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Convince me on McCarthy.(And if you don’t like McCarthy then convince me on your most desired candidate)


Patriot Killa

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28 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

John Harbaugh, and I could care less if your convinced, or not.

Well okay then..? I wasn’t asking you to convince me in a smug way. I was legitimately interested.

But

...

anyway 

Yeah, I’m just looking for insight on everyone candidates. I feel like it would be refreshing to read different articles, angles or reasoning behind why everyone is high on a particular candidate.

its thought provoking and makes for decent conversation being that there isn’t much else to see here other than fire Bowles threads. Might as well talk about what happens after the firing.

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50 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

So who do you want? Make a case for that person.

 

i want to hear some convincing posts on people’s candidates.

Dave Toub: Assistant head coach Kansas City chiefs

Toub has been regarded as one of the best special team coordinators in the league for years. With the Eagles in 01-04, bears from 04-13, and the chiefs from 13-present. 

Hes worked with Andy Reid twice  now. Reid is a offensive genius and easily a top 5 coach in this league. I would love to poach his  right hand man.

Also andy Reid's coaching tree is pretty impressive  IMO and I think we should try to pick from it. Heres a few as examples...

John harbough (who was also a special teams coordinator)

Ron Rivera 

Doug pederson

Matt Nagy

Sean McDermott

Brad childress

Steve spagnoulu

If you want to find out more about him I suggest this article

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/05/dave-toub-kansas-city-chiefs-2018-nfl-coaching-carousel
 

 

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1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

John Harbaugh, and I could care less if your convinced, or not.

John Harbaugh - HC

Jim Caldwell - OC

Gregg Williams (if he's fired) - DC

That's my ideal staff right now.  I highly doubt it's what we get though :(.

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5 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Dave Toub: Assistant head coach Kansas City chiefs

Toub has been regarded as one of the best special team coordinators in the league for years. With the Eagles in 01-04, bears from 04-13, and the chiefs from 13-present. 

Hes worked with Andy Reid twice  now. Reid is a offensive genius and easily a top 5 coach in this league. I would love to poach his  right hand man.

Also andy Reid's coaching tree is pretty impressive  IMO and I think we should try to pick from it. Heres a few as examples...

John harbough (who was also a special teams coordinator)

Ron Rivera 

Doug pederson

Matt Nagy

Sean McDermott

Brad childress

Steve spagnoulu

If you want to find out more about him I suggest this article

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/05/dave-toub-kansas-city-chiefs-2018-nfl-coaching-carousel
 

 

I'd absolutely take Toub.

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8 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Dave Toub: Assistant head coach Kansas City chiefs

Toub has been regarded as one of the best special team coordinators in the league for years. With the Eagles in 01-04, bears from 04-13, and the chiefs from 13-present. 

Hes worked with Andy Reid twice  now. Reid is a offensive genius and easily a top 5 coach in this league. I would love to poach his  right hand man.

Also andy Reid's coaching tree is pretty impressive  IMO and I think we should try to pick from it. Heres a few as examples...

John harbough (who was also a special teams coordinator)

Ron Rivera 

Doug pederson

Matt Nagy

Sean McDermott

Brad childress

Steve spagnoulu

If you want to find out more about him I suggest this article

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/05/dave-toub-kansas-city-chiefs-2018-nfl-coaching-carousel
 

 

Great post and thanks for the article. I like this guy. I’m reading up on him now. Super interesting candidate choice here. Check this out..

 

 

“It won’t drive season ticket sales. The push to find the next 31-year-old wunderkind is on.

So why does Toub’s name keep coming up?

Here’s a handful of coaches who have started out on special teams: Marv Levy, Bill Cowher, Bill Belichick, John Harbaugh, Dick Vermeil and Mike Ditka. All of them have reached or won the Super Bowl.”

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6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I'd absolutely take Toub.

He seems like a damn good candidate. But I wonder how he is with offense though? It’s easy to see that he’s been around great offenses with Reid and Reid’s coaching tree does good but he’d probably have to hire and completely depend on staff to run the offense/defense and mold Darnold, no?

bout to check into his coaching background now.

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I just had to post the article it’s great.

Coaching Candidate 2018: Is Dave Toub the Best Coordinator You've Never Heard Of?

Here’s a dull story about a simple conversation:When Dave Toub first became a special teams coordinator in 2004 with the Chicago Bears, he walked up to longsnapper Patrick Mannelly and asked him how he did what he did.

Fourteen years later, the coach’s approach still resonates with Mannelly. Toub was inquisitive without exposing his naiveté (after all, most special teams coordinators were never kickers, punters or snappers). He resisted the urge to tell Mannelly what he should be doing differently. He was genuine and he was interested.

First impressions are everything for a new coach and Mannelly, who has appeared in more Bears games than any player in franchise history, noted that Toub didn’t come across as trying to be someone he wasn’t. There was no gimmick or shtick. He wanted to coach football—eventually lead his own NFL team—and his philosophy was simple: Learn how to motivate your players collectively and individually. Always let people know where they stand.  

“Honestly, he’s just kind of a boring football guy,” Mannelly said. “He truly is. There’s not anything where it’s like—Oh, he paints!—or something like that. He’s just  ... it’s football 24/7 with him. He’s a great family man, I know that, but he’s a football guy. There’s no story there about his love for antiques.

“Guys just gravitate to him. They listen to him. They respect him.”  

This offseason, the pool of potential head coaches includes Super Bowl champions, rocket scientists and brand name second-chancers angling for one last shot. But it also includes Toub, a soft-spoken, 55-year-old from the Hudson Valley who may just be the best chance any special teams coordinator has of jumping directly into a head coaching seat this decade. He’ll draw interest from the Indianapolis Colts, potentially reuniting with former Chiefs personnel man Chris Ballard, which will continue a two-year streak that has included interviews with the Los Angeles Chargers and Denver Broncos in 2017. Toub also interviewed with the Dolphins in 2012 and the Bears in ’13.

Around the league, analysts will line up to suggest that a special teams coordinator cannot elevate to the head coaching gig anymore. It’s hard for them to accumulate an offensive and defensive staff. It’s hard for ownership to sell the hire. It won’t drive season ticket sales. The push to find the next 31-year-old wunderkind is on.

So why does Toub’s name keep coming up?

Here’s a handful of coaches who have started out on special teams: Marv Levy, Bill Cowher, Bill Belichick, John Harbaugh, Dick Vermeil and Mike Ditka. All of them have reached or won the Super Bowl.

When Cowher was head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, he often bounced into offensive and defensive meetings on a whim. But special teams was important to him; he can count the number of special teams meetings he missed on one hand. He never saved special teams until the end of practice like most coaches, instead placing it directly in the middle of each workout. He always felt a direct line between coordinating a scattershot collection of bottom-roster players and leading the entire team.

When you think about the special teams coach, outside of the head coach, you’re the only person on staff who is speaking to the whole team,” Cowher, an analyst on CBS’s The NFL Today, said. “A lot of what you’re doing is more about motivation than it is schematic. And as a head coach, that’s what you’re trying to do as well.”

Cowher understood the perception, and eventually moved to defensive backs coach to get on the defensive coordinator track. Belichick made a similar move, but was simultaneously the Giants’ linebackers coach and special teams coordinator from 1980-84 before becoming a defensive coordinator in 1985. Harbaugh, after serving as the Eagles’ special teams coordinator for almost a decade, took a one-year stint as defensive backs coach before becoming the Ravens’ head coach.

It seems odd that a one-year stint as a position coach made the difference for Harbaugh, who has gone 94-66 in 10 years as Ravens head coach, including a 10-5 record in the playoffs and a Super Bowl win. He was in charge of fewer players. Theoretically, he had less of an effect on the game.

Cowher said he’s long understood that a special teams unit can speak for an entire team just like a vaunted offense. Motivated players are motivated players. Toub’s unit in Kansas City has finished in the top eight of Dallas Morning News’s special teams ranking in every season of the Andy Reid era. Teams are still repurposing his plays from the Devin Hester years in Chicago, where the return man led the league in return touchdowns in four of their seven seasons together, and kick return touchdowns in two even when every opponent was doing their best to simply kick away from him.

“Everybody wants to get the offensive minded guy to come in and coach up their quarterback, but at the same time good head coaches aren’t must good offensive minds and good defensive minds. Good head coaches, they manipulate the whole building,” Cowher said. “They provide direction, they provide structure. They provide accountability. And that’s what you want out of a special teams coordinator anyway.”

Here’s a memory from one of Toub’s old co-workers in personnel: When they had a meeting about drafting players and Toub placed a star next to a name, he often floated up the board.

“Sh--, I don’t think—like the kickers? He never missed on a player. If he tells you a guy can kick in the league, take it to the bank. He’ll find guys, if you’re set at the position, we were still going to bring in a guy he liked and get him some exposure in the preseason,” Greg Gabriel, the Bears’ longtime director of college scouting, said.

Gabriel, like many of Toub’s close friends around the league, has done his best to paint the picture of a complete coach. The bias against special teams coordinators is one of the NFL’s few remaining head scratchers. Some teams almost cyclically fall in love with destined-to-fail college head coaches. How many times has the “hard-nosed defensive coordinator” flamed out in recent years?

As the league gets younger and rosters churn at a higher rate than ever before, they wonder what will serve a team best—someone with a reputation for coaching good quarterbacks, who won’t be able to spend all their time with quarterbacks anyway, or someone who can have a simple, boring conversation with just about anyone and leave them remembering it more than a decade later? Here’s the thing: So many NFL regimes, the Giants being the latest, came to an end because those talks weren't happening; because the quarterback guru stayed with the quarterback instead of learning something about the other 52 players on his team.  

“I personally feel that this is the year that, not only is he a good candidate but he actually gets it this year,” Gabriel said. “He’s been through the interview process in the past. When you look at his resume, he’s been the top special teams coordinator in the league for like forever. He’s held coordinator positions longer than any of these other candidates have been coordinators. He’s from the Andy Reid tree, and the history of those guys having success as coaches is tremendous.

“Talk to anyone he’s ever worked with or coached and they’ll say the same thing. This guy deserves to be a head coach.”

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I haven't totally soured on Lafleur...I just don't think he's ready.  If it were up to me, I would pass on him as of today.

Pete Carmichael Jr. or Dan Cambell from the Saints are two of my rising candidates.  My only issue with Campbell is that he admitted to not holding players accountable in his brief interim stint with Miami.  He claims that he's learned from it, however, coming off of Bowles, it's enough of a red flag for me to be concerned.  Obviously the concern with Carmichael is that you worry that it is all Payton and Brees running the show, but I think he's a stud in his own right.  Another far fetched, yet still relevant, concern with these two is if Sean Payton advises them to blow us off after the way we treated John Morton.  Truthfully, I doubt it would be an issue, but it's something to ponder.

I still believe in DeFilippo, but the way the Vikings offense has functioned this year has given me pause.  Ill try and defend him for the skae of making an argument for him.  On one hand, yes they're loaded and the record doesn't reflect that...however, Thielen is having an unbelievable year and so is Diggs.  Their O-Line is in total shambles, they've been operating with a revolving door of RBs all year long, and their defense has cost them games far more than the offense has, something that wasn't an issue last year.  Despite all of these issues, Cousins is posting career year stats, including a completion percentage of 71.3%.  That is insanely impressive.  However, the glaring problem for the team is their, more specifically, Kirk's, issues against winning teams.  I can't explain them.  It's something that is going to be discussed all off-season for the Vikings.  However, this issue with Cousins is something that goes back to his days in Washington DC.  All in all, gun to my head, I think DeFilippo can be the guy we need.  He's been around great coaches, one of which won a Super Bowl in the modern era, and his work with QBs speaks for itself.  While Vikings fans aren't sold on him, Eagles fans I know have been begging for him to miss out on a job and come back.  Everything floating around out there says that he's on the very top of our list too.

I've said my piece on John Harbaugh above.  If his brother is fired from Michigan, write him a blank check.

Those are my top guys for right now.  It's gonna flip a bit and some others will, likely, make the list.  Good thread though @Patriot Killa.  Brings some discussion to the board that is fun during a not-so-fun time of the year for us as fans.

 

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22 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He seems like a damn good candidate. But I wonder how he is with offense though? It’s easy to see that he’s been around great offenses with Reid and Reid’s coaching tree does good but he’d probably have to hire and completely depend on staff to run the offense/defense and mold Darnold, no?

bout to check into his coaching background now.

With the Head Coaching position being more of an "all around" job, it's less about finding a "specialist" and more about finding a CEO.  Bowles attempted to do this after 2015, even stating that he wanted to be more hands off and delegate so that he could focus more on HC duties.  The thought process was absolutely correct, however, the guys he chose and how he decided to micromanage (firing Morton for not running, keeping Kacy Rodgers because they are friends) was totally wrong.  That and his failure to grow into that CEO mold and advance I'm things like adjustments, clock management, etc., will be the story of Bowles's downfall.  The thing about Toub is that he does already have some experience with these "CEO" HC duties in his Assistant Head Coach job.  Especially because Andy is so involved on offense, he relies heavily on Toub to take care of the day-to-day if he needs to focus on the offense a bit more intimately.  

One thing I always liked about Special Team's coaches is that they spend a ton of time learning about personnel too. 

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20 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I haven't totally soured on Lafleur...I just don't think he's ready.  If it were up to me, I would pass on him as of today.

Pete Carmichael Jr. or Dan Cambell from the Saints are two of my rising candidates.  My only issue with Campbell is that he admitted to not holding players accountable in his brief interim stint with Miami.  He claims that he's learned from it, however, coming off of Bowles, it's enough of a red flag for me.to be concerned.  Another far fetched, yet still relevant, concern with these two is if Sean Payton advises them to blow us off after the way we treated John Morton.  Truthfully, I doubt it would be an issue, but it's something to ponder for the sake of discussion.

I still believe in DeFilippo, but the way the Vikings offense has functioned this year has given me pause.  On one hand, yes they're loaded...however, Thielen is having an unbelievable year and so is Diggs.  Their O-Line is in total shambles, they've been operating with a revolving door of RBs all year long, and their defense has cost them games far more than the offense has, something that wasn't an issue last year.  Despite all of these issues, Cousins is posting career year stats, including a completion percentage of 71.3%.  That is insanely impressive.  However, the glaring problem for the team is their, more specifically, Kirk's, issues against winning teams.  I can't explain them.  It's something that is going to be discussed all off-season for the Vikings.  However, this issue with Cousins is something that goes back to his days in Washington DC.  All in all, gun to my head, I think DeFilippo can be the guy we need.  He's been around great coaches, one of which won a Super Bowl in the modern era, and his work with QBs speaks for itself.  While Vikings fans aren't sold on him, Eagles fans I know have been begging for him to miss out on a job and come back.  Everything floating around out there says that he's on the very top of our list too.

I've said my piece on John Harbaugh above.  If his brother is fired from Michigan, write him a blank check.

Those are my top guys for right now.  It's gonna flip a bit and some others will, likely, make the list.  Good thread though @Patriot Killa.  Brings some fun and discussion to the board that is fun during a not-so-fun time of the year for us as fans.

 

I agree, even though LaFleur’s offense has looked pretty stagnant as of late, he did turn up the heat on us in the second half. I don’t really like Mariota as a FQB and while they don’t need OBJ and Barkley to be a good offense..it just feels like the weapons they have right now aren’t very good. He’s doing decent fwiw. He’s a guy that I think needs a few more years at OC before he jumps into HC but I wouldn’t hate it if he interviewed.

DeFillipo is sort of the same for me. Really respect his offensive mind and he can scheme up some plays but think he may need a few more years as the man at OC before he tries HC. Gun against my head - leave him in Minny or take him in NY.. I still might just take the guy. I think he’s a really talented X’s and O’s coach. I think he’s creative and I’m about where you are with the “weapons” argument against him. Minny may not have nearly as good of a record as they did last year but their offensive stats are far better than they were last year. Only thing you could say if you wanted to play devils advocate with that is.. Pat Shurmer isn’t doing nearly as good with the Giants after he had such a great year coaching the Vikings offense last year and the Giants DO have a good amount of weapons too. So it’s hard to gauge what the catalyst to this is...is it Adam Thielen, Diggs and Cousins? Idk. But I do know that DeFilippo is an extremely good coach regardless. But as the Toub article explains, it’s more to finding a successful HC than plucking an offensive minded guy and running with it. He has to be able to have that certain personality, ability to have balance, team structure and everything else. Does DeFilippo? Who knows. He’s never been coach and he’s finally an OC in the NFL. I find myself in the middle on this hire all the time.

Pete Carmichael is an interesting one too. Really is. I need to look up more about him but his name keeps popping up and he’s been under Payton for a very long time.

I can’t get over how intrigued I am by David Toub now though. That was an awesome find @Darnold Schwarzenegger I would just hope that he’d be able to get us the proper coaches to take care of Darnold and be creative on O. I think he would being that he’s been around Reid forever and he’s learning how to HC. Might even be able to get some KC guys to come with him. Like you said..Head Coaching is really a “CEO” responsibility. An “all around” mentality. Yeah, I think Davis Toub would be great.

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53 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Dave Toub: Assistant head coach Kansas City chiefs

Toub has been regarded as one of the best special team coordinators in the league for years. With the Eagles in 01-04, bears from 04-13, and the chiefs from 13-present. 

Hes worked with Andy Reid twice  now. Reid is a offensive genius and easily a top 5 coach in this league. I would love to poach his  right hand man.

Also andy Reid's coaching tree is pretty impressive  IMO and I think we should try to pick from it. Heres a few as examples...

John harbough (who was also a special teams coordinator)

Ron Rivera 

Doug pederson

Matt Nagy

Sean McDermott

Brad childress

Steve spagnoulu

If you want to find out more about him I suggest this article

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/01/05/dave-toub-kansas-city-chiefs-2018-nfl-coaching-carousel
 

 

I have been saying for a very long time, that I love the idea of a a special teams coordinator as the head coach. Several reasons: 

1. He speaks to the entire team

2. He knows how to adapt his system and coaching to the strengths of the players he has

3. He is skilled at adjusting for lost players

4. He tends to be more balanced on the approach to both sides of the ball and maintains a focus on staying excellent at special teams

5. He has little if any bias to prevent him from hiring the best coordinators.

I would be OK with this hire depending on rest on staff.

I do not really want any retread head coach especially the following: ANY Harbaugh, McCarthy. Cowher, Pagano, Caldwell, Fisher, pretty much ANY defensive coordinator.  I just think the NFL has passed these guys.

We need a coach that will run a 2018 offense, develop Darnold and other players, while maintaining balance on the team. Someone who will be aggressive, and will hire coordinators that teach. Someone that is adaptable.

Im not sure who that is, but it is definitely NOT a Harbaugh or McCarthy who literally runs a 30 year old offense. 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have been saying for a very long time, that I love the idea of a a special teams coordinator as the head coach. Several reasons: 

1. He speaks to the entire team

2. He knows how to adapt his system and coaching to the strengths of the players he has

3. He is skilled at adjusting for lost players

4. He tends to be more balanced on the approach to both sides of the ball and maintains a focus on staying excellent at special teams

5. He has little if any bias to prevent him from hiring the best coordinators.

I would be OK with this hire depending on rest on staff.

I do not really want any retread head coach especially the following: ANY Harbaugh, McCarthy. Cowher, Pagano, Caldwell, Fisher, pretty much ANY defensive coordinator.  I just think the NFL has passed these guys.

We need a coach that will run a 2018 offense, develop Darnold and other players, while maintaining balance on the team. Someone who will be aggressive, and will hire coordinators that teach. Someone that is adaptable.

Im not sure who that is, but it is definitely NOT a Harbaugh or McCarthy who literally runs a 30 year old offense. 

 

 

 

Good input, thank you. Really warming up to the idea of a ST coach. Maybe Westoff could of been that guy years ago when we fired Rex but we missed out. As you said though — really also depends on the coaching staff that is assembled.

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2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

John Harbaugh - HC

Gary Kubiak- OC

Gregg Williams (if he's fired) - DC

That's my ideal staff right now.  I highly doubt it's what we get though :(.

Fixed the OC for you, and I’m cool with Pagano as DC, but Williams is more then fan as well.

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2 hours ago, DLJ said:

Enough with the retreads

He couldn’t win with God QB he’s supposed to come in here and mold Darnold? No thanks


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Since when have jets hired a retread? Oh right 1997. Since Parcells no NYJ coach has been a HC at ANY level. Enough with the retreads? I think we should be demanding someone with experience.

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LET ME SELL YOU ON JACK DEL RIO

—Woody Johnson likely knows his NAME

—Stout CHIN and gleaming blue eyes to impress in interviews

—eminently thirsty for a last paycheck

—Can swap Qanon theories with Woody. 

—Will promise to build a team from the trenches OUT.

—MUSKY

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Just a thought.......

The Packers fire a SB winning HC in mid season because he is incompetent but on the other hand  the Jets must keep their Poorly performing HC because they want to maintain the ongoing mediocrity that their HC has firmly established.  

You cant make it up!!

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4 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Just a thought.......

The Packers fire a SB winning HC in mid season because he is incompetent but on the other hand  the Jets must keep their Poorly performing HC because they want to maintain the ongoing mediocrity that their HC has firmly established.  

You cant make it up!!

The Packers can get away with it because people will still want to coach the Packers

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6 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

I want Mike Westhoff.

He's an OLD-School HARDASS that will hold his players accountable. If you don't TRUST him as a HC, then place him as the vaunted "FOOTBALL CZAR" that so many here are clamoring for and let him choose the "football people" from GM on down. 

I never wanted him as a HC in the past when he was a consideration, but at this point his sense of telling-it-like-it-is and holding people accountable would go a long way with the fanbase.

He's fiery and probably has a chip on his shoulder with something to prove. 

Than MAN HUNTS SHARKS WITH A TITANIUM LEG after having BEATEN CANCER with his BARE HANDS!

I would've loved this a few years ago but isn't he too old at this point?  It was a shame he never got a chance.

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12 minutes ago, Larz said:

Nobody that is any good is coming here 

Sooner you accept it the better 

Agree.  The jets are a hot mess with bad ownership and a lousy GM.  None of the big names or hot assistants will want to come here

 

Give Joe Lombardi the Saints QB coach a shot.  

 

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My top two choices are Carmichael and Toub. I wouldn’t mind DeFilippo but think he could use some more time.

With Carmichael and Toub, when you listen to them talk football, they just seem ready to have the lead job. Carmichael seems knowledgeable on the draft process and seems like a guy who can work well with Macc (he’s not getting fired unfortunately). 

Regardless of the choice, they will need to build a good staff. Both come from good trees and likely will have access to top coaches particularly on the offensive side.

 

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I would consider McCarthy IF in this downtime he "re-invents himself" like Reid did in KC.
If he acknowledges that his offense has become stale and decides to bring in new coaches/
concepts I would be fine with him

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i don't see why mccarthy is getting so much bad press.  teams go through bad spells and 13 years is a long time to be a head coach.  look how long it took for the cowboys or dolfins to finally move away from shula and landry.  and look how klingons like marvin lewis keep their jobs wihout much success beyond making the playoffs.

maybe mccarthy isn't the right guy but he should be in the mix.

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