Interesting HC/Front Office Rumor

[Scott Dierking]

55 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Bit has documented it here often; Johnsons don't like spending big money on front office and coaching personnel. Not something they have ever done. So not sure if this is big talk or the usual MO of hiring some career assistant as HC. But if I were betting, it's mostly big talk.

Based on sites that I have seen, Bowles makes approximately $4mm a year. Now, that is in the bottom 1/3 of the league for head coaches, BUT when you consider that guys that are at the 6-10 as highest paid are at around $6-7.5mm,,the discrepancy is not that great.  There are the outliers with Bellichick and Gruden, up around $10mm per year.

Of course, this does not tell you how much assistants make. Nor scouting department, etc. Those are difficult figures to ascertain.

[CTM]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Based on sites that I have seen, Bowles makes approximately $4mm a year. Now, that is in the bottom 1/3 of the league for head coaches, BUT when you consider that guys that are at the 6-10 as highest paid are at around $6-7.5mm,,the discrepancy is not that great.  There are the outliers with Bellichick and Gruden, up around $10mm per year.

Of course, this does not tell you how much assistants make. Nor scouting department, etc. Those are difficult figures to ascertain.

6-7.5M is 50 to 87.5% more than 4M. Its significant to Bowles or as my candidate m, I assure you 

[CTM]

Dup

[section314]

I say we go after the Army coach, Jeff Monken. I mean, if you can win at Army........?

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, CTM said:

6-7.5M is 50 to 87.5% more than 4M. Its significant to Bowles or as my candidate m, I assure you 

1. Bowles is not worth that, nor has the experience or success as the coaches making that coin. 

2. $2-3.5mm as a whole to entire overhead of a football operation is a pittance, in the big scheme of things.

3. We do not know, of course, whether the "Johnson is cheap" motto is true, alone by Bowles' salary. If he is indeed going after Macarthy, then he will be paying prime.

4. Bowles's salary alone does not tell us whether Johnson is cheap on that scale.

Bottom line, I would be interested to the numbers or salaries Bit has to support his position,. The Bowles number alone does not qualify it.

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, section314 said:

I say we go after the Army coach, Jeff Monken. I mean, if you can win at Army........?

Army players are already motivated and they give you everything. While the recruiting is certainly not a picnic, they do gain an advantage of not having prima donna athletes. Although, Parcells came through the Air Force coaching window, and Bobby Knight at Army (I believe).

I spoke to an Air Force scout at one of my son's baseball tournaments a couple of years ago. I asked how he was doing and how recruiting was going. He wryly said. "Oh, I am just looking to find kids that want a $250,000 education for free". I will never forget that.

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Nick Saban is almost 70 himself and basically runs the power I exclusively, unless his QB cant throw, then he'll add some RPO elements.

He wins because he has the most talent on the field not because he's innovative.  

People used to say Pete Carroll was just a college coach and couldn't make it in the NFL and he only won because he had more talent. Carroll also failed in the NFL first. Saban is a better college coach than Carroll was. I'm sure he's smart enough to know running mostly power I isn't going to win in today's NFL. 

 

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

1. Bowles is not worth that, nor has the experience or success as the coaches making that coin. 

2. $2-3.5mm as a whole to entire overhead of a football operation is a pittance, in the big scheme of things.

3. We do not know, of course, whether the "Johnson is cheap" motto is true, alone by Bowles' salary. If he is indeed going after Macarthy, then he will be paying prime.

4. Bowles's salary alone does not tell us whether Johnson is cheap on that scale.

Bottom line, I would be interested to the numbers or salaries Bit has to support his position,. The Bowles number alone does not qualify it.

1) Agreed

2) Agreed

3) Agreed

4) Agreed

The point I was making is that the difference between 4M and 7M is HUGE for a the candidates. It's chump change for the org, but a big detractor if they are going to low ball candidates (particularly in the high tax hellhole we live in)

[section314]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Army players are already motivated and they give you everything. While the recruiting is certainly not a picnic, they do gain an advantage of not having prima donna athletes. Although, Parcells came through the Air Force coaching window, and Bobby Knight at Army (I believe).

I spoke to an Air Force scout at one of my son's baseball tournaments a couple of years ago. I asked how he was doing and how recruiting was going. He wryly said. "Oh, I am just looking to find kids that want a $250,000 education for free". I will never forget that.

Good line. You ever read John Feinstein's book about the Army-Navy game? Maybe the best sports book I've read.  I think full title is "Army vs Navy, College Football's Purest Rivalry." You won't be able to put it down.

[Scott Dierking]

30 minutes ago, section314 said:

Good line. You ever read John Feinstein's book about the Army-Navy game? Maybe the best sports book I've read.  I think full title is "Army vs Navy, College Football's Purest Rivalry." You won't be able to put it down.

I will now. Thanks. Heard of it and I like Feinstein's writing.

[FloridaJetsFan]

If they really wanted to go big game hunting they'd dangle a blank check under Sabans nose with control over personnel. 

Because Saban was such a dominant HC in the NFL?

 

 

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[Larz]

Still can't see the Johnsons leaking this 

Most likely speculation 

[jack48]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:35 PM, dbatesman said:

What's the point of keeping Maccagnan if the next coach is going to bigfoot him from day 1?

to accentuate his insignificance?

[rammagen]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:24 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

If they really wanted to go big game hunting they'd dangle a blank check under Sabans nose with control over personnel. 

I would stay away from Saban. I think he is just a college coach who has already ran from the fins job when things got tough. He lied to fans in Miami saying he would not leave and did. I  do not think he can handle adults and his forte is college

[Barry McCockinner]

1 hour ago, FloridaJetsFan said:

Because Saban was such a dominant HC in the NFL?

 

 

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This is a great thought we haven't considered yet. Let's discuss!

[bitonti]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:20 PM, T0mShane said:

This sounds like Mike Shanahan wants to get back into the league and his agent floated a few trial balloons to remind people that he’s alive.

is he tho? 

get out the elephant guns

the Jets owners are going old game hunting 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

is he tho? 

get out the elephant guns

the Jets owners are going old game hunting 

I can’t even fathom what “big game hunting” would mean to the Johnson brothers. You could probably convince them that John Madden was available and would work for $3 million per and they’d lose their sh*t.

[varjet]

Where do we think the Jets rank in the league in total front Office spend-coaches, GM, scouts, etc.?

I would have to think it’s in the bottom 25%, since we know Bowles and Mac are not top guys paid, and the coordinators are probably low cost too.  

[fltflo]

The drafts & free agency have been heavily weighted to defense. If the GM & Coach are on even footing, which we all know to be true under this stupid set up here, this seems to me like a Bill Parcells quote, "If they want me to make the dinner, they might as well let me pick out the groceries". 

Speaking of which, think a pile of money could get Bill to come back for a second run ?


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[Bugg]

3 hours ago, section314 said:

I say we go after the Army coach, Jeff Monken. I mean, if you can win at Army........?

Agreed. Instead of looking for the old guy, look for the next guy. Met him briefly at a camp at Rutgers a few summers back, very sharp guy. If he can make Army a winning program under some very difficult parameters, he would likely do very well in the NFL. Parcells and Bob Sutton both speak glowingly about what they learned at service academies. Sutton was the last Army coach to take them to a bowl game. 

As to the parameters, all of these Army kids have  difficult schedule, day to day. But also they go through basic training as freshmen in June, and then start football camp in late July. Most schools have some kind of informal noncoach camps down to Div.III called "captain's practices". Army cannot do that. The players are not on campus at all from the end of school until August. And that's also because upper classmen have service commitments every summer. Most college teams have everyone lose weight in camp, but with Army they get to September very underweight. To play a serious Div. I schedule with that is very hard to do, to win  means this guy is squared away. 

 

[Dinamite]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:59 PM, Pac said:

He also forgot traded 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder for RG3...

and people whine about picking Hack 51st overall... 

It is interesting to compare the RG3 trade and the Sam trade.

RG3 went #2 overall and Washington traded the #6 overall  their second round pick that year, their first the year after, and another first the year after that. 

As we know, Sam went #3 for #6 overall, the jets' 2nd round pick and the colts 2nd round pick in the same year, along with a 2ndrd pick the year after.

Now comparing the trades:

The #6 is equivalent across the trades as is the first second round pick (about the same position).

Washington moved to 2, jets moved to 3.

The Washington 1st in the following year is equivalent to the second Jets 2nd round pick

The Washington 1st two years from the trade is equivalent to the Jets 2nd round pick in year 2.

 

So at least in terms of draft capital, it is not that different.  Of course, giving up 1st round picks in the future is worst because those can be more valuable in the long run and the team is mad they can be top 10 picks, but in any given year a 2nd round pick can be acquired by trading a future first round pick.

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

People used to say Pete Carroll was just a college coach and couldn't make it in the NFL and he only won because he had more talent. Carroll also failed in the NFL first. Saban is a better college coach than Carroll was. I'm sure he's smart enough to know running mostly power I isn't going to win in today's NFL. 

 

Apples to Oranges, my man.  Not even remotely a close comparison.

Pete Carrolll was in the NFL for 20 years and had 2 Head Coaching gigs before going to USC.  He made the playoffs, twice, in New England before heading to USC.  When he fled USC to escape all the sanctions that were coming his way for all the cheating he did and went to Seattle, he was still in his late 50's.  Pete had clearly demonstrated he had the chops to be an NFL coach. 

Nick Saban has spent 4 seasons in the NFL, 3 as a DC and 1 1/2 as a Head Coach when he lied and quit on his team mid season.  He was a failure at both stops.  He refers to his time under Bill Belichik in Cleveland as the DC as "worst year of his life".  lmfao.  He's pushing 70, he's stubborn, he's a dictator and he hated the NFL life.  I honeslty think its a huge stretch to think he'd adapt to the NFL.  Tigers dont change their stripes. 

Pointless conversation anyway, Saban isnt leaving Bama till he retires.  

 

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, varjet said:

Where do we think the Jets rank in the league in total front Office spend-coaches, GM, scouts, etc.?

I would have to think it’s in the bottom 25%, since we know Bowles and Mac are not top guys paid, and the coordinators are probably low cost too.  

Woody and his even dumber brother scare off any legit big name HC

 

That’s probably why Bowles is getting another season

 

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, fltflo said:

Speaking of which, think a pile of money could get Bill to come back for a second run ?


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Yes, I actually think if Parcells got offered enough guaranteed money he’d come back as VP of football ops

 

If that happens watch Belichick weasel his way over to coach Sam in a couple years

[Jetster]

Darnold is the game changer. Coaches will go where they think they'll have the chance of the most success. Bowles came here because NO ONE ELSE was gonna knock on his door, but now we need to shoot higher. The days of Woody poking his head in the door and saying, "Tim Tebow?" Are over. The Johnsons stay out of the way for the most part. This isn't Washington or Dallas, or Denver for that matter where Elway wears the Kings Crown. 

[UntouchableCrew]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:29 PM, TuscanyTile2 said:

I dislike Urban as a person but he's still a tremendous coach.

I can't take credit for this line (a friend of mine said it) but what big game has Saban won when he's had less talent?  Meanwhile Urban won the national championship with his 3rd string QB against Bama a few years ago.

Did he really have less talent? That third string QB was an NFL draft pick. Seriously, compare the NFL talent on the 2014 Ohio State and 2014 Alabama teams.

[Charlie Brown]

I still want Shanahan!!

Based on the information that we have seen since Bowles’ release and the retention of the current Jets coaching staff Shanahan would be the ideal fit since he could train Bates to competence w/o disrupting Sam Darnold.  

It is easy to say bring in this or that OC or DC but you don’t want to distrupt Sam’s development.

Shanahan would come in seamlessly and get the job done, how many other candidates can we truly say that about?

Im all in on Shanahan!! 

[jetsons]

^^^ no thx.

[nyjunc]

I will never understand the fascination w/ Mike Shanahan.

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I will never understand the fascination w/ Mike Shanahan.

A lot of it has to do with the success from his coaching tree but the big thing for the Jets is the ability to fill out a team of coaches. Shanahan has a vast network that he can pull from.

[neckdemon]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:13 PM, Integrity28 said:

Elway: Get me Mike.

Mikes agent: The Broncos are interested? Let’s get them to pay Gruden $$$, get me the Jets on the phone.

is the broncos job even attractive at this point? defense was mediocre and the offense is buns with no qb to speak of

[nyjunc]

25 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

A lot of it has to do with the success from his coaching tree but the big thing for the Jets is the ability to fill out a team of coaches. Shanahan has a vast network that he can pull from.

Mcvay came from a coaching family, I'm not sure I credit Mike.  He has his son, who else?  I know kubiak won a SB but I don't think he's a great HC, they won because of dominating defense.  Their O was pathetic.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

is the broncos job even attractive at this point? defense was mediocre and the offense is buns with no qb to speak of

It wouldn't appear to be.  They still have some great pieces on D but Miller is getting older.  Offensively they don't have much.  They need a rebuild.  

[thebuzzardman]

On 12/19/2018 at 8:40 PM, Bugg said:

Agreed. Instead of looking for the old guy, look for the next guy. Met him briefly at a camp at Rutgers a few summers back, very sharp guy. If he can make Army a winning program under some very difficult parameters, he would likely do very well in the NFL. Parcells and Bob Sutton both speak glowingly about what they learned at service academies. Sutton was the last Army coach to take them to a bowl game. 

As to the parameters, all of these Army kids have  difficult schedule, day to day. But also they go through basic training as freshmen in June, and then start football camp in late July. Most schools have some kind of informal noncoach camps down to Div.III called "captain's practices". Army cannot do that. The players are not on campus at all from the end of school until August. And that's also because upper classmen have service commitments every summer. Most college teams have everyone lose weight in camp, but with Army they get to September very underweight. To play a serious Div. I schedule with that is very hard to do, to win  means this guy is squared away. 

 

Based on some terminology and familiarity, are you a West Point graduate? (or had a son/daughter attend) 

My son is highly interested/highly motivated to go. Got his LOA early september, has 2 congressional nominations. Just doing the DoDmerbs/West Point waiver dance right now, based on being flagged for hip impingement/torn labrum (surgically repaired and good to go); It was just passed over to the WP side; I'll assume they'll ask for a final note from the ortho to clear him. As someone who did some time in the service though, I don't consider anything happening until it happens. 

Apologies to other posters for interrupting their speculation over what will ultimately be a disappointing and fruitless head coaching search.

 

 

[bla bla bla]

24 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Mcvay came from a coaching family, I'm not sure I credit Mike.  He has his son, who else?  I know kubiak won a SB but I don't think he's a great HC, they won because of dominating defense.  Their O was pathetic.

McVay, Kyle, and Lynn were all under Shanahan at one point but Shanahan is highly regarded within the NFL, BB has a ton of respect for his family which is why Jimmy G went to the 49ers. Bringing in Shanahan would give our franchise legitimacy for the first time since Tuna was here.