Chris Herndon- PFF's 5th highest graded TE (all year)

[DetDawg]

27 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

We have what should be a franchise QB, a pass catching TE, a playmaking wr and a playmaking RB all in their 3rd yr or less.  Patch up that OL, bring in another receiver, tinker at RB and we'll have a dynamic offense

You must be wrong.  We've been assured that Darnold doesn't have any weapons.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

9 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Herndon has been excellent this year. 

The Jets drafted Ardaroius stewart and chad Hansen ahead of kittle. 

The Mac haters always have a rebuttle son.

Kittle was drafted 146th overall. Every GM in the league passed on him...MULTIPLE times. Welcome to a world that doesn't revolve around the Jets. 

[GreenFish]

31 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I would love to see the breakdown of how they make these ratings. He has less receiving yards than  a lot of tight ends but still a really high rating. Is this due to putting  up good numbers with less snaps as they worked him into the offense? Is he better at blocking that we thought?

It’s really encouraging and I’m more hopeful than not that maybe he is a solid all-around TE and that’s helping propel him into the top 5 in regards to this rating. 

They don’t disclose their grading formula unfortunately. But he doesn’t get penalized for not playing earlier in the year. The grade is only for the time he is on the field.  I used to have a PFF subscription but not any more. From what I remember, he grades out well blocking and receiving. 

This draft looks pretty strong. We landed our answer at QB and we got him a top TE. If we can two of Cannon, Shep, Foley and Nickerson to be descent backups, this draft is a homerun.

[Barry McCockinner]

35 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

We have what should be a franchise QB, a pass catching TE, a playmaking wr and a playmaking RB all in their 3rd yr or less.  Patch up that OL, bring in another receiver, tinker at RB and we'll have a dynamic offense

Who is the play making RB?

[redlichtie]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

OK then.  2 hits.  He got a Calvin Pace-level player and a top 10 TE.  In 4 years of mid-round picks.  Still not good enough, and us "Macc haters" aren't under-appreciating him or his picks by any measure. 

Well you carry on hating whoever you want if it makes you feel good about yourself. I’m more interested in who we DO have rather than what we don’t, or could’ve had, and what potential they might have going forward. I don’t see the point in hating anyone for the sake of a mere football team but each to their own I guess.

[Larz]

30 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Cannon has been a bit disappointing in regular play, keep waiting for that big explosive play he's capable of, just hasn't happened yet.   It will

He has been outstanding on ST's as the gunner since they put him there.  Made 3 or 4 impact plays in the last few weeks.  The foul was , IMO, very ticky tacky.  The guy went down to his knee just as Cannon went to hit him mid section.  

If it wasn't such a good, big hit, don't think the ref would have thrown the flag

Cannon has the worst hands on any NFL player I've ever seen. He fights the ball like he hates it lol

He's made numerous big blunders on specials as well, complete lack of awareness cost the jets 2 punts downed on the 2 yard line 

I doubt he survives a new staff 

[Jetmech]

Cannon has been a bit disappointing in regular play, keep waiting for that big explosive play he's capable of, just hasn't happened yet.   It will
He has been outstanding on ST's as the gunner since they put him there.  Made 3 or 4 impact plays in the last few weeks.  The foul was , IMO, very ticky tacky.  The guy went down to his knee just as Cannon went to hit him mid section.  
If it wasn't such a good, big hit, don't think the ref would have thrown the flag

I know he's just slightly off on some of those plays. That was a bad call, because there is no judgement.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

20 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Kittle was drafted 146th overall. Every GM in the league passed on him...MULTIPLE times. Welcome to a world that doesn't revolve around the Jets. 

His new argument for Kittle is mind boggling lame.  I could do this for every team in the league, every year.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Well you carry on hating whoever you want if it makes you feel good about yourself. I’m more interested in who we DO have rather than what we don’t, or could’ve had, and what potential they might have going forward. I don’t see the point in hating anyone for the sake of a mere football team but each to their own I guess. 

I mean, yeah, in the long run football doesn't matter.  But being a fan means you tie your team to your identity.  So when someone is highly paid to bring in talent and fails to do that, and that takes away from my enjoyment (because the team sucks), "hating" ensues. 

But not real, actual hate of course.  If I met Mike Maccagnan in real life I'd be cordial.  But I'd still be pissed off at all the missed opportunities we've had in the last 4 drafts that could have increased my enjoyment in Jets football. 

[greenwichjetfan]

After being extremely high on him since the draft, and him almost single-handedly losing the Jags game early this year, I'm very happy that he's bounced back and had a strong finish to the year.

Not surprisingly, he and Robby are both finishing strong due to Sam's emergence.

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

His new argument for Kittle is mind boggling lame.  I could do this for every team in the league, every year.

Kittle is just one example of many many many fails by our GM. 

He has had 4 full drafts and he has found the QB with a top 3 pick he had to trade up to get.  A punter, a box safety and now a good looking TE

No Wrs  of note other than anderson

No oline of note

No pass rushers

No CBs

He has done a terrible job overall given he has had 4 full drafts.

When you are cutting 3rd and 4th round wrs a year after you draft them you have an issue.

It is his job to be right far more often than he has been.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Kittle is just one example of many many many fails by our GM. 

He has had 4 full drafts and he has found the QB with a top 3 pick he had to trade up to get.  A punter, a box safety and now a good looking TE

No Wrs  of note other than anderson

No oline of note

No pass rushers

No CBs

He has done a terrible job overall given he has had 4 full drafts.

When you are cutting 3rd and 4th round wrs a year after you draft them you have an issue.

It is his job to be right far more often than he has been.

The Kittle argument is the type of argument that makes fans think theyd make a better GM.  Problem is you can do this with ever draft, every GM.  

The rest is a better argument of where he's come up short.  But a different argument.  He's made more than his fair share of mistakes, Kittle is a reach

 

[redlichtie]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, yeah, in the long run football doesn't matter.  But being a fan means you tie your team to your identity.  So when someone is highly paid to bring in talent and fails to do that, and that takes away from my enjoyment (because the team sucks), "hating" ensues. 

But not real, actual hate of course.  If I met Mike Maccagnan in real life I'd be cordial.  But I'd still be pissed off at all the missed opportunities we've had in the last 4 drafts that could have increased my enjoyment in Jets football. 

All fair enough but man life is tough sledding enough without getting wound up about all these so-called missed opportunities. I mean if you never know the pain of defeat how can you ever truly celebrate the joy of winning? Just enjoy what you can control and look forward to seeing if a guy like Chris Herndon can bring us all a bit of fun and enjoyment on Sunday’s from now on. The thing is, if you expect to attain enjoyment every single week without fail then I doubt you’ll ever be truly satisfied. Let’s say Darnold is the next Rodgers or Brady. If he wins 2 Super Bowls in the next 15 years it’ll be amazing but we’ll still have failed to win the other 13 times, right?

As for Mac? there isn’t a single GM in the league who is ‘hitting’ on every pick.

I can guarantee, if you can be arsed(I can’t) go check out the drafts and transactions around the league and report back. You’ll see some good picks and colossal misses. The teams that keep winning have long established HC’s and/or QB’s We don’t....not yet

We finally have the QB. We know the coach is simply not the answer. The next one hopefully will be. The funny thing is if Sam goes on to have the career we all hope and believe he is capable of you’ll be erecting statues of Mike Maccagnan in the parking lot at MetLife because no matter whether you are a ‘hater’ or not or even if he is still here much beyond the next 18 months it will be a mattter of indisputable fact the he was the GM who finally brought us our saviour. 

 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, redlichtie said:

As for Mac? there isn’t a single GM in the league who is ‘hitting’ on every pick.

No one os asking for Mac to "hit on every pick".  Very convenient exaggeration right there, but it doesn't work.

Mac hits on so few picks that he is surely in the bowels of GMs when it comes to draft efficiency.  Comparitavley to other GMs, Mac is near or at the bottom.

[redlichtie]

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Kittle is just one example of many many many fails by our GM. 

He has had 4 full drafts and he has found the QB with a top 3 pick he had to trade up to get.  A punter, a box safety and now a good looking TE

No Wrs  of note other than anderson

No oline of note

No pass rushers

No CBs

He has done a terrible job overall given he has had 4 full drafts.

When you are cutting 3rd and 4th round wrs a year after you draft them you have an issue.

It is his job to be right far more often than he has been.

The thing is, you’d think if he’s as rotten and hopeless a GM as many here bang on about ad infinitum, he wouldn’t have had to trade up to 3 to get him in the first place. 

[redlichtie]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

No one os asking for Mac to "hit on every pick".  Very convenient exaggeration right there, but it doesn't work.

Mac hits on so few picks that he is surely in the bowels of GMs when it comes to draft efficiency.  Comparitavley to other GMs, Mac is near or at the bottom.

OK, go ahead and show me your argumemt with facts and figures

in short, prove it

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

All fair enough but man life is tough sledding enough without getting wound up about all these so-called missed opportunities. I mean if you never know the pain of defeat how can you ever truly celebrate the joy of winning? Just enjoy what you can control and look forward to seeing if a guy like Chris Herndon can bring us all a bit of fun and enjoyment on Sunday’s from now on. The thing is, if you expect to attain enjoyment every single week without fail then I doubt you’ll ever be truly satisfied. Let’s say Darnold is the next Rodgers or Brady. If he wins 2 Super Bowls in the next 15 years it’ll be amazing but we’ll still have failed to win the other 13 times, right?

As for Mac? there isn’t a single GM in the league who is ‘hitting’ on every pick.

I can guarantee, if you can be arsed(I can’t) go check out the drafts and transactions around the league and report back. You’ll see some good picks and colossal misses. The teams that keep winning have long established HC’s and/or QB’s We don’t....not yet

We finally have the QB. We know the coach is simply not the answer. The next one hopefully will be. The funny thing is if Sam goes on to have the career we all hope and believe he is capable of you’ll be erecting statues of Mike Maccagnan in the parking lot at MetLife because no matter whether you are a ‘hater’ or not or even if he is still here much beyond the next 18 months it will be a mattter of indisputable fact the he was the GM who finally brought us our saviour. 

 

 

The big stat that says you're wrong is all the picks Macc has made of players who are out of the league entirely.  Especially those that were made in the middle rounds.  I think it's something like 63 % of his middle rounders (2-5)  And that includes quite a few players who were given chances with other teams, which of course hurts the "Bowles is 100 % responsible for all of our problems" reasoning. 

No GM has made more picks like that than Macc.  He leads the league in middle round picks that are out of the league.  So yes, there's certifiable, quantitative proof out there, that's relatively easy to find, suggesting Macc is awful at the most important part of his job. 

[Jetsfan80]

@redlichtie the proof i'm talking about:

 

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2018/12/19/18148590/mike-maccagnan-doesnt-have-a-very-strong-case-to-keep-his-job-as-jets-general-manager

 

Jason_OTC

 

✔ @Jason_OTC

 

Im assuming some of that was people wanting to see where Maccagnan of the Jets fits in so here you go. Since 2015 the Jets rank last in drafted players still in the league and tied for 22nd with players still on their own team.

[redlichtie]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The big stat that says you're wrong is all the picks Macc has made of players who are out of the league entirely.  Especially those that were made in the middle rounds.  I think it's something like 63 % of his middle rounders (2-5)  And that includes quite a few players who were given chances with other teams, which of course hurts the "Bowles is 100 % responsible for all of our problems" reasoning. 

No GM has made more picks like that than Macc.  He leads the league in middle round picks that are out of the league.  So yes, there's certifiable, quantitative proof out there, that's relatively easy to find, suggesting Macc is awful at the most important part of his job. 

Wrong about what?

[ChuckkieB]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. This Mac hater acknowledges that he made a very good pick in Herndon and made a great move to trade up to #3 to grab a QB, but that doesn't forgive him for the pile of bad picks he's made in 4 years.  The bad far outweighs the good.  

[Jetsfan80]

Thus, we can say Mike Maccagnan is, objectively, terrible.  No one is saying GM's don't swing and miss.  We're just saying Macc's whiffs have been more frequent and more damaging.  The former part of the statement is easily proven by my post above.  The latter can be proven based on the results and how some of the players we missed out on are doing. 

The Christian Hackenberg pick sums things up.  2nd round pick who was graded by everyone else as a 4th/5th.  Never played a down in the NFL.  And he directly cost us both DeShaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes. 

That alone is a firable offense. 

Sorry, but Chris Herndon and Jordan Jenkins don't save him from the label as the worst GM (or at least bottom 3) in the NFL. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Wrong about what?

That every GM makes mistakes, equally.  Macc is statistically the worst drafter in the NFL.  It's not some vague thing where we need to examine all the drafts every GM has made with a fine tooth comb.  That's been done for us already. 

He drafts players who are worthless and end up failing with us and never making it onto another team, or go to another team and get cut, never to see the NFL again.  And he does that at a higher rate than any GM in the NFL. 

[Villain The Foe]

really great to see. Herndon is in the top half of the league in terms of yards and top 10 in TD's. 

With that said, how the hell did the Jets pass on George Kittle? There were many of us talking about how he's sneaky better than OJ Howard back in 2017. 

Dude had a MONSTER season. 

[redlichtie]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That every GM makes mistakes, equally.  Macc is statistically the worst drafter in the NFL.  It's not some vague thing where we need to examine all the drafts every GM has made with a fine tooth comb.  That's been done for us already. 

He drafts players who are worthless and end up failing with us and never making it onto another team, or go to another team and get cut, never to see the NFL again.  And he does that at a higher rate than any GM in the NFL. 

So what you are saying is that it is an un-arguable fact that no other GM makes mistakes?. Only Mike Maccagnan?

OK

enjoy the holidays

[Dcat]

12 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

OK, go ahead and show me your argumemt with facts and figures

in short, prove it

way to ignore your "hit on every pick" super exaggeration.   Do the freaking research yourself.  If the proof on the field isn't obvious to you and the number of Maccagnan picks who are out of the league already doesn't overwhelm you (and there was a post in this forum that showed Mac has the highest percentage of picks in the last 4 years that are now out of the league), then you choose to remain delusional about Mike Maccagnan.

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Macc is statistically the worst drafter in the NFL

Says who?  Curious.  Who's numbers prove this?

[Dcat]

4 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

So what you are saying is that it is an un-arguable fact that no other GM makes mistakes?. Only Mike Maccagnan?

OK

enjoy the holidays

You just love silly "all-or-nothing" reasoning, don't you?

All GMs make mistakes.  Not all GMs make this many mistakes so much so that they have the highest percentage of 4 years of draft picks who are already out of the NFL.

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

We have what should be a franchise QB, a pass catching TE, a playmaking wr and a playmaking RB all in their 3rd yr or less.  Patch up that OL, bring in another receiver, tinker at RB and we'll have a dynamic offense

This almost sounds like Mac is doing well enough.........

[More Cowbell]

It's really amazing how a thread about how our rookue TE is rated in the top 5 becamse a thread about Macs ability  to draft. I think we have a lot of the latter type all over the forum.

As for Herndon,  we can be looking at another Rivers to Gates type of connection here. I love that we have a legit threat at TE. 

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

It's really amazing how a thread about how our rookue TE is rated in the top 5 becamse a thread about Macs ability  to draft. I think we have a lot of the latter type all over the forum.

As for Herndon,  we can be looking at another Rivers to Gates type of connection here. I love that we have a legit threat at TE. 

agreed.  Herndon is working out nicely and once his legal issues are resolved and his suspension declared and over with, he has a very promising future.  Good talent right there.  Good draft pick.

But the Mac apologists are freaking desperate to find anything to pin their illogical devotion to him on.  They ignore the plethora of disaster picks/contracts he has subjected us to.  So yes, Herndon was a good pick, but no, it doesn't change a thing about the disaster that has been Mike Maccagnan.  A broken clock is right twice per day.

 

[Rangers9]

As we open up our offense and it looked good last Sunday here's hoping that the tight end is a more integral part of our O. For years we have downplayed that position. This guy should get more targets next year and hopefully over 50 receptions. 

[kevinc855]

The Darnold to Herndon connection is Gona become a very dangerous thing soon

[Beerfish]

38 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

So what you are saying is that it is an un-arguable fact that no other GM makes mistakes?. Only Mike Maccagnan?

OK

enjoy the holidays

The age old tact of: I have been beaten down and shown that the gm stinks so I will say hey, other gms stink so it is okay for our gm to stink.

[pdxgreen]

Glad to see he's doing so well.  That catch he made last week was amazing.  Macc still can't draft for ____ .

[Jetsfan80]

54 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

So what you are saying is that it is an un-arguable fact that no other GM makes mistakes?. Only Mike Maccagnan?

OK

enjoy the holidays

lol.  It's an unarguable fact that no one makes more mistakes than Mike Maccagnan, and there's certifiable proof of it. 

Not sure why you're so pissed at me about this.  I'm just the messenger.