Augustiniak Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The only defense of Macc for the past 4 years is that he doesn't actually do anything. So, I'm not sure how neutering him now represents a change. But yes, logistically, this is so problematic, as the only option now is to give Macc, possibly the least deserved extension since Mark Sanchez. Totally not accurate. Mccagnan must be given the credit for getting darnold. Also, herndon looks like he could become a top TE. In one draft they found 2 offensive weapons, one of which looks like a franchise qb. This is way better than anything Sanchez did. I get the mccagnan hate. I can only hope that he’s on the favorable end of his learning curve and that he’ll draft better from here on in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: To be clear, Sperm is saying the same as many early-doubters, but with 5,000 extra words for style points. More words = more style I believe this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The only defense of Macc for the past 4 years is that he doesn't actually do anything. So, I'm not sure how neutering him now represents a change. But yes, logistically, this is so problematic, as the only option now is to give Macc, possibly the least deserved extension since Mark Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Weird. Mike Maccagnan instilled the consistant lack of discipline and was responsible for the terrible game plans and non existant in game adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Playing devil's advocate here-Howie Roseman had some terribly directed drafts at the beginning of his tenure. He was then neutered when Chip Kelly came on board, and then handed the keys back to the kingdom when Kelly was subsequently vanished. Roseman came back with a vengeance and made some rather astute moves, and draft picks, that were a foundation of a SB winner. This is not a "support Macc" post, but there are examples of a GM learning from previous mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 29 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: Bowles is the strong arming type, for sure It's funny how fans forget the longest running joke has been about how many Safeties or defensive tackles we're going to draft or sign. Anyone that thinks Todd Bowles didn't try to replicate his Arizona team here is fooling themselves. All of this whining will go away when we see everything we've been doing here flipped on it's head as we target the Oline, and skill players. The defense still needs an edge rusher & another CB. Tuesday, January 2nd, it's a new day in the direction of this team. Not only has Maccs move to 3 last year landed us our future franchise QB, but it also pushed Bowles out the door and will finally usher in the year the New York Jets join this era of NFL football. This is going to be like how the 50s and Doo Wop, morphed into Woodstock. For 8 years, the Jets have been the most BORING football team I have ever watched. EVER! Every week seemed like deja vu. I've had more fun watching Darnolds last 3 games than I've had since 2010, and we lost 2 of them. I don't care if it was luck, the curse of Namath ending, the Giants making the dumbest mistake ever, the only thing I care about now is the Jets future starting this offseason, 2019. And Mike Maccagnan is the GM that may have turned the fortunes of this organization for YEARS to come. So hate on him all you want, cry about the picks that haven't been made yet, or the free agents we haven't signed yet, but starting right after the announcement that Todd Bowles has been fired will be the most exciting time to be a Jet fan since the 1998 season, PERIOD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Who would read all that nonsense. Mac sucks and will be fired along w/ bowles either later today or tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Augustiniak said: Totally not accurate. Mccagnan must be given the credit for getting darnold. Also, herndon looks like he could become a top TE. In one draft they found 2 offensive weapons, one of which looks like a franchise qb. This is way better than anything Sanchez did. I get the mccagnan hate. I can only hope that he’s on the favorable end of his learning curve and that he’ll draft better from here on in. This word is my concern and seems to be the ONLY reason people want to keep him around despite all of he logistical problems that it causes with attracting external candidates. I can’t see how “hope” is enough to justify keeping him and forgive all of the mistakes that are FACT and actually happened. I’m sure he Buccaneers “hoped” that Winston would become a good QB but after 4 years of futility (like Mac), it would be foolish for them to continue to “hope” and both their wagon to him. I realize this is an apples/oranges comparison but just trying to loosely make a point. Things can be taken way too literally here which is why I state this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: Weird. Mike Maccagnan instilled the consistant lack of discipline and was responsible for the terrible game plans and non existant in game adjustments. As much as I dislike Mac, Bowles is the worst thing that I have seen in a long time. He literally forced the Jets to fire him and they clearly don’t want to fire anyone. With the longest leash possible, he screwed it up. Bowles is an abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: To be clear, Sperm is saying the same as many early-doubters, but with 5,000 extra words for style points. Academic debate is, and always has been, an endurance sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20andOut Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Is there any source or basis for these "true facts" or is this just an exercise in creative writing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Augustiniak said: Totally not accurate. Mccagnan must be given the credit for getting darnold. Also, herndon looks like he could become a top TE. In one draft they found 2 offensive weapons, one of which looks like a franchise qb. This is way better than anything Sanchez did. I get the mccagnan hate. I can only hope that he’s on the favorable end of his learning curve and that he’ll draft better from here on in. Had he traded up to #1 and landed him I'd agree. He traded up to a position to get neither Darnold nor Mayfield, yet still ended up with one of them. It was a given that a minimum of 1 QB would be off the board, with a solid probability of 2 of them -- he's said himself he was shocked the Giants passed on Darnold at #2. This position is therefore akin to saying: with a lot of money riding on it, he once flipped a coin and called heads and heads it was. Therefore we believe he is skilled at correctly calling coin flips and expect this to be a repeatable outcome in the future. Herndon, lol. Herndon looks just fine but to overlook the 90+% rate of worse-than-expected and outright failures, by pointing at the 5-10% success rate... sorry it's not very compelling to me. Particularly when his failures have been so uniquely embarrassing like Christian Hackenberg, yet are ignored as though they never happened. Darnold was a prospect requiring no particular skill to assess. Hackenberg was the one that actually involved making a judgment call and talent assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Academic debate is, and always has been, an endurance sport. Tom, in one of his academic pursuits (sorry, I just had to) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Scott Dierking said: Tom, in one of his academic pursuits (sorry, I just had to) Yeah, I’ve given all that up and just try to insert lame gifs and ad hominem burns every so often. I leave the high minded stuff to the smarties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Had he traded up to #1 and landed him I'd agree. He traded up to a position to get neither Darnold nor Mayfield, yet still ended up with one of them. It was a given that a minimum of 1 QB would be off the board, with a solid probability of 2 of them -- he's said himself he was shocked the Giants passed on Darnold at #2. This position is therefore akin to saying: with a lot of money riding on it, he once flipped a coin and called heads and heads it was. Therefore we believe he is skilled at correctly calling coin flips and expect this to be a repeatable outcome in the future. Herndon, lol. Herndon looks just fine but to overlook the 90+% rate of worse-than-expected and outright failures, by pointing at the 5-10% success rate... sorry it's not very compelling to me. Particularly when his failures have been so uniquely embarrassing like Christian Hackenberg, yet are ignored as though they never happened. Darnold was a prospect requiring no particular skill to assess. Hackenberg was the one that actually involved making a judgment call and talent assessment. He traded up for mayfield, and mayfield would have been fine too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: Totally not accurate. Mccagnan must be given the credit for getting darnold. Also, herndon looks like he could become a top TE. In one draft they found 2 offensive weapons, one of which looks like a franchise qb. This is way better than anything Sanchez did. I get the mccagnan hate. I can only hope that he’s on the favorable end of his learning curve and that he’ll draft better from here on in. Give credit to Macc for trading up to 3 (though widely reported it was Heimerdinger who actually did it). Give credit to Dave Gettleman for us getting Darnold. Also, the overarching point is that if you're going to blame Bowles for the fact that over the last 4 years, no NFL team has drafted worse than the Jets, then why isn't Bowles the one who gets credit for the things we like? Ultimately, the Bowles "hate" and Macc defense is founded on a very simple, very stupid idea: Everything I don't like is Todd Bowles' fault, and everything I do like is because of Macc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Academic debate is, and always has been, an endurance sport. In terms of posting I can last for well over an hour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Academic debate is, and always has been, an endurance sport. Football website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Oh that dude sh*t himself Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said: This word is my concern and seems to be the ONLY reason people want to keep him around despite all of he logistical problems that it causes with attracting external candidates. I can’t see how “hope” is enough to justify keeping him and forgive all of the mistakes that are FACT and actually happened. I’m sure he Buccaneers “hoped” that Winston would become a good QB but after 4 years of futility (like Mac), it would be foolish for them to continue to “hope” and both their wagon to him. I realize this is an apples/oranges comparison but just trying to loosely make a point. Things can be taken way too literally here which is why I state this. Never said i wanted to keep him. But, since he’s staying, I’m hoping he’s learned how to draft better. Maybe a different HC will push for different players and that will make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Integrity28 said: Football website. Don’t minimize my one portal for fringe social interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Augustiniak said: He traded up for mayfield, and mayfield would have been fine too. He said he wanted one of the 3. He traded up for the worst of the 3, whomever that might have been. You can't credibly say he traded up to #3 in order to get one of 2 players who could have both been gone by #3. Either that or you're admitting he can't count to 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, T0mShane said: Yeah, I’ve given all that up and just try to insert lame gifs and ad hominem burns every so often. I leave the high minded stuff to the smarties. Don't sell yourself short. You are a muckraking provocateur of the highest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark78 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, TeddEY said: Give credit to Macc for trading up to 3 (though widely reported it was Heimerdinger who actually did it). Give credit to Dave Gettleman for us getting Darnold. Also, the overarching point is that if you're going to blame Bowles for the fact that over the last 4 years, no NFL team has drafted worse than the Jets, then why isn't Bowles the one who gets credit for the things we like? Ultimately, the Bowles "hate" and Macc defense is founded on a very simple, very stupid idea: Everything I don't like is Todd Bowles' fault, and everything I do like is because of Macc. There isn’t much to like in bowles’ tenure except for watching darnold grow. The defense can’t hold a lead and bowles hasn’t done himself any favors keeping the defensive coordinator all this time. Any other DC would probably not have lost all those games at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: Weird. Mike Maccagnan instilled the consistant lack of discipline and was responsible for the terrible game plans and non existant in game adjustments. If anyone was saying, "don't fire Todd Bowles," this would be relevant. The closest anyone's come to saying that is something I actually agree with, if you're going to keep one, it makes more sense to keep both on the last year of their deal, and get rid of them both together, or see if they magically turn it around next year together. This splitting them up is not only stupid, but represents a complete lack of learning anything from the Tannenbaum/Rex/Idzik disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Give credit to Macc for trading up to 3 (though widely reported it was Heimerdinger who actually did it). Give credit to Dave Gettleman for us getting Darnold. Also, the overarching point is that if you're going to blame Bowles for the fact that over the last 4 years, no NFL team has drafted worse than the Jets, then why isn't Bowles the one who gets credit for the things we like? Ultimately, the Bowles "hate" and Macc defense is founded on a very simple, very stupid idea: Everything I don't like is Todd Bowles' fault, and everything I do like is because of Macc. Ha, define "widely". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Oh that dude sh*t himself Christ Wow I completely missed that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: He said he wanted one of the 3. He traded up for the worst of the 3, whomever that might have been. You can't credibly say he traded up to #3 in order to get one of 2 players who could have both been gone by #3. Either that or you're admitting he can't count to 2. This debate is old old old, but trying to put yourself in mccagnan’s shoes back then, it is reasonable to think that he believed the giants would take Rosen and the jets were going to get mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: Wow I completely missed that too Damn, I needed a more graphic image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, HawkeyeJet said: Wow I completely missed that too I had to expand out because I know Scott wouldn’t just throw up a random pic of a runner. I thought maybe his dick was hanging out or something. Posting random stock pictures based on synapse failure is @joewilly12‘s niche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: Never said i wanted to keep him. But, since he’s staying, I’m hoping he’s learned how to draft better. Maybe a different HC will push for different players and that will make a difference. I didn’t mean to come off as accusing you of this. I was just pointing out that this seems to be the main point for keeping him. I too “hope” for everything to work out and want this team to be good no matter how they get there. I just choose to root/push for the best way to get there based on my opinions. This is why I’m completely against keeping Mac but I will surely support the team and hope for the best regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, TeddEY said: If anyone was saying, "don't fire Todd Bowles," this would be relevant. The closest anyone's come to saying that is something I actually agree with, if you're going to keep one, it makes more sense to keep both on the last year of their deal, and get rid of them both together, or see if they magically turn it around next year together. This splitting them up is not only stupid, but represents a complete lack of learning anything from the Tannenbaum/Rex/Idzik disaster. I have never once said I think Macc is great. I have said multiple times he should also be fired. I just happen to think he is slightly better at his job than Todd Bowles is at his. Is that alright? No one is saying don't fire Bowles. That may be the truth, but lots of people sure like to frame things like he's some sort of scapegoat who just drew the short straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, HawkeyeJet said: I have never once said I think Macc is great. I have said multiple times he should also be fired. I just happen to think he is slightly better at his job than Todd Bowles is at his. Is that alright? No one is saying don't fire Bowles. That may be the truth, but lots of people sure like to frame things like he's some sort of scapegoat who just drew the short straw. Is there anyone worse at their job then Todd Bowles? I’m not sure that is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Just now, Creepy Lurker said: Is there anyone worse at their job then Todd Bowles? I’m not sure that is possible. And part of this is keeping that defensive coordinator who is clearly unprepared for the tasks at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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