Maccagnan is demonstrably horrible

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

As long as the media supported 2 moves over 4 years by Mac in Free Agency, then everything is fine in Jets land when you really think about it.

 

 

If you listen to Costello, Mehta and Vachiano Macc has done an incredible job.  None of his teams win or make the playoffs ever but he’s incredible.  In fact so is Bowles

 

Extend both

[Smashmouth]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

It's possible that SOME take that position, but there is mounds of evidence to show a significant number of players don't refuse to negotiate early. Are we really supposed to believe that players league wide are willing to do this, but it just so happens not one single Jets player would ever consider it, so Mccagnan is just a poor innocent victim of it all? The argument isn't that he should've worked out early deals with every player, it's that he's done it for absolutely NONE in his entire time here, which is ridiculous. 

 

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Bigger difference to a person:  $700K to $3M or $3M to $6M?  When you are getting into the multi-millions much of that money is cake.  When you are dealing with a jump from a few hundred grand to the millions it makes a bigger difference in lifestyle and security.  The money comes sooner, as does the guarantee.  Anybody talking investments will tell you how much more a dollar today is worth than a dollar tomorrow. Especially when that dollar tomorrow isn't guaranteed.

All good points I guess its how the individual views the situation. I don't remember the Jets ever doing much of this (early Ext) for a long time not just under Macc maybe I just have not paid much attention to it.

[Sperm Edwards]

12 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Well in the case of Leo I think we let him walk. Hes not proven to be anything special and even if he has a good year leading up to FA I say we let him walk or trade him which wont bring much anyhow

Since it looks like Maccagnan will be back I think it’s a long shot, though it’s certainly possible.

Leo - for all the letdown he’s been - is still technically one of Maccagnan’s supposed successes. With all this cap room I’d be surprised if he didn’t toss another $14MM of cap space on the hopes he turns his career around for the better under a new HC.

Worst part about that? If it pans out just the way he wants then Leo will cost more than $14MM per season to extend because he’ll be a UFA after that: a young, former high 1st round pick, coming off a career year. He’ll be more expensive than Mo.

Which brings us back to my orignal point: if they were going to keep him anyway, which they were so long as Maccagnan’s here, then they should have done this in the spring as he was entering a $3MM season. 

[Larz]

What is the plan? Vision? Identity? 

What is he building? 

[Creepy Lurker]

21 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Agree.  We HAVE to trade Leo if anything just to stop Mac from giving him a $100 million extension 

This or we need someone supervising Mac if he is retained. He can’t make biased moves to try to save himsel/cover his *ss. Enough already. 

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What do all players want? They want the security of a long term deal. They all hate the franchise tag or the RFA tag. They all hate getting tagged because they all want long term deals with more guaranteed cash than they’ll make in just the upcoming season, just in case there are no more seasons beyond that. Many/most of them have families to think of as well. It’s easy for you to say because you’re not assuming that risk. Not so with the players.

Agents don’t push their clients to wait until next year either. If they do that then they’re risking the client leaving after having a competing agent whisper into their ear about how little they’re making and taking unnecessary risks with his lifetime of financial security. Or just as bad, the client gets badly injured and they end up with nothing (and words gets around that the agent effed up and can affect signing additional players).

It’s incredibly unsusual for a player to want to bet on himself to stay healthy year after year so he can max out. Typically the only player who does that is a player who’s already cashed in, or like I mentioned a player coming off a down season.

Case in point: Robby Anderson wants a long term deal right now, and 2019 is the first year he’s eligible for an extension. He’s coming off what’s easily his worst season. According to you he does not want an extension because he could/would/should make more if he waits a year.

I’m telling you, this is what the players want. You may not be so sure but I know it as well as I know I only have 23 chromosomes.

Yeah but in the case of Robbie he's declined and if the Jets don't extend him how much does Anderson with his decline and his off field problems make on the open market ? Robbie knows this and that's why in his particular situation he's asking for something now because he may very well go in the toilet. In that case Robbie is in a much different situation then lets say a Jenkins. I see  you're over all point but I think more players wait especially the higher end players.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Yeah but in the case of Robbie he's declined and if the Jets don't extend him how much does Anderson with his decline and his off field problems make on the open market ? Robbie knows this and that's why in his particular situation he's asking for something now because he may very well go in the toilet. In that case Robbie is in a much different situation then lets say a Jenkins. I see  you're over all point but I think more players wait especially the higher end players.

 

Why would he decline? He’s already said publicly within the past few weeks he wants an extension after this season. This is a player coming off a down season. He still wants it because he knows as soon as he gets badly injured he gets nothing. Especially Robby who, like Snacks, was an UDFA and has made nothing so far to date.

Robby Anderson does not want to play a year under the restricted free agent tender to get his dollars up. He wants a long term contract immediately. https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/11/jets-robby-anderson-restricted-free-agent

You may think more players wait, but you’d be wrong. And frankly the better the players are the faster they want to get paid because they have the most to lose (they have the most value to drop with a merely meh season). 

I understand where you’re coming from, but players do not think like that, and in a violent sport like football they’re right to think the way they do.

How many players sign big contracts and big contract extensions and don’t live up to it (and not because of laziness)? Plenty. Well had those players waited their extensions would be far less. You’re only looking at the upside of waiting is why you’re disagreeing. Most players most definitely do not wait. Not unless they’re playing for a GM who doesn’t want to extend them yet, like every Jets player ever under Maccagnan.

[Creepy Lurker]

11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Leo has always been kinda meh.  I’d rather trade him get another pick and sign Sheldon Richardson 

Sheldumb would probably gladly return after seeing that the grass isn’t greener and getting a reality check. D line can be had in FA without spending draft capital. They can also play too 32 NP. Lock him and Anderson up and get value for a young Leo.

Some 4-3 team (example the Browns) will take a chance on a young former top 10 pick that may have been misused. When you have extra picks to burn and cap space, you tend to take chances on players like Leo so I have hope that we move him. 

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Yeah but in the case of Robbie he's declined and if the Jets don't extend him how much does Anderson with his decline and his off field problems make on the open market ? Robbie knows this and that's why in his particular situation he's asking for something now because he may very well go in the toilet. In that case Robbie is in a much different situation then lets say a Jenkins. I see  you're over all point but I think more players wait especially the higher end players.

 

Robby is in his 3rd season you act like he’s 35

[Smashmouth]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Since it looks like Maccagnan will be back I think it’s a long shot, though it’s certainly possible.

Leo - for all the letdown he’s been - is still technically one of Maccagnan’s supposed successes. With all this cap room I’d be surprised if he didn’t toss another $14MM of cap space on the hopes he turns his career around for the better under a new HC.

Worst part about that? If it pans out just the way he wants then Leo will cost more than $14MM per season to extend because he’ll be a UFA after that: a young, former high 1st round pick, coming off a career year. He’ll be more expensive than Mo.

Which brings us back to my orignal point: if they were going to keep him anyway, which they were so long as Maccagnan’s here, then they should have done this in the spring as he was entering a $3MM season. 

this organization puts way too much value in a 3-4 defensive lineman anyhow. The premium picks should always be spent on 3-4 LB's ALWAYS..... you get 3 to 4 really good LB's and everybody looks good. We could have been drafting LB's all along rather than wasting picks on guys like Richardson and Williams so I'm not so worried about extending those types of guys because they certainly are not JJ Watts or Aaron Donalds not even in the same zipcode. 

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Robby is in his 3rd season you act like he’s 35

what ?

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Sheldumb would probably gladly return after seeing that the grass isn’t greener and getting a reality check. D line can be had in FA without spending draft capital. They can also play too 32 NP. Lock him and Anderson up and get value for a young Leo.

Some 4-3 team (example the Browns) will take a chance on a young former top 10 pick that may have been misused. When you have extra picks to burn and cap space, you tend to take chances on players like Leo so I have hope that we move him. 

I just don’t see Leo as being more than a glorified Devito.  His value is still high because he was a high draft pick and he has a reputation as a good teammate so we should trade him now while he still has value and before Macagnan doubles down on the Mo Wilk contract logic

[Smashmouth]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Why would he decline? He’s already said publicly within the past few weeks he wants an extension after this season.

Robby Anderson does not want to play a year under the restricted free agent tender to get his dollars up. He wants a long term contract immediately. https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/11/jets-robby-anderson-restricted-free-agent

You may think more players wait, but you’d be wrong. And frankly the better the players are the faster they want to get paid because they have the most to lose (they have the most value to drop with a merely meh season). 

I understand where you’re coming from, but players do not think like that, and in a violent sport like football they’re right to think the way they do.

How many players sign big contracts and big contract extensions and don’t live up to it (and not because of laziness)? Plenty. Well had those players waited their extensions would be far less. You’re only looking at the upside of waiting is why you’re disagreeing. Most players most definitely do not wait. Not unless they’re playing for a GM who doesn’t want to extend them yet, like every Jets player ever under Maccagnan.

Sperm I meant declined in his production when he said that he had 23 catches after mid season  of course he wants an extension. Plus hes playing on a garbage FA contract . In his case I agree with you he wants money now

 

[Creepy Lurker]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I just don’t see Leo as being more than a glorified Devito.  His value is still high because he was a high draft pick and he has a reputation as a good teammate so we should trade him now while he still has value and before Macagnan doubles down on the Mo Wilk contract logic

I wouldn’t say his value is high. It may be “salvageable” where we can get a 2nd or 3rd from a rebuilding team with lots of extra draft capital. Raiders, Browns maybe even the Colts since they have cap space and always need defensive help. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

this organization puts way too much value in a 3-4 defensive lineman anyhow. The premium picks should always be spent on 3-4 LB's ALWAYS..... you get 3 to 4 really good LB's and everybody looks good. We could have been drafting LB's all along rather than wasting picks on guys like Richardson and Williams so I'm not so worried about extending those types of guys because they certainly are not JJ Watts or Aaron Donalds not even in the same zipcode. 

No argument here, but the pick is done and made. 

Fact is if he has a bounce-back season, even if he’s not JJ Watt or Aaron Donald, his long term contract will be as enormous as he is. 

Look at the top salaries for the non-Watt/Donald/Cox/Atkins DTs. They’re still getting top dollar.

The reason you don’t choose them over an edge rusher - unless they really have the skills of those guys - is they so often get paid in FA (as in, they are available in free agency). Edge rushers and the truly unique-skilled big men? Not so much. Top 10 picks don’t get vet minimum contracts, and after the rookie contracts are over we still have to spend big to keep them anyway (see Mo’s situation).

That early in the draft, IMO you take truly unique players at high demand positions — the types who will never ever ever hit free agency, and who are so much better above the mean replacement that they are absolute must-have positions to fill. 

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No argument here, but the pick is done and made. 

Fact is if he has a bounce-back season, even if he’s not JJ Watt or Aaron Donald, his long term contract will be as enormous as he is. 

Look at the top salaries for the non-Watt/Donald/Cox/Atkins DTs. They’re still getting top dollar.

The reason you don’t choose them over an edge rusher - unless they really have the skills of those guys - is they so often get paid in FA (as in, they are available in free agency). Edge rushers and the truly unique-skilled big men? Not so much. Top 10 picks don’t get vet minimum contracts, and after the rookie contracts are over we still have to spend big to keep them anyway (see Mo’s situation).

That early in the draft, IMO you take truly unique players at high demand positions — the types who will never ever ever hit free agency, and who are so much better above the mean replacement that they are absolute must-have positions to fill. 

And in this case i say Bye Bye Leo

Funny people had Leo as the Number 1 pick OMFG 

[DetroitRed]

At least Mac has an excuse, swinging at QBs.  What Belichick's excuse??

[Smashmouth]

Just now, DetroitRed said:

At least Mac ha ab excuse, swinging at QBs.  What Belichick's excuse??

5 SB's

 

[DetroitRed]

Mac's has drafted better that the cheat since he's been here

[Smashmouth]

1 minute ago, DetroitRed said:

At least Mac ha ab excuse, swinging at QBs.  What Belichick's excuse??

Belichick knows he can plug players in and win. His system and schemes are second to none he is simply the best coach in the NFL. If he sign's a player and they don't buy in to what he's pushing out the door they go. 

[DetroitRed]

Just now, Smashmouth said:

Belichick knows he can plug players in and win. His system and schemes are second to none he is simply the best coach in the NFL. If he sign's a player and they don't buy in to what he's pushing out the door they go. 

What the hell does have to do with his horrific drafts?  SO he wants to draft bad since he can plug players? I don't get it?  He has been a dunce at drafting since 2014

[Bungaman]

On top of the FA stuff, let me remind the assembled here that his draft record is pretty bad. I was an early Mac supporter, now I am not. The cumulative record is too grim. I'm reposting something that might have come from another poster here (or somewhere else,) but I could not find the source. But it's pertinent:

 

"A recent study by overthecap.com revealed Maccagnan’s record in four drafts versus the rest of the league. Only 64.3 percent of players drafted by the Jets from 2015-2018 are still on an active NFL roster. The Titans are the only team with a lower percentage. The league average during that span is 76 percent. (On the other end of the spectrum, the Chiefs have a league-high 87 percent of their drafted players on an NFL roster).

A round-by-round breakdown reveals exactly how much Maccagnan has struggled in Rounds 2-5. Although all four of his first-round picks (including three in the Top 6 overall) are playing, the Jets have been far below the league average in each of the next four rounds.

Only 33 percent of Maccagnan’s second-rounders are on an NFL roster. The league average for second-rounders from 2015-18: 92 percent.

Only 50 percent of his third-rounders are on any active roster. The league average: 84 percent.

Only 50 percent of his fourth-rounders are on any active roster. The league average: 82 percent.

Only 50 percent of his fifth-rounders are on any active roster. The league average: 75 percent.

The Jets did, however, exceed the league averages with their sixth- and seventh-rounders."

 

My conclusion:

Maybe the guys from rounds 6 and 7 made the roster because the guys from rounds 2-5 did not ... stats are funny that way. NOT.

[southtown24th]

3 hours ago, Philc1 said:

If you’re a Patriots, Dolphins or Bills fan

OR if you are sick of the rotating door this franchise has built over the past 50 years...sick and tired of it...

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, southtown24th said:

OR if you are sick of the rotating door this franchise has built over the past 50 years...sick and tired of it...

This is ridiculous.  Tanenbaum was here 7 years.   Before that Bradway was 5. Parcells 4 (who then left voluntarily and wasn’t fired). Idzik got fired in 2 because he was obviously a clown, like Mike Macagnan should have been

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/19/2018 at 4:32 PM, More Cowbell said:

Ok, seriously, you need to learn to condense these responses. 

I could bring up more points about what i have written here but after this, i dont  see the point. I dont have the time or energy to retort something like this. 

Again, Mac is not being defended by me. Im just pointing out FA for the most part don't  work out and i don't  think its something tonuse to measure success. If you think it is, more power to you

You're not the first person to think so, lol.

I agree 100% with you that FA very often doesn't work out ("for the most part" is subject to individual opinion, plus would require a greater league-wide analysis than cherry-picking 1 from this team and 1 from that team). Therefore the glorious $100MM to spend all at once I think is never going to reach peoples' expectations, and therefore its value is overstated, especially with this failure shopping for the groceries.

The value in having cap flexibility is to be able to retain the players you most want to keep, and have enough to be choosy about a select 1 or 2 starting FAs let go by others to fill a couple glaring holes the team has. Most veteran contracts are for depth. So to suggest we're going to wisely buy half a team of starters with others' castoffs (as is the tone of those getting stiffies over the cap room) is wishful. Even if we had the cash to get every best one of those available - those who wouldn't fizzle out after 1 year, or be regretful pickups in year 1 - each good FA pickup would have to want to come here above all other teams. Last year the polar opposite occurred.

My OP was highlighting how Maccagnan has spent on veterans in the past, and was also speaking to his overall judgment. Both are decidedly poor, and IMO it's folly to expect a sudden improvement in judgment chiefly because Darnold unexpectedly fell to #3 after he whiffed on Cousins and after he passed on drafting 4 FQBs in 2016 and 2017.

[Ex-Rex]

On 12/19/2018 at 9:31 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

Because someone had the temerity to suggest Maccagnan has done a good job here - or even an acceptable one - page one of JetNation must be counterbalanced with another highlighting how awful he is and has been.

There's a well known expression, that gets repeated around here a lot, about the definition of insanity. Keeping a GM like Maccagnan makes me think of that. Another that comes to mind goes something like those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. Well plenty have brought up draft picks, particularly those drafted outside the top 6 overall (where a junior high school kid could credibly succeed if armed only with an internet connection) -- selections that range from the merely terrible to the outright humiliating. However Maccagnan is and has been the GM here, and not merely the head of college scouting, so let's see more of the non-draft GM'ing we can expect more of in the future by looking at the past...if you get an hour with nothing to do, lol:

 

Right away he set the stage to lose Damon Harrison instead of extending him while he had all the leverage. It's stupidity he's repeated to this day, and the only reason it isn't more obvious is he has signed so few players worth keeping that there's again a mountain of cap room. It's doubtful Snacks would have cost even $6MM per year as a RFA in the spring of 2015, when no one would fork over a 2nd rounder to pry him away from us (nor was there a leak anyone offered us anything at all for him, to see if we'd take a 4th rounder or something) -- not even after the draft, when a surrendered pick wouldn't come due until the following season. We had a mountain of cash to spend, and instead of using a mere $5MM-ish of it to reinvest in the DL's keystone, it myopically went on short-term older and bad veterans listed below.  So we lost him in 2016, after 1 more year of his consistently good play, and then spent $3.5 MM/year on Steve McLendon to replace him. This FA Master decided that the 30 year-old McLendon and ~$2MM/year savings was worth more than the 27 year-old Harrison. After the swap, the Jets' DL immediately fell apart and it hasn't been the same ever since. 

Where'd that mountain of cap money go instead?

David Harris at $7.5MM per with 2 years fully guaranteed. It was utterly ridiculous at the time to pay him like a top-5 ILB. He was slow 5 years earlier in his mid-20s when Alge Crumpler, who looked every bit of 300 pounds in his final NFL season, ran him down from behind (and from across the field) after a pick was thrown right at him in the playoffs. Solid player once upon a time, but at this time to hand him this contract was just foolishness. It foreshadowed what was to come from a GM who was in way over his head from the start.

Antonio Cromartie at $7MM for 2015 (and $8MM per beyond that if kept) was insane. It may have been only 1 year, but they paid him 2 years of his annual value in that 1 year. Arizona got him for half that in between his Jets years. Worse still, this stupidity was offered after already signing Revis and Skrine. Was Bowles the one who had Cro on his wish list? Undoubtedly. That doesn't mean you pay any price if you know better. Macc didn't know better. Bowles actually tried making excuses for Cro's terrible preseason, citing how he's a slow starter but it'll get better. It never did, and he was cut after just 1 year of paying him at the rate of a top 15 corner.

Darrelle Revis ended up as 2 years at a jaw-dropping $19.5MM per because Maccagnan guaranteed him some $10MM more than #2-bidder NE, after he already showed he wasn't the player he once was (and was never going to be again). But hey, he got to show off to his boss that he was the one who got Revis back. Revis showed him why even the 2nd-highest bid was so much lower. So we were treated to one pretty good season for $39MM.

Marcus Gilchrist at $5.5MM per. Cut after 2 years for sucking on the job. 

Buster Skrine at $6MM per. Since 2015 he has been every Jets fan's favorite player to rip on, and makes every Jets fan's list on whom to cut the following season. At least now he won't be on those lists because he'll be a FA. Get that? This is the shining example of a successful Maccagnan FA signing who played out the entire contract. 

Brandon Marshall at $9MM, but the reality to the story is he was given to us by a Bears team that wanted him not just gone, but gone specifically to the Jets so we wouldn't draft a "#1" WR in the slot ahead of them the following month. Any draft pick they got in return was gravy.

James Carpenter. At $5MM per season he looked like a brilliant pickup those first 2 seasons. Well he was the leftover starter remaining after other FA targets decided to sign with other teams, so it's not like Carpenter was the target. I think the top target was Boling (can't remember for sure), but he got extended last minute. Next target was Iupati, and after going full court press on him, the guard signed with Arizona instead. Carpenter was the leftover, and exceeded all expectations for '15 and '16 (if it was expected, Carpenter would have been the first choice at this price). But that ended abruptly in 2017, and we still kept him on for another lousy season in 2018 because Maccagnan brought in or drafted nobody else (again). If the drafts weren't so OL-barren maybe he could have been benched in mid-2017 and (appropriately) cut before 2018. Trapping himself into keeping this player for 2 substandard seasons at full pay badly tarnishes the original signing.

Quinton Coples. This one gets forgotten about, because we got lucky, but had Coples gotten injured before he got benched in 2015, the Jets would have been locked into paying him $7MM in 2016 because Maccagnan exercised his 5th year option. Coples was cooperative enough to play even worse, without getting badly injured, so he was able to get benched and then cut before he stubbed his toe in the locker room.

For all the money spent, there isn't a single totally-good pickup in the whole bunch, and the draft looks even worse with the benefit of hindsight. This should tell anyone how useless the NFL Executive of the Year award really is. Maccagnan's tenure unfortunately didn't end at the 2015 offseason, though:

Fitzpatrick the 2016 free agent was an extended, national embarrassment that made Maccagnan look like the enormous amateur he was and is: offering a contract no one else would consider matching, and leaving it out on the table for 5 months of refusal by the player. Then after he caved to Fitz and they agreed $12MM for the season - i.e. after they got some firsthand glimpses of Hackenberg on the practice field - Maccagnan childishly leaked to the media that Fitz had 24 hours to show up to sign it or the GM was rescinding the offer. What an insecure a-hole. Meanwhile if he'd simply cut ties with Fitz instead of offering a 3-year extension, someone else would have signed him. We'd have been rid of him, we'd have had another $12MM to play with, we could have moved on as a team, and as a bonus we would have been granted a compensatory pick for losing him on top of it all. Most of all it would have forced his hand to do the right thing and move up to #1 in the draft instead of staying pat while figuring Fitz was his ace in the hole, and fully piss away two NFL seasons in the process for nothing. A smart GM, if he was going to re-sign Fitz at all, makes a deal with him during the 2015 season not after it's over with Fitz then a UFA eyeing the latest year of salary inflation. Waiting too long on extensions is a pattern with Macc that continues to this day.

Breno Giacomini. The Jets had a bit of a cap problem after all Macc's early spending. Breno wasn't a Maccagnan acquisition, but by 2016 the guaranteed portion of his contract was comfortably behind us so he was year to year. He was far too injured to make the opening day roster, wasn't good even when 100% healthy, and instead of cutting him like he should have - or at least negotiating a large pay cut in exchange for a guaranteed roster spot - Maccagnan keeps him at full pay ($5MM; then still decent starter money for a RT).  What was the concern -- that there'd be a mad rush for teams to sign a badly-injured Breno off waivers at $5MM? Well after 7 weeks on the PUP list he returned to the 2-5 Jets. After just 5 starts he went on IR and rookie Shell filled in the rest of the way. Remember total wastes like this $5MM when the Jets could have signed this or that player for an extra million or two per season more than they offered.

Ryan Clady. This was a mess of Maccagnan's own making; he was not a victim of circumstance here. He did nothing with regards to the overpriced Brick while FAs (e.g. Okung) signed elsewhere. Then a week into April he suddenly gives Brick an ultimatum: take a 50% pay cut or get released. Brick refuses, which unnecessarily creates an hole at LT two weeks before the draft. To fix this he then trades away a mid-round pick for the unreliable Clady, who predictably gets injured, and after playing injured for over a month has to go on IR for the 2nd half of the season. Basically about $1MM per game for Clady; even more if you want to count only healthy games. A smart person would have just done nothing and wait to the draft (or at least wait through the first 3 rounds) instead of creating a crisis, or made sure he signed an available FA LT when he had the chance. Amazingly, after this failure injured half-season, this boob of a GM actually offered Clady another new contract to keep him for longer. As is the case with many of Maccagnan's best non-moves, the Jets were only saved by the player turning it down; in this case due to Clady thinking too highly of his own worth. No one else made him any offer at all, and he retired.

Brandon Marshall. After showing himself to be a (if not the) major source for major discord in the locker room in 2016, this doltish GM offered him an extension. Much like with FAs a year later, the offer was turned down because even Marshall didn't want to spend more time on teams Maccagnan was charged with assembling.

Jarvis Jenkins. This useless sack of crap was paid $3MM as a UFA to be a backup for half a season, in the same offseason we were due to lose a handful of qualifying UFAs. If Jenkins wasn't such an impossibly awful pickup, and they could justify keeping him for 1 full season, this pickup would have cost us a 3rd round compensatory pick. Read that again; that is exactly what Maccagnan the great FA picker-upper signed on for. A technicality that gave him a redo he never thought he'd need, plus Jenkins sufficiently demonstrating his full uselessness prior to week 10, allowed Maccagnan to be rescued from his own sub-moronic plan.

Matt Forte. A has-been who'd been on a steady decline for years. Maccagnan signed this north of 30 years old RB starter-money, guaranteed this starter money for 2 seasons, and as a cherry on top this pickup canceled out the mid-round compensatory pick we'd have been awarded for losing Chris Ivory to FA. After 2 generally poor seasons, Forte's going away present was lobbying to Bowles to fire the only Jets coach/coordinator who didn't call plays like he was trying to get the Jets some spots in NyQuil and Unisom commercials.

Bilal Powell. I've liked Powell better than most, I think, but as a GM you sign either Forte or you sign Powell, not both. Pick one veteran, then draft young players for this youngest-man's position. Locking himself into both of these guys for 2 years - plus the compensatory draft pick each cost - undoubtedly influenced undervaluing RB prospects' worth to the Jets when our picks were coming up. Instead of Kamara or Hunt (current news on the latter notwithstanding), the "value" move for Macc was trading down ...and drafting Ardarius Stewart.

When a GM surrenders a compensatory draft pick or fails to trade a player for a pick, it's the same as trading a pick itself instead of keeping it. He's choosing one over the other. Well in 2016 alone, Maccagnan was prepared to trade away 4 draft picks so he could sign/re-sign Jarvis Jenkins, Matt Forte, Bilal Powell, and Steve McLendon (I'd throw in Fitz in there but a team is limited to 4 compensatory picks in any one season; so swap him in place of any of the other 4 if you like). Think those draft picks weren't valuable? He did, and he spent half the ensuing 2017 draft trading down to get them all back, and in doing so drafted inferior prospects. He really stinks at this.

Muhammad Wilkerson. Another embarrassment. Macc could have extended Mo in 2015 when his price tag was likely in the $10MM/year range. He didn't, because he wanted to trade him instead. Fair enough, but he was and is so bad at this: his asking price of a 1st & more was beyond what anyone would pay. Then a year later in 2016 - after Mo's 12 sack season - he repeats the same exact mistake, seeking a 1st rounder yet again, which of course still no one would pay. Then the 2016 draft comes, and he's miraculously offered a rescue parachute that would cleanly solve all of his biggest problems at once: trade up to #1 and draft a franchise QB. It would have made his then-embarrassing Fitz debacle go away; would have made the Mo holdout and non-negotiation go away; and would have solved the little problem of getting a great young QB in his 2nd year on the job. It would also have saved him from the embarrassment of a QB he did draft. Maccagnan passes up on it all because he felt an extra 3rd rounder made the price too steep. He instead passes up on Goff (or Wentz) at #1 and stays where we were at #20: he drafts Lee, drafts Hackenberg, signs Fitz for $12MM, and then to make room for Fitz he signs Mo to a $17MM/year contract that ended up being $37MM for 2 years (and no draft pick) -- for a player he wanted to trade away in the first place. And as though all that wasn't enough, we find out later that Maccagnan knew of Mo's lazy tendencies beforehand.

Sheldon Richardson. While people are fast to point to the Seahawks rescuing Maccagnan from his own stupidity, let's examine. He had Sheldon, Mo, and had just exercised the 5th year option for Coples when he drafted Leonard Williams with the 6th overall pick. Coples aside, since he was still standing up at OLB, it's still one too many: nobody runs a 4-man line with no edge rushers on it; it's just too slow regardless of the individual talent. Moving Sheldon around (including at LB) gets poked fun at by fans, but he was too good to keep on the sideline and it was an effort to get all his best players on the field and Sheldon was easily the most athletically versatile among them (especially in 2016 after Coples was long gone). The solution was to move at least one of them then - either right after drafting Leo, or at the latest after that 2015 season - while both Mo and Sheldon had higher trade value. Instead all 3 were kept for two full seasons. The 2nd rounder for Sheldon of course carried the trade value of a late 3rd rounder, since the pick didn't come until the following season. That's the calculation Seattle made, and saved Maccagnan from his stupid self because his phone wasn't ringing off the hook despite everyone knowing he wanted to move Sheldon. For all the fan cooing over that transaction, we should have already had our FQB before May of 2016, using either Mo or Sheldon to move up to #1, with that opportunity offered on a silver platter. Instead we went with keeping Leo and Mo and Sheldon, drafting Christian Hackenberg, and then bringing back Fitzpatrick (followed by McCown after him). This is the domino effect of not making a move when the opportunity is there, with multiple NFL seasons unnecessarily wasted, as the byproduct of Maccagnan's ineptitude.

Ben Ijalana. Though this 2017 FA signing seems insignificant amid some of these whoppers, it should be noted that even after seeing up close what little he brought, and after signing Beachum to a 3-year deal, Maccagnan then signed Ijalana for nearly $6MM for that same 2017 season (eventually declining the following year option at ~$5MM). What this did was effectively make a meh but not unreasonable Beachum UFA signing at $8MM per in actuality a $14MM signing for the Beachum-Ijalana duo at left tackle. For 2017 the Jets spent as much on that Beachum-Ijalana duo as any other NFL team spent for its left tackle starter+backup combo. This was in a planned tank offseason, no less; if Beachum was bad again what would have been the harm? It's not like Ijalana is the cure to left tackle ills anyway.

Brian Winters. Entering 2016 Winters was a $3-4MM guard: a marginal starter drafted somewhat recently, with some potential. Winters did a fine job when Colon went on IR, but his play before that was spotty to say the least. Maccagnan has it leaked out he was going to make a play for Osemele in FA. If the Jets did sign Osemele then Winters would lose his starting job and spend the final season of his rookie contract as a backup. That was the time a good GM locks up his young guard. Maccagnan doesn't. And he doesn't sign Osemele either, because the Raiders offer him like $12MM - left tackle money at the time - and Maccagnan had already blown too much cap room in 2015 to afford that (especially with Fitz and Mo situations lingering). So he waits until another full season goes by, and after painting himself into a corner is forced to fork over an $8MM/year deal for a guard he could have had for about half that in 2016 (certainly for no more than Carpenter got a year earlier as a full UFA with a former 1st round pedigree). The reasons this doesn't look so bad? First is the other 4 offensive linemen - the ones that Maccagnan actually brought in himself - are all worse players than Winters. Second is the massive amount of cap room because the team has so few of Macc's picks & pickups worth extending/keeping.

Trumaine Johnson. Looks like the latest in a long line of FAs who don't come close to living up to the price paid, using the Jets for their final cash-ins before mailing in their careers.  I never saw a player tweak his quad a little in practice and then miss a month (or rather, I hadn't until this season). Turning 30 at the close of the 2019 season, he was always going to be in danger of getting cut after the 2 year guaranteed portion of his FA contract ran out. Therefore it was in his interest to just go after the largest guarantee, no matter where that was, and structure it with a purposely-lower year 3 amount to entice the team to keep him for the first of the non-guaranteed seasons. Basically unlike the other ultra-high dollar FAs who turned us down, he didn't have their concerns about cutting their careers short by choosing the wrong team in 2018, losing perhaps tens of millions in the process. 

Spencer Long. Of all the things Maccagnan knew he was doing in March or April of 2018, it was getting his franchise QB. Whether that was his first preference for signing Kirk Cousins for an all-guaranteed $90MM/3 deal, or signing on to willingly accept the leftover 3rd-best QB in the draft, one of those two scenarios was definitely happening. Though the 2017 OL was again lousy, and yet again put a starting QB on IR, the entire net sum of OL improvement Maccagnan made in FA and the draft combined? He upgraded from his previous season's pick at center - a healthy but lousy Wesley Johnson - at $2.7MM to a lousy center with injury concerns at $7MM, whose latest injury made snapping the ball an unpredictable adventure for the QB. Long is guaranteed $3MM of his $6.5MM for 2019 if he's on the roster the 3rd day after the superbowl, so the Jets must make a decision on him before they can talk to any FAs (never mind before the draft). That's some ace contract structuring there, folks. So glad now he's in charge of contract structuring instead of Davidson.

--

In the 2018 offseason, agents for NFL FAs used this boob, as we saw players turn him down like we've never seen before in the NFL's free agency era. Literally 5 high-priced FAs told our just-recently extended GM to piss off after using him to up their dollars elsewhere. Despite the cap-flush Jets being the high bidder they chose other teams, rather than play on and risk their names and careers playing alongside the garbage roster Maccagnan had assembled to date. In his 4th season Jets under his watch were quite simply an unattractive destination for those with options. 

None of this gets into the FAs and trades that we didn't make over the last 4 years (e.g. moving up to #1 in 2016) when the opportunities were there. Instead we were repeatedly treated to "The Jets also inquired" in lieu of actual results, or going into a season with emergency/backup plans serving as planned starters without any credible competition (e.g. Wesley Johnson). This ineptitude in acquiring veterans should hardly come as surprising: in his 4th offseason the Maccagnan front office was rated by dozens of NFL agents as being in the bottom 5 worst-prepared in contract negotiations. 

This is an embarrassing body of work without even addressing the piss poor draft record (particularly outside the top 6 overall picks, where successful teams annually find themselves), or his willingness to part with draft picks for the likes of Forte, McLendon, Jarvis Jenkins, Rashard Robinson, Zac Stacy, Clady, and more. There are 2-3 of the above player failures that individually should be fireable offenses just by themselves. Taking all of them and more collectively, it's ridiculous that he should still be employed, let alone extended further, unless it's just to prevent Macc's successful successor from being hired without Woody Johnson in charge of the process.

It's hard to imagine the best possible HC candidates look at all of this and say, "Yep, I want to hitch my career to the players Mike Maccagnan brings in for me." Maybe they just don't know about all of this, or maybe that's what we have to pray for. But it's harder still to imagine, after 3 consecutive seasons (and counting) of Maccagnan rosters earning top-6 draft picks, that a few Jets fans to actually want more of this trash. One doesn't just say "Sam Darnold" after passing on 4 successful franchise QBs available to him in the prior 2 drafts, as though success despite ineptitude (i.e. luck) is the likely expectation going forward rather than the enormity of the messes above and even more from the non-top-6 draft picks. 

Maybe the thought is this: all the Jets need to build a winner is another decade of regular season ineptitude, so Maccagnan can accumulate 10 more top-6 overall draft picks.

Not to mention that the Jets have one of the worst corps of WR's in the league despite drafting no less than seven of them with NONE panning out. Right now the Jets have Enunwa - who is an injury waiting to happen - Kearse, who seems to want to play his way OUT of NY and Anderson who is a gigantic question mark. Beyond them we have two special teamers who figure to have little impact.

[#27TheDominator]

No less than SEVEN, four, what's the difference?

[southparkcpa]

43 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Not to mention that the Jets have one of the worst corps of WR's in the league despite drafting no less than seven of them with NONE panning out. Right now the Jets have Enunwa - who is an injury waiting to happen - Kearse, who seems to want to play his way OUT of NY and Anderson who is a gigantic question mark. Beyond them we have two special teamers who figure to have little impact.

Thanks!!  Just ruined my friggin Christmas!!!!

[Bleedin Green]

14 hours ago, Bungaman said:

On top of the FA stuff, let me remind the assembled here that his draft record is pretty bad. I was an early Mac supporter, now I am not. The cumulative record is too grim. I'm reposting something that might have come from another poster here (or somewhere else,) but I could not find the source. But it's pertinent:

 

"A recent study by overthecap.com revealed Maccagnan’s record in four drafts versus the rest of the league. Only 64.3 percent of players drafted by the Jets from 2015-2018 are still on an active NFL roster. The Titans are the only team with a lower percentage. The league average during that span is 76 percent. (On the other end of the spectrum, the Chiefs have a league-high 87 percent of their drafted players on an NFL roster).

A round-by-round breakdown reveals exactly how much Maccagnan has struggled in Rounds 2-5. Although all four of his first-round picks (including three in the Top 6 overall) are playing, the Jets have been far below the league average in each of the next four rounds.

Only 33 percent of Maccagnan’s second-rounders are on an NFL roster. The league average for second-rounders from 2015-18: 92 percent.

Only 50 percent of his third-rounders are on any active roster. The league average: 84 percent.

Only 50 percent of his fourth-rounders are on any active roster. The league average: 82 percent.

Only 50 percent of his fifth-rounders are on any active roster. The league average: 75 percent.

The Jets did, however, exceed the league averages with their sixth- and seventh-rounders."

 

My conclusion:

Maybe the guys from rounds 6 and 7 made the roster because the guys from rounds 2-5 did not ... stats are funny that way. NOT.

The funny thing is, the more you look at, there's an even more to the story of those "successful" sixth and seventh rounds.  For starters, both rounds saw no picks in 2 of Maccagnan's 4 drafts, so of course you can't have a player out of the league when you simply didn't pick one.  It's more meaningful for the 6th round, as his picks were only in the last two, so that means the picks he has made in that round haven't even been here that long.  It includes players who have simply not played at all (Clark, Jones, Fatukasi), or are 3rd / 4th stringers, playing only due to injuries (McGuire, Cannon).  So that advantage could be short-lived.

The 7th round is actually the opposite, with picks only having been made in the first 2 years, so I certainly won't have it be a negative that they're all still in the league.  Granted, the players gotten there are solely special teams (Edwards, Peake), and a practice squader for another team (Simon), but that's fine for the 7th.

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

No less than SEVEN, four, what's the difference?

Wait I know this one. It's three, right?

[Bleedin Green]

34 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

No less than SEVEN, four, what's the difference?

You must have forgotten that the GM incompetencies of two have now merged into the one evil Maccagzik.

[Irish Jet]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Wait I know this one. It's three, right?

Wrong.

It’s that one was in caps.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Bleedin Green said:

The funny thing is, the more you look at, there's an even more to the story of those "successful" sixth and seventh rounds.  For starters, both rounds saw no picks in 2 of Maccagnan's 4 drafts, so of course you can't have a player out of the league when you simply didn't pick one.  It's more meaningful for the 6th round, as his picks were only in the last two, so that means the picks he has made in that round haven't even been here that long.  It includes players who have simply not played at all (Clark, Jones, Fatukasi), or are 3rd / 4th stringers, playing only due to injuries (McGuire, Cannon).  So that advantage could be short-lived.

The 7th round is actually the opposite, with picks only having been made in the first 2 years, so I certainly won't have it be a negative that they're all still in the league.  Granted, the players gotten there are solely special teams (Edwards, Peake), and a practice squader for another team (Simon), but that's fine for the 7th.

This.

Mauldin was on the roster for his first 2 seasons, even starting a few games in year 2. Then he wasn't. OK then he got injured, which kept him around for another year without getting cut. Then he wasn't. Is he a good pick? He was on the roster heading into the offseason in his 4th year!

Idzik's crappola draft had guys lasting at least 2 years, too. Doesn't make them good picks: IK, Reilly, Dixon, Oboushi, Bohanon. If they're starting then their presence is more significant. Even more so if they're starting because they're good not merely because the cupboard is so bare.

Agree, though, that sticking around on special teams for 4 seasons is typically plenty successful for 7th round picks. Not as successful as an actual starter, or even rotational depth players who actually see the field on offense/defense, but it's fine. A wise man once said The world needs ditch diggers, too. 

[Dcat]

What is it inside of Woody Johnson's brain that makes him think Maccagnan doesn't suck?  When virtually everything screams total incompetence, the thought that Woody might give him more power is both frightening and sickening.

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

What is it inside of Woody Johnson's brain that makes him think Maccagnan doesn't suck?  When virtually everything screams total incompetence, the thought that Woody might give him more power is both frightening and sickening.

Woody Johnson has no clue and Chris less of a clue. 

SELL THE TEAM WOODY.