Chris Herndon- PFF's 5th highest graded TE (all year)

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The Macc haters are not going to like this at all:

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

51 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

It's really amazing how a thread about how our rookue TE is rated in the top 5 becamse a thread about Macs ability  to draft. I think we have a lot of the latter type all over the forum.

The very first post of the thread was basically a "Take THAT Macc haters.  NOW what do you have to say?"

The rest of us:  "Hold my beer."

[HawkeyeJet]

Why does every damn thread about player have to devolve into a debate about how good/terrible the GM is?

Herndon appears to be a very good player.  At a position we haven't had a very good player in a long time.  People should be happy we have him.

It doesn't mean Macc is great.  it also doesn't mean he can't be given credit for some(if only a few) of the good things he has done.

Good grief. 

[redlichtie]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

way to ignore your "hit on every pick" super exaggeration.   Do the freaking research yourself.  If the proof on the field isn't obvious to you and the number of Maccagnan picks who are out of the league already doesn't overwhelm you (and there was a post in this forum that showed Mac has the highest percentage of picks in the last 4 years that are now out of the league), then you choose to remain delusional about Mike Maccagnan.

I didn’t ignore anything because I never claimed anything of the sort but I suspect this isn’t about that. this is about you being a small man in your real life and feeling like waving your d!ck around on the internet makes up for it. If you are mentally incapable of a civilised discussion then carry on playing caveman with someone who gives a sh!t.

I am neither here nor there on Maccagnan, but I recognise, unlike yourself(which is ironic considering I’m apparently delusional) that there’s exactly zero either you or I can do about it. So if he’s retained for 2019 i’ll spend precisely no time getting corpuscles all rustled and bleating on and on and on and over and over again about it. Poisoning and ruining every discussion and thread with the same old boring record.  I’ll just support who actually is out in the field. Whoever they were drafted by

meanwhile Chris Herndon is a pretty good player

[nyjunc]

2 hours ago, DetDawg said:

You must be wrong.  We've been assured that Darnold doesn't have any weapons.  

They are developing along with the QB.  They aren't there yet but watch out a year or two from now

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Who is the play making RB?

McGuire and I also think Cannon will be a very valuable weapon but I really like McGuire.

[redlichtie]

15 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Why does every damn thread about player have to devolve into a debate about how good/terrible the GM is?

Herndon appears to be a very good player.  At a position we haven't had a very good player in a long time.  People should be happy we have him.

It doesn't mean Macc is great.  it also doesn't mean he can't be given credit for some(if only a few) of the good things he has done.

Good grief. 

Well said

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

This almost sounds like Mac is doing well enough.........

He's not Ozzie newsome but he's not John idzik either

[redlichtie]

48 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The age old tact of: I have been beaten down and shown that the gm stinks so I will say hey, other gms stink so it is okay for our gm to stink.

More the age old realisation i’m dealing with an imbecile for whom intelligent discussion is impossible.

also enjoy the holidays

[redlichtie]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The very first post of the thread was basically a "Take THAT Macc haters.  NOW what do you have to say?"

The rest of us:  "Hold my beer."

Well damn you showed everyone

[Lith]

21 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Why does every damn thread about player have to devolve into a debate about how good/terrible the GM is?

Herndon appears to be a very good player.  At a position we haven't had a very good player in a long time.  People should be happy we have him.

It doesn't mean Macc is great.  it also doesn't mean he can't be given credit for some(if only a few) of the good things he has done.

Good grief. 

Does not help when the first sentence in the thread is "Macc haters are not going to like this".  The thread did not devolve into this.  The OP started it off that way.

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

I didn’t ignore anything because I never claimed anything of the sort but I suspect this isn’t about that. this is about you being a small man in your real life and feeling like waving your d!ck around on the internet makes up for it. If you are mentally incapable of a civilised discussion then carry on playing caveman with someone who gives a sh!t.

I am neither here nor there on Maccagnan, but I recognise, unlike yourself(which is ironic considering I’m apparently delusional) that there’s exactly zero either you or I can do about it. So if he’s retained for 2019 i’ll spend precisely no time getting corpuscles all rustled and bleating on and on and on and over and over again about it. Poisoning and ruining every discussion and thread with the same old boring record.  I’ll just support who actually is out in the field. Whoever they were drafted by

meanwhile Chris Herndon is a pretty good player

only an ass-hole would make a debate about an NFL GM personal.  GFY.  You have issues.

[HawkeyeJet]

I will say this about Kittle as well.

Obviously I watched him a lot in college.  I knew he was talented.  On a different board, I even said don't be surprised if he turns out to be the best overall TE out of that class. 

No one, and I mean no one, could have predicted this type of receiving production.  If they did, it would have been a flat out shot in the dark based on nothing.

[redlichtie]

Just now, Dcat said:

only an ass-hole would make a debate about an NFL GM personal.  GFY.  You have issues.

You did indeed. I defer to your greater knowledge on that

[HawkeyeJet]

1 minute ago, Lith said:

Does not help when the first sentence in the thread is "Macc haters are not going to like this".  The thread did not devolve into this.  The OP started it off that way.

That is true.  It happens on both sides of the fence.

 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Well damn you showed everyone

Sure did!  Why so mad at me?  Macc's the one who sucks. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, HawkeyeJet said:

I will say this about Kittle as well.

Obviously I watched him a lot in college.  I knew he was talented.  On a different board, I even said don't be surprised if he turns out to be the best overall TE out of that class. 

No one, and I mean no one, could have predicted this type of receiving production.  If they did, it would have been a flat out shot in the dark based on nothing.

I remember you talking Kittle up.  Iowa certainly has produced some nice NFL O-linemen and TEs.  

[Lith]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That is true.  It happens on both sides of the fence.

 

At least one way or another, by this time next week, we shoudl know if he is back or not.  Wont stop the debate, but it will make it even more pointless than it is now.

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

I am neither here nor there on Maccagnan, but I recognise, unlike yourself(which is ironic considering I’m apparently delusional) that there’s exactly zero either you or I can do about it.

Our owner listens to the media and may even listen when a banner or 2 flies over the stadium.

Some Jets beat writers copy what people say on these boards.  Sometimes almost word for word. 

The pulse of the fanbase plays at least a small role in what our owner does.  So I disagree that what we say here, collectively, doesn't matter.  I don't know exactly how much it matters, but it does. 

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, redlichtie said:

You did indeed. I defer to your greater knowledge on that

 Resorting to argumentum ad hominem is pathetic of you.  But I guess desperation prevails.  

[RutgersJetFan]

That is nuts. I thought that guy was gonna be terrible and that is shocking because I have never been wrong about anything in my life.

[jgb]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The Macc haters are not going to like this at all:

 

 

Macc struck gold with Herndon. Still amused however how people still conflate criticizing a proven below-average GM with wanting him to fail. It's that kind of "all or nothing" thinking that is neither productive nor accurate.

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 minutes ago, jgb said:

Macc struck gold with Herndon. Still amused however how people still conflate criticizing a proven below-average GM with wanting him to fail. It's that kind of "all or nothing" thinking that is neither productive nor accurate.

And the SOJFs incessant whining is productive? Gotcha

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

And the SOJFs incessant whining is productive? Gotcha

The pity is the SOJF's and the doom sayers have been 95% correct about this team, its coachs, gms, players for about a dozen years.  The happy happy joy joy club has been right about 5% of the time.

[jgb]

32 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

And the SOJFs incessant whining is productive? Gotcha

Actually no discussion about a sports team that doesn’t know any of us exist is not “productive,” however the “SOJF” have been (a) correct; and (b) direct their ire at those that deserve it (the team and decision makers) and not fellow fans who actually do know each other.

22 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The pity is the SOJF's and the doom sayers have been 95% correct about this team, its coachs, gms, players for about a dozen years.  The happy happy joy joy club has been right about 5% of the time.

Would rather be wrong than correct, but dark siders have been right for nearly 50 years so... I’d always choose an unpleasant reality over a jelly bean fantasy.

[FidelioJet]

28 minutes ago, jgb said:

Macc struck gold with Herndon. Still amused however how people still conflate criticizing a proven below-average GM with wanting him to fail. It's that kind of "all or nothing" thinking that is neither productive nor accurate.

The talent on this is porous.  Hitting on a few good players is an eventuality.  You could have likely used some NFL draft projection web-site and done better than Mac.  

In fact I would say almost certainly would have - 

[JoJoTownsell1]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The pity is the SOJF's and the doom sayers have been 95% correct about this team, its coachs, gms, players for about a dozen years.  The happy happy joy joy club has been right about 5% of the time.

The vast majority of GMs fail and get fired before winning anything so the doom and gloom members of every fanbase will be "right" more often than not.

As @redlichtie noted a few posts before, I don't think anyone LOVES Macc or think he's done a great job. I don't think any of us would care if he got fired. I just don't think it's a necessary step towards winning a SB and not something I choose to obsess over. I think there are pieces in place, and we have the cap space and high draft pick this year to make a run next year.  If Macc doesn't make it happen this off-season and we have another 4-12/6-10 type year I am pretty sure he will be gone, pitchforks or not. 

[RutgersJetFan]

Also, TIL that looking at 13 total wins over a 3-year span and coming to the conclusion of "this is not good;" makes one a hater.

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The vast majority of GMs fail and get fired before winning anything so the doom and gloom members of every fanbase will be "right" more often than not.

As @redlichtie noted a few posts before, I don't think anyone LOVES Macc or think he's done a great job. I don't think any of us would care if he got fired. I just don't think it's a necessary step towards winning a SB and not something I choose to obsess over. I think there are pieces in place, and we have the cap space and high draft pick this year to make a run next year.  If Macc doesn't make it happen this off-season and we have another 4-12/6-10 type year I am pretty sure he will be gone, pitchforks or not. 

Here's me real concern though - it's not that he missed on a lot of players - the draft is a bit of luck..if that were it I would have no problem if they brought him back...It's his logic that scares me.

consistently drafting interior defensive players in the top 10 (DL, MLB, Safety) - in a league where those position are least impactful and more often available in FA...back-to-back safeties, passing on quality QB's to take a safety.  Taking a D-lineman when that's the only position on the team that is already strong....barely drafting o-linmen (I think 3 in four years)

Just seems like he honestly doesn't grasp basic fundamentals of how to build a roster in todays NFL.

With that in mind I just don't trust him to build a team around Darnold...

 

[jgb]

22 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

The talent on this is porous.  Hitting on a few good players is an eventuality.  You could have likely used some NFL draft projection web-site and done better than Mac.  

In fact I would say almost certainly would have - 

Oh I agree however he did hit on a player in the 4th so he does get credit for that. However it’s a major problem that him finally hitting on a player outside the top 6 is such a monumental event—rare hits do not make a credible cudgel for bashing “haters” with.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Also, TIL that looking at 13 total wins over a 3-year span and coming to the conclusion of "this is not good;" makes one a hater.

But this was all Todd Bowles' fault tho

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Here's me real concern though - it's not that he missed on a lot of players - the draft is a bit of luck..if that were it I would have no problem if they brought him back...It's his logic that scares me.

consistently drafting interior defensive players in the top 10 (DL, MLB, Safety) - in a league where those position are least impactful and more often available in FA...back-to-back safeties, passing on quality QB's to take a safety.  Taking a D-lineman when that's the only position on the team that is already strong....barely drafting o-linmen (I think 3 in four years)

Just seems like he honestly doesn't grasp basic fundamentals of how to build a roster in todays NFL.

With that in mind I just don't trust him to build a team around Darnold...

 

I was on record as hating the Maye pick after taking Adams. 

As for his selection of Williams/Adams, some of that is just, as you said, "luck." Williams was far and away the highest graded player left when we were up to pick. The one guy EVERYONE was crying about was Vic Beasley, who did have 14 sacks his 2nd year, but has been a huge disappointment the last 2 years (Jenkins has more sacks this year than Beasley.) In fact, many think the Falcons are going to try and part ways with Beasley. So it's not like he passed on JJ Watt. Some maybe wanted us to trade up for Dante Fowler, who also has been a disappointment. 

In the Jamal Adams year, some wanted us to take a playmaker instead of Adams (who is now a pro bowler). Guys like Mike WIlliams and John Ross haven't done much (neither have a 100 yard game in their career). Although Macc definitely could have/should have taken Mahomes/Watson but in the end I am happy with Darnold/Adams vs Watson/X. 

And there are a fair share of busts in the middle rounds. Again, I am not giving Macc an A or even a B for his time as GM, but I am also optimistic in our future thanks to his trade up and selection of Darnold. Was that a little bit of luck? Of course. But any time you take a great player in the draft (after pick 1/2) it's luck that allowed him to fall.  The Pats got lucky 188 times before they selected Brady in the 6th round. 

[redlichtie]

29 minutes ago, jgb said:

Actually no discussion about a sports team that doesn’t know any of us exist is not “productive,” however the “SOJF” have been (a) correct; and (b) direct their ire at those that deserve it (the team and decision makers) and not fellow fans who actually do know each other.

Would rather be wrong than correct, but dark siders have been right for nearly 50 years so... I’d always choose an unpleasant reality over a jelly bean fantasy.

And this, right here is what it’s alll about. For some people, being right on the Internet is crack cocaine, it’s acceptancevin a tribe, it’s all that matters, all-consuming and more important than whether or not our team actually wins or not...... Sad but true.

personally I come here to learn something. to laugh at stuff, to hear opposing viewpoints. But there’s a catch. I expect those viewpoints to be constructed with something a little more complex than ‘SOMEONE SUUUCKS’ which is unfortunately all too often the begininning and end of a construed argument. Luckily there are some who are capable of putting together well thought out points of view and leaving food for thought but usually the cavemen appear, and on both sides. Within seconds ....depressing

Personally I just don’t understand why people need to be ‘right’ about something over the success of their football team. It seems to me it must make life pretty miserable forever but whatever floats your boat

[jgb]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I was on record as hating the Maye pick after taking Adams. 

As for his selection of Williams/Adams, some of that is just, as you said, "luck." Williams was far and away the highest graded player left when we were up to pick. The one guy EVERYONE was crying about was Vic Beasley, who did have 14 sacks his 2nd year, but has been a huge disappointment the last 2 years (Jenkins has more sacks this year than Beasley.) In fact, many think the Falcons are going to try and part ways with Beasley. So it's not like he passed on JJ Watt. Some maybe wanted us to trade up for Dante Fowler, who also has been a disappointment. 

In the Jamal Adams year, some wanted us to take a playmaker instead of Adams (who is now a pro bowler). Guys like Mike WIlliams and John Ross haven't done much (neither have a 100 yard game in their career). Although Macc definitely could have/should have taken Mahomes/Watson but in the end I am happy with Darnold/Adams vs Watson/X. 

And there are a fair share of busts in the middle rounds. Again, I am not giving Macc an A or even a B for his time as GM, but I am also optimistic in our future thanks to his trade up and selection of Darnold. Was that a little bit of luck? Of course. But any time you take a great player in the draft (after pick 1/2) it's luck that allowed him to fall.  The Pats got lucky 188 times before they selected Brady in the 6th round. 

All of this is pretty much in line with the vast majority of fans including the “dark siders,” makes the gratuitous shot in your original post that much more perplexing 

[Creepy Lurker]

13 minutes ago, jgb said:

Actually no discussion about a sports team that doesn’t know any of exist is not “productive,” however the “SOJF” have been (a) correct; and (b) direct their ire at those that deserve it (the team and decision makers) and not fellow fans who actually do know each other.

Would rather be wrong than correct, but dark siders have been right for nearly 50 years so... I’d always choose an unpleasant reality over a jelly bean fantasy.

This is what I don’t understand. Fans that aren’t ok with a failure coach and GM that talk about it (on of all things a message board), direct their anger where it’s deserved. We blame the coach and GM. We have reasonable expectations but when they both sh*t the bed, passionate fans get upset. It seems like the holier than thou “homers” attack these fans.

@JoJoTownsell1 started the thread by instigating and then calling out SOJFs. It’s not just him and I am just making a point (sorry to single you out @JoJoTownsell1). This is just an example of an ongoing theme from what seems to be insecure fans. 

 Sure we can agree to disagree and ,we most surely will, but why constantly attack fellow fans when the majority feel a certain way? Is it jealousy, trolling? I don’t understand and all issues with the TEAM should be directed at the TEAM.

No fan is responsible for the product on the field and if most are taking a stand, why not disagree and leave it at that. Neither side should be actively trying to convince the other to change their minds. People have opinions for a reason and extensive dialogue will hopefully make the other side understand where you are coming from. Nothing more.

TOGETHER we should attack the real enemy (horrible owner/coach/front office/other teams and their fans). Both sides are guilty of this. This is just my opinion on how a fanbase with differing opinions should co-exist. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Personally I just don’t understand why people need to be ‘right’ about something over the success of their football team. It seems to me it must make life pretty miserable forever but 

1.  I'd love to be proven wrong.  I'd love for Mike Maccagnan to become an overnight drafting sensation.

2.  It doesn't give me nearly the pleasure to be right as you think it does.  I'd rather be dead wrong and for the Jets to be successful in spite of what I've already stated.  But they don't, so here we are. 

3.  Trying to "get it right" when it comes to the problems with the Jets helps direct the anger at the right people.  You're directing your anger at fellow fans, when the anger needs to be directed at ownership and the front office.  Knowing the reasons WHY things are the way that they are is kind of important if you're gonna handle being a Jets fan, which is tough enough as it is. 

4.  Posting our thoughts on this very message board has proven to make a difference, albeit a small one.  No need to minimize that part.