Bowles and McCagnan have been at odds for years.

[20andOut]

Here is the most important line of the PFT writeup to keep in mind...

"it’s important to remember that sources will eagerly promote their own agendas at the expense of the other"

[Untouchable]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Mediocre means middle of the road.  So, I'm assuming you can name roughly half the leagues GM's who have done a worse job over the last 4 years?

Let’s not be goofy

I’m not going to sit here and pretend like I’ve done intricate research on every GM in the league within the last 5 years, present or former. Nor should anyone with a fiber of truth within their being and/or anyone with any sort of a...well...life, whatsoever.

Macc has had his share of misses, as has every GM in every professional sport, ever. As I said, they could toss his ass into the dumpster tomorrow and you’d hear no qualms from me...

But this silly point of view that Bowles has been handicapped or something while Macc has dicked him over is just nonsense. If anything, Macc’s biggest weakness has been bending over backwards for Bowles and getting little in return.

From Revis, Cro and Skrine...to Trumaine Johnson, Morris Claiborne, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Leo Williams, Darron Lee, Avery Williamson, Steve McLendon, Henry Anderson, Mike Pennel...

These are all at least quality players that Macc has supplied Bowles with on the defensive side of the ball and the guy still fields a bottom 3rd defense in the league.

That’s just sh*t and there’s no excuse. Say what you will about a silly dickbag like Rex, but he’d still have these guys ranked as a Top 10 unit...at least.

[Jetmech]

I wondered why the Jets hired the HC and GM almost simultaneously. Hire the GM first and go from there. The Jets haven't had a clue since Hess and Gutman!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Jetmech]

"for years?"  They've only been here 4 seasons.  Exactly when did they turn on each other???
Also, Woody Johnson is a root cause of this problem by messing up the accountability structure.  The GM needs to hire the head coach, not the owner.

Probably turned on each other first off-season. Bowles doesn't report to Mike. I'm sure Bowles liked that idea and Mike not so much but he was getting a promotion so he didn't turn it down...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Pac]

14 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Let’s not be goofy

I’m not going to sit here and pretend like I’ve done intricate research on every GM in the league within the last 5 years, present or former. Nor should anyone with a fiber of truth within their being and/or anyone with any sort of a...well...life, whatsoever.

Macc has had his share of misses, as has every GM in every professional sport, ever. As I said, they could toss his ass into the dumpster tomorrow and you’d hear no qualms from me...

But this silly point of view that Bowles has been handicapped or something while Macc has dicked him over is just nonsense. If anything, Macc’s biggest weakness has been bending over backwards for Bowles and getting little in return.

From Revis, Cro and Skrine...to Trumaine Johnson, Morris Claiborne, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Leo Williams, Darron Lee, Avery Williamson, Steve McLendon, Henry Anderson, Mike Pennel...

These are all at least quality players that Macc has supplied Bowles with on the defensive side of the ball and the guy still fields a bottom 3rd defense in the league.

That’s just sh*t and there’s no excuse. Say what you will about a silly dickbag like Rex, but he’d still have these guys ranked as a Top 10 unit...at least.

exactly.. the roster is riddled with guys Bowles asked for and he's been able to accomplish nothing more than an occasional good half of football.

Bowles is so much worse at his job than Macc it's silly to even compare them.

We'll know soon enough what Macc has up his sleeve..  he's not getting fired. 

That's not to say Macc doesn't need to improve.  He needs to get more balls and stop being so easily talked into draft picks he isn't 100% behind..  but that's what happens when the owner creates a fakakta hierarchy.

In a couple weeks the HC search, headed by Macc, will be on.

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

Ladies and gentleman, these are the early stages of a Brian Heimerdinger coup. 

If this is true than all I can say is Thank God!!!

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

This can't be overstated. MAC is terrible.  

This 100%

Think because Mac wanted to justify the Hackenberg pick he had to pass on the Patrick Mahomes acquisition. 

Utter madness and incompetence all rolled into one....

[Jetsbb]

[BroadwayRay]

I used to think the Jets were somewhat unique in having the GM and HC each report directly to the owner, but I read recently that 18 teams are structured that way, including the Steelers and Packers. 

[Fantasy Island]

8 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Correct.  Package deal.  Both need to go.  Darnold, adams and herdon are untouchables.  Everyone else can be replaced.

Not Jason Myers either

[jack48]

12 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Reading that I get the impression the Jets are letting go of the less dysfunctional employee. 

Sit with that for a moment. Mac is worse at his job than Bowles is at his..

you have seen Bowles in game management?

[jack48]

12 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

So Mike Maccagnan thinks Todd Bowles is bad at his job, and Todd Bowles thinks Mike Maccagnan is bad at his job. For the first time ever, they're both right. 

exactly. small minds look for "either-ors" when "All of the above" is staring them in the face.

[jamesr]

10 hours ago, Bugg said:

And Jesse Kay was screaming at Parcells to take Tom Brady. Right. 

And was it Bradway who was supposedly banging the table for Russel Wilson?

[jamesr]

Hmmm ...

Bowles and Macc don't get along. On field performance of the resulting team has sucked.

Rex and Idzik didn't get along. On field performance of the resulting team sucked.

I'm starting to detect a pattern here ...

REHIRE TANNY AND REX!!!  

[Augustiniak]

11 hours ago, Bugg said:

But this Mehta article has the distinct whiff of Bowles, staring down at his reputation crushed forever, telling his buddy Manish how he really wanted offense. He is lying. He has whined about the offense not running enough, babbled gibberish about execution, and really done not a f__Ing thing to help Darnold become an NFL QB. HE DID NOT PLAY A PERFECTLY HEALTHY 21 YEAR OLD 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK THE LAST 2 WEEKS BECAUSE....? 

Smells of bowles shifting blame, definitely.  Also in fairness i think you can find coaches who push for players on all teams, some of which become very good, others become nothing.  I can see mccagnan not wanting to burn a 2018 2nd rounder to get a running back, and in hindsight that was smart b/c they used that to get darnold.

bowles hasn’t played darnold the past few weeks for 2 reasons IMO:  1) to spite mccagnan, realizing that he’s gone and mccagnan gets another huge chance to fix the jets, and 2) to prove to all the naysayers that his way can still win games.  Well, handing off to crowell and using a 39 yr old journeyman qb doesn’t work anymore, thankfully, and i would like to believe that even bowles realizes that his reputation is taking a hit by benching darnold and losing the way he has.

going forward none of this matters, all we need is mccagnan to bring in even decent offensive minds and to realize that his antiquated BAP philosophy will get him fired quickly if he doesn’t figure out how to improve the OL.  I think darnold can do fine with average skill guys if he has decent protection, he will make the guys around him better.

[Augustiniak]

27 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Hmmm ...

Bowles and Macc don't get along. On field performance of the resulting team has sucked.

Rex and Idzik didn't get along. On field performance of the resulting team sucked.

I'm starting to detect a pattern here ...

REHIRE TANNY AND REX!!!  

Yes, that the team has sucked.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

hard to think it seemed like a good idea to extend both of these clowns just 12 months ago 

CJ missed all of these issues? we thought he was in touch with the team?

If it was that bad for that long something would have come out during all those heartfelt moments discussing the real issues behind kneeling  - WTF

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

hard to think it seemed like a good idea to extend both of these clowns just 12 months ago 

CJ missed all of these issues?

It was never a good idea but we have dumb owners who believed the crap about “true rebuild”

 

We could have both Matt Nagy and Khalil Mack right now but instead we have Todd Bowles and trash 

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Let’s not be goofy

I’m not going to sit here and pretend like I’ve done intricate research on every GM in the league within the last 5 years, present or former. Nor should anyone with a fiber of truth within their being and/or anyone with any sort of a...well...life, whatsoever.

Macc has had his share of misses, as has every GM in every professional sport, ever. As I said, they could toss his ass into the dumpster tomorrow and you’d hear no qualms from me...

But this silly point of view that Bowles has been handicapped or something while Macc has dicked him over is just nonsense. If anything, Macc’s biggest weakness has been bending over backwards for Bowles and getting little in return.

From Revis, Cro and Skrine...to Trumaine Johnson, Morris Claiborne, Jamal Adams, Marcus Maye, Leo Williams, Darron Lee, Avery Williamson, Steve McLendon, Henry Anderson, Mike Pennel...

These are all at least quality players that Macc has supplied Bowles with on the defensive side of the ball and the guy still fields a bottom 3rd defense in the league.

That’s just sh*t and there’s no excuse. Say what you will about a silly dickbag like Rex, but he’d still have these guys ranked as a Top 10 unit...at least.

I don’t actually expect you to have a ranking - but if your going to call Macc, who there is plenty of evidence to suggest he’s one of the worst, if not the worst active GMs (least active draft picks, record, Hackenberg, etc), a middle of the road, I’d expect you could defend that stance with something, besides just blaming Bowles.

Whats goofy is listing a bunch of names of over the hill, uninterested, unwanted, and/or overhyped defenders plus a strong safety and saying the defense should be good because you’re familiar with those names.  And frankly, the best defense is one that sits on the bench while the offense gets 1st downs.  Next most important thing is someone who can rush the passer.  We will never have a capable defense without a pass rush and more importantly, an offense who can stay on the field.  I don’t have the data, but how confident are you the Jets aren’t 1st in 3-and-outs?  How confident are you they aren’t top 3?

Also, I’m not suggesting Bowles should be retained - he has plenty of shortcomings - far less than a lot of the nonsense he gets blamed for here, but more than enough for us to move on.  I’m simply suggesting that Macc has been a complete failure and retaining him, as it seems may be very possible, is a mistake, as there is actual tangible data to suggest no one has done a worse job at this job.  Add that to the fact that by retaining him, you’re actually giving possibly the worst GM in the league 3 more years to accomplish literally nothing, and it would rank as one of the all time stupid decisions by this franchise.

[Philc1]

What a bunch of garbage

[ZachEY]

9 hours ago, Pac said:

exactly.. the roster is riddled with guys Bowles asked for and he's been able to accomplish nothing more than an occasional good half of football.

Bowles is so much worse at his job than Macc it's silly to even compare them.

We'll know soon enough what Macc has up his sleeve..  he's not getting fired. 

That's not to say Macc doesn't need to improve.  He needs to get more balls and stop being so easily talked into draft picks he isn't 100% behind..  but that's what happens when the owner creates a fakakta hierarchy.

In a couple weeks the HC search, headed by Macc, will be on.

Indeed, the only viable defense of Macc is fabricating a narrative where Bowles is actually the GM too, and Macc doesn’t actually do anything - except, maybe, the 3-4 positive things over a 4 year span that have happened - those were Macc exclusively.

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think this issue is the volume of folks around here who are incapable of comprehending the idea that more than one employee of the NY Jets can suck at their job at the same time.  There is literally no evidence whatsoever to suggest either one of them is anything but amongst the very worst at their respective jobs in the entire league.  Neither one deserves to keep their job in the slightest.  Bowles is already clearly on his way out, that much is obvious.  It's just become baffling that it seems very likely we'll be locked into years more of incompetence from Maccagnan, who has done absolutely nothing to deserve the right to have a hand in a few more years of his mess, to go along with a new coach that he'd be of absolutely no help to.

This.  It's weird thingy that this board does when we're in these situations.  People get all worked up over who the real culprit.  And in some cases, I get it.  Our last 3 Head Coaches before Todd actually had some success, so I understand the debate of where it went south but in this scenario?  Bizarre.  The Jets have been the worst team in the AFCE and a bottom 3 team in the league during this era and during that time frame, they've both demonstrated that they're absolutely terrible at their jobs in more ways than one.

 

[Rexorcism]

Macc got us our franchise QB, he gets a pass. Bowles goes

[sourceworx]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Reading the article, Mehta was really squishy on the “Jets should keep Maccagnan” part, and he’s usually more flagrant with his biases and agenda. Obviously, no one believes that Maccagnan is “learning on be job,” or that he has the capacity to, and credit to Mehta for focusing on Macc’s putrid draft record.

That said, if you had to guess at his sources, it’s someone on the player personnel side who wants to stick around, knows that Bowles is toast, but has no issue kneecapping Maccagnan just enough in the process. Whoever talked to Mehta wanted to hang Hackenberg around Macc’s neck and make him look like a weak bitch besides, while at the same time pointing out that not *all* of the draft picks have been sh*t. 

 

Ladies and gentleman, these are the early stages of a Brian Heimerdinger coup. 

It's reminiscent of 2006, when Tannenbaum took over for Terry Bradway. Maybe the Jets will do a similar move this time. Demote Mac to the scouting department, and promote Heimerdinger to GM.

[sec101row23]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

This.  It's weird thingy that this board does when we're in these situations.  People get all worked up over who the real culprit.  And in some cases, I get it.  Our last 3 Head Coaches before Todd actually had some success, so I understand the debate of where it went south but in this scenario?  Bizarre.  The Jets have been the worst team in the AFCE and a bottom 3 team in the league during this era and during that time frame, they've both demonstrated that they're absolutely terrible at their jobs in more ways than one.

 

Agreed.  I say it all the time, but when things get THIS bad it’s not the fault of one guy.  You can clearly assign enough blame on both parties and justify why both parties need to go.  This parsing of blame, and trying to assign who is more or less responsible is a waste of time.  Todd Bowles and Michael Maccagnan are BOTH not fit to continue in their jobs.  Period, end of discussion. 

[dbatesman]

10 hours ago, Pac said:

exactly.. the roster is riddled with guys Bowles asked for and he's been able to accomplish nothing more than an occasional good half of football.

Bowles is so much worse at his job than Macc it's silly to even compare them.

We'll know soon enough what Macc has up his sleeve..  he's not getting fired. 

That's not to say Macc doesn't need to improve.  He needs to get more balls and stop being so easily talked into draft picks he isn't 100% behind..  but that's what happens when the owner creates a fakakta hierarchy.

In a couple weeks the HC search, headed by Macc, will be on.

Cant wait for MACCC to make his first draft pick, I bet its gonna be a good one

[sec101row23]

7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

It's reminiscent of 2006, when Tannenbaum took over for Terry Bradway. Maybe the Jets will do a similar move this time. Demote Mac to the scouting department, and promote Heimerdinger to GM.

Hell no.   Maccagnan has been miserable at evaluating talent since he’s been here.  Get him far far away from this team.  

[FTL Jet Fan]

I would be surprised if both got fired, if  we keep Mac how many coaches are going to want to work with him.  Bowles seems to be very well liked/respected around the  League  so if we keep Mac and he hires his own coach, to me that just limits our pool of coaches. I would prefer to clean house, but I have zero confidence in the Jets hiring the right GM who would hopefully hire his own coach.  I won't even get my hopes up for a competent and experienced GM/head coach being hired, and them hiring a respected and knowledgeable  football-minded VP of football operations.

[Creepy Lurker]

31 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Macc got us our franchise QB, he gets a pass. Bowles goes

What a low bar to set. We don’t even know if Darnold will pan out and we are watching him get ruined before our eyes due to a poor offensive roster that Mac built. Do you not see this?

If you expectations are this low then surely you don’t expect the team to be good for a very long time. Right? And that’s ok with you? 

[ZachEY]

34 minutes ago, JiF said:

 This.  It's weird thingy that this board does when we're in these situations.  People get all worked up over who the real culprit.  And in some cases, I get it.  Our last 3 Head Coaches before Todd actually had some success, so I understand the debate of where it went south but in this scenario?  Bizarre.  The Jets have been the worst team in the AFCE and a bottom 3 team in the league during this era and during that time frame, they've both demonstrated that they're absolutely terrible at their jobs in more ways than one.

  

It's really not at all weird.

If you take the mental shortcut that the Jets flaws are all on the coach, the fix is simple.  Fire the coach, and we can instantly be a much better team simply by replacing him with a better coach.  This is a pretty pleasant outlook, because what it means is, next year there is hope.

The alternative is pretty inconvenient, because it means there's not an easy fix, and next year is very unlikely to give us what we want.  If Macc is to blame, and as a result, it's really that the roster is to blame, that's a long fix, and one that means we're nowhere near competitive, because not only do we stink now, we also have almost no young talent to build around.  That's a much harder reality to swallow.

It's not weird that people want to pretend things are much better/more fixable than they are.  It's aggressively human.

[ChuckkieB]

There are literally TWO players on this team currently that one could say are untouchable and are definitely part of the 2019 plan - Darnold and Adams.  After them, there are a handful of players that are on the bubble, and the rest we can dump into the Hudson.  THAT is a terrible indictment of the GM and what the owners should be looking at.  After 4 years, our GM produced literally TWO keepers.  That is pathetic.  

[Creepy Lurker]

7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It's really not at all weird.

If you take the mental shortcut that the Jets flaws are all on the coach, the fix is simple.  Fire the coach, and we can instantly be a much better team simply by replacing him with a better coach.  This is a pretty pleasant outlook, because what it means is, next year there is hope.

The alternative is pretty inconvenient, because it means there's not an easy fix, and next year is very unlikely to give us what we want.  If Macc is to blame, and as a result, it's really that the roster is to blame, that's a long fix, and one that means we're nowhere near competitive, because not only do we stink now, we also have almost no young talent to build around.  That's a much harder reality to swallow.

It's not weird that people want to pretend things are much better/more fixable than they are.  It's aggressively human.

Spot on! Denial and saying “everything will be ok” does not solve the issue at hand. It will be tough and take time but sticking your head in the sand solves nothing. 

[Jets0712]

Macc got us our franchise QB, he gets a pass. Bowles goes

I want Bowles gone. I was leaning towards keeping maccagnan to give him a chance to pick his coach. But no. They both gotta go



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Sperm Edwards]

13 hours ago, Bugg said:

All true.

But I recall Bowles smiling ear to ear like a kid of Christmas Morning when the Adams and Maye picks were made.That anyone in the origanization didn't step un and stop that was a disaster. 

Simply they're both bad at their respective jobs. The lack of a clear chain of command has been a problem since Johnson bought the team.

But this Mehta article has the distinct whiff of Bowles, staring down at his reputation crushed forever, telling his buddy Manish how he really wanted offense. He is lying. He has whined about the offense not running enough, babbled gibberish about execution, and really done not a f__Ing thing to help Darnold become an NFL QB. HE DID NOT PLAY A PERFECTLY HEALTHY 21 YEAR OLD 1ST ROUND DRAFT PICK THE LAST 2 WEEKS BECAUSE....? 

I think it's only fair after Maccagnan (and/or those in the Jets media outreach) seem to be planting "Maccagnan the Good" stories that trash only Bowles.

But if you're waiting for me to defend Bowles as a HC worth keeping you're going to be waiting a long time.

[UntouchableCrew]

The only thing that article really tells us is what we already knew -- that the moronic organizational structure Woody instituted was a failure from the start and never had a chance to work.

Now, as this disaster comes apart at the seams we naturally have finger pointing from both guys as they try to salvage their reputations and get hired at their next gig.

Moral of the story -- don't work for Woody Johnson. It will ruin you.