointment that a star teammate, one who made the Pro Bowl in three of the previous four seasons, wasn’t returning for their playoff run. That’s because Pittsburgh became ground zero for realizing a running back’s fungibility. Bell’s replacement has performed just like Bell.

 

James Conner, who was slated to be Bell’s backup, is near the top of the leaderboards now that he’s the Steelers lead back. Conner is third in the league in rushing touchdowns, third in rushing yards and second in total yards from scrimmage.

Pittsburgh Steelers running back James Conner has filled the void left by Le’Veon Bell. PHOTO: BRIAN KUNST/ZUMA PRESS

While it isn’t clear how much Bell loses in the outcome—he gives up the nearly $15 million he would have earned this season but could still net a megadeal in free agency—the Steelers won their end of it. They resisted committing a lot of money to a running back. And they’re 6-2-1 on the season, averaging the fourth most points per game in the NFL. They aren’t hurting.

But some teams that are hurting made a different calculation. Last spring, the Giants had the No. 2 pick in a quarterback-rich draft and had an aging quarterback that most people believed needed replacing. Instead of drafting Eli Manning’s heir, though, they decided to support him with the consensus top running back prospect. Barkley became the highest running back selected since 2006.

Barkley is the paradox who explains the state of running backs in the NFL at a time when teams pass more than ever. His selection has been a success and a failure.

Barkley is unquestionably one of the best running backs in the NFL, and a modern one at that. He is on pace for more than 1,000 rushing yards and could become just the third running back ever, and the first since Marshall Faulk in 1999, with more than 1,000 rushing and receiving yards in the same season.

The problem for the Giants is that it’s unclear how much better he has made them. They are 2-7 and headed for a second consecutive season toward the bottom of the standings. They still don’t have a long-term answer at quarterback. And the cost of drafting Barkley was that they didn’t take Sam Darnold, Josh Allen or Josh Rosen—the three quarterbacks who went later in the top-10 of the draft.

New York Giants running back Saquon Barkley tries to elude San Francisco 49ers cornerback Jimmie Ward. PHOTO: CARY EDMONDSON/REUTERS

The Giants weren’t the only team to splurge at the position this off-season. The Cardinals did too, locking up Johnson for the long-term with one of the richest deals for a running back. And he has done little to move the needle for an offense averaging the fewest yards per game in the NFL.

The other side of the coin is Todd Gurley. The Rams locked up their star this off-season and made him the highest-paid back in the game. And Gurley has led the NFL in almost every statistical rushing category.

But the Rams aren’t quite like the Giants or the Cardinals. They were a playoff team a year ago. They were in prime position to splurge on a luxury because they had the most important things already figured out. And they also could distinctly understand how much a running back is dependent on an offense—and not vice versa: In 2016, behind a puttering offense, Gurley was one of the least effective running backs in the league.

Barkley has been every bit as good as advertised, but with a crappy diminished Eli Maning, hasn't really changed things for the better. Again, no fault of Barkley, simply backs don't have that kind of impact any more. 

[UntouchableCrew]

40 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

True.  But how much more will the Jets need to pay him to get him to sign?  

I would be surprised if there was a huge gap. And if he signs with Houston for slightly less money I'd bet it's more about the tax implications of NJ vs. Texas rather than talent around him.

[#27TheDominator]

That article is kind of weird.  Barkley is "modern" because he is doing something that has not been done since 1999?  WTF?

[sec101row23]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

That article is kind of weird.  Barkley he is doing something that has not been done since 1999?  WTF?

Correct.  And the Giants are still 3-7.  

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I would be surprised if there was a huge gap. And if he signs with Houston for slightly less money I'd bet it's more about the tax implications of NJ vs. Texas rather than talent around him.

So if the money is similar he wouldn’t want to go to the better team?  

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

So if the money is similar he wouldn’t want to go to the better team?  

I mean, define "similar." I think if one offer is 50 million guaranteed and one is 45 is going 50 for sure.

[bealeb319]

Just saw an article asking if the jets should pay bell 17m per year that figure to me is absolutely insane, no running back is worth that kind of money. Overpaying him imo is in the 10m range at 17m per year he is hindering a rebuild in a major way.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

[rangerous]

48 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Barkley has been every bit as good as advertised, but with a crappy diminished Eli Maning, hasn't really changed things for the better. Again, no fault of Barkley, simply backs don't have that kind of impact any more. 

yes but barkley isn't costing them 14-15 million a year either.  i think the point is there just isn't enough return for the money guys like bell want.

[jgb]

I wonder if Le’veon Bell will be more like Tatum Bell behind our trash line

[long suffering jets fan]

7 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Really?? He screwed the team that drafted him to sign a poison pill contract with the Tuna that was latter outlawed by the NFL.. And he also once said ..  “I wasn’t the biggest football fan to begin with, but if I was going to play, I didn’t want to play for what was in my mind the worst team, ever,” “I looked at the Jets as the bottom of the barrel.”

 

 

https://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2012/07/curtis_martin_never_liked_foot.html

The Jets were 1-15 the year before Parcells got here, we WERE the bottom of the barrel and he joined us anyway.  He simply followed his coach to the Jets, performed admirably never was a problem, never had a contract dispute and went to the HOF as a Jet.

If Bell comes anywhere close to that I'm in.

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

Just saw an article asking if the jets should pay bell 17m per year that figure to me is absolutely insane, no running back is worth that kind of money. Overpaying him imo is in the 10m range at 17m per year he is hindering a rebuild in a major way.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Leveon Bell IS a rebuild. He's as good catching passes out of the backfield as he is running the ball He can pick up a blitz also. Sooner or later this team needs to get some elite talent. We never draft it, so we have to over pay for it. Unless you're happy with a bunch more 5-11 years, we have to do this now.

[bealeb319]

Leveon Bell IS a rebuild. He's as good catching passes out of the backfield as he is running the ball He can pick up a blitz also. Sooner or later this team needs to get some elite talent. We never draft it, so we have to over pay for it. Unless you're happy with a bunch more 5-11 years, we have to do this now.

Aaron Rodgers makes 20m per year bell Todd Gurley makes 7 bell is not 10m per year better than Gurley and is not only 3m less of a game changer as Rodgers. Bell is a good player but he is not 17m good when there are gapeing holes all over the field and bottom of the barrel talent on the offensive line.

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[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Aaron Rodgers makes 20m per year bell Todd Gurley makes 7 bell is not 10m per year better than Gurley and is not only 3m less of a game changer as Rodgers. Bell is a good player but he is not 17m good when there are gapeing holes all over the field and bottom of the barrel talent on the offensive line.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Where do you get your figures?

Gurley makes more than $14M per year.  You aren't even half right.  Gurley also signed an extension, not a FA deal.  He was still tied up for 2 years (1 sub-$1M and the 5th year option) when he signed.  That is very different than the open market. 

[bealeb319]

Where do you get your figures?

Gurley makes more than $14M per year.  You aren't even half right.  Gurley also signed an extension, not a FA deal.  He was still tied up for 2 years (1 sub-$1M and the 5th year option) when he signed.  That is very different than the open market. 

Overthecap has Gurley at 7.2m

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