Will / Should Bowles and/or Maccagnan Be Fired?

[Jetster]

18 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I, by no means, said Bowles is a good coach.  He has clearly proven himself not to be, but.....

I believe Mac is worse.  He simply lacks the basic fundamentals and understanding of todays NFL....

He has consistently drafted interior defensive players (DT, MLB and Safety's) with 1st and 2nd round draft picks - in a league where that is currently designed for spread offenses.

He has put very few premium picks into the offense...

He seemingly refuses to draft O-linemen

This team has NO impact players (well, maybe Adams) in a league where impact players are what matter most.

With Mac it's not just about the fact that most of his pics didn't pan out (I can live with misses - not all picks hit)

t's that his fundamental understanding of the NFL is clearly lacking.  And that can't change.

Here's how I view this Macc decision. If the NY Jets fire Bowles & keep Macc it tells me that Todd Bowles had WAY TOO MUCH influence in the draft & Macc convinced Chris Johnson of it. I mean seriously, Lee, Leo, Adams, Maye? If those top picks don't SCREAM Todd Bowles trying to recreate his Arizona defense what does? 

For Macc to stay, he's had to of thrown Bowles under the bus with the Johnsons. It's not far fetched because both Macc & Bowles report to the owner. Last thing you want is a tug of war in your philosophy of how to build a team. And because there is no one at the top we've ended up with this Frankenstein of a team, matched with the worst coach in the league who always leans on veterans. Think about that, Bowles has proven to always lean on veterans but he's steering the ship of a REBUILDING team, makes no sense & it's the reason he should have been fired after the 2015 Bills game. 

Crazy how blind ownership can be but the majority of the fan base that wanted him jettisoned were 100% right! Who's to say what young QB would be playing right now if an offensive coach like Nagy had been brought in? 

[southparkcpa]

58 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The 2015 roster was filled with aging vets and was a better roster but most of the good players were at the end of their careers. There was little to no young talent on the roster despite the previous GM having a boatload of draft picks to work with. Outside of Powell and Winters what younger talent what on the roster he inherited? The cupboards were bare and he had to completely restock the shelves. 

After the 2015 draft, which used Idzik scouts, he has done a decent job of finding players who are on the active roster.  15 of the 23 picks from 2016-18 are active roster and at least half of those are starters. Granted - it wasn't exactly a monumental task to make the active roster given the slate he started with. He's had his misses like all GM's do, but 15 of 23 is a pretty good percentage. He also picked up Robby Anderson as a nice UDFA gem.

I'm not saying Mac has done a bang up job, I just think he had a massive uphill battle. I'd like to see how his roster would perform with a competent coach before throwing him out. Macs biggest failure is his neglect of the o-line IMO and if I were the owner I would stress to him that his #1 priority should be o-line followed by surrounding Darnold with weapons. He's done a nice job of cleaning the cap slate for 2019 too.

I simply can't agree.   He was head of scouting for Texans and had 20 years in personnel.  His draft choices simply are below average in my view and he absolutely, every year, makes a pick that just looks like he is the smartest guy in the room and it blows up in his face. i.e. HACK, pass on QB's etc

[southparkcpa]

50 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, The Jets have the worst talent in the league and he's been the GM for four years.  I think that would classify him as the worst GM in the NFL.  

It would be tough for anyone to argue otherwise.  

@Barry McCockinner disagrees but, we all have an opinion.   I LOVED the hiring of MAC. His resume was perfect. He has turned out to be too emotional on the job. 

[Bleedin Green]

Bowles most definitely will be fired.  I went with a "probably" in terms of whether he should for one, and only one reason, which is my answers for Maccagnan, that he probably won't be, despite the fact that he most definitely should be.  They should be fired together, and that's beyond question to me, so part of me would almost rather see the team waste another year on both of them, if we're going to waste it on even just one of them.  At last then they'd actually be able to start fresh across the board, rather than continuing this mind-numbingly stupid trend of taking turns on which one buffoon we want to blame for the complete incompetence of everyone.

[Losmeister]

[southparkcpa]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think that we should keep Maccagnan or that he has done a good job, but I think the point Barry was making was that we had a sh*tty roster with a ton of cap space when he got here and if he leaves now, we'll have a sh*tty roster with a ton of cap space.  We went 10-6 in 2015.  I see no reason we can't go 10-6 next year beyond front office and coaching competence.  The idea is to get that record with the needle pointing up instead of down, unlike 2015.

That 10-6 stuff, IMO, has to stop. We  had NO QB for the future. You want to fix a hole in the gas tank with chewing gum. 

We need a QB and passed on 2 top 10 picks and then we chose HACK????   2 OL in 4 years?  

I don't want another 2015 with journey men bringing us to 10-6. Id rather go 6 and 10 with our guys and BUILD through the draft.

We are 7 solid draft picks from a really good team. OL, edge, WR, a few FA's and we can play.

[playtowinthegame]

Hard to believe there are Jets fans who think Mac should stay. They must love sucking double digit L's each season. 

[Bleedin Green]

19 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Here's how I view this Macc decision. If the NY Jets fire Bowles & keep Macc it tells me that Todd Bowles had WAY TOO MUCH influence in the draft & Macc convinced Chris Johnson of it. I mean seriously, Lee, Leo, Adams, Maye? If those top picks don't SCREAM Todd Bowles trying to recreate his Arizona defense what does? 

For Macc to stay, he's had to of thrown Bowles under the bus with the Johnsons. It's not far fetched because both Macc & Bowles report to the owner. Last thing you want is a tug of war in your philosophy of how to build a team. And because there is no one at the top we've ended up with this Frankenstein of a team, matched with the worst coach in the league who always leans on veterans. Think about that, Bowles has proven to always lean on veterans but he's steering the ship of a REBUILDING team, makes no sense & it's the reason he should have been fired after the 2015 Bills game. 

Crazy how blind ownership can be but the majority of the fan base that wanted him jettisoned were 100% right! Who's to say what young QB would be playing right now if an offensive coach like Nagy had been brought in? 

This argument is the worst possible one that gets made around here.  It's based on a completely baseless fan theory that when it comes to the Jets, it's always a super secret conspiracy that the head coach is really doing the GM's job, while the GM apparently just sits in his office and spins around in circles, not doing a single damn thing.  Bottom line, even if this were true, then it's only all the more reason Maccagnan would be the first one to go, because that simply means he is completely useless, and has absolutely no idea how to do the job he is paid to do.

As dumb as the Johnsons may be, even they wouldn't buy a defense that it's not Maccagnan's fault that he wasn't actually bothering to do his job.

[Jetster]

10 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

This argument is the worst possible one that gets made around here.  It's based on a completely baseless fan theory that when it comes to the Jets, it's always a super secret conspiracy that the head coach is really doing the GM's job, while the GM apparently just sits in his office and spins around in circles, not doing a single damn thing.  Bottom line, even if this were true, then it's only all the more reason Maccagnan would be the first one to go, because that simply means he is completely useless, and has absolutely no idea how to do the job he is paid to do.

As dumb as the Johnsons may be, even they wouldn't buy a defense that it's not Maccagnan's fault that he wasn't actually bothering to do his job.

If Macc stays, the Johnsons bought it hook, line & sinker! 

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

If Macc stays, the Johnsons bought it hook, line & sinker! 

Or maybe, now I'm going to get real crazy here, Maccagnan is actually the one who has being Maccagnan's job.  Mind blowing stuff, right?  And their decision to retain him would simply be because they're stupid enough to give him more time, in all likelihood mostly because of the Darnold pick.

That might just be slightly more plausible than the Jets GM being the cushiest job in the world, considering that according to some fans theories (with nothing to support the argument mind you), for years now they have all just sat around and been paid millions to do absolutely nothing.

[GaryM]

That's just another reason that McCagnon should be gone, we need a strong man as the GM. It is obvious that both Rex Ryan before and Bowles now have had a major part in selecting the players brought in to this team. If the GM allows the HC to influence his draft selections, then he is still responsible if they fail, even more so.  The entire scouting department needs retooling also. It does no good to keep anyone that has created this debacle. We need to hire strong personalities moving forward and lets have a real plan!!

[Barry McCockinner]

58 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

@Barry McCockinner disagrees but, we all have an opinion.   I LOVED the hiring of MAC. His resume was perfect. He has turned out to be too emotional on the job. 

I'm just making a case for him not being fired. I'm not even saying he's been a good GM. My opinion is that Bowles is incompetent as a HC and I'd like to see what a competent coach can do with the roster.

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I'm just making a case for him not being fired. I'm not even saying he's been a good GM. My opinion is that Bowles is incompetent as a HC and I'd like to see what a competent coach can do with the roster.

Exactly. If the Jets have a chance at beating Buffalo, it's because Sam Darnold wins the damn game himself. He won't get any brilliant decisions from Todd Bowles. 

Could you imagine what Sam was thinking in that game with ball being sprayed left & right & high? Just imagine how Tom Brady or Aaron Rogers would have reacted after the 12th bad snap? Sams just a rook finding his way, so you know he just sucked it up, but Todd Bowles let Sam down by not benching Long. Brady would have been throwing his helmet coming to the bench! 

[Creepy Lurker]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The 2015 roster was filled with aging vets and was a better roster but most of the good players were at the end of their careers. There was little to no young talent on the roster despite the previous GM having a boatload of draft picks to work with. Outside of Powell and Winters what younger talent what on the roster he inherited? The cupboards were bare and he had to completely restock the shelves. 

After the 2015 draft, which used Idzik scouts, he has done a decent job of finding players who are on the active roster.  15 of the 23 picks from 2016-18 are active roster and at least half of those are starters. Granted - it wasn't exactly a monumental task to make the active roster given the slate he started with. He's had his misses like all GM's do, but 15 of 23 is a pretty good percentage. He also picked up Robby Anderson as a nice UDFA gem.

I'm not saying Mac has done a bang up job, I just think he had a massive uphill battle. I'd like to see how his roster would perform with a competent coach before throwing him out. Macs biggest failure is his neglect of the o-line IMO and if I were the owner I would stress to him that his #1 priority should be o-line followed by surrounding Darnold with weapons. He's done a nice job of cleaning the cap slate for 2019 too.

We completely differ in opinion here and the anti Macc people weren’t being unrealistic with his expections yet he still completely failed. How so many fans accept such a low bar is beyond me. 

You credit him with cap space but that’s only because there are no player’s worth resigning “from the Idzik era” and Mac has done a terrible job in free agency besides the occasional value free agent that hits. He has failed to use cap space and aggressively target offensive players over the last 2 offseasons when he had the chance.

I don’t see how you think this is good or that he did a good job. When you have no talent to resign (again from the Idzik era so not Mac’s fault), you will have a TON of cap space. He had NOTHING to do with that portion of cap space.

The rest is due to him missing out on a ton of quality young free agents because he wasted time on other players that weren’t realistic (Kirk cousins) and missing the initial rush on o-line players. Maybe if they were more aggressive and not wasting time exploring EVERY option under the sun and wasting time instead of actually pulling the trigger, he would have more to show from free agency. 

Again, we clearly differ and I don’t know for a fact that all this happened. I strongly suspect it and based on his lack of draft day trades(meaningful ones in the first 2 round) that he’s always a part of but never go through, I have a strong suspicion that he moves way too slow and overthinks everything which leads to this stagnant wasteland that the Jets franchise has become. Missing on most draft picks brutally doesn’t help either but that’s another story. 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think that we should keep Maccagnan or that he has done a good job, but I think the point Barry was making was that we had a sh*tty roster with a ton of cap space when he got here and if he leaves now, we'll have a sh*tty roster with a ton of cap space.  We went 10-6 in 2015.  I see no reason we can't go 10-6 next year beyond front office and coaching competence.  The idea is to get that record with the needle pointing up instead of down, unlike 2015.

The only difference is that free agency has COMPLETELY changed over the last 4 years with all of the cap increases. Very few good players actually hit the market anymore. It’s pathetic how weak it has become.

Banking on “spending your way” to 10-6 next year without an unbelievably easy schedule and a QB that was very lucky with all of his ugly throws (Fitzpatrick just chucking it up to Marshall), I think is foolish. It’s not sustainable or realistic at all.

I think this team with marginally better coaching can be 8-8 tops with some decent drafting and Darnold improving but FA is not going to help this year. Mac the snail will take too long trying to resign our own and miss out on anyone worth while. Having so many of our own free agents that will definitely test the market because of how toxic we are, will hold us back from actual acquisition. 

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

The only difference is that free agency has COMPLETELY changed over the last 4 years with all of the cap increases. Very few good players actually hit the market anymore. It’s pathetic how weak it has become.

Banking on “spending your way” to 10-6 next year without an unbelievably easy schedule and a QB that was very lucky with all of his ugly throws (Fitzpatrick just chucking it up to Marshall), I think is foolish. It’s not sustainable or realistic at all.

I think this team with marginally better coaching can be 8-8 tops with some decent drafting and Darnold improving but FA is not going to help this year. Mac the snail will take too long trying to resign our own and miss out on anyone worth while. Having so many of our own free agents that will definitely test the market because of how toxic we are, will hold us back from actual acquisition. 

You think free agency has COMPLETELY changed?  How?  Why?  What big money free agents did we sign in 2015 of they type we couldn't sign now?  We signed 4 new DBs, guys that caliber are always available - traded for a sh*tty QB and a diva WR with teams looking to dump them.  Who else did we spend on?  Our own overpriced ILB.  What he did would have been equivalent to signing Johnson and Claiborne this year with another mid-tier CB and overpaying Demario Davis to stay.  Instead he signed Williamson.  If he pulled the trigger on a QB trade (Alex Smith > Ryan Fitzpatrick) and dickbag WR (Amari Cooper > Brandon Marshall) we'd be in exactly the same boat.  I don't see any great sea change in the market from 2015.  Kirk Cousins and Leveon Bell are among the single greatest talents to hit free agency in the past decade.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

The coaching staff is incompetent and that makes it a little difficult to judge the talent. One thing he's done well is nail his first rounders which many say is a gimme but previous Jets GM's have had trouble with. He's added 2nd tier talent in the later rounds too - Herndon, Shepherd, Maye, McGuire, Jenkins, Shell, UDFA - Anderson.

The talent on the roster he inherited was veteran heavy with little young talent. I don't see what he did as eroding the talent - more so it aged out. 

Give him a competent coaching staff and I think the team looks much, much different if he can address the big o-line problem, add a true #1 WR (assuming we can keep enuwa & anderson), and a play making RB. Hell maybe Cannon can be that guy with a competent coaching staff. 

 

 

I've seen your posts here and there -- and 90% of the time i think we're on the same page... which is why this is perplexing.

I don't think this Macc is the worst GM... some here have been far more critical of his FA management and contracts than I have. I've generally been "meh" about most of that. His trades of have been... average to good. 

But...

BUT

He's blundered the drafts so astoundingly (which is really, 40-50% of his job) that he's earned the pink slip. If you sucked at 50% of your job (with a fcking 7 figure salary) -- you'd either be fired, or performance managed out of the company. 

We're not talking about his job as stationary manager at Staples. He's millionaire paid GM of an NFL franchise who sucks at 50% of his job... Wtf. 

If he's still here in January -- better god damn well be a player VP czar type role that he's married to for manager talent/draft scouting. 

You say he's done well?

2015

1. Leo Williams.... Chicken sh*t pick, guilty of roster redundancy (we had wilkerson, richardson, Harrison and Coples on the roster) who was picked simply from a "low bust" potential... and thus far, he's been the definition of MEH... SHOULD HAVE BEEN GURLEY. 
2. Devin Smith... ugh. gross.
3. Mauldin.. Waste... David Johnson was right there amongst others. If he's truly going with BPA, then how do you miss that. I didn't. 
4. Bryce Petty? Fck off.

2016

1. Lee.... i'll leave that one because there was a series of busts that followed him in the first. Including Lynch.
2. Hackenberg?... do i even need to? Who was #1 on my board; Yannick Ngakoue OLB/pro bowler for JAX
3. Jordan Jenkins & Justin Burris.... wake me up when it's over. 

2017

1. Adams & Maye?... We would we be laughing at any other franchise that doubled down on safeties... oh wait, we laugh. You could have easily pared up Mike Williams & Maye, or Adams and Dalvin Cook... Or the center from LSU... or anything fcking offense.
2. Steward over everyone. 'nuff said
3. Hansen over everyone, 'nuff said

That's why he's being paid 7 figures... to avoid ^^^ do you get it? I could have built a better team. Not hindsight, literally just some a$$hole from canada could have breezed through draft and put us in a better spot... x10000000   

[Paradis]

sh*tty delay internet dbl post

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

This probably won't be a popular opinion but I don't think Mac should get canned UNLESS we're able to land a high profile coach who we're comfortable handing over the GM duties to as well. There aren't many coaches who deserve that kind of power - possibly Saban is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

GM's generally get at least two head coaches to work with before getting canned. It's much more disruptive to a franchise to change GM's so as a general rule it should be done less often IMO. The first draft class for new GMs is hard to judge since they're stuck using the input from the scouts of the previous regime. 

I will say that Mac should be on a short leash. 

GMs often get 2 HCs when it's assumed the team assembled is ok but the coach is not (or there's some personality conflict). In this case, Macc didn't hire Bowles so he is (or should be) judged purely on the players. The players suck, we don't have half a roster of starters for 2019, and most of those that are 2019 starters are FAs in 2020. Therefore he should be canned. 

There is no short leash option. The Jets are either firing him or extending him, because the next HC is either comfortable with Macc picking the players for him or he isn't. Nobody sends a GM out to hire a HC when he's got technically 2 but effectively only 1 year left on his contract. 

In keeping this imbecile, we'll never know who else would have been interested in the job, but who wouldn't even bother with the interview process if Maccagnan is the one calling them to work under him. Keeping him means you'd better like all his draft picks on the roster right now because he has to keep and extend those remaining just to save face. They will be extended no matter what and for no matter how much: Leo, Lee, Shell, and 50-50 on Jenkins, too.  

Firing Maccagnan, on the other thand, announces to all potential HC candidates: "You have a purely clean slate. There is no needed loyalty to Maccagnan's draft picks/pickups, nor are they going to get extended or kept unjustly just to save his reputation as GM."

[Creepy Lurker]

21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You think free agency has COMPLETELY changed?  How?  Why?  What big money free agents did we sign in 2015 of they type we couldn't sign now?  We signed 4 new DBs, guys that caliber are always available - traded for a sh*tty QB and a diva WR with teams looking to dump them.  Who else did we spend on?  Our own overpriced ILB.  What he did would have been equivalent to signing Johnson and Claiborne this year with another mid-tier CB and overpaying Demario Davis to stay.  Instead he signed Williamson.  If he pulled the trigger on a QB trade (Alex Smith > Ryan Fitzpatrick) and dickbag WR (Amari Cooper > Brandon Marshall) we'd be in exactly the same boat.  I don't see any great sea change in the market from 2015.  Kirk Cousins and Leveon Bell are among the single greatest talents to hit free agency in the past decade.

The talent pool in free agency has gotten worse every year over the last few years in lock step with the cap increasing significantly. It’s no secret that there is less quality in free agency now than ever. Specifically 2019 is going to probably be the worst free agent class in a very long time or possibly ever.

It’s not like 2015 when spending could get you some big name starters (Revis) and a bunch of young players on the rise (Skrin, Gilchrist at the time). This doesn’t include all the other available players (there were a lot more than next year or last year even).

I can’t find an organized list to copy and past but all you have to do is look at he 2015 free agent class as an example. It’s progressivley gotten worst for years now. 

[Sperm Edwards]

16 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

The talent pool in free agency has gotten worse every year over the last few years in lock step with the cap increasing significantly. It’s no secret that there is less quality in free agency now than ever. Specifically 2019 is going to probably be the worst free agent class in a very long time or possibly ever.

It’s not like 2015 when spending could get you some big name starters (Revis) and a bunch of young players on the rise (Skrin, Gilchrist at the time). This doesn’t include all the other available players (there were a lot more than next year or last year even).

I can’t find an organized list to copy and past but all you have to do is look at he 2015 free agent class as an example. It’s progressivley gotten worst for years now. 

I don't know, man. This list is full of guys who could get you maybe 1 solid year but whom you have to keep and pay for 2+ years for that 1 solid-ish year. Revis, whom you mention, is the poster-boy for that garbage type pickup. $39m for 1 solid (but hardly great) season and 1 crappy season.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2015/ufa/

I think sometimes you need to see it also in hindsight; some of these guys may have seemed like good pickups then, but weren't. Suh was still a top player at his position, but look at what cost. Going down the list you really have to cherry-pick which ones panned out (e.g. Clay, Hudson, etc.).

How many good FAs - players who were good through at least the guaranteed portions of their contracts - can you count from that 2015 class?

[Larz]

There is a chance that bates is the sacrificial lamb 

Christopher more or less proved recently that he is a caretaker and not the owner 

Woody doesn't want to be bothered with a search 

[Bleedin Green]

50 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

GMs often get 2 HCs when it's assumed the team assembled is ok but the coach is not (or there's some personality conflict). In this case, Macc didn't hire Bowles so he is (or should be) judged purely on the players. The players suck, we don't have half a roster of starters for 2019, and most of those that are 2019 starters are FAs in 2020. Therefore he should be canned. 

There is no short leash option. The Jets are either firing him or extending him, because the next HC is either comfortable with Macc picking the players for him or he isn't. Nobody sends a GM out to hire a HC when he's got technically 2 but effectively only 1 year left on his contract. 

In keeping this imbecile, we'll never know who else would have been interested in the job, but who wouldn't even bother with the interview process if Maccagnan is the one calling them to work under him. Keeping him means you'd better like all his draft picks on the roster right now because he has to keep and extend those remaining just to save face. They will be extended no matter what and for no matter how much: Leo, Lee, Shell, and 50-50 on Jenkins, too.  

Firing Maccagnan, on the other thand, announces to all potential HC candidates: "You have a purely clean slate. There is no needed loyalty to Maccagnan's draft picks/pickups, nor are they going to get extended or kept unjustly just to save his reputation as GM."

Agree with you across the board, but I'd actually say Jenkins is likely to be near the top of Maccagnan's re-signing lists, as that's pretty much the best he has to point to in regards to his mid-round picks.  I'm just very curious to see how much that's going to end up costing Maccagnan when all is said and done, as I have little doubt Jenkins' agent will be licking his chops at how much he can bend Macc over for, given his desperation to make himself look better, and the team's complete dearth of talent at the position.

Whether we like it or not, Jenkins has established himself as the Jets' best pass rusher, with his 6 sacks leading the team, being double of the next best (3 sacks each from Williams and Williamson), and already surpassing the most sacks by anyone last year (5 from Davis).  If he can tack on a few more to wrap up the season, I can only imagine what he'll be asking for, and I have little doubt Macc would be too scared to say no (although, he'd of course wait another year and likely make matters only worse).

[Creepy Lurker]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know, man. This list is full of guys who could get you maybe 1 solid year but whom you have to keep and pay for 2+ years for that 1 solid-ish year. Revis, whom you mention, is the poster-boy for that garbage type pickup. $39m for 1 solid (but hardly great) season and 1 crappy season.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2015/ufa/

I think sometimes you need to see it also in hindsight; some of these guys may have seemed like good pickups then, but weren't. Suh was still a top player at his position, but look at what cost. Going down the list you really have to cherry-pick which ones panned out (e.g. Clay, Hudson, etc.).

How many good FAs - players who were good through at least the guaranteed portions of their contracts - can you count from that 2015 class?

I’m not saying these guys are good or turned out good. AT THAT TIME there was what was considered to be a decent crop of talent. I think the crop of overall top end free agent talent over the years has gotten worse. 2019 is a complete mess.

My other original point was even if FA “has not changed” at all and is just as strong as ever, we have the daunting task of resigning many of our own which is a daunting task and would hinder our ability to acquire said external free agents. That’s all that my 2 points were/are.

Sorry if it all got twisted but I feel very strongly about these 2 particular points:

1. Quality of free agents has gone down over the years because of cap increases allowing teams to retain more quality players than ever.

2. Having half the team not under contract and focusing on resigning our own players will hinder our ability to acquire other players that we are “competing” for. 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Agree with you across the board, but I'd actually say Jenkins is likely to be near the top of Maccagnan's re-signing lists, as that's pretty much the best he has to point to in regards to his mid-round picks.  I'm just very curious to see how much that's going to end up costing Maccagnan when all is said and done, as I have little doubt Jenkins' agent will be licking his chops at how much he can bend Macc over for, given his desperation to make himself look better, and the team's complete dearth of talent at the position.

Whether we like it or not, Jenkins has established himself as the Jets' best pass rusher, with his 6 sacks leading the team, being double of the next best (3 sacks each from Williams and Williamson), and already surpassing the most sacks by anyone last year (5 from Davis).  If he can tack on a few more to wrap up the season, I can only imagine what he'll be asking for, and I have little doubt Macc would be too scared to say no (although, he'd of course wait another year and likely make matters only worse).

I was giving Macc the benefit of the doubt.

So much for gratitude.  

In all seriousness: it's 50/50. Jenkins is not a FA this offseason, and Maccagnan doesn't extend players until 5 minutes before they're about to hit free agency after he's surrendered all leverage to the player. I don't figure it's automatic for Jenkins to have another 7-sack season in 2019. If he drops back down to nothing again, or if the next HC starts someone else and his numbers drop, then I don't think he's a slam dunk to get re-signed. 50/50, depending upon his 2019 season. 

[pajet]

4 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Nah - like I said I think he should be on a short leash. 

See, here is the thing.   I would be OK with giving Mac a shot with his own coach.   I often wonder if Mac's picks are that bad, or if Bowles and staff just have no ability to develop these guys/put them in a position to succeed whatsoever.   No one knows for sure how much power Bowles had over draft except for the Johnson brothers so perhaps Mac was picking who Bowles wanted.   In that case, I would give Mac a short leash.   However, here is the issue: said short leash will scare away HC candidates.    If we allow Mac to pick the HC, realistically that means he is getting at least another 3 years.   Despite the issues above, he has not earned that right.   The risk (and likelihood) of keeping him and have him continue to sht the bed, far outweighs the benefits of keeping him.

[Barry McCockinner]

27 minutes ago, Larz said:

There is a chance that bates is the sacrificial lamb 

Christopher more or less proved recently that he is a caretaker and not the owner 

 Woody doesn't want to be bothered with a search 

If Bowles gets a 4th offensive coordinator I'll eat my own d?#!

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I’m not saying these guys are good or turned out good. AT THAT TIME there was what was considered to be a decent crop of talent. I think the crop of overall top end free agent talent over the years has gotten worse. 2019 is a complete mess.

My other original point was even if FA “has not changed” at all and is just as strong as ever, we have the daunting task of resigning many of our own which is a daunting task and would hinder our ability to acquire said external free agents. That’s all that my 2 points were/are.

Sorry if it all got twisted but I feel very strongly about these 2 particular points:

1. Quality of free agents has gone down over the years because of cap increases allowing teams to retain more quality players than ever.

2. Having half the team not under contract and focusing on resigning our own players will hinder our ability to acquire other players that we are “competing” for. 

At that time is irrelevant, and subject to subjective POVs. They weren't good FAs. Were there even 10 good FAs from all of 2015?

Just like the year before, when we landed the crown jewel of FA WRs: Eric Decker.

FA is always the same: mostly crap, with some rare steals, and some players who are ok for 1 year but ultimately unworthy of the contract awarded to them. IMO it's been like this for a long time. Teams keep their best players, and let ones go if they think they can find one just as good, but cheaper, in another FA, the prior season's backup, or in the draft. 

I think it seemed better in hindsight because we did a lot of spending plus it initially seemed like wise spending because it was only 1 year into multi-year guarantees, plus other unlikely scenarios led to more wins than initially expected. 

[Barry McCockinner]

I just want to point out a timing issue with this whole thing. If the Jets are going to change to the more traditional approach of the GM hiring the HC, they want the GM to be in place by the time the regular season ends. Otherwise they'll be searching for the next GM while all the HC candidates come off the board.

It would be a total Jet moment to screw the pooch on this though. I can see them firing both, then spending half the off season searching for the "perfect GM candidate" who ends up picking off the trash heap of coaching options.

[pajet]

3 hours ago, GaryM said:

That's just another reason that McCagnon should be gone, we need a strong man as the GM. It is obvious that both Rex Ryan before and Bowles now have had a major part in selecting the players brought in to this team. If the GM allows the HC to influence his draft selections, then he is still responsible if they fail, even more so.  The entire scouting department needs retooling also. It does no good to keep anyone that has created this debacle. We need to hire strong personalities moving forward and lets have a real plan!!

If the GM allows the HC to push him into picks he does not want I agree.   however, if the power structure is set up by the owner that the HC has the authority to push his preferences then Mac has a defense.   I think Mac should go as well, but we'll never really know what kind of power structure/dynamic has existed in the draft room as set up by the johnsons.

[Creepy Lurker]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

At that time is irrelevant, and subject to subjective POVs. They weren't good FAs. Were there even 10 good FAs from all of 2015?

Just like the year before, when we landed the crown jewel of FA WRs: Eric Decker.

FA is always the same: mostly crap, with some rare steals, and some players who are ok for 1 year but ultimately unworthy of the contract awarded to them. IMO it's been like this for a long time. Teams keep their best players, and let ones go if they think they can find one just as good, but cheaper, in another FA, the prior season's backup, or in the draft. 

I think it seemed better in hindsight because we did a lot of spending plus it initially seemed like wise spending because it was only 1 year into multi-year guarantees, plus other unlikely scenarios led to more wins than initially expected. 

I think “at the time” is relevant because at least there is some hope. Currently “at this time” for 2019, looks bleaker than I can remember and it was bad last year too.

Things in my opinion, have been worse and steadily getting worse over the last few years. You can’t even go on a spending spree if you wanted too is my point just based on quality. We can disagree. Just trying to make those 2 points of mine crystal clear. 

[Creepy Lurker]

14 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I just want to point out a timing issue with this whole thing. If the Jets are going to change to the more traditional approach of the GM hiring the HC, they want the GM to be in place by the time the regular season ends. Otherwise they'll be searching for the next GM while all the HC candidates come off the board.

It would be a total Jet moment to screw the pooch on this though. I can see them firing both, then spending half the off season searching for the "perfect GM candidate" who ends up picking off the trash heap of coaching options.

That’s the big issue with this. The timing is terrible and by not getting a jump or finding a president of football prior to the year ending, puts us in a bad spot. That’s why I suggested a “band aid” while we take time finding the right person to head the ship. No choice or option is ideal given the timing especially. 

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, Creepy Lurker said:

That’s the big issue with this. The timing is terrible and by not getting a jump or finding a president of football prior to the year ending, puts us in a bad spot. That’s why I suggested a “band aid” while we take time finding the right person to head the ship. No choice or option is ideal given the timing especially. 

Then you're left finding a GM who didn't get to pick his HC again to replace the band aid. Maybe a reason finding the GM/HC is more desirable.