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Dave Toub(Assistant HC/Kansas City)


Patriot Killa

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This article was posted in the “convince me” thread and it intrigued me so much that I thought I’d put it in the spotlight and give it a thread. Do you think Toub is a legitimate HC Candidate? Do you think a former ST coach makes sense? He’s worked under Reid twice and was promoted to Assistant HC last offseason. Any NFL job he has held, he held the job down for a long amount of time in the sports world.  He was the guy behind Devin Hester in CHI also. I think finding a “specialist” may be overrated. Check this article out.

Coaching Candidate 2018: Is Dave Toub the Best Coordinator You've Never Heard Of?

Here’s a dull story about a simple conversation:When Dave Toub first became a special teams coordinator in 2004 with the Chicago Bears, he walked up to longsnapper Patrick Mannelly and asked him how he did what he did.

Fourteen years later, the coach’s approach still resonates with Mannelly. Toub was inquisitive without exposing his naiveté (after all, most special teams coordinators were never kickers, punters or snappers). He resisted the urge to tell Mannelly what he should be doing differently. He was genuine and he was interested.

First impressions are everything for a new coach and Mannelly, who has appeared in more Bears games than any player in franchise history, noted that Toub didn’t come across as trying to be someone he wasn’t. There was no gimmick or shtick. He wanted to coach football—eventually lead his own NFL team—and his philosophy was simple: Learn how to motivate your players collectively and individually. Always let people know where they stand.  

Honestly, he’s just kind of a boring football guy,” Mannelly said. “He truly is. There’s not anything where it’s like—Oh, he paints!—or something like that. He’s just  ... it’s football 24/7 with him. He’s a great family man, I know that, but he’s a football guy. There’s no story there about his love for antiques.

“Guys just gravitate to him. They listen to him. They respect him.”  

This offseason, the pool of potential head coaches includes Super Bowl champions, rocket scientists and brand name second-chancers angling for one last shot. But it also includes Toub, a soft-spoken, 55-year-old from the Hudson Valley who may just be the best chance any special teams coordinator has of jumping directly into a head coaching seat this decade. He’ll draw interest from the Indianapolis Colts, potentially reuniting with former Chiefs personnel man Chris Ballard, which will continue a two-year streak that has included interviews with the Los Angeles Chargers and Denver Broncos in 2017. Toub also interviewed with the Dolphins in 2012 and the Bears in ’13.

Around the league, analysts will line up to suggest that a special teams coordinator cannot elevate to the head coaching gig anymore. It’s hard for them to accumulate an offensive and defensive staff. It’s hard for ownership to sell the hire. It won’t drive season ticket sales. The push to find the next 31-year-old wunderkind is on.

So why does Toub’s name keep coming up?

Here’s a handful of coaches who have started out on special teams: Marv Levy, Bill Cowher, Bill Belichick, John Harbaugh, Dick Vermeil and Mike Ditka. All of them have reached or won the Super Bowl.

When Cowher was head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, he often bounced into offensive and defensive meetings on a whim. But special teams was important to him; he can count the number of special teams meetings he missed on one hand. He never saved special teams until the end of practice like most coaches, instead placing it directly in the middle of each workout. He always felt a direct line between coordinating a scattershot collection of bottom-roster players and leading the entire team.

“When you think about the special teams coach, outside of the head coach, you’re the only person on staff who is speaking to the whole team,” Cowher, an analyst on CBS’s The NFL Today, said. “A lot of what you’re doing is more about motivation than it is schematic. And as a head coach, that’s what you’re trying to do as well.”

Cowher understood the perception, and eventually moved to defensive backs coach to get on the defensive coordinator track. Belichick made a similar move, but was simultaneously the Giants’ linebackers coach and special teams coordinator from 1980-84 before becoming a defensive coordinator in 1985. Harbaugh, after serving as the Eagles’ special teams coordinator for almost a decade, took a one-year stint as defensive backs coach before becoming the Ravens’ head coach.

It seems odd that a one-year stint as a position coach made the difference for Harbaugh, who has gone 94-66 in 10 years as Ravens head coach, including a 10-5 record in the playoffs and a Super Bowl win. He was in charge of fewer players. Theoretically, he had less of an effect on the game.

Cowher said he’s long understood that a special teams unit can speak for an entire team just like a vaunted offense. Motivated players are motivated players. Toub’s unit in Kansas City has finished in the top eight of Dallas Morning News’s special teams ranking in every season of the Andy Reid era. Teams are still repurposing his plays from the Devin Hester years in Chicago, where the return man led the league in return touchdowns in four of their seven seasons together, and kick return touchdowns in two even when every opponent was doing their best to simply kick away from him.

“Everybody wants to get the offensive minded guy to come in and coach up their quarterback, but at the same time good head coaches aren’t must good offensive minds and good defensive minds. Good head coaches, they manipulate the whole building,” Cowher said. “They provide direction, they provide structure. They provide accountability. And that’s what you want out of a special teams coordinator anyway.”

Here’s a memory from one of Toub’s old co-workers in personnel: When they had a meeting about drafting players and Toub placed a star next to a name, he often floated up the board.

“Sh--, I don’t think—like the kickers? He never missed on a player. If he tells you a guy can kick in the league, take it to the bank. He’ll find guys, if you’re set at the position, we were still going to bring in a guy he liked and get him some exposure in the preseason,” Greg Gabriel, the Bears’ longtime director of college scouting, said.

Gabriel, like many of Toub’s close friends around the league, has done his best to paint the picture of a complete coach. The bias against special teams coordinators is one of the NFL’s few remaining head scratchers. Some teams almost cyclically fall in love with destined-to-fail college head coaches. How many times has the “hard-nosed defensive coordinator” flamed out in recent years?

As the league gets younger and rosters churn at a higher rate than ever before, they wonder what will serve a team best—someone with a reputation for coaching good quarterbacks, who won’t be able to spend all their time with quarterbacks anyway, or someone who can have a simple, boring conversation with just about anyone and leave them remembering it more than a decade later? Here’s the thing: So many NFL regimes, the Giants being the latest, came to an end because those talks weren't happening; because the quarterback guru stayed with the quarterback instead of learning something about the other 52 players on his team.  

“I personally feel that this is the year that, not only is he a good candidate but he actually gets it this year,” Gabriel said. “He’s been through the interview process in the past. When you look at his resume, he’s been the top special teams coordinator in the league for like forever. He’s held coordinator positions longer than any of these other candidates have been coordinators. He’s from the Andy Reid tree, and the history of those guys having success as coaches is tremendous.

“Talk to anyone he’s ever worked with or coached and they’ll say the same thing. This guy deserves to be a head coach.”

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Chiefs add 'assistant head coach' to Dave Toub's job title

Chiefs coach Andy Reid has promoted special teams coach Dave Toub to assistant head coach, the club announced Friday.

Toub, 55, will retain his special teams duties. 

“Dave has had the opportunity to work with our team on both sides of the football, on the field, and in the classroom,” Reid said in a statement. “His leadership qualities have entrusted me to promote him to assistant head coach.” 

Toub has been on the Chiefs' staff since Andy Reid arrived before the 2013 season. Since then, he has burnished his reputation as one of the finest special teams coaches in the game.

Toub's special teams units have ranked among the best in the league. He has been interviewed for a handful of head coaching jobs since coming to Kansas City, most recently with the Los Angeles Chargers and Denver Broncos a year ago.

Toub replaces Brad Childress in the assistant head coach role. Childress, a longtime Reid assistant, briefly retired in January before joining the staff of new Chicago Bears head coach — and former Chiefs offensive coordinator — Matt Nagy. Childress is Nagy's offensive consultant..

The Chiefs also this week announced the promotion of head athletic trainer Rick Burkholder to vice president of sports medicine and performance. He will continue to oversee the team's athletic training staff and will add oversight of the strength and conditioning and equipment departments to his responsibilities.

 
 
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Jets Coaching Candidate of the Day: Dave Toub

With Todd Bowles likely on the way out at the end of the season, we are going to take a look at some of the potential candidates to replace him. Whenever we do something like this, there are some typical criticisms that always pop up like, “Why profile this guy? He stinks!” and “He won’t be interested.” We aren’t just profiling the good candidates or suggesting these people are all likely to take the job. We are simply looking at people the Jets could reasonably expected to call.

Today’s candidate: Dave Toub

Category: NFL Assistant

Current Job: Kansas City Chiefs Assistant Head Coach and Special Teams Coordinator

Years of NFL Coaching Experience: 18

Head Coaching Experience: None

Ties to Jets: None

Pros:

  • Outstanding coach. His special teams units in Chicago and Kansas City have been in the top ten of Football Outsiders’ DVOA every year since 2006.
  • Highly respected in the league.
  • Has worked in major markets like Chicago and Philadelphia, which at least have given him a taste for the pressures of New York.
  • Part of the Andy Reid coaching tree.
  • Current job in Kansas City gives him access to the pipeline of Chiefs coaches as he builds his staff on the offensive side of the ball.

Cons:

  • Has never been a head coach before.
  • Hiring him wouldn’t generate a ton of hype.

The Bottom Line:

I think I gave it away a bit with the cons. There are only two, and the part about not generating much hype SHOULD have zero impact on the coaching search. It should be about finding the best possible coach.

I think in the Jets’ situation people frequently mistake searching for a head coach with searching for an offensive coordinator. I get that. The Jets have been bad on offense for a long time. They have hired mostly coaches from the defensive side of the ball. And now they have a young quarterback to develop.

The thing is there isn’t much correlation between hiring an offensive coordinator and having success. A lot of the great quarterbacks in the league developed under head coaches without a defensive background, and plenty of offensive coordinators turned head coach have whiffed at trying to develop young quarterbacks.

There is an odd bias in the NFL against hiring special teams coordinators as head coaches. For years everybody who followed the Jets knew Mike Westhoff was the best coach of the staff. Whenever the Jets had a coaching vacancy, however, he’d get nothing more than a token interview. It’s odd because unlike offensive and defensive coordinators, special teams coordinators work with players on both sides of the ball and have to come up with creative ways to utilize players at the bottom of the roster. That’s pretty good training for a head coaching job.

Jason LaCanfora also spelled out the case for Toub two years ago.

A personnel exec who used to work with Toub, 54, said: “If Dave Toub can’t get a job in this league, then I give up. Talk to other coaches in the league. They know who is for real and who is horsesh*t or the flavor of the month. This guy can coach a football team. He’d be the first guy I’d talk to, and it isn’t even really close.”

It really is kind of amazing how much these searches are based on hype. Owners want to be able to sell the next hot coach running a designer system. What they really should do is find the best leader for their team.

I couldn’t guarantee you that Dave Toub is the next great NFL head coach. Some guys just aren’t capable of successfully moving from assistant into the head job, even if they are widely respected in the league (Todd Bowles).

I can tell you, however, that I would be very optimistic if this was the hire the Jets made. It seems like everybody in the know in the NFL raves about what a great coach Toub is.

And if you want that designer offense, Toub happens to be employed by the team with the best scheme in the league. If he is half as good as people say he is, I’m sure he’d bring over some colleagues to import that system.

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17 minutes ago, King P said:

I like Toub as well as Bieniemy. Would be fine with either of them

Same. I think Toub deserves his shot. And he’ll probably bring someone like Bieniemy on board if anything. He’s been around great offense and he’s seen Pat Mahomes be groomed first hand. Both of them have. He’ll know what needs to be done and who needs to be in charge of fixing the offense. Doug Pederson, Matt Nagy, ect. have all had a chance to show how it’s done.

He also seems to have an eye for talent. I’d be giddy if we hired Dave Toub.

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53 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Jets Coaching Candidate of the Day: Dave Toub

With Todd Bowles likely on the way out at the end of the season, we are going to take a look at some of the potential candidates to replace him. Whenever we do something like this, there are some typical criticisms that always pop up like, “Why profile this guy? He stinks!” and “He won’t be interested.” We aren’t just profiling the good candidates or suggesting these people are all likely to take the job. We are simply looking at people the Jets could reasonably expected to call.

Today’s candidate: Dave Toub

Category: NFL Assistant

Current Job: Kansas City Chiefs Assistant Head Coach and Special Teams Coordinator

Years of NFL Coaching Experience: 18

Head Coaching Experience: None

Ties to Jets: None

Pros:

  • Outstanding coach. His special teams units in Chicago and Kansas City have been in the top ten of Football Outsiders’ DVOA every year since 2006.
  • Highly respected in the league.
  • Has worked in major markets like Chicago and Philadelphia, which at least have given him a taste for the pressures of New York.
  • Part of the Andy Reid coaching tree.
  • Current job in Kansas City gives him access to the pipeline of Chiefs coaches as he builds his staff on the offensive side of the ball.

Cons:

  • Has never been a head coach before.
  • Hiring him wouldn’t generate a ton of hype.

The Bottom Line:

I think I gave it away a bit with the cons. There are only two, and the part about not generating much hype SHOULD have zero impact on the coaching search. It should be about finding the best possible coach.

I think in the Jets’ situation people frequently mistake searching for a head coach with searching for an offensive coordinator. I get that. The Jets have been bad on offense for a long time. They have hired mostly coaches from the defensive side of the ball. And now they have a young quarterback to develop.

The thing is there isn’t much correlation between hiring an offensive coordinator and having success. A lot of the great quarterbacks in the league developed under head coaches without a defensive background, and plenty of offensive coordinators turned head coach have whiffed at trying to develop young quarterbacks.

There is an odd bias in the NFL against hiring special teams coordinators as head coaches. For years everybody who followed the Jets knew Mike Westhoff was the best coach of the staff. Whenever the Jets had a coaching vacancy, however, he’d get nothing more than a token interview. It’s odd because unlike offensive and defensive coordinators, special teams coordinators work with players on both sides of the ball and have to come up with creative ways to utilize players at the bottom of the roster. That’s pretty good training for a head coaching job.

Jason LaCanfora also spelled out the case for Toub two years ago.

A personnel exec who used to work with Toub, 54, said: “If Dave Toub can’t get a job in this league, then I give up. Talk to other coaches in the league. They know who is for real and who is horsesh*t or the flavor of the month. This guy can coach a football team. He’d be the first guy I’d talk to, and it isn’t even really close.”

It really is kind of amazing how much these searches are based on hype. Owners want to be able to sell the next hot coach running a designer system. What they really should do is find the best leader for their team.

I couldn’t guarantee you that Dave Toub is the next great NFL head coach. Some guys just aren’t capable of successfully moving from assistant into the head job, even if they are widely respected in the league (Todd Bowles).

I can tell you, however, that I would be very optimistic if this was the hire the Jets made. It seems like everybody in the know in the NFL raves about what a great coach Toub is.

And if you want that designer offense, Toub happens to be employed by the team with the best scheme in the league. If he is half as good as people say he is, I’m sure he’d bring over some colleagues to import that system.

I have to admit, this was really well done. I learned a lot about a coach I didn’t really know about before tonight. The Cowher quotes sold me on how senseless it seems to have been for teams to ignore guys like Toub and Westhoff. How ironic would it be if the coach the Jets had been trying so hard to find for so many years was right there in the building all along?

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36 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I have to admit, this was really well done. I learned a lot about a coach I didn’t really know about before tonight. The Cowher quotes sold me on how senseless it seems to have been for teams to ignore guys like Toub and Westhoff. How ironic would it be if the coach the Jets had been trying so hard to find for so many years was right there in the building all along?

Seriously. It seems like it just doesn’t get enough push with fans, GM’s, ect but ST coordinators really do naturally have more balance and a further understanding of how to speak to an entire team, as it is a huge part of being a head coach.

Too many times do flavor of the month offensive/defensive specialist burn out because they don’t understand how to manage the entire team — we’ve seen it with Rex, Bowles and countless other coaches on other teams. I think the fact that he was given the Assistant HC job was partly Reid’s way of telling other teams that the guy, after 18 long successful years, is ready for his shot at running a team. I think he was also given the job because Reid knows that the experience is invaluable for him and his time will come soon, he wants Toub to be ready. Reid loves the guy and thinks the world of him. KC thinks the world of him. Says he’s a very fine leader, he’s passionate, he’s well calculated, he’s bright and he’s vocal. I could see the guy on the sidelines with a headset on and I think a big reason why he hasn’t yet is because he’s a ST coordinator.

 

check this out, this is the Chiefs punter talking with media about Dave Toub’s ability to scheme and how he think’s ST coaches can make really good HC’s and that Andy really trusts Dave. He starts talking about him at about 1:30 into the video.

 

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22 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

It’s odd because unlike offensive and defensive coordinators, special teams coordinators work with players on both sides of the ball and have to come up with creative ways to utilize players at the bottom of the roster. That’s pretty good training for a head coaching job.

This part really perked my ears up, too. And just further puts what I previously said into better words.

I really hope the Jets consider the guy when it comes time to make phone calls.

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These two Pro's have me interested.  A few years back we wanted Mike Westhoff to be considered for the HC job because of his success.  John Harbaugh has done well as a former Special Teams coach so Toub is intriguing. 

  • Part of the Andy Reid coaching tree.
  • Current job in Kansas City gives him access to the pipeline of Chiefs coaches as he builds his staff on the offensive side of the ball.
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This guy deserves to be considered. The problem is, it’s not a media headline hire. So the Jets probably won’t even interview him, which is a damn shame. I have no idea if this or any of these guys will be good. But, this guy seems like a deserves real consideration.

The real questions for him that will matter will be:

- what is your offensive philosophy and how do you plan to employ it?

- who are you considerinf at oc and qb coach and how do you plan on managing those coaches and the qb position?

One of many...problems with Bowles is his offensive philosophy is based in the run game. Regardless of oc/qb coach/system his whole mentality is defense and ball control.

Also, Bowles likes to stick to his system and gameplan, with few adjustments.

If Toub is forward thinking, and likes to gameplan week to week based on opponents and wants to run an offense that enables the QB to develop and succeed, and hires the right offensive coaches, I’m all for signing Toub.

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Tbh, with the state this franchise is in, I'll cling to any shiny glimmer of hope. But Taub seems very intriguing. Really enjoyed reading this article and he is now one of my favorite prospects out there. Some of the the things said about him hold a lot of weight in my mind. 

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45 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

This guy deserves to be considered. The problem is, it’s not a media headline hire. So the Jets probably won’t even interview him, which is a damn shame. I have no idea if this or any of these guys will be good. But, this guy seems like a deserves real consideration.

The real questions for him that will matter will be:

- what is your offensive philosophy and how do you plan to employ it?

- who are you considerinf at oc and qb coach and how do you plan on managing those coaches and the qb position?

One of many...problems with Bowles is his offensive philosophy is based in the run game. Regardless of oc/qb coach/system his whole mentality is defense and ball control.

Also, Bowles likes to stick to his system and gameplan, with few adjustments.

If Toub is forward thinking, and likes to gameplan week to week based on opponents and wants to run an offense that enables the QB to develop and succeed, and hires the right offensive coaches, I’m all for signing Toub.

I think this is where watching Andy Reid so closely helps ten fold. He’s in the classroom with him everyday as well as on the field right by his side every Sunday. 

He’s seeing his boy, Andy, make half time adjustments, draw up schemes, use players from the bottom of the roster and create mismatches. He’s seeing what it takes to groom a young and very raw QB in Pat Mahomes and he’s seeing how it’s suppose to be done and who is qualified as a coach to get the QB on track. So he should already come in with a sense of how those things work and be ahead of the game in that regard.

Being a top ST guy, naturally, he’s sometimes having to use bottom of the barrel players, himself and make them produce on kickoffs/punts so he already has an idea of making substitutions and getting the most out of his players.

It’ll come down to who he hires and since he comes from a place that has done it 120% correctly, produced insanely impressive/creative offensive minds turned head coaches like Nagy and Pederson...my guess is he might bring over some good KC assistants that he feels can replicate. 

The best part is that he isn’t some 32 year old hot shot but he also isn’t a dinosaur. he has a great amount of stripes in this league, he’s long prepared for a HC job and I think he’s definitely qualified now that he’s been an Assistant HC. Something tells me he’s paid attention to all the offensive guys that have been employed by Andy. Probably learned some things.

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34 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I think this is where watching Andy Reid so closely helps ten fold. He’s in the classroom with him everyday as well as on the field right by his side every Sunday. 

He’s seeing his boy, Andy, make half time adjustments, draw up schemes, use players from the bottom of the roster and create mismatches. He’s seeing what it takes to groom a young and very raw QB in Pat Mahomes and he’s seeing how it’s suppose to be done and who is qualified as a coach to get the QB on track. So he should already come in with a sense of how those things work and be ahead of the game in that regard.

Being a top ST guy, naturally, he’s sometimes having to use bottom of the barrel players, himself and make them produce on kickoffs/punts so he already has an idea of making substitutions and getting the most out of his players.

It’ll come down to who he hires and since he comes from a place that has done it 120% correctly, produced insanely impressive/creative offensive minds turned head coaches like Nagy and Pederson...my guess is he might bring over some good KC assistants that he feels can replicate. 

The best part is that he isn’t some 32 year old hot shot but he also isn’t a dinosaur. he has a great amount of stripes in this league, he’s long prepared for a HC job and I think he’s definitely qualified now that he’s been an Assistant HC. Something tells me he’s paid attention to all the offensive guys that have been employed by Andy. Probably learned some things.

I hope he’s a serious consideration. I’d like Harbaugh as he’s a more proven commodity and has done a lot with minimal talent (no super teams or elite qb on his roster ever).

I would love Toub, or Harbaugh depending who they want grooming Darnold. 

Everyone assumes Harbaugh wants some bland offense. But he hired Trestman which wasn’t a good hire obviously in hindsight lol. But at the time it was lauded around the league, and at least showed Harbaugh is open to aggressive schemes and different thinking.

But as you said Toub has had inside look at the Chiefs offense, and teaching Mahomes this year. I’d be hard pressed not to hire him.  

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13 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I hope he’s a serious consideration. I’d like Harbaugh as he’s a more proven commodity and has done a lot with minimal talent (no super teams or elite qb on his roster ever).

I would love Toub, or Harbaugh depending who they want grooming Darnold. 

Everyone assumes Harbaugh wants some bland offense. But he hired Trestman which wasn’t a good hire obviously in hindsight lol. But at the time it was lauded around the league, and at least showed Harbaugh is open to aggressive schemes and different thinking.

But as you said Toub has had inside look at the Chiefs offense, and teaching Mahomes this year. I’d be hard pressed not to hire him.  

Woody can’t make money off a name like Toub though and that’s why they won’t even call. He doesn’t care about being successful.

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I’m jaded by these searches every couple of years. This guy sounds like he has potential but I feel I read these exact articles every three-four years about potential coaches. With that said, if this guy can find a good OC and DC, I think he can succeed. I think. 

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4 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

And writers, coaches, executives, and talking heads all said great stuff about Todd Bowles before he became a HC.  Ya never know.

I understand but there are absolutely a huge difference in both coaches. Bowles was a first year hot shot DC — just like the article speaks weary about. 

Toub is a guy who has been in the league and grinding out successful seasons for 18 years. He’s way more balanced, naturally, because of his position and his current Assistant HC gig only reinforces that fact. He’s a guy who has been able to marinate under Andy and he’s well prepared for this opportunity.

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Just now, Patriot Killa said:

He’s got the same probability of doing so than anyone else if you ask me.

Maybe more.

He’s seen this done properly.

Bowles saw it done properly in Philly and Arizona, it sure as hell didn’t help him.

Toub seems like a good guy and is highly respected around the league, but the Jets absolutely have to get this hire right.

This is why for the first time I’m all about going the retread route. Get someone with past HC experience and preferably an offensive background.

If Macc is retained and Kubiak is serious about getting back into coaching, he’s a name that everyone should keep an eye on. And I wouldn’t be against it at all.

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2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Bowles saw it done properly in Philly and Arizona, it sure as hell didn’t help him.

Toub seems like a good guy and is highly respected around the league, but the Jets absolutely have to get this hire right.

This is why for the first time I’m all about going the retread route. Get someone with past HC experience and preferably an offensive background.

If Macc is retained and Kubiak is serious about getting back into coaching, he’s a name that everyone should keep an eye on. And I wouldn’t be against it at all.

But did Bowles sit under Arians as an assiant coach? Sit in the classroom? Study Ariana every move on Sunday? Did he already come in with a balanced mindset?

Hey, I don’t disagree that we have to get this one right. For the sake of Darnold. I totally understand why you want to go retread. 

I think you make a good point. However, I don’t think Toub is as risky as you do.

thats fine though. Agree to disagree. 

Think we both know that it has to be the right hire though.

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On 12/4/2018 at 8:38 AM, Patriot Killa said:

I understand but there are absolutely a huge difference in both coaches. Bowles was a first year hot shot DC — just like the article speaks weary about. 

Toub is a guy who has been in the league and grinding out successful seasons for 18 years. He’s way more balanced, naturally, because of his position and his current Assistant HC gig only reinforces that fact. He’s a guy who has been able to marinate under Andy and he’s well prepared for this opportunity.

Bowles is a terrible HC, but you understate his pre-jet resume. Before the Jets hired him Bowles had coached in the NFL for 15 years. Plus, he was an assistant HC in Miami back in 2008, and had been their interim HC. He moved up to DC in Philly after they disastrously hired an O lineman (I think?) as their DC, and then he was DC for the Cardinals for two years, and during both years the D was excellent. He also came with the Bill Parcells stamp of approval. Bottom line Bowles was an excellent candidate for a HC job. He's just not any good at it. And the fact is that you never know with any of these guys becasue being HC is far different than any other coaching position. Nothing trains you for it. And the only way to find out if someone is any good at it is to give them the job. 

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2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Bowles is a terrible HC, but you understate his pre-jet resume. Before the Jets hired him Bowles had coached in the NFL for 15 years. Plus, he was an assistant HC in Miami back in 2008, and had been their interim HC. He moved up to DC in Philly after they disastrously hired and O lineman (I think?) as their DC, and then he was DC for the Cardinals for two years, and during both years the D was excellent. He also came with the Bill Parcells stamp of approval. Bottom line Bowles was an excellent candidate for a HC job. He's just not any good at it. And the fact is that you never know with any of these guys becasue being HC is far different than any other coaching position. Nothing trains you for it. And the only way to find out if someone is any good at it is to give them the job. 

I don’t think anyone — even retreads — are sure things. They were fired for a reason.

there is risk in every HC hire. John Harbaugh, the guy that many people want, he’s a ST guy for years too. 

just saying that this can go either way and so can retreads.

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IMO the Jets should avoid any HC candidate who was a decent player in the NFL.  Fortunately, I don't think any of this year's top candidates fit that definition. It is rare for a decent to great player to become a great HC. Tony Dungy and Jim Harbaugh are the only exceptions I can think of. And Dungy couldn't figure out Offense until he was given Payton Manning. As to Harbaugh, I think he feels he underachieved as an NFL QB and has a burning desire to make his mark.

My theory is that a bad (or non) NFL player is a better candidate because they are hungry and motivated. If you had a good NFL career, you've got nothing to prove to anyone. To me, this was the one and only large warning sign in regards to Bowles hiring. 

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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

IMO the Jets should avoid any HC candidate who was a decent player in the NFL.  Fortunately, I don't think any of this year's top candidates fit that definition. It is rare for a decent to great player to become a great HC. Tony Dungy and Jim Harbaugh are the only exceptions I can think of. And Dungy couldn't figure out Offense until he was given Payton Manning. As to Harbaugh, I think he feels he underachieved as an NFL QB and has a burning desire to make his mark.

My theory is that a bad (or non) NFL player is a better candidate because they are hungry and motivated. If you had a good NFL career, you've got nothing to prove to anyone. To me, this was the one and only large warning sign in regards to Bowles hiring. 

Well if it helps Toub was selected in the 9th round  by Philly and only seen two practice squads before realizing his passion in coaching the game.

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11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I don’t think anyone — even retreads — are sure things. They were fired for a reason.

there is risk in every HC hire. John Harbaugh, the guy that many people want, he’s a ST guy for years too. 

just saying that this can go either way and so can retreads.

Don't get me wrong, I think Taub is an excellent candidate. My only point is you never know until you give a guy the job. Nothing really prepares you for it. The skill set needed is just different than all other coach positions. Frankly, someone should hire a sports psychologist to make a profile of different great HC and then I would have candidates take a test to see if they fit any of the profiles. This would be similar to what Bill Walsh's Niners did for players in their hey day.

As far as the re-treads who were fired, we know what they can do. We already saw it. No surprise Andy Reid is good. Just like we know John Harbaugh would be good. And just like we all knew Rex would be bad in Buffalo.  

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3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Don't get me wrong, I think Taub is an excellent candidate. My only point is you never know until you give a guy the job. Nothing really prepares you for it. The skill set needed is just different than all other coach positions. Frankly, someone should hire a sports psychologist to make a profile of different great HC and then I would have candidates take a test to see if they fit any of the profiles. This would be similar to what Bill Walsh's Niners did for players in their hey day.

As far as the re-treads who were fired, we know what they can do. We already saw it. No surprise Andy Reid is good. Just like we know John Harbaugh would be good. And just like we all knew Rex would be bad in Buffalo.  

No doubt. I completely agree with the idea that it’s a dice toss once the job is given to someone. I just think that sometimes different variables can factor into the results of a retreads second stint. For better or for worse. Things change when the team and situations do. McCarthy may not look as good as he did for the large part of his career with Rodgers and co. 

John may just need a fresh team and one that doesn’t have Flacco to do better. Even though he’s looking good now. 7-5 and still competing for the division.

who knows? So while we have an idea of how good they are and how they coach...things don’t necessarily stay the same as far as knowing what we have in a retread.

Thats why its all the same amount of risk for me when picking a coach.(of course, when speaking in general, the coach has to be a good candidate)

If John does too good, he may not even be available.

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Eh. 

I don't have anything against ST coaches per se, but when the guy hasn't coached anything but specials in the NFL and he is 20 years removed from coaching anything else, you have to wonder.  If he was a shining candidate he would have gotten a better title before this year (Assistant HC). 

He also is probably not a great interview.  If I read that correctly, he had a bunch in 2017, but none this past year.  Teams and guys he worked with - Chiefs, Colts, Dorsey did not seem to look at him as a serious candidate. 

This is not to say that he can't be a great HC, but I'd be concerned about the above.  I know everybody wants an offensive coach, but I generally did not care, thinking that getting a good OC was more important.  I think the problem is that without a HC with a solid offensive plan, you get a revolving door of offensive philosophy.  If things work out the OC jumps up the ranks somewhere.  If not, you end up with a revolving door - Jets 2011-present. 

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