Tank crowd

[HessStation]

When it doesn’t really matter, I’m a tank advocate for higher draft position, BUT this is an opportunity to knock Pats out of the bye. So go Jets!

[GREENBEAN]

Consistency is only a virtue if you have the right people in the right jobs.
I would contend that the empirical evidence to-date would show that Macc is not the right people upon which to base organizational consistency.
Consistency of mediocrity is not what we're looking to achieve, and I've seen very little from Macc to indicate he is "gowing" in the way you appear to believe is possible.  His picks and moves now and in-line and equally obvious or ineffective as they were when he first started.  We are worse today, four years in, that the day Macc took over.  For a rebuild, Macc has failed utterly to improve the overall talent level and competitiveness of this franchise.
I agree with your premise, consistency is something we lack, and that hurts us.  But the solution is not consistency under poor leadership, the solution is to hire more experienced men qualified in their jobs with track records of some success/potential, that we can then build around.

Fair points. I don’t disagree with much of what you said and why. I think where we separate is macc’s progression, or lack of progression. However you see it.

When you hire a first time gm there has to be allowances for certain growing pains and mistakes. Like it or kit it’s true.
As long as you see growth. We both know all of the examples on both sides of the argument so I won’t go into them here. I’ll simply say that from my point of view, and I’m not a troll who likes to argue for the sake of it, it would be more damaging to gut the org and start over. I feel this way for two reasons.
The first is that I don’t see too many people who are a slam dunk to come in like a rock star. Most if not All of the potential names are first timers at the position. I’d hate to start over and have to watch a new guy pick his Hackenberg.
Macc is past that shlt.

Second is that I see Bowles as a major problem. Not just a failure at coaching during games. It’s the entire plan. No development and no proper usage. Players like an adams are working in spite of Bowles. Average role players fail on teams like that. Star players are average.

I could be wrong on my assessment of Bowles and the damage he has caused to any potential macc could have, but I don’t think I am.
That being said, I see clearly the arguments from the other side and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t vacillate from time to time. Some of the points made are pretty good.

I just see it how I see it. Ya know?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[RutgersJetFan]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You’re aware that the higher draft pick occurs in rounds other than the first, yes? 

I'm normally of this mindset when it comes to tanking, but two counterpoints:

1. This is most important for the second rounder, because the high second rounder is essentially just a late first rounder when it's high enough. We don't have our second rounder. Building on that, a few draft slots in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds doesn't mean much, and it's almost meaningless in the 6th and 7th.

2. A solid performance against the Pats this week likely puts Darnold in the positive for the season with respect to FO numbers. Which would be huge from a predictive standpoint. And isn't it more beneficial to have him end the season playing well in a win against the Patriots? I think so. That's gotta be worth a ton going into the Spring for him.

 

[Beerfish]

Tank to trade down that is the point,  Also there is often an unexpected slide.  Bosa at 3

[jgb]

Nfl players and coaches do not tank especially ones on hot seat 

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I'm normally of this mindset when it comes to tanking, but two counterpoints:

1. This is most important for the second rounder, because the high second rounder is essentially just a late first rounder when it's high enough. We don't have our second rounder. Building on that, a few draft slots in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds doesn't mean much, and it's almost meaningless in the 6th and 7th.

2. A solid performance against the Pats this week likely puts Darnold in the positive for the season with respect to FO numbers. Which would be huge from a predictive standpoint. And isn't it more beneficial to have him end the season playing well in a win against the Patriots? I think so. That's gotta be worth a ton going into the Spring for him.

 

I’m gonna be real. I didn’t even know if that was true or significant when I typed it. I just woke up and wanted to throw down some message board douchiness right off the bat.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m gonna be real. I didn’t even know if that was true or significant when I typed it. I just woke up and wanted to throw down some message board douchiness right off the bat.

Having you at Christmas dinner sounds like a setup for a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode

[Carnival Barker]

Last year was the year to tank when there was such a strong QB class.  If we did we'd have our 2nd's to use to build around Darnold.

I'll be more than happy with Darnold playing great and for Bowles to show his incompetence once again, costing us the game.  But I'm not going to actively root for the Jets to lose this game, not in this situation.  Especially when we already have the most important piece of the puzzle, the piece that you actually do tank for in the first place.

[RobR]

11 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You’re aware that the higher draft pick occurs in rounds other than the first, yes? 

It's amazing how many posters here don't even realize that. To them tanking only counts in the first round.

There's nothing like keying in on a Rb, WR, or Olineman in the third round and watch them get snatched up one or two picks earlier. But heah, we beat the Pats in a meaningless game in a season where they are going nowhere.

I wish more people would care about the Jets long term success rather than knocking the Pats down one seed. Some people care more about beating the Pats in another meaningless game than what is better for the Jets going forward. The whole forest through the trees argument.

[RobR]

7 hours ago, flgreen said:

Last year I wanted to tank by playing Hack.  

Was afraid of getting stuck with Rosen or Jackson.  If they had they probably would still have 3 2's to put around Darnold.

This year out side of Bosa, there really isn't any one I would give up a win for, and feeling good about Darnold's last game of the season, so I hope the Jets blast the Pats.  (Probably won't happen Lil Bill is murder on rookie QB's)

If they do win, might be a long term good thing, might go with either Williams or  Little at 5 with out all the hate Macc "reach"  drama.  

Nah, LOL, even if the Jets somehow get Bosa there will be Hate Macc drama 

If we pick Little in the first round I will officially lose it. He's not very good.

[GreenFish]

If we get the number 1 pick, get Bosa. We will have a top talent at 2 of the 4 most important positions. If we are 2 or 3 trade back. 

Not sure how trading back is not a viable reason. Even if we don’t trade back and you want to go offense, just draft the guy you wanted to draft at 7. If tanking doesn’t matter, than reaching for a guy shouldn’t matter.

[joenamathwouldn'tcry]

10 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Good post.
While a lot of your points are accurate, the main reason the Steelers are the best org in the nfl is consistency. They don’t fire people every time the wind blows in the opposite direction.
The problem with teams like the jets and browns is we hire first timers in high level positions and rarely allow for growth. We cut and run only to start over again with another group of first timers.
Macc falls into this category.

I will be delighted when we retain his services and watch him continue to grow into his position with a coach he actually wants. Not someone who needs a batch of very specific types of players to succeed, then can’t develop them or put them in proper positions to succeed.

I’m no macc lover but I am a lover of consistency. That’s what allows systems to prosper. Not the cries that 2/3 of the threads on this board are polluted with.
Macc has been on a solid path of improvement and is quite obviously getting better.
Consistency consistency consistency.

Teams like the Steelers are owned by "Football People".  We are owned by "Q-tip People"

[KINGDIRK]

10 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Jets lose 31-28 with Darnold playing well is the perfect ending to this season.  Anyone who cant see that is a dolt.

Spot on. Darnold playing well is the most important thing. Given where we are this season a win doesn’t matter. Anyone who disagrees just doesn’t get it. 

[KINGDIRK]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

If we get the number 1 pick, get Bosa. We will have a top talent at 2 of the 4 most important positions. If we are 2 or 3 trade back. 

Not sure how trading back is not a viable reason. Even if we don’t trade back and you want to go offense, just draft the guy you wanted to draft at 7. If tanking doesn’t matter, than reaching for a guy shouldn’t matter.

I’ll buy this notion. Imagine our Jets having elite QB prospect and elite DE prospect in back to back years? Lol. That sounds like a joke to me. 

Unfortunately after we lose this weekend here’s what cost us Nick Bosa.

A 4th and goal stretch hand off a couple of weeks ago. If we get stopped at the goaline there we lose and end up with number one pick via SOS.

Oh well, at least we won that game. Right?

 

[BikerTed]

Beat the Pats, give Tommy boy a taste of what's comin. New sheriff in town!

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

If we get the number 1 pick, get Bosa. We will have a top talent at 2 of the 4 most important positions. If we are 2 or 3 trade back. 

Not sure how trading back is not a viable reason. Even if we don’t trade back and you want to go offense, just draft the guy you wanted to draft at 7. If tanking doesn’t matter, than reaching for a guy shouldn’t matter.

What a delightfully interesting take. I always loved how stuck people get with the value stuff. I get of course, but come on. If I like a OL at 7 but sit at 3 I take him if I can't get back a few spots. 

[Dcat]

42 minutes ago, BikerTed said:

Beat the Pats, give Tommy boy a taste of what's comin. New sheriff in town!

^This.  It may not be founded in sound logic, but I'd rather the Jets knock the Patriots out of a cushy Bye-Week this Sunday.  The little bit of gratification that would provide me is worth it.

[Gastineau Lives]

23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

QB...it's pretty much the only thing that matters.

Which is why tanking is almost pointless for the Jets right now.  

Darnold getting wins under his belt is more valuable that 2 or 3 draft places.  This week especially, getting his first win against the Pats is a huge stepping stone for him - great for the offseason to know he's taken that step.

This is what is called voodoo.

God, I pray he wins! His whole career is at stake!

[Gastineau Lives]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

Nfl players and coaches do not tank especially ones on hot seat 

Some do it accidentally. The accident starting at birth.

[Gastineau Lives]

22 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Darnold getting a win over the Pats is more important than one spot in the draft order.

While I can appreciate your opinion - I'm certainly not a "dolt" for thinking our young QB getting a win over a team he'll have to play twice a year and the most dominant team in the history of the NFL is more important for his confidence going into the offseason than 1 or 2 spots on in a draft that has no guarantees and, by most accounts, no elite offensive talent.

Oh Sam's confidence is at stake. I did not know that. Well, then ****, yeah. Go get them Patsies. We have a fragile kids life on the line heah!!

You think him (er, the Jets?) beating the Patriots is going to shroud him in some magic mist that's going to carry over into the rest of his career. 

[Warfish]

14 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Fair points. I don’t disagree with much of what you said and why. I think where we separate is macc’s progression, or lack of progression. However you see it.

When you hire a first time gm there has to be allowances for certain growing pains and mistakes. Like it or kit it’s true.
As long as you see growth. We both know all of the examples on both sides of the argument so I won’t go into them here. I’ll simply say that from my point of view, and I’m not a troll who likes to argue for the sake of it, it would be more damaging to gut the org and start over. I feel this way for two reasons.
The first is that I don’t see too many people who are a slam dunk to come in like a rock star. Most if not All of the potential names are first timers at the position. I’d hate to start over and have to watch a new guy pick his Hackenberg.
Macc is past that shlt.

Second is that I see Bowles as a major problem. Not just a failure at coaching during games. It’s the entire plan. No development and no proper usage. Players like an adams are working in spite of Bowles. Average role players fail on teams like that. Star players are average.

I could be wrong on my assessment of Bowles and the damage he has caused to any potential macc could have, but I don’t think I am.
That being said, I see clearly the arguments from the other side and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t vacillate from time to time. Some of the points made are pretty good.

I just see it how I see it. Ya know?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Understood. 

I think we simply disagree on Macc, his growth (I basically don't see any so far) and his potential (I see very little upward potential based on his actions to-date).  Obviously, if you see growth and potential, you would disagree on his retention on those grounds.

While e agree on Bowles (he's bad) and the organizational structure (Coach reporting directly to ownership is dumb), I don't believe that frees Macc of his responsibility for the horrid state of talent on this team after four full years of his control.

As I see it, any new GM/Coach gets about four years.  If they show they are worth of being the consistency we can build around, then they get another four years.  If not, we make the change and try again.  I do not believe either Macc or Bowles work to-date over four years has earned that additional time.  Macc's best moves were all so blindingly obvious, any person on this board could have made them.  His other moves have almost to the man be failures. 

I don't give him points for having alot of cap space or for making all those many short-term deals, they've almost all been failure moves, and now we're sitting on more cap than we rightfully spent of worthy talent this offseason.  Almost assuredly Macc is going to spend big $$ on players not worth it, in an attempt to right the ship and save his ass.  So instead of now, where we're talentless but wealthy, if we retain macc we're almost assuredly going to be talentless and cap poor by the end of his tenure.

TLDR:  I simply have no faith in Macc as a GM, Maccd hiring a new Head Coach, or Macc's leadership of the organizations development.

I too desperately want stability and consistency.  But the foundation, the GM, must be right above all else.  I don't see Macc as that guy, as a Ron Wolf or Charlie Casserly type we can truly put our faith in for the long term.

[Boynton Beach Jets]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:33 AM, bealeb319 said:

 

I've been seeing lots of posts and comments about how people are hoping the jets lose out for a better draft pick and what I want to know is who in this draft is worth tanking for. I will beat some of you to the punch here because trade down is not a valid answer for tanking this year, guess what if there are no star prospects that you think the jets should stay at that pick for than other teams probably feel that way as well.

 

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

 

When you need the QB it could be worth tanking.  It looks like we finally filled that 50 year hole.  That said Haskins value has increased by Herbert announcing he is staying in school, this may force a QB needy team to trade up.  I just want to see the Jets take the best available  olineman, Jonah Williams is my favorite pick for the Jets

[JetFaninMI]

Never in all my years supporting this team have I or will I ever root for them to lose. Never have, never will. I don't think those who do so are lesser fans it's just not my thing. I don't think anyone has the right to call out those who do either. To each his own.

I am in favor of them trading down simply to get a 2nd rounder back though. You can never have enough picks IMO and I am all for that. 

[playtowinthegame]

Bottom line Jets aren't beating the Patriots this Sunday no matter which side of the fence you are on. All you can root for is Darnold playing well and not getting injured. It's those other games that will effect the SOS that I'll be watching and rooting for their outcomes to push the Jets past the 49ers into the 2nd overall pick. I want the higher pick after suffering through a 4 win season.

[GREENBEAN]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Understood. 

I think we simply disagree on Macc, his growth (I basically don't see any so far) and his potential (I see very little upward potential based on his actions to-date).  Obviously, if you see growth and potential, you would disagree on his retention on those grounds.

While e agree on Bowles (he's bad) and the organizational structure (Coach reporting directly to ownership is dumb), I don't believe that frees Macc of his responsibility for the horrid state of talent on this team after four full years of his control.

As I see it, any new GM/Coach gets about four years.  If they show they are worth of being the consistency we can build around, then they get another four years.  If not, we make the change and try again.  I do not believe either Macc or Bowles work to-date over four years has earned that additional time.  Macc's best moves were all so blindingly obvious, any person on this board could have made them.  His other moves have almost to the man be failures. 

I don't give him points for having alot of cap space or for making all those many short-term deals, they've almost all been failure moves, and now we're sitting on more cap than we rightfully spent of worthy talent this offseason.  Almost assuredly Macc is going to spend big $$ on players not worth it, in an attempt to right the ship and save his ass.  So instead of now, where we're talentless but wealthy, if we retain macc we're almost assuredly going to be talentless and cap poor by the end of his tenure.

TLDR:  I simply have no faith in Macc as a GM, Maccd hiring a new Head Coach, or Macc's leadership of the organizations development.

I too desperately want stability and consistency.  But the foundation, the GM, must be right above all else.  I don't see Macc as that guy, as a Ron Wolf or Charlie Casserly type we can truly put our faith in for the long term.

Fair enough.  I see your point and appreciate your overall lack of faith. 

I look to Macc's most recent draft as some of the foundation of his growth. Once again, I do not have the best grasp of some of the guys he left on the board to take the guys he did, but we have most of the picks contributing this year. He has also done well in UDFA crop with Anderson, Luvu and some others. That percentage list that came out earlier this week about how many starters come from each round was enlightening. Turns out UDFA's make up more of the actual NFL roster than all but the first and second rounds. We've done well in that area. 

 It's tough because the GM HC reporting structure is downright silly. It really does point to Bowles having more say in the player selection than would normally be the case.  I would like to think we change that when Bowles is fired in a few days. But who knows? It would be nice to see (for me) Macc be able to pick his coach and work toward a winner with someone who is on the same page and can't go to upper Mgmt if they disagree or want specific players over the scouting dept.  etc. 

I'll point out that if Macc is fired, the Jets will have had two consecutive GM's that were not allowed to hire their own coach. Add that the player development has been non existent and you have a recipe for failure for any GM. I'll also reiterate that Macc was in the position for the first time for whatever that's worth. He was tasked with trying to build an immediate winner with the Forte, Fitz, Revis, Cro Marshall plan. I am one am also buying into the idea that the first two years were an entirely different game plan than the last two so there's that. One who considers that a fact would be more inclined to lean how I do. 

Let me ask you this. Knowing that the last two GM's have not been able to hire a coach nor have they been higher on the food chain than the last two coaches, who do you think is going to want to come here and would be better than Macc? Who is it that we have on deck that wouldn't be another crap shoot? As you and I both agree, consistency has high value. Where does that reside when comparing to the new Gm that we would want to replace him? 

[ChuckkieB]

On 12/26/2018 at 9:27 AM, GREENBEAN said:

I will be delighted when we retain his services and watch him continue to grow into his position with a coach he actually wants. 
 

This is a big problem for me.  The NFL is a win now league.  A smart GM can turn around an organization fairly quickly.  There is no time in the NFL for a GM to "grow into his position."  The Jets need to hire established football people with who can hit the ground running and not waste multiple years until they figure it out.  

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

It's tough because the GM HC reporting structure is downright silly......I'll point out that if Macc is fired, the Jets will have had two consecutive GM's that were not allowed to hire their own coach.

I completely agree, the organizational structure of the NY Jets is pants-on-head dumb.  I argued early on that Macc should not be saddled with a guy who wasn't his choice.  But since then, Macc has shown he cannot do the core job of a GM, identifying and selecting talent (IMO) in both FA and the Draft.

Quote

I am one am also buying into the idea that the first two years were an entirely different game plan than the last two so there's that. One who considers that a fact would be more inclined to lean how I do. 

I am not a fan of giving Macc an out for years 1 and 2 because he (as GM) tried to win now vs. planning forthe future.  End of the day, that was his call to do.  It's failure is also on him (as was the mismanagement that helped cause it i.e. Fitz)

Quote

Let me ask you this. Knowing that the last two GM's have not been able to hire a coach nor have they been higher on the food chain than the last two coaches, who do you think is going to want to come here and would be better than Macc?

It's a challenge, no doubt.  We must do it right, and select the GM first, then let the GM select the Coach.

With that said, I believe what WILL happen is Macc WILL be retained, and he will get to help select the next Coach, but the organization will retain the split-authority as we have it now.  Because we are duuuuuumb.  The worst outcome possible.

Quote

Who is it that we have on deck that wouldn't be another crap shoot? As you and I both agree, consistency has high value. Where does that reside when comparing to the new Gm that we would want to replace him? 

?

If I had all the answers, I'd be the GM Myself. 

 

Sadly, I think we'll both be back here in a few years, lamenting another couple of wasted years 9and wasted Darnold years at that) under Macc, while pondering who the next GM and Head Coach will be.....

[FidelioJet]

5 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Oh Sam's confidence is at stake. I did not know that. Well, then ****, yeah. Go get them Patsies. We have a fragile kids life on the line heah!!

You think him (er, the Jets?) beating the Patriots is going to shroud him in some magic mist that's going to carry over into the rest of his career. 

Of course it matters.  Confidence is everything at that position.  It's important going into the off-season feeling good, feeling confident the next time he plays them, knowing he can beat them.  

there's no magic but it helps.  

I would say it helps more than picking up one spot in the draft that may or may not actually be a good player -

Does that one extra place in the draft magically ensure you draft a hall-of-famer?   Is the team going to mysteriously be guaranteed to be better because they drafted at 3 rather than 4?

 

Nasty and childish comments aren't helpful....just an fyi, don't bother responding you are on ignore for me...

[Embrace the Suck]

On 12/26/2018 at 8:13 AM, bealeb319 said:

I am aware. I know Indy fans are definitely rooting for us to lose. Still there are no statistics that say that the team who drafts earliest ends up with the best players. I think the primary focus of the tank crowd is on the first round though.

For one or two less empty moral victories the Jets would not have had to trade three second round picks to move up three spots for a shot at Darnold. Every round matters, even though it's the Jets so maybe they don't.

[14 in Green]

On the list of topics beaten to death here, the tanking one is rapidly gaining ground on the fire Macc and Bowles threads. Thankfully we should be moving on from all three after Monday. 

[Warfish]

40 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course it matters.  Confidence is everything at that position.  It's important going into the off-season feeling good, feeling confident the next time he plays them, knowing he can beat them.  

there's no magic but it helps.

I appreciate your position even if I do not agree with it.

If a player's "confidence" is so weak that a week 16 loss in their rookie campaign has ANY effect on him whatsoever in future seasons.......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

If a player doesn't think he can beat a team because his team lost to them in the final game of a 4-11 rookie season......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

What I'm telling you is this, fragile minded QB's have no place in the NFL.  And they don't succeed.  So we ALL better hope Darnold is not in fact a fragile ego missing confidence type player, because if he is, he has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

I, for one, do not believe he is.  Win or lose, I think he'll be fine.

Hopefully you find my disagreement respectful, and don;t put me on ignore too......

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I appreciate your position even if I do not agree with it.

If a player's "confidence" is so weak that a week 16 loss in their rookie campaign has ANY effect on him whatsoever in future seasons.......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

If a player doesn't think he can beat a team because his team lost to them in the final game of a 4-11 rookie season......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

What I'm telling you is this, fragile minded QB's have no place in the NFL.  And they don't succeed.  So we ALL better hope Darnold is not in fact a fragile ego missing confidence type player, because if he is, he has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

I, for one, do not believe he is.  Win or lose, I think he'll be fine.

Hopefully you find my disagreement respectful, and don;t put me on ignore too......

I get what you're say, I honestly do and don't necessarily disagree...but confidence does matter -
I agree that if a loss like this would ruin him then he'll never be good.

 But...this isn't just another win.  It's Brady and Pats...it's the best team in the history of the NFL - a team he'll have to face twice a year.

Just feels to me like getting a win under his belt against that team is more valuable than one place in draft position.  Maybe next time they play, he'll know he can win and therefor more likely to win...

No one thing should make or break any QB but each are piece of a puzzle.  IMO, Confidence is one of them.  

The past two weeks have been far and away his best performances..but they've been losses.  I certainly hope he cares about winning more than his stats.   Learning how to win matters.

[Maxman]

On 12/26/2018 at 7:59 AM, Lot K Tailgaters said:

I’m not rooting to lose but this is the first time that each week I’ve ever rooted for Darnold to have a great game over winning. 

Basically I’d rather see Darnold throw for 3 TDs and no INTs and not care about the result of the game than win a game 6-3 where he looks awful.  

What happened this year is both amazing and seemed impossible to pull off. They lost a ton of games and it was really no fault of the rookie QB. Early on the rookie maybe couldn't win them any games, but now he can. Yet they still lose. The only things good about that is they do get a sweet draft pick and you hope the issues are correctable with a coaching change.

The no INT thing for Sam has been huge the past few weeks. He got his TD \ INT ratio positive and hopefully he ends the year that way.

[Gastineau Lives]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Of course it matters.  Confidence is everything at that position.  It's important going into the off-season feeling good, feeling confident the next time he plays them, knowing he can beat them.  

there's no magic but it helps.  

I would say it helps more than picking up one spot in the draft that may or may not actually be a good player -

Does that one extra place in the draft magically ensure you draft a hall-of-famer?   Is the team going to mysteriously be guaranteed to be better because they drafted at 3 rather than 4?

 

Nasty and childish comments aren't helpful....just an fyi, don't bother responding you are on ignore for me...

Ill respond anyway. You're wrong. By a mile.

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I appreciate your position even if I do not agree with it.

If a player's "confidence" is so weak that a week 16 loss in their rookie campaign has ANY effect on him whatsoever in future seasons.......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

If a player doesn't think he can beat a team because his team lost to them in the final game of a 4-11 rookie season......well, that player has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

What I'm telling you is this, fragile minded QB's have no place in the NFL.  And they don't succeed.  So we ALL better hope Darnold is not in fact a fragile ego missing confidence type player, because if he is, he has problems well beyond what a single late season win can solve.

I, for one, do not believe he is.  Win or lose, I think he'll be fine.

Hopefully you find my disagreement respectful, and don;t put me on ignore too......

And this is why^^^