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Dave Toub(Assistant HC/Kansas City)

Patriot Killa

By Patriot Killa
in NY Jets Forum

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Philc1

Philc1

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23 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

IMO the Jets should avoid any HC candidate who was a decent player in the NFL.  Fortunately, I don't think any of this year's top candidates fit that definition. It is rare for a decent to great player to become a great HC. Tony Dungy and Jim Harbaugh are the only exceptions I can think of. And Dungy couldn't figure out Offense until he was given Payton Manning. As to Harbaugh, I think he feels he underachieved as an NFL QB and has a burning desire to make his mark.

My theory is that a bad (or non) NFL player is a better candidate because they are hungry and motivated. If you had a good NFL career, you've got nothing to prove to anyone. To me, this was the one and only large warning sign in regards to Bowles hiring. 

Magic Johnson was a good head coach and he had the AIDS

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh. 

I don't have anything against ST coaches per se, but when the guy hasn't coached anything but specials in the NFL and he is 20 years removed from coaching anything else, you have to wonder.  If he was a shining candidate he would have gotten a better title before this year (Assistant HC). 

He also is probably not a great interview.  If I read that correctly, he had a bunch in 2017, but none this past year.  Teams and guys he worked with - Chiefs, Colts, Dorsey did not seem to look at him as a serious candidate. 

This is not to say that he can't be a great HC, but I'd be concerned about the above.  I know everybody wants an offensive coach, but I generally did not care, thinking that getting a good OC was more important.  I think the problem is that without a HC with a solid offensive plan, you get a revolving door of offensive philosophy.  If things work out the OC jumps up the ranks somewhere.  If not, you end up with a revolving door - Jets 2011-present. 

And these are all fair concerns and assessments but I will add that after getting the Colt’s GM job. Chris Ballard made it known that he definitely wanted to talk to Toub. Then a few weeks passes and nothing .... well I found this article dated around that time frame and it says...

There is obviously interest, given his extensive history with general manager Chris Ballard but it does seem odd that there hasn’t been much of anything on Toub’s throughout this process.

Ballard said during his press conference that the team would keep everything internal and they have done so as almost no information has been given to the public in terms of how the interviews have gone and who may be a favorite to land the job.

“We’re going to keep everything we do internal, including who we’re interviewing,” Ballard said Jan 1. “We’re going to keep all that in-house. It’s going to be a wide open search.”

While they’ve done a strong job of doing so, it doesn’t appear that Toub has had an interview and there is a chance he is following Ballard’s suit of keeping the information hidden.

The earliest the Colts could have interviewed Toub would have been Jan. 6, following the Chiefs’ loss to the Tennessee Titans. However, nothing has been reported about an interview.

As stated earlier, Toub could be keeping things close to the vest and there is a chance the Colts don’t even interview him as he and Ballard have shared a history in the league that spans 13 seasons.

The Colts reportedly “appear” to be looking for an offensive head coach but it is unclear what that means for Toub should the report be true.

^ This may mean the Colts were just strictly looking for an offensive guy and decided Toub wouldn’t fit that entirely. And he actually may of never even gotten interviewed!

This would be supported by the fact that Indy went with OC Reich out of Philly.

the other teams that interviewed him?

Bears - OC Nagy

Chargers - RB coach Lynn

Peiple don’t really want to go the ST coach route. It’s rare and for a legitimate reason.

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maury77

maury77

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Bowles is a terrible HC, but you understate his pre-jet resume. Before the Jets hired him Bowles had coached in the NFL for 15 years. Plus, he was an assistant HC in Miami back in 2008, and had been their interim HC. He moved up to DC in Philly after they disastrously hired and O lineman (I think?) as their DC, and then he was DC for the Cardinals for two years, and during both years the D was excellent. He also came with the Bill Parcells stamp of approval. Bottom line Bowles was an excellent candidate for a HC job. He's just not any good at it. And the fact is that you never know with any of these guys becasue being HC is far different than any other coaching position. Nothing trains you for it. And the only way to find out if someone is any good at it is to give them the job. 

Bowles was also named the NFL assistant coach of the year before the Jets hired him. He had a stellar resume. 

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Joe W. Namath

Joe W. Namath

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11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

taub is a decent candidate maybe even a good one and he meets the Johnson's no experience as a HC and therefore cheap criteria

that being said the worst part is waiting until after the SB to interview this guy. KC is going deep this year 

KC will lose in the 1st round of the playoffs.

I am starting to like taub.  The "young, offensive mind guy" is a bad idea for this franchise.  It will go more josh mcdaniels/adam gase then mcvay/nagy.

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bitonti

bitonti

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9 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

KC will lose in the 1st round of the playoffs.

I am starting to like taub.  The "young, offensive mind guy" is a bad idea for this franchise.  It will go more josh mcdaniels/adam gase then mcvay/nagy.

they are 10-2 they are getting the bye and home field adv. You mean after that 1 and done? most 1 and 2 seeds win that next game. Who is going to beat them? The pats? The steelers? Maybe the chargers have the juice. Chances are the Chiefs will go deep. Arrowhead is a nightmare for road teams, their QB has like 41 TDs so far this year and they are averaging a million points a game 

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Joe W. Namath

Joe W. Namath

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

they are 10-2 they are getting the bye and home field adv. You mean after that 1 and done? most 1 and 2 seeds win that next game. Who is going to beat them? The pats? The steelers? Maybe the chargers have the juice. Chances are the Chiefs will go deep. Arrowhead is a nightmare for road teams, their QB has like 41 TDs so far this year and they are averaging a million points a game 

In the playoffs, u need defense.  I can see the steelers, chargers or texans can beat them.  The cheifs are 1 and done in my book.

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bitonti

bitonti

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2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

In the playoffs, u need defense.  I can see the steelers, chargers or texans can beat them.  The cheifs are 1 and done in my book.

you might be right, their D is terrible.

Still, this offense is historically great and Arrowhead is even louder than Seattle's stadium. It's bedlam there to have home field advantage is going to help their leaky D.

looking at the odds, Vegas has KC as 5/2 to win the AFC championship. Although those odds are far from perfectly accurate,  this one and done scenario is what we hope happens not what actually is most likely to happen. 

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

 

 

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Joe W. Namath

Joe W. Namath

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

you might be right, their D is terrible.

Still, this offense is historically great and Arrowhead is even louder than Seattle's stadium. It's bedlam there to have home field advantage is going to help their leaky D.

looking at the odds, Vegas has KC as 5/2 to win the AFC championship. Although those odds are far from perfectly accurate,  this one and done scenario is what we hope happens not what actually is most likely to happen. 

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

 

 

Andy reid + qb w/ 0 playoff starts + awful d + a qb like roethlisberger or rivers coming to down = one and done for cheifs.

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jack48

jack48

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4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh. 

I don't have anything against ST coaches per se, but when the guy hasn't coached anything but specials in the NFL and he is 20 years removed from coaching anything else, you have to wonder.  If he was a shining candidate he would have gotten a better title before this year (Assistant HC). 

He also is probably not a great interview.  If I read that correctly, he had a bunch in 2017, but none this past year.  Teams and guys he worked with - Chiefs, Colts, Dorsey did not seem to look at him as a serious candidate. 

This is not to say that he can't be a great HC, but I'd be concerned about the above.  I know everybody wants an offensive coach, but I generally did not care, thinking that getting a good OC was more important.  I think the problem is that without a HC with a solid offensive plan, you get a revolving door of offensive philosophy.  If things work out the OC jumps up the ranks somewhere.  If not, you end up with a revolving door - Jets 2011-present. 

I seriously question how Todd Blowes aced an interview, based on his press conferences.  Does Casserley have that much influence?.

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drsamuel84

drsamuel84

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I would be very interested in a guy like this who has been around the league for a while and has been working under a successful, well respected HC in Andy Reid.  I'm not saying we should def. hire him but on the surface he seems like a better choice then say the next hot OC flavor of the month sure it worked for the Rams but no guarantees it will happen again.  If you are hiring a ST coach though, one of the most important aspects is who will be his OC and even DC.  You wonder about his connections around the league and who he would have lined up in those roles.  Especially at OC with Darnold being the most important commodity.

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TJ

TJ

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14 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

This article was posted in the “convince me” thread and it intrigued me so much that I thought I’d put it in the spotlight and give it a thread. Do you think Toub is a legitimate HC Candidate? Do you think a former ST coach makes sense? He’s worked under Reid twice and was promoted to Assistant HC last offseason. Any NFL job he has held, he held the job down for a long amount of time in the sports world.  He was the guy behind Devin Hester in CHI also. I think finding a “specialist” may be overrated. Check this article out.

Coaching Candidate 2018: Is Dave Toub the Best Coordinator You've Never Heard Of?

I like Toub as a prospective head coach.  Thanks for Re-posting, PK

 

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BCJet

BCJet

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I like Toub and for those saying we need an offensive minded HC, you need to change your statement to read that you would like a GOOD offensive minded HC.

Mcvay is essentially a football savant and he and Kyle Shanahan happened to work together and both be very good, young offensive minds who had the requisite personalities to run an NFL team at such a  young age.  The Bears took a shot and it appears they too got a good young guy in Nagy, who while "young" definitely paid his dues in the league.  Dont forget how bad McDaniels bombed as a "great young offensive mind" with the Broncos.

The fact is that if we try to do this again - we could easily blow the hire entirely.  Eric Biennemy has only been an OC for one year and a play caller for one year.  DeFilippo is struggling in minnesota both with the offense and with the HC.  Matt Lafleur (who i hope we do interview) has worked for great coaches and has likely been preparing for the job but is also not exactly lighting the world on fire in TennesseeThen the talent pool gets to be a bit shallow looking for offensive minded guys.

My point is great coaches are found everywhere and Toub may have gotten passed over for the wrong reasons.  If he can find a good hire at OC, maybe even someone we havent heard as a big name, he could easily be as successful as some of these young guys.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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1 hour ago, BCJet said:

I like Toub and for those saying we need an offensive minded HC, you need to change your statement to read that you would like a GOOD offensive minded HC.

Mcvay is essentially a football savant and he and Kyle Shanahan happened to work together and both be very good, young offensive minds who had the requisite personalities to run an NFL team at such a  young age.  The Bears took a shot and it appears they too got a good young guy in Nagy, who while "young" definitely paid his dues in the league.  Dont forget how bad McDaniels bombed as a "great young offensive mind" with the Broncos.

The fact is that if we try to do this again - we could easily blow the hire entirely.  Eric Biennemy has only been an OC for one year and a play caller for one year.  DeFilippo is struggling in minnesota both with the offense and with the HC.  Matt Lafleur (who i hope we do interview) has worked for great coaches and has likely been preparing for the job but is also not exactly lighting the world on fire in TennesseeThen the talent pool gets to be a bit shallow looking for offensive minded guys.

My point is great coaches are found everywhere and Toub may have gotten passed over for the wrong reasons.  If he can find a good hire at OC, maybe even someone we havent heard as a big name, he could easily be as successful as some of these young guys.

Spot on

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bitonti

bitonti

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17 hours ago, nycdan said:

You left out one more small detail.  No running game anymore.

all these Jets fans predicting the KC one and done feels the same as preseason when we all said Darnold looked awesome and totally ready to be a starter

this is wish fulfilment. They still scored 40 points last week even without their kicker, i mean, RB2.  Arrowhead is still the hardest away stadium to play in the league.  They are the 1 seed, dudes.  A real decent chance Taub is going to be coaching into February.  You can pretend that's untrue or hope it away but it's a damn certainty the chiefs are going deep. 

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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41 minutes ago, bitonti said:

all these Jets fans predicting the KC one and done feels the same as preseason when we all said Darnold looked awesome and totally ready to be a starter

this is wish fulfilment. They still scored 40 points last week even without their kicker, i mean, RB2.  Arrowhead is still the hardest away stadium to play in the league.  They are the 1 seed, dudes.  A real decent chance Taub is going to be coaching into February.  You can pretend that's untrue or hope it away but it's a damn certainty the chiefs are going deep. 

KC feels different than last year. KC has a QB that is like 42 touchdowns for 10 interceptions. They are going DEEP. They need a little better pass defense but they are going deep. Believe that. AFC Championship at the very least.

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Philc1

Philc1

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49 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

KC feels different than last year. KC has a QB that is like 42 touchdowns for 10 interceptions. They are going DEEP. They need a little better pass defense but they are going deep. Believe that. AFC Championship at the very least.

The problem is they can’t stop anyone on defense.  In the playoffs they will have to score 35+ points every game 

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nycdan

nycdan

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On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:14 AM, Philc1 said:

Pats are still coming out of the AFC

HOU is dangerous.  So is LAC on the right day.  And one more I'd add is PIT.  If Conner is healthy, that team can hang 35 pts on anybody and their defense is probably better than anyone else that will be in the hunt at that point.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Steelers are the ones to face the Rams in the SB.

 

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