An Interesting Fact About The Patriots Loss

[nyjunc]

40 minutes ago, jamesr said:

And the Phins are at a crossroads with Tanny, so although they are the current "challenger", they're nowhere near set to take over at the top.

AFC East will be interesting the next few years, to say the least. 

The Jets and bills are going to take over once Brady retires. Buffalo already has a good HC and a potential QB, we have the QB and need the coach

[Hael]

They’re pretty good, just not great.  They’re a bit of a strange team.  First few weeks they committed no penalties, had an O that was clicking and a D that was bad.  Then it flipped, and the O was bad and the D was carrying games, and in the last few weeks penalties everywhere.

End of the day, it used to be Brady, Gronk and Edelman who would carry things late in the season when everyone was playing hurt.  Those three are beginning to lose a little something objectively speaking and so they’ve lost some close games which they usually grind through.

theyll likely win some games in the playoffs, but I just don’t see them having quite enough consistency and talent to beat KC.  You can see why BB wanted to trade Gronk tho.

[Rexorcism]

With their 5th loss on the season, this is the first time since 2009 that they wont't reach at least 12-4 on the season. Also if they lose again they may be playing their first WC since that year as well. They are on the decline, Brady is aging.
Here's to hoping that Sammy D destroys the evil empire to end the season. Let's go Jets, and f*ck the Pats!!!

yay

[ZachEY]

12 hours ago, ASH1962 said:

Amazing we say they are declining every season, and every season they win the AFCE and go deep in the playoffs

Winning the AFCE is in large part a product of the other teams in the AFCE.  Not hard to get a bye either, when you’re typically spotted 6 wins a season.

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

In otherwords, we probably have another 5 years of this dude tea bagging the league unfortunately. 

I remember hearing this in 2014 when the chiefs destroyed the Pats, then again in 2016. 

I really hope it's Brady's last season so we can move on from this era....but I stopped doubting this dudes ability to close years ago. 

When he actually leaves the game and hangs it up then I'll celebrate.  

Sure, but this is the first time in a long time that the Pats have been playing this poorly this late in the season.

Early season losses don't matter much.  Losing back to back games is a huge rarity in the Belichick era, and doing so at this stage of the season is crippling.  And we all know they have a huge playoff homefield advantage due to cheating, which they're currently squandering right now by falling to 3/4 seed territory. 

They'll likely be back strong next season....then again, who knows what Belichick is planning to do?.....But their chances of winning yet another AFC Title are pretty slim for this season at least.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Living in New England realistic Pat fans are finally seeing the end of the line. The Patriots had a great schedule this year getting most of the playoff teams at home where they still don't lose.

They got the Texans in the opener with Watson coming back from his ACL, slipped by KC by 3 with a last second win, Colts, Vikings.

Brady is going to be 42. Gronk is a shell of himself, Edelman has taken a beating similar to Chrebet at the end of his career, will Gordon not eff up again? Their defense isn't close to as good as past defenses. 

Theyre still good enough to beat any team on any given day because of Brady. But, with us having a 21 year old young pup QB, it's getting much closer to the end for the Patriots dynasty. 

 

Even if Gordon stays out of trouble, Brady is the wrong QB for him right now. 

Brady has targetted Gordon plenty all season long (6.2 targets per game) but can't get it to him (3.6 catches per game for under 64 yds/game). 

Gordon needs a guy with a cannon for an arm who can just throw the ball up to him.  Not a "3 steps and get the ball out" guy that Brady has turned into.  Imagine Gordon with Mahomes?  Good lord....

[Jetsfan80]

46 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

So they go 11-5.

The horror 

The games with Buffalo and us are, amazingly, not locks.  Though both of those games are at home, so....

[JetPotato]

13 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Macagnan is going to sign a bunch of good free agents and draft Ferrell who will be the next John Abraham 

 

brady tears his ACL week 1 next year and retires 

 

Dolphins and Bills both suck

 

Jets go 12-4 in 2019

 

"Good free agents"

Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

And the Phins are at a crossroads with Tanny, so although they are the current "challenger", they're nowhere near set to take over at the top.

AFC East will be interesting the next few years, to say the least. 

Fish don't win on the road, fattened up on home schedule.  The heat is a great home field advantage to them. 

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

In otherwords, we probably have another 5 years of this dude tea bagging the league unfortunately. 

I remember hearing this in 2014 when the chiefs destroyed the Pats, then again in 2016. 

I really hope it's Brady's last season so we can move on from this era....but I stopped doubting this dudes ability to close years ago. 

When he actually leaves the game and hangs it up then I'll celebrate. 

Difference is before we were assuming he had to start his decline, the calendar and his age told us he should.  This time we're seeing a decline.  And not just to Brady.  Gronk has two red zone catches, not normal.  He was sucking wind in the 4th quarter.  The Pats look slow and like they don't have that quick strike firepower anymore.  

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure, but this is the first time in a long time that the Pats have been playing this poorly this late in the season.

Early season losses don't matter much.  Losing back to back games is a huge rarity in the Belichick era, and doing so at this stage of the season is crippling.  And we all know they have a huge playoff homefield advantage due to cheating, which they're currently squandering right now by falling to 3/4 seed territory. 

They'll likely be back strong next season....then again, who knows what Belichick is planning to do?.....But their chances of winning yet another AFC Title are pretty slim for this season at least.

You're proving my point. They've been so historically good that "playing poorly" for them is leading the division, being undefeated at home, in the playoff race and losing two games in a row in December since forever. 

Here's the problem. None of this matters much, when the other AFC East teams cant string together respectable seasons and the Pats are still 3-1 in this division. 

All this "disaster" talk is hyperbolic. They're 9-5 and are undefeated at home and has lost just 1 game in their division. This Patriots team is a different team in the playoffs, and even if they lose in the playoffs, they still dominate this division and this league until another team in this division says otherwise. 

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Difference is before we were assuming he had to start his decline, the calendar and his age told us he should.  This time we're seeing a decline.  And not just to Brady.  Gronk has two red zone catches, not normal.  He was sucking wind in the 4th quarter.  The Pats look slow and like they don't have that quick strike firepower anymore.  

I heard that in 2014 and 2016. Maybe we're seeing a decline, but their decline is still better than anything else in this division. I just dont know what the excitement is about. They're crippled and look like a disaster, yet still runs the division. What does that say about the other teams in the division? 

 

All im saying is, the domination will not end until the man retires. 

[Sarge4Tide]

I still blame Mo Lewis for this entire debacle

[Savage69]

13 hours ago, Philc1 said:

He’s a drop back qb who gets rid of the ball quickly plus he has had one documented major injury his entire career which was an ACL year in his non plant leg

 

Steve Deberg played until he was 47.  Vinny Testaverde player until he was 42

DeBerg played as a backup at 44 but his last year as a starter was age 37..When Chris Chandler was hurt DeBerg played against the Jets in 98 and lost 28-3.  George Blanda played until 47 but was a kicker.. Another old guy that started a game at 44 was Warren Moon..

[southparkcpa]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

maybe the game was finally being called square.  the patsies have gotten the benefit of penalties for quite some time.  they hold on every pass play defensively and offensively.

I was shocked that the last 2 minutes weren't filled with Steeler penalty calls.  I didn't see any but the Pats get calls all the time. Watching Brady wine for calls is pathetic.

[Jetster]

12 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I was shocked that the last 2 minutes weren't filled with Steeler penalty calls.  I didn't see any but the Pats get calls all the time. Watching Brady wine for calls is pathetic.

They all whine for calls! On every incompletion Brady throws his hands up & so does the guy nearest to the ball, whether that's Gronk or Edelman. 

I swear to you Belichick coaches this, plant the seed early for the refs that they are missing calls. Probably an Ernie Adams strategic plan.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

I heard that in 2014 and 2016. Maybe we're seeing a decline, but their decline is still better than anything else in this division. I just dont know what the excitement is about. They're crippled and look like a disaster, yet still runs the division. What does that say about the other teams in the division? 

 

All im saying is, the domination will not end until the man retires. 

I never heard any of this in 2014 or 2016.  And I never saw what I've seen the last two weeks.  This isn't theory, this is what we're seeing.  No one is saying they suck, but they've come back to the pack

[Villain The Foe]

20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I never heard any of this in 2014 or 2016.  And I never saw what I've seen the last two weeks.  This isn't theory, this is what we're seeing.  No one is saying they suck, but they've come back to the pack

Here's a link to just one article. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2215366-embarrassing-mnf-blowout-loss-to-chiefs-sounds-death-knell-for-patriots-dynasty

The first sentence of the article starts off with "So this is how the New England Patriots dynasty dies: with thunderous applause". 
 This was 4 years ago back when the league thought Tom was an 37 year-old old man by then. 

 

Let me give a quote of what folks were saying (and allegedly seeing) in 2014 based on this article: 

"On Monday night, he completed just 60.9 of his 23 passes for a meager 159 yards, one touchdown, two interceptions and a lost fumble. The touchdown, however, came late in the third quarter and only cut the Chiefs' lead to 27-7. The interception was a brutal pick-six that earned him what might be the first performance-related benching of his professional career:

Any quarterback would struggle in the face of that kind of heat. Brady used to be the best in the business when it came to staying cool in the pocket, and at no point this season has Brady looked anything like the unflappable guy he used to be. The 6.0 percent sack rate he carried going into Monday Night Football would be his worst since 2001, when he first stepped in as starter.

The bottom line: Brady is no longer a difference-making quarterback. He can't save the Patriots' season without help, and it's hard to see where that help will come from". 

This wasnt a theory back in 2014 either, and I bet that if I go back 4 years on this forum I will find threads from folks saying the same exact thing that they're saying today. 

And sure, folks arent saying they suck, but they're saying from "Pig ripening" to "They've been declining for years". All the Pats have shown even this season, is that they're the best team in this division and among the best in the AFC. Tom would have to play until he's 50 in order for his Pats to look like how his division rivals look. 

Im going to wait for this tool to retire. 

 

 

[Jetster]

15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I never heard any of this in 2014 or 2016.  And I never saw what I've seen the last two weeks.  This isn't theory, this is what we're seeing.  No one is saying they suck, but they've come back to the pack

Exactly! Brady, Gronk & Edelman are not going to get BETTER with age at this point. It's so funny the reactions to this? The last time they looked like they were faltering a bit, Gronk & Edelman were in their prime, that's definitely not the case anymore. Did you see Gronk run yesterday? Plus their defense is mediocre AT BEST. 

In a league full of sh*tty teams & a division full of crappy teams, of course they'll still win a lot of games, Brady is the GOAT, he's gonna have his moments still, they'll just be a lot less of them soon enough. 

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Here's a link to just one article. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2215366-embarrassing-mnf-blowout-loss-to-chiefs-sounds-death-knell-for-patriots-dynasty

The first sentence of the article starts off with "So this is how the New England Patriots dynasty dies: with thunderous applause". 
 This was 4 years ago back when the league thought Tom was an 37 year-old old man by then. 

 

Let me give a quote of what folks were saying (and allegedly seeing) in 2014 based on this article: 

"On Monday night, he completed just 60.9 of his 23 passes for a meager 159 yards, one touchdown, two interceptions and a lost fumble. The touchdown, however, came late in the third quarter and only cut the Chiefs' lead to 27-7. The interception was a brutal pick-six that earned him what might be the first performance-related benching of his professional career:

Any quarterback would struggle in the face of that kind of heat. Brady used to be the best in the business when it came to staying cool in the pocket, and at no point this season has Brady looked anything like the unflappable guy he used to be. The 6.0 percent sack rate he carried going into Monday Night Football would be his worst since 2001, when he first stepped in as starter.

The bottom line: Brady is no longer a difference-making quarterback. He can't save the Patriots' season without help, and it's hard to see where that help will come from". 

This wasnt a theory back in 2014 either, and I bet that if I go back 4 years on this forum I will find threads from folks saying the same exact thing that they're saying today. 

And sure, folks arent saying they suck, but they're saying from "Pig ripening" to "They've been declining for years". All the Pats have shown even this season, is that they're the best team in this division and among the best in the AFC. Tom would have to play until he's 50 in order for the Pats to look like how his division looks. 

Im going to wait for this tool to retire. 

 

 

And let me give you a piece from the one shltty article:

Their failure was so complete, so embarrassing, that it's hard to see any way they'll win more games than they lose—let alone collect their usual division title 

could care less, they look different.  This piece of nonsense was an over the top response to one game.  Not after watching 14 games.  Doesn't require 1000+ words explaining what we're seeing isn't what we're seeing

[Villain The Foe]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And let me give you a piece from the one shltty article:

Their failure was so complete, so embarrassing, that it's hard to see any way they'll win more games than they lose—let alone collect their usual division title 

could care less, they look different.  This piece of nonsense was an over the top response to one game.  Not after watching 14 games

Here's another...from The Guardian. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/sep/30/patriots-chiefs-tom-brady-nfl

It starts off with "The beginning of the end for Brady?". 

 

How about this one from NFL.com 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000403197/article/patriots-offense-struggles-mightily-in-loss-to-chiefs

That has the exact same thing we hear about Gronk TODAY such as...

"The Patriots used to be a team built to make comebacks, but they have no explosive elements in their offense. Gronkowski is moving at half speed, and they didn't even activate second-year wide receivers Kenbrell Thompkins and Aaron Dobson. Brady started forcing passes and was not on the same page as his receivers."

That one came from the NFL itself. 

 

So, you "watched" the past 14 games of the Patriots and have concluded that their division leading 9-5 record, undefeated streak at home is means the titanic is sinking because they lost to a tough Steelers team and a fluke Miami miracle because Belichick decided not to have an actual Safety on the field? 

 

Folks arent saying this because they watched 14 games, they're saying this because this is what the TV and internet articles are saying. They're being influenced....just like they were in 2014. 

But look, no big deal...it doesnt matter what the Patriots look like when our Jets arent doing anything anyway. What good is it for Tom Brady and the Patriots to no longer look like a dominate force when the Jets cant win more than 5 games a season? 

 

The entire conversation if we look at it from that view point is irrelevant. 

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Exactly! Brady, Gronk & Edelman are not going to get BETTER with age at this point. It's so funny the reactions to this? The last time they looked like they were faltering a bit, Gronk & Edelman were in their prime, that's definitely not the case anymore. Did you see Gronk run yesterday? Plus their defense is mediocre AT BEST. 

In a league full of sh*tty teams & a division full of crappy teams, of course they'll still win a lot of games, Brady is the GOAT, he's gonna have his moments still, they'll just be a lot less of them soon enough. 

Exactly.  Their D.  The offense is inconsistent.  Heard Gronk has 2 red zone catches all season.  And the idea that it's all Brady is nonsense.  It's all of them falling off.  They couldn't put away a mediocre fish team, funny how many mistakes a team makes when their to players don't perform.  Then in a huge game, home field etc on the line 10 pts?

Being good enough to beat up on mediocre teams while losing to teams they used to get up for and dominate is proof, not some far fetched theory based on nothing.  

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Difference is before we were assuming he had to start his decline, the calendar and his age told us he should.  This time we're seeing a decline.  And not just to Brady.  Gronk has two red zone catches, not normal.  He was sucking wind in the 4th quarter.  The Pats look slow and like they don't have that quick strike firepower anymore.  

It's not even the decline in "ability" that will get him. Its the hits and the grind.  Yeah, hes been getting that high quality HGH from his buddy, and his mythical TB12 method, but I dont care how much vegetables and avocado ice cream you eat, when you're on your forties, you just dont bounce back as quickly. 

 

At 40-45 years old, I could still do everything I could at 30 on the Fireground. The difference was that the next day, I just felt it a hell of a lot more, and while Fighting Fire is a Tough, physically demanding job, I wasn't getting tackled and knocked to the ground by 270 lbs dudes. 

He will be able to stand in a pocket and throw an accurate midrange pass until hes 50, but hes going to start paying a steeper and steeper price to do it. Time always wins, and it's just starting to get difficult for him. I'd love to see him overstay his career.  I would love to see the broken shell of TB getting pounded into the ground at 44 years old because hes too stubborn.  

[JustInFudge]

This will be a fun thread to revisit when the Patriots are in the Super Bowl again.

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Here's another...from The Guardian. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/sep/30/patriots-chiefs-tom-brady-nfl

It starts off with "The beginning of the end for Brady?". 

 

How about this one from NFL.com 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000403197/article/patriots-offense-struggles-mightily-in-loss-to-chiefs

That has the exact same thing we hear about Gronk TODAY such as...

"The Patriots used to be a team built to make comebacks, but they have no explosive elements in their offense. Gronkowski is moving at half speed, and they didn't even activate second-year wide receivers Kenbrell Thompkins and Aaron Dobson. Brady started forcing passes and was not on the same page as his receivers."

That one came from the NFL itself. 

 

So, you "watched" the past 14 games of the Patriots and have concluded that their division leading 9-5 record, undefeated streak at home is means the titanic is sinking because they lost to a tough Steelers team and a fluke Miami miracle because Belichick decided not to have an actual Safety on the field? 

 

Folks arent saying this because they watched 14 games, they're saying this because this is what the TV and internet articles are saying. They're being influenced....just like they were in 2014. 

But look, no big deal...it doesnt matter what the Patriots look like when our Jets arent doing anything anyway. What good is it for Tom Brady and the Patriots to no longer look like a dominate force when the Jets cant win more than 5 games a season? 

 

The entire conversation if we look at it from that view point is irrelevant. 

It was one game.  And no one was saying he was done or mortal.  They were questioning be what his future was.  Hardly like this season where he hasn't been the same QB   You want to harp on it and use the idea that in two articles after a loss they were wrong proves that what we've seen for a season is meaningless fine.  I'm not getting into an argument over this.  Anyone who has watched them knows they're not the same

[Matt39]

If there was ever a time for ownership to spend on a real HC/GM/Pres this would be the time. Clear house. Brady actually looks like he’s decling. Gronk’s done. Maccagnan got 4 years and the roster is still at 4-12, 5-11.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

This will be a fun thread to revisit when the Patriots are in the Super Bowl again.

Even funnier if they go out in the first round of the playoffs

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If there was ever a time for ownership to spend on a real HC/GM/Pres this would be time time. Clear house. Brady actually looks like he’s decling. Gronk’s done. Maccagnan got 4 years and the roster is still at 4-12, 5-11.

Agree its time to pay a decent GM who will choose a HC that will be successful here and hopefully draft like no other GM has done before. 

 

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Even funnier if they go out in the first round of the playoffs

I sure hope so.  I would love nothing more than to watch the Patriots get embarrassed 1st round.  I just highly doubt that's the case.    

I dont see Lamar Jackson rolling up to Foxborough and pulling out a win.

[Villain The Foe]

On 12/17/2018 at 6:50 PM, Jet Nut said:

It was one game.  You want to harp on it and use the idea that in two articles after a loss they were wrong proves that what we've seen for a season is meaningless fine.  I'm not getting into an argument over this.  Anyone who has watched them knows they're not the same

You know the irony of this? You're talking about "one game" as if folks arent doing that right now. 

Would we even be talking about this if the Pats won last night? No. We're talking about it because they lost 2 games in the month of December. 

Im not harping on anything. Im comparing the last time I heard this talk to the first time I heard this talk, and im simply saying that if you bet against this man you're more than likely going to be wrong. 

Folks can do whatever they want. My team still looks like sh*t, I'd rather someone fix that mess rather than me figuring out which year Tom Brady'd body will decide not to be the greatest in the world at Quarterbacking. 

Folks who watched them in 2014 said the same thing, and they pretended they didnt say it when they were in the SB. 

You know what would make your position relevant? If the Bills and Jets can beat the Patriots in the next two weeks. If not, then the Patriots will be 11-5 going into the playoffs and no one will remember this conversation.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You know the irony of this? You're talking about "one game" as if folks arent doing that right now. 

Would we even be talking about this if the Pats won last night? No. We're talking about it because they lost 2 games in the month of December. 

Im not harping on anything. Im comparing the last time I heard this talk to the first time I heard this talk, and im simply saying that if you bet against this man you're more than likely going to be wrong. 

Folks can do whatever they want. My team still looks like sh*t, I'd rather someone fix that mess rather than me figuring out which year Tom Brady'd body will decide not to be the greatest in the world at Quarterbacking. 

Folks who watched them in 2014 said the same thing, and they pretended they didnt say it when they were in the SB. 

You know what would make your position relevant? If the Bills and Jets can beat the Patriots in the next two weeks. If not, then the Patriots will be 11-5 going into the playoffs and no one will remember this conversation. 

What does it mean to say we wouldn't be talking if they won.  They lost.  I'd we won a free more games Bowles wouldn't be losing his job.  And it's not about last night.  You're not getting that.  

You want to know what's not relevant?  That the idea the at the Pats are in a decline will be based on them losing to 2 4 win teams. 

One more time, whatever.  We don't agree.

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

I sure hope so.  I would love nothing more than to watch the Patriots get embarrassed 1st round.  I just highly doubt that's the case.    

I dont see Lamar Jackson rolling up to Foxborough and pulling out a win.

That would be f'ing epic. If there was ever a team to do it, it's the Ravens. They've always played the Pats hard in the playoffs. 

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

What does it mean to say we wouldn't be talking if they won.  They lost.  I'd we won a free more games Bowles wouldn't be losing his job.  And it's not about last night.  You're not getting that.  

But it's "one game"....like you said. 

 

The dissonance. 

 

Im done. 

[LIJetsFan]

17 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

No way maybe 1 more his age is catching up with him he didn't look good today against a good team where he used to excel. 

who goes first Brady or Eli?

[BurnleyJet]

Next two years a great time put in place parts to take over the AFCE.

Never mind Brady, how long has Belichick got left? - He's 66, 67 before next season.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, LIJetsFan said:

who goes first Brady or Eli?

Probably Brady the Giants will wheel Eli out there he's the franchise you  know.