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1 minute ago, EM31 said:

Are you kidding me?

good/great WR tandem (Keyshawn, Chrebet)

good/great linebackers (Jones, Lewis, Clifton)

strong front end Corners (Mickens and Glenn)

decent DL pass rush in Hugh Douglas and Marvin Washington....

Just look at the (cleaned up) roster I posted and tell me that was a 1-15 team.

and the #1 overall pick

I mean bro what

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He did get us back to respectability (but no further).  He was very good at identifying "can't miss" places to land and 1997 with the Jets was definitely a "can't miss" situation IMO.  I am just not down with the idea that he walked on water.  Any competent coach would have given us 6 or 7 wins with that talent in my opinion and I think he knew that before coming here.

 

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1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

What player would you debate is the best Jet Free agent signing of all time? My quick guess on this without research would be:

1. Kevin Mawae

2. Vinny Testaverde

3. Thomas Jones

4. Curtis Martin (devalued based on what we gave up).

Please tell me I am wrong

IMO Woody was a better FAQ pickup than Jones even though he didn't play here for very long (yes TJ was acquired via trade). In terms of impact upon arrival the difference was night & day. 

Jones was garbage in 2007. Then in 2008 with a new LG and RT, even with the LG playing far lower than his annual 1st team AP level, Jones puts up 1300/13 and then 1400/14 on the ground. Funny thing though: in the playoffs we were decidedly better with his backup. When we had to go back to Jones the rushing attack disappeared.

Jones rarely impressed me much on the field, though he was allegedly a good veteran to have in the locker room. Not much of a receiver, not much speed, not much in terms of breaking tackles. A one cut runner that was reduced to nothing if a hole wasn't there. When he had to create his own holes he was typically useless. 

Your first 2 are spot on. 

Jumbo Elliot was a key FA signing also. It could be argued we don't get as far as we did without him. Then again, if we hadn't signed Jumbo, would Tuna have taken Orlando Pace when he had the chance (or even Walter Jones after his first trade down)? 

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4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

He did get us back to respectability (but no further).  He was very good at identifying "can't miss" places to land and 1997 with the Jets was definitely a "can't miss" situation IMO.  I am just not down with the idea that he walked on water.  Any competent coach would have given us 6 or 7 wins with that talent in my opinion and I think he knew that before coming here.

 

I agree but criticising Parcells falls on very deaf ears here. He was a good head coach, but I firmly believe that he has in a way cursed this franchise because our dingbat owner has tried to find the next Pacells, hiring defensive head coach after defensive head coach, not realizing that Parcells was a balanced head coach, that is one of the best coaches ever in building coaching staffs and assistants.  I mean look at the coaching staff we had here, that we did not actually win anything with. It is ridiculously strong.

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Are you kidding me?
good/great WR tandem (Keyshawn, Chrebet)
good/great linebackers (Jones, Lewis, Clifton)
strong front end Corners (Mickens and Glenn)
decent DL pass rush in Hugh Douglas and Marvin Washington....
Just look at the (cleaned up) roster I posted and tell me that was a 1-15 team.
and the #1 overall pick
and....
a 1-15 record which served to lower expectations everywhere.  What part of that is not a good/great situation in which to land?


I don’t recall, had undrafted free agent Chrebet done anything yet?

Also, Glenn Foley was his QB



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9 hours ago, ljr said:

 


I don’t recall, had undrafted free agent Chrebet done anything yet?

Also, Glenn Foley was his QB



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Neil O'Donnell was the QB I think the year before Parcells and Wayne Chrebet caught 66 passes in 1995, his Rookie year and another 84 passes in 1996 BEFORE Parcells got here in 1997.  Foley Started 3 games as QB in 96

Edited to add.  I don't think Foley was even drafted as a QB

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Getting TJ was still a really underrated move though. I thought he was great when it mattered. 
The sucked. I don't get the love he gets from Jets fans. That year shonne Greene looked unstoppable behind our oline while the two yards was doing nothing.

He was an average back behind a good line

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20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I don’t have the exact numbers handy, but I once charted the records of teams Parcells took over before he shows up and after he leaves it. The aggregate was, in the three years prior to his arrival, those teams won at  at 35% clip. The three years post-Parcells, they won at a 65% clip.

Parcells was one of the greatest HCs of all time.  he could turn anyone around.

20 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The New York Jets job, after Rich Kotite, was a “good situation”? 

Talent wise it was but we needed the ultimate culture change and he brought that.  I'm not sure anyone besides him could have done the same.

20 hours ago, EM31 said:

He did get us back to respectability (but no further).  He was very good at identifying "can't miss" places to land and 1997 with the Jets was definitely a "can't miss" situation IMO.  I am just not down with the idea that he walked on water.  Any competent coach would have given us 6 or 7 wins with that talent in my opinion and I think he knew that before coming here.

 

The Jets were a good place t land talent wise but NE was not when he went there and Dallas was not when he went there.  He also tried to go to Atlanta after the 1986 season which wasn't a good job and TB before he went to NE which also wasn't a good job. 

Also, we were more than just awful on the field.  we needed a cleansing from top to bottom and he gave us that.  He hurt us long term w/ his awful drafting and costing us Belichick and either Peyton or Brady but he turned the franchise around and we were very good for a long time.

20 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

IMO Woody was a better FAQ pickup than Jones even though he didn't play here for very long (yes TJ was acquired via trade). In terms of impact upon arrival the difference was night & day. 

Jones was garbage in 2007. Then in 2008 with a new LG and RT, even with the LG playing far lower than his annual 1st team AP level, Jones puts up 1300/13 and then 1400/14 on the ground. Funny thing though: in the playoffs we were decidedly better with his backup. When we had to go back to Jones the rushing attack disappeared.

Jones rarely impressed me much on the field, though he was allegedly a good veteran to have in the locker room. Not much of a receiver, not much speed, not much in terms of breaking tackles. A one cut runner that was reduced to nothing if a hole wasn't there. When he had to create his own holes he was typically useless. 

Your first 2 are spot on. 

Jumbo Elliot was a key FA signing also. It could be argued we don't get as far as we did without him. Then again, if we hadn't signed Jumbo, would Tuna have taken Orlando Pace when he had the chance (or even Walter Jones after his first trade down)? 

Woody and Faneca were huge signing, Faneca was not the usual great player he was in Pitt but he was still good and those 2 helped Brick and Mangold become big time OL.

 

To be fair to Jones he was hurt late in 2009 so he couldn't move.  Once Greene left the AFC Championship Game on the first possession of the 2nd half the game was over.  Greene was a boom or bust guy but he gave us the threat of a run game, once he went out that threat was gone and we had a rookie QB in a loud dome against 2 premiere pass rushers.

20 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I agree but criticising Parcells falls on very deaf ears here. He was a good head coach, but I firmly believe that he has in a way cursed this franchise because our dingbat owner has tried to find the next Pacells, hiring defensive head coach after defensive head coach, not realizing that Parcells was a balanced head coach, that is one of the best coaches ever in building coaching staffs and assistants.  I mean look at the coaching staff we had here, that we did not actually win anything with. It is ridiculously strong.

I think the O or D HC thing is very overrated, we had success w/ Herm, Mangini, Rex- all D coaches.  Our last O HC was Kotite.  no matter what side of the ball they specialize in they have to bring in the right people to run the other side of the ball.

 

Parcells was one of the greatest coaches of all time.  Outside of Lombardi, Halas, Walsh I have him right there among the best of all time.  His problems were as a GM type.  That killed us w/ his horrendous drafts from 1997-1999 but he did well in FA especially scrap heap guys like Cox and Vinny.

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