Player development

[Jetster]

A requisite to a rebuild in the NFL for a Head Coach is can you develop players? It was immediately obvious to any knowledgeable football fan that Todd Bowles leaned towards veterans. After a VETERAN led 2015 campaign & the decision was made to cut aging vets & rebuild, the Jets heirachy did Mcaggnan a disservice immediately by keeping Todd Bowles. Think about this, how much experience did Bowles have to build an entire team with younger players? So while I fault Macc for his misses, he was doomed to fail anyway with one of the worst coaches in football. 

Is there anyone on this forum that believes Todd Bowles would have had the wherewithal to develop a guy like Edelman like the Pats did? The Jets are a poorly organized & coached football team. Bowles DOES NOT get the best from his players each Sunday. Do any of us really know what type of team Macc wants? All of us know what type of team Bowles wants, run the ball & play great defense. That was clear from the dismissal of Morton. Maybe that was the start of the rift between Bowles & Macc.

Clearly without anyone IN CHARGE, Macc placated to his defensive head coach, Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist, Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Williams, Adams, Maye, Donahue, Clark, Jones, Anderson, Williamson, Shepard, Nickerson, Fatukasi. 

And right now the Jets are ranked 23rd overall defensively. Basically bottom 10. And I would venture to guess bottom 3 in must stops. Honestly, I don't think it's the end of the world if the Jets keep Macc. Clearly he's had his misses, they all do, but I have no doubt in my mind with 100 million & a high pick the defense will be good enough in 2019 to compete at a high level just by finding a veteran DC & fixing the pass rush. Bowles/Rogers are clearly bottom rung NFL defensive coaches. Outside of pass rusher, there is more speed & athleticism on this defense than what Rex had. 

Like others have said, I'm not crying tears for Macc if they kick him out the door, but, if not, I think given a new directive this offseason which is get some pass rushers & EVERY OTHER ASSET goes to offense he can & will be OK. Herndon was a great pick. Wait until we can get a couple explosive players around him. Someone earlier mentioned Eli Rogers coming off an ACL in the slot. Maybe we do go after Bell? If we do in fact retain Macc & he brings in a bright offensive minded coach, it will certainly be evident free agency & most of the draft are going to be offense. Just that realization alone I can live with. It'll give me hope. 

[rangerous]

5 hours ago, Jetster said:

A requisite to a rebuild in the NFL for a Head Coach is can you develop players? It was immediately obvious to any knowledgeable football fan that Todd Bowles leaned towards veterans. After a VETERAN led 2015 campaign & the decision was made to cut aging vets & rebuild, the Jets heirachy did Mcaggnan a disservice immediately by keeping Todd Bowles. Think about this, how much experience did Bowles have to build an entire team with younger players? So while I fault Macc for his misses, he was doomed to fail anyway with one of the worst coaches in football. 

Is there anyone on this forum that believes Todd Bowles would have had the wherewithal to develop a guy like Edelman like the Pats did? The Jets are a poorly organized & coached football team. Bowles DOES NOT get the best from his players each Sunday. Do any of us really know what type of team Macc wants? All of us know what type of team Bowles wants, run the ball & play great defense. That was clear from the dismissal of Morton. Maybe that was the start of the rift between Bowles & Macc.

Clearly without anyone IN CHARGE, Macc placated to his defensive head coach, Revis, Cro, Skrine, Gilchrist, Lee, Jenkins, Burris, Williams, Adams, Maye, Donahue, Clark, Jones, Anderson, Williamson, Shepard, Nickerson, Fatukasi. 

And right now the Jets are ranked 23rd overall defensively. Basically bottom 10. And I would venture to guess bottom 3 in must stops. Honestly, I don't think it's the end of the world if the Jets keep Macc. Clearly he's had his misses, they all do, but I have no doubt in my mind with 100 million & a high pick the defense will be good enough in 2019 to compete at a high level just by finding a veteran DC & fixing the pass rush. Bowles/Rogers are clearly bottom rung NFL defensive coaches. Outside of pass rusher, there is more speed & athleticism on this defense than what Rex had. 

Like others have said, I'm not crying tears for Macc if they kick him out the door, but, if not, I think given a new directive this offseason which is get some pass rushers & EVERY OTHER ASSET goes to offense he can & will be OK. Herndon was a great pick. Wait until we can get a couple explosive players around him. Someone earlier mentioned Eli Rogers coming off an ACL in the slot. Maybe we do go after Bell? If we do in fact retain Macc & he brings in a bright offensive minded coach, it will certainly be evident free agency & most of the draft are going to be offense. Just that realization alone I can live with. It'll give me hope. 

how bowles develops players is something fans can only guess at.  it sure does seem he favors vets and is reluctant to change starters even if they haven't been playing well.  see spencer long for example.  and it was the same thing with petty and even hack.  and he certainly had to get pushed to put geno in after fitz injured his hand.  these are head scratchers.  and it's not like these guys turned out to be much good but if that's the case why keep them on the team so long.

[ASH1962]

10 minutes ago, rangerous said:

how bowles develops players is something fans can only guess at.  it sure does seem he favors vets and is reluctant to change starters even if they haven't been playing well.  see spencer long for example.  and it was the same thing with petty and even hack.  and he certainly had to get pushed to put geno in after fitz injured his hand.  these are head scratchers.  and it's not like these guys turned out to be much good but if that's the case why keep them on the team so long.

Respectfully disagree. Yes in year 1 how Bowles develops players is anyone's guess, but after 4 years it is a PROVEN FACT that he cannot develop a gold fish, let alone NFL players.

Name one player that he has developed into a superstar or above average NFL player.

[Jetster]

4 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Respectfully disagree. Yes in year 1 how Bowles develops players is anyone's guess, but after 4 years it is a PROVEN FACT that he cannot develop a gold fish, let alone NFL players.

Name one player that he has developed into a superstar or above average NFL player.

Bowles response after the Fins loss when the defense only gave up 6 points was such classic Bowles crazy talk, "we needed the D to get some turnovers", WTF? 

I love that Bart Scott went crazy! This guy is SO OLD SCHOOL he has no clue that offense is part of the equation in the NFL! Can you imagine in this day & age, when scoring has never been higher in the league, your defense holds the opposing team to 6 points & in your presser your asking your defense to do MORE? LMAO! 

Hey Todd, if we didn't waste every god damn resource we have giving you like 20 defensive guys in the draft & free agency, we just might have been able to score 14 & possibly win. I mean in 2018, asking your offense for 14 points isn't a stretch, right?

[Joe Jets fan]

No one will ever know the truth, but I would love to know which pics were Bowles choices and which were Maccagnan?  Which players did Mac pic thinking they needed to be developed and Bowles never did a thing with.  

Wish we could know the real story

[56mehl56]

Just now, Joe Jets fan said:

No one will ever know the truth, but I would love to know which pics were Bowles choices and which were Maccagnan?  Which players did Mac pic thinking they needed to be developed and Bowles never did a thing with.  

Wish we could know the real story

What pick was influenced by Bowles and Mac is clearly up for debate. What is not up for debate is what the HC has actulally done with the players picked - absolutely nothing!!!

[Ex-Rex]

13 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

No one will ever know the truth, but I would love to know which pics were Bowles choices and which were Maccagnan?  Which players did Mac pic thinking they needed to be developed and Bowles never did a thing with.  

Wish we could know the real story

Unfortunately we probably never will and that is sad, but what is uplifting is that the Jets will finally cut ties with Bowles who not only was veteran specific, he was error forgiving as well. Guys that missed assignments, had penalties etc were never dealt with, just trotted back out there the next week to do it all again.

[Jetster]

45 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Unfortunately we probably never will and that is sad, but what is uplifting is that the Jets will finally cut ties with Bowles who not only was veteran specific, he was error forgiving as well. Guys that missed assignments, had penalties etc were never dealt with, just trotted back out there the next week to do it all again.

+ guys that skipped meetings too

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, ASH1962 said:

Respectfully disagree. Yes in year 1 how Bowles develops players is anyone's guess, but after 4 years it is a PROVEN FACT that he cannot develop a gold fish, let alone NFL players.

Name one player that he has developed into a superstar or above average NFL player.

my point is not that bowles knows how to develop players but how the players he's given don't develop.  there's a lot of argument about whether bowles doesn't know how or he's being given bad players by mac.  as a fan we can't see what bowles does to develop players.  we only see the poor quality of play week in and week out.

[Stark]

6 minutes ago, rangerous said:

my point is not that bowles knows how to develop players but how the players he's given don't develop.  there's a lot of argument about whether bowles doesn't know how or he's being given bad players by mac.  as a fan we can't see what bowles does to develop players.  we only see the poor quality of play week in and week out.

This is partly why I wanted to fires Bowles weeks ago. It would possibly answer some of these questions. If we see a change in players performance then you could conclude that Bowles was more of a hindrance than helpful for the players. 

It also would not have hurt any part of Darnold there’s no way he would have gotten less from a coaching change. Who knows maybe he gets canned and the offensive plays change. We will never know but I think Bowles is hot garbage. Should have been fired last year. 

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

my point is not that bowles knows how to develop players but how the players he's given don't develop.  there's a lot of argument about whether bowles doesn't know how or he's being given bad players by mac.  as a fan we can't see what bowles does to develop players.  we only see the poor quality of play week in and week out.

Every player in the secondary during that last drive by the Titans were BOWLES GUYS! Tru, Skrine, Clairborne, Adams, Lee, Jenkins, Leo, all Bowles GUYS!

[ZachEY]

tl;dr

Where are all the young guys Bowles failed to develop now?

Why aren't "good" coaches developing Smith, Maudlin, Harrison, Hackenberg, Stewart, Hansen, Burris, Petty, Donahue?

[Joe Jets fan]

21 hours ago, TeddEY said:

tl;dr

Where are all the young guys Bowles failed to develop now?

Why aren't "good" coaches developing Smith, Maudlin, Harrison, Hackenberg, Stewart, Hansen, Burris, Petty, Donahue?

Maybe they were Bowles picks to begin with?

we just don’t know what happens in the room.  

Also I would think you have to develop a player in his first few years   Other teams don’t look at released players and think, boy, I can develop them  

 

[genot]

23 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Respectfully disagree. Yes in year 1 how Bowles develops players is anyone's guess, but after 4 years it is a PROVEN FACT that he cannot develop a gold fish, let alone NFL players.

Name one player that he has developed into a superstar or above average NFL player.

Leo is a perfect example. The guy is an athletic freak. Can't beat double teams, has trouble at times getting off blocks. He stands too tall, doesn't use his hands, doesn't work angles. has not been coached well. Same can be said for Anderson, to a lesser extent.

[Jimmy 2 Times]

One consistent thing in the TB era is the multiple pre-snap penalties every week.

They are drive killers.

He isn't good enough to get his players to stop losing the game before the play even happens.

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

One consistent thing in the TB era is the multiple pre-snap penalties every week.

They are drive killers.

He isn't good enough to get his players to stop losing the game before the play even happens.

So freaking true. Could you imagine Parcells after lol of those presnap penalties over & over? They actually have some classic tape of Parcells going to the bench to have a discussion with players & it usually ends with Bill barking all the way back to the sideline.